NBA Trade Thread #12

[Dan Z]

If you go back, you'll see I added the equivalent value part before you responded. What exactly is a first round pick level of value? I think that's the whole question. We have a 17.5 mill trade exception that expires in July. AK typically keeps his cards close to his chest, we're all just guessing. He's spending money this summer with all these expirings, imo.

Value is highly important to me. There is no absolute value to a first round pick, the team, the year of the pick, the protections, PLUS how much that team values picks all weigh into it. In every deal, I'm trying to get the most that I can get. Worked years selling real estate and doing appraisals and let me tell, there's a huge difference between sale price and appraised value in a lot of situations. What you appraise as Vucevics value only plays part of what his final sale price will be.

GS and the Lakers are the easy answers, but like I said, it could be the Bucks if they lose Lopez or some team we're not even thinking about. If I'm Vucevic's agent, no way we took less than $20 mill/yr on his last contract, f**k what Bulls fans think. If I can't find a team in the league to get me $20 mill for my guy putting up 19/10, I'm not good at my job. People here are really jaded with his defense, which is exaggerated, no center has rated high defensively in Donovan's defense. I'd be damned if I couldn't convince a team to give me a first for Vucevic shooting 40% from three.

I'm AK, there's no way I don't find that first or value I feel is equivalent for Vucevic. He'd be here till the deadline at least before I took less.

As Dez points out they tried to get a first, but that didn't happen.

Vucevic is a career .348 three point shooter. Why would a team think that he'll continue to shoot .400 from three? He's done that twice in his 14 year career and in both situations he regressed the next season.

A first round pick's value depends on the team trading it (are they good? bad?), the protections on it, and the year it's conveys. Maybe a team gives up a late first if it means the Bulls take on salary, but like I said it doesn't sound like AK is willing to do that.

Why would a team like Miwaukee give up it's 2031 first round pick for Vucevic? It's one of the few assets that they have and they give it up for a soon to be 35 year old center who isn't good at defense...? Giannis, Vucevic, and Kuzma will go how far next year (Lillard is hurt)? Then in a year Vucevic is up for a contract and will be 36. That seems like a bad plan to me.

Honestly, do you think even half the NBA has a solid plan on what they're doing right now? The Bucks were just dealing with Giannis trade rumors, for instance. He says he wants to stay, they need to upgrade fast with little resources. How would I or you or anybody know how much they value a 2031 draft picks? Personally, it's almost valueless as an asset. Again, I'm not even going to try to project teams needs before the draft and before free agency starts. Orlando upgraded their starting SG today and Grizzlies severely downgraded. Their plans may have changed. Don't care who he goes to, we could guess, but we'd probably be wrong. We should still try to get as much as we can.

I'll say it again. Pull any center ranking for the 2024-2025 season and see where Vucevic sits. All the teams below that number he's effectively an upgrade, according to whichever ranking you'll pull. Some of those teams above him will lose their starting center. If you can find a ranking where he's lower than 30 (30 teams in the league), ANY ranking outside Bulls fan posts, I'll concede nobody would want him as an upgrade.

Then we can argue why no team in the NBA would give up a first for $20 mill expiring, that's additional benefit outside the player himself.

It's one of the few assets that the Bucks have. Why would they give it up for an older player who has spent the majority of his career on losing teams?

I agree with you that he has value as an expiring contract, but in that case it most likely means the Bulls would have to take on additional salary and it sounds like AK isn't willing to do that.

If the Bulls couldn't get a first for him during the last trade deadline then why will they get one now?

[Dan Z]

If you go back, you'll see I added the equivalent value part before you responded. What exactly is a first round pick level of value? I think that's the whole question. We have a 17.5 mill trade exception that expires in July. AK typically keeps his cards close to his chest, we're all just guessing. He's spending money this summer with all these expirings, imo.

Value is highly important to me. There is no absolute value to a first round pick, the team, the year of the pick, the protections, PLUS how much that team values picks all weigh into it. In every deal, I'm trying to get the most that I can get. Worked years selling real estate and doing appraisals and let me tell, there's a huge difference between sale price and appraised value in a lot of situations. What you appraise as Vucevics value only plays part of what his final sale price will be.

GS and the Lakers are the easy answers, but like I said, it could be the Bucks if they lose Lopez or some team we're not even thinking about. If I'm Vucevic's agent, no way we took less than $20 mill/yr on his last contract, f**k what Bulls fans think. If I can't find a team in the league to get me $20 mill for my guy putting up 19/10, I'm not good at my job. People here are really jaded with his defense, which is exaggerated, no center has rated high defensively in Donovan's defense. I'd be damned if I couldn't convince a team to give me a first for Vucevic shooting 40% from three.

I'm AK, there's no way I don't find that first or value I feel is equivalent for Vucevic. He'd be here till the deadline at least before I took less.

As Dez points out they tried to get a first, but that didn't happen.

Vucevic is a career .348 three point shooter. Why would a team think that he'll continue to shoot .400 from three? He's done that twice in his 14 year career and in both situations he regressed the next season.

A first round pick's value depends on the team trading it (are they good? bad?), the protections on it, and the year it's conveys. Maybe a team gives up a late first if it means the Bulls take on salary, but like I said it doesn't sound like AK is willing to do that.

Why would a team like Miwaukee give up it's 2031 first round pick for Vucevic? It's one of the few assets that they have and they give it up for a soon to be 35 year old center who isn't good at defense...? Giannis, Vucevic, and Kuzma will go how far next year (Lillard is hurt)? Then in a year Vucevic is up for a contract and will be 36. That seems like a bad plan to me.

Honestly, do you think even half the NBA has a solid plan on what they're doing right now? The Bucks were just dealing with Giannis trade rumors, for instance. He says he wants to stay, they need to upgrade fast with little resources. How would I or you or anybody know how much they value a 2031 draft picks? Personally, it's almost valueless as an asset. Again, I'm not even going to try to project teams needs before the draft and before free agency starts. Orlando upgraded their starting SG today and Grizzlies severely downgraded. Their plans may have changed. Don't care who he goes to, we could guess, but we'd probably be wrong. We should still try to get as much as we can.

I'll say it again. Pull any center ranking for the 2024-2025 season and see where Vucevic sits. All the teams below that number he's effectively an upgrade, according to whichever ranking you'll pull. Some of those teams above him will lose their starting center. If you can find a ranking where he's lower than 30 (30 teams in the league), ANY ranking outside Bulls fan posts, I'll concede nobody would want him as an upgrade.

Here's a few:

https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-ranking-top-30-centers-2024-25-season/

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/ranking-nba-centers-2025

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/ranking-best-nba-centers-2024-25-starters/ca6459cc663d985674979a25

https://fadeawayworld.net/nba/10-best-nba-centers-based-on-what-we-have-seen-so-far

Then we can argue why no team in the NBA would give up a first for $20 mill expiring, that's additional benefit outside the player himself.

I see that you shared links that rank centers in the NBA.

The Hoopshype one is a year old.

The Statmuse one has Stephen Adams listed #1 and even has DeAndre Jordan as #7. Am I suppose to take that seriously?

The Sporting News one has him ranked #25. The teams listed 26-30 are: Utah, Pistons, Grizzlies and Pelicans. Do they need Vuc? And are they willing to give up a first to get him? I doubt it.

Fadaway World has him ranked as the #6 center. You really think he's better than Zubac, Myles Turner, Jarrett Allen, KAT, Mitchell Robinson, Jalen Duran...I could go on...?

Even if you do think he's better, many of those teams have no need for him. For example, it makes no sense for Detroit to think that Vucevic is an upgrade to Duren (who is 21 years old) and that it would be worth giving up a first round pick to do so.

[Infinity2152]

As Dez points out they tried to get a first, but that didn't happen.

Vucevic is a career .348 three point shooter. Why would a team think that he'll continue to shoot .400 from three? He's done that twice in his 14 year career and in both situations he regressed the next season.

A first round pick's value depends on the team trading it (are they good? bad?), the protections on it, and the year it's conveys. Maybe a team gives up a late first if it means the Bulls take on salary, but like I said it doesn't sound like AK is willing to do that.

Why would a team like Miwaukee give up it's 2031 first round pick for Vucevic? It's one of the few assets that they have and they give it up for a soon to be 35 year old center who isn't good at defense...? Giannis, Vucevic, and Kuzma will go how far next year (Lillard is hurt)? Then in a year Vucevic is up for a contract and will be 36. That seems like a bad plan to me.

Honestly, do you think even half the NBA has a solid plan on what they're doing right now? The Bucks were just dealing with Giannis trade rumors, for instance. He says he wants to stay, they need to upgrade fast with little resources. How would I or you or anybody know how much they value a 2031 draft picks? Personally, it's almost valueless as an asset. Again, I'm not even going to try to project teams needs before the draft and before free agency starts. Orlando upgraded their starting SG today and Grizzlies severely downgraded. Their plans may have changed. Don't care who he goes to, we could guess, but we'd probably be wrong. We should still try to get as much as we can.

I'll say it again. Pull any center ranking for the 2024-2025 season and see where Vucevic sits. All the teams below that number he's effectively an upgrade, according to whichever ranking you'll pull. Some of those teams above him will lose their starting center. If you can find a ranking where he's lower than 30 (30 teams in the league), ANY ranking outside Bulls fan posts, I'll concede nobody would want him as an upgrade.

Here's a few:

https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-ranking-top-30-centers-2024-25-season/

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/ranking-nba-centers-2025

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/ranking-best-nba-centers-2024-25-starters/ca6459cc663d985674979a25

https://fadeawayworld.net/nba/10-best-nba-centers-based-on-what-we-have-seen-so-far

Then we can argue why no team in the NBA would give up a first for $20 mill expiring, that's additional benefit outside the player himself.

I see that you shared links that rank centers in the NBA.

The Hoopshype one is a year old.

The Statmuse one has Stephen Adams listed #1 and even has DeAndre Jordan as #7. Am I suppose to take that seriously?

The Sporting News one has him ranked #25. The teams listed 26-30 are: Utah, Pistons, Grizzlies and Pelicans. Do they need Vuc? And are they willing to give up a first to get him? I doubt it.

Fadaway World has him ranked as the #6 center. You really think he's better than Zubac, Myles Turner, Jarrett Allen, KAT, Mitchell Robinson, Jalen Duran...I could go on...?

Even if you do think he's better, many of those teams have no need for him. For example, it makes no sense for Detroit to think that Vucevic is an upgrade to Duren (who is 21 years old) and that it would be worth giving up a first round pick to do so.

I asked you to post some. I posted the first ones that came up. Can only post what's available. There are very few center rankings for next year, so yes, some of them are going to be older. He had a great season, he would arguably rank higher in those. He'll probably be 15 or higher in most rankings after last season. Again, if you find any that rank Vucevic as the worst starting center, I'll concede that he can't get a first.

As for need, there are 30 teams in the league. Plenty could use an upgrade at center, and Vucevic would be an upgrade on many teams. I'm not the one trying to find a specific landing spot when I already said no point until after the draft, free agency, and team's plans become more clear. I could go team by team and say which teams Vucevic would be an upgrade on, but not going to argue that.

Find something to support the fact that Vucevic is not worth a first to any team. The fact that he wasn't able to get a first at the deadline MEANS NOTHING. Don't know why people keep bringing it up. Way more trades happen in the summer than at the deadline. We don't even know how many teams he even approached. Teams have changed GM's. Players are expiring, more teams will need centers (like the Bucks). Vucevic is expiring, he had an extra $10 mill from last season at the deadline. Warriors were interested and made another deal at the deadline. Every team will have an additional first after the draft. It is not the same situation, he's even coming off a better season.

So this summer, more teams will need centers, Vucevic has less time and money on his contract, every team has more draft picks, most teams have more cap flexibility and roster spots vs at the deadline. Plus you're not doing a huge trade midseason with no training camp or practices. Absolutely no effect on a trade return?

And isn't Duren possibly on the block because they don't want to pay him? They believe in him so much they're one of the teams rumored to be in the market for Myles Turner?

[Dan Z]

Honestly, do you think even half the NBA has a solid plan on what they're doing right now? The Bucks were just dealing with Giannis trade rumors, for instance. He says he wants to stay, they need to upgrade fast with little resources. How would I or you or anybody know how much they value a 2031 draft picks? Personally, it's almost valueless as an asset. Again, I'm not even going to try to project teams needs before the draft and before free agency starts. Orlando upgraded their starting SG today and Grizzlies severely downgraded. Their plans may have changed. Don't care who he goes to, we could guess, but we'd probably be wrong. We should still try to get as much as we can.

I'll say it again. Pull any center ranking for the 2024-2025 season and see where Vucevic sits. All the teams below that number he's effectively an upgrade, according to whichever ranking you'll pull. Some of those teams above him will lose their starting center. If you can find a ranking where he's lower than 30 (30 teams in the league), ANY ranking outside Bulls fan posts, I'll concede nobody would want him as an upgrade.

Here's a few:

https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-ranking-top-30-centers-2024-25-season/

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/ranking-nba-centers-2025

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/ranking-best-nba-centers-2024-25-starters/ca6459cc663d985674979a25

https://fadeawayworld.net/nba/10-best-nba-centers-based-on-what-we-have-seen-so-far

Then we can argue why no team in the NBA would give up a first for $20 mill expiring, that's additional benefit outside the player himself.

I see that you shared links that rank centers in the NBA.

The Hoopshype one is a year old.

The Statmuse one has Stephen Adams listed #1 and even has DeAndre Jordan as #7. Am I suppose to take that seriously?

The Sporting News one has him ranked #25. The teams listed 26-30 are: Utah, Pistons, Grizzlies and Pelicans. Do they need Vuc? And are they willing to give up a first to get him? I doubt it.

Fadaway World has him ranked as the #6 center. You really think he's better than Zubac, Myles Turner, Jarrett Allen, KAT, Mitchell Robinson, Jalen Duran...I could go on...?

Even if you do think he's better, many of those teams have no need for him. For example, it makes no sense for Detroit to think that Vucevic is an upgrade to Duren (who is 21 years old) and that it would be worth giving up a first round pick to do so.

I asked you to post some. I posted the first ones that came up. Can only post what's available. There are very few center rankings for next year, so yes, some of them are going to be older. He had a great season, he would arguably rank higher in those. He'll probably be 15 or higher in most rankings after last season. Again, if you find any that rank Vucevic as the worst starting center, I'll concede that he can't get a first.

As for need, there are 30 teams in the league. Plenty could use an upgrade at center, and Vucevic would be an upgrade on many teams. I'm not the one trying to find a specific landing spot when I already said no point until after the draft, free agency, and team's plans become more clear. I could go team by team and say which teams Vucevic would be an upgrade on, but not going to argue that.

Find something to support the fact that Vucevic is not worth a first to any team. The fact that he wasn't able to get a first at the deadline MEANS NOTHING. Don't know why people keep bringing it up. Way more trades happen in the summer than at the deadline. We don't even know how many teams he even approached. Teams have changed GM's. Players are expiring, more teams will need centers (like the Bucks). Vucevic is expiring, he had an extra $10 mill from last season at the deadline. Warriors were interested and made another deal at the deadline. Every team will have an additional first after the draft. It is not the same situation, he's even coming off a better season.

So this summer, more teams will need centers, Vucevic has less time and money on his contract, every team has more draft picks, most teams have more cap flexibility and roster spots vs at the deadline. Plus you're not doing a huge trade midseason with no training camp or practices. Absolutely no effect on a trade return?

If you think Vucevic ranks that high (the Fadaway link you sent me has him listed at #6) then why isn't the team doing better with him? Why trade him?

People bring up that they didn't get a first for him last deadline because that's what they tried to do. Yes, situations have changed for teams, but it's not a good sign if they previously tried and we're unsuccessful at getting a first.

Even if you think Vucevic is ranked 15 that doesn't mean there are 15 teams willing to give up a first round pick for him. Some of those teams are rebuilding and have younger players at the center position. Other teams have financial commitments elsewhere or they're just not interested in giving up a first for a 35 year old player. Or they have no interest in a center that doesn't play defense.

Like I said before, I could see Vucevic having value for a first if the Bulls are willing to take on salary, but it doesn't seem like they're willing to do so.

I bet if you made a poll the majority would say Vucevic won't bring back a first round pick in a trade.

[Infinity2152]

I see that you shared links that rank centers in the NBA.

The Hoopshype one is a year old.

The Statmuse one has Stephen Adams listed #1 and even has DeAndre Jordan as #7. Am I suppose to take that seriously?

The Sporting News one has him ranked #25. The teams listed 26-30 are: Utah, Pistons, Grizzlies and Pelicans. Do they need Vuc? And are they willing to give up a first to get him? I doubt it.

Fadaway World has him ranked as the #6 center. You really think he's better than Zubac, Myles Turner, Jarrett Allen, KAT, Mitchell Robinson, Jalen Duran...I could go on...?

Even if you do think he's better, many of those teams have no need for him. For example, it makes no sense for Detroit to think that Vucevic is an upgrade to Duren (who is 21 years old) and that it would be worth giving up a first round pick to do so.

I asked you to post some. I posted the first ones that came up. Can only post what's available. There are very few center rankings for next year, so yes, some of them are going to be older. He had a great season, he would arguably rank higher in those. He'll probably be 15 or higher in most rankings after last season. Again, if you find any that rank Vucevic as the worst starting center, I'll concede that he can't get a first.

As for need, there are 30 teams in the league. Plenty could use an upgrade at center, and Vucevic would be an upgrade on many teams. I'm not the one trying to find a specific landing spot when I already said no point until after the draft, free agency, and team's plans become more clear. I could go team by team and say which teams Vucevic would be an upgrade on, but not going to argue that.

Find something to support the fact that Vucevic is not worth a first to any team. The fact that he wasn't able to get a first at the deadline MEANS NOTHING. Don't know why people keep bringing it up. Way more trades happen in the summer than at the deadline. We don't even know how many teams he even approached. Teams have changed GM's. Players are expiring, more teams will need centers (like the Bucks). Vucevic is expiring, he had an extra $10 mill from last season at the deadline. Warriors were interested and made another deal at the deadline. Every team will have an additional first after the draft. It is not the same situation, he's even coming off a better season.

So this summer, more teams will need centers, Vucevic has less time and money on his contract, every team has more draft picks, most teams have more cap flexibility and roster spots vs at the deadline. Plus you're not doing a huge trade midseason with no training camp or practices. Absolutely no effect on a trade return?

If you think Vucevic ranks that high (the Fadaway link you sent me has him listed at #6) then why isn't the team doing better with him? Why trade him?

People bring up that they didn't get a first for him last deadline because that's what they tried to do. Yes, situations have changed for teams, but it's not a good sign if they previously tried and we're unsuccessful at getting a first.

Even if you think Vucevic is ranked 15 that doesn't mean there are 15 teams willing to give up a first round pick for him. Some of those teams are rebuilding and have younger players at the center position. Other teams have financial commitments elsewhere or they're just not interested in giving up a first for a 35 year old player. Or they have no interest in a center that doesn't play defense.

Like I said before, I could see Vucevic having value for a first if the Bulls are willing to take on salary, but it doesn't seem like they're willing to do so.

I bet if you made a poll the majority would say Vucevic won't bring back a first round pick in a trade.

Hey, everybody's viewpoint is different. Personally, I would rate Vucevic probably somewhere between the 10th and 15th best center next year. Top 5-10 in offense, shooting and rebounding, bottom 10 in defense. But not the 15th most valuable. Of course a guy like Duren's value is higher because of age and potential. I'd also expect more than one future first in a Duren trade. Like I said, our opinions of the value of a "first round pick" seems to be far different. To me, an undefined first round pick that could be really late has little value. A lot of GM's probably agree. How much is a pick 5 years from now worth to AK? People make all these excuses for the Bridges trade and Bane trade, so many picks, but they have reasons. So what? Be honest, before the trade somebody proposed Knicks send 5 firsts for Bridges or Magic 4 firsts for Bane, you would have said "Hell no, not going to happen!" right? Most GM's would. It's just as impossible as getting a first for Vucevic. Until we find the GM that does.

I have no idea of the Bulls plans, and I bet a lot of it is fluid. Depending on the market and what becomes available. So whether or not they would take on extra money probably depends on how much, how long and the player. Like if they decide to go for Kuminga, that's long term money. I think the Bulls are likely to make at least one move before the deadline for big long-term money, unless they plan to re-sign Coby AND add a high cost player in free agency. Hope the plan is not to let 7 contracts expire and get nothing back.

I believe it was rumored we were offered expirings and 2 seconds for Vucevic at the deadline. An undefined, probably protected future first doesn't hold much more value than two seconds, and in my opinion, Vucevic should be slightly more valuable than he was at the deadline. Plus the market is better.

[Dan Z]

I asked you to post some. I posted the first ones that came up. Can only post what's available. There are very few center rankings for next year, so yes, some of them are going to be older. He had a great season, he would arguably rank higher in those. He'll probably be 15 or higher in most rankings after last season. Again, if you find any that rank Vucevic as the worst starting center, I'll concede that he can't get a first.

As for need, there are 30 teams in the league. Plenty could use an upgrade at center, and Vucevic would be an upgrade on many teams. I'm not the one trying to find a specific landing spot when I already said no point until after the draft, free agency, and team's plans become more clear. I could go team by team and say which teams Vucevic would be an upgrade on, but not going to argue that.

Find something to support the fact that Vucevic is not worth a first to any team. The fact that he wasn't able to get a first at the deadline MEANS NOTHING. Don't know why people keep bringing it up. Way more trades happen in the summer than at the deadline. We don't even know how many teams he even approached. Teams have changed GM's. Players are expiring, more teams will need centers (like the Bucks). Vucevic is expiring, he had an extra $10 mill from last season at the deadline. Warriors were interested and made another deal at the deadline. Every team will have an additional first after the draft. It is not the same situation, he's even coming off a better season.

So this summer, more teams will need centers, Vucevic has less time and money on his contract, every team has more draft picks, most teams have more cap flexibility and roster spots vs at the deadline. Plus you're not doing a huge trade midseason with no training camp or practices. Absolutely no effect on a trade return?

If you think Vucevic ranks that high (the Fadaway link you sent me has him listed at #6) then why isn't the team doing better with him? Why trade him?

People bring up that they didn't get a first for him last deadline because that's what they tried to do. Yes, situations have changed for teams, but it's not a good sign if they previously tried and we're unsuccessful at getting a first.

Even if you think Vucevic is ranked 15 that doesn't mean there are 15 teams willing to give up a first round pick for him. Some of those teams are rebuilding and have younger players at the center position. Other teams have financial commitments elsewhere or they're just not interested in giving up a first for a 35 year old player. Or they have no interest in a center that doesn't play defense.

Like I said before, I could see Vucevic having value for a first if the Bulls are willing to take on salary, but it doesn't seem like they're willing to do so.

I bet if you made a poll the majority would say Vucevic won't bring back a first round pick in a trade.

Hey, everybody's viewpoint is different. Personally, I would rate Vucevic probably somewhere between the 10th and 15th best center next year. Top 5-10 in offense, shooting and rebounding, bottom 10 in defense. But not the 15th most valuable. Of course a guy like Duren's value is higher because of age and potential. I'd also expect more than one future first in a Duren trade. Like I said, our opinions of the value of a "first round pick" seems to be far different. To me, an undefined first round pick that could be really late has little value. A lot of GM's probably agree. How much is a pick 5 years from now worth to AK?

I have no idea of the Bulls plans, and I bet a lot of it is fluid. Depending on the market and what becomes available. So whether or not they would take on extra money probably depends on how much, how long and the player. Like if they decide to go for Kuminga, that's long term money. I think the Bulls are likely to make at least one move before the deadline for big long-term money, unless they plan to re-sign Coby AND add a high cost player in free agency.

I believe it was rumored we were offered expirings and 2 seconds for Vucevic at the deadline. An undefined, probably protected future first doesn't hold much more value than two seconds, and in my opinion, Vucevic should be slightly more valuable than he was at the deadline. Plus the market is better.

Any first round pick, even late ones matter to teams that are rebuilding. Look at Bane...he was drafted #30. In 2024 Yves Missi was drafted #21 and TSJ at 27. 2023 Cam Whitemore went 20 and Ben Sheppard #27.

Then for the teams that aren't rebuilding they want first round picks because that's NBA currency. Again...Bane....he went for 4 first round picks. Will one of those picks be late? Maybe...it remains to be seen.

Two 2nd round picks aren't the same (I also have no idea where those 2nds would fall. At a point in the 2nd round draft players typically don't make it in the NBA).

My guess is that AK doesn't care much about picks, especially one's that don't convey for years. This is a guy who decided not to take on Harrison Barnes for the Kings pick swap.

We can agree to disagree on this. I don't think Vuc will get a first no do I think he's worth one.

[Infinity2152]

If you think Vucevic ranks that high (the Fadaway link you sent me has him listed at #6) then why isn't the team doing better with him? Why trade him?

People bring up that they didn't get a first for him last deadline because that's what they tried to do. Yes, situations have changed for teams, but it's not a good sign if they previously tried and we're unsuccessful at getting a first.

Even if you think Vucevic is ranked 15 that doesn't mean there are 15 teams willing to give up a first round pick for him. Some of those teams are rebuilding and have younger players at the center position. Other teams have financial commitments elsewhere or they're just not interested in giving up a first for a 35 year old player. Or they have no interest in a center that doesn't play defense.

Like I said before, I could see Vucevic having value for a first if the Bulls are willing to take on salary, but it doesn't seem like they're willing to do so.

I bet if you made a poll the majority would say Vucevic won't bring back a first round pick in a trade.

Hey, everybody's viewpoint is different. Personally, I would rate Vucevic probably somewhere between the 10th and 15th best center next year. Top 5-10 in offense, shooting and rebounding, bottom 10 in defense. But not the 15th most valuable. Of course a guy like Duren's value is higher because of age and potential. I'd also expect more than one future first in a Duren trade. Like I said, our opinions of the value of a "first round pick" seems to be far different. To me, an undefined first round pick that could be really late has little value. A lot of GM's probably agree. How much is a pick 5 years from now worth to AK?

I have no idea of the Bulls plans, and I bet a lot of it is fluid. Depending on the market and what becomes available. So whether or not they would take on extra money probably depends on how much, how long and the player. Like if they decide to go for Kuminga, that's long term money. I think the Bulls are likely to make at least one move before the deadline for big long-term money, unless they plan to re-sign Coby AND add a high cost player in free agency.

I believe it was rumored we were offered expirings and 2 seconds for Vucevic at the deadline. An undefined, probably protected future first doesn't hold much more value than two seconds, and in my opinion, Vucevic should be slightly more valuable than he was at the deadline. Plus the market is better.

Any first round pick, even late ones matter to teams that are rebuilding. Look at Bane...he was drafted #30. In 2024 Yves Missi was drafted #21 and TSJ at 27. 2023 Cam Whitemore went 20 and Ben Sheppard #27.

Then for the teams that aren't rebuilding they want first round picks because that's NBA currency. Again...Bane....he went for 4 first round picks. Will one of those picks be late? Maybe...it remains to be seen.

Two 2nd round picks aren't the same (I also have no idea where those 2nds would fall. At a point in the 2nd round draft players typically don't make it in the NBA).

My guess is that AK doesn't care much about picks, especially one's that don't convey for years. This is a guy who decided not to take on Harrison Barnes for the Kings pick swap.

We can agree to disagree on this. I don't think Vuc will get a first no do I think he's worth one.

It's highly unlikely Vucevic would be going to a team that's rebuilding. He's a win now vet player. We see time and again teams throw away first round picks and young players for win now players, even role players. Would argue the Thunder gave us Giddey for Caruso, and Giddey's worth at least a first or two. That would be an overpay for most teams. The inverse of that rule is win now teams care far less about far away draft picks.

You're right, those two seconds aren't the same as that random first. The 32nd and 34th pick of the 2025 draft would inarguably be worth more than the 30th pick of the 2031 draft. If we don't know the where and when of the firsts, how are we going to argue the where and when of the seconds? That 1st could never convey, like this Portland pick.The value of draft picks goes down each year it's projected out, the 29th pick of the 2031 draft is worth less than the 29th pick of the 2026 draft.

You're right, let's agree to disagree. I do think he's worth a first, and I think we'll get one or a good young player (equivalent) or he expires a Bull. Let's hope I'm right, your way gets us less.

[Dominator83]

If you think Vucevic ranks that high (the Fadaway link you sent me has him listed at #6) then why isn't the team doing better with him? Why trade him?

People bring up that they didn't get a first for him last deadline because that's what they tried to do. Yes, situations have changed for teams, but it's not a good sign if they previously tried and we're unsuccessful at getting a first.

Even if you think Vucevic is ranked 15 that doesn't mean there are 15 teams willing to give up a first round pick for him. Some of those teams are rebuilding and have younger players at the center position. Other teams have financial commitments elsewhere or they're just not interested in giving up a first for a 35 year old player. Or they have no interest in a center that doesn't play defense.

Like I said before, I could see Vucevic having value for a first if the Bulls are willing to take on salary, but it doesn't seem like they're willing to do so.

I bet if you made a poll the majority would say Vucevic won't bring back a first round pick in a trade.

Hey, everybody's viewpoint is different. Personally, I would rate Vucevic probably somewhere between the 10th and 15th best center next year. Top 5-10 in offense, shooting and rebounding, bottom 10 in defense. But not the 15th most valuable. Of course a guy like Duren's value is higher because of age and potential. I'd also expect more than one future first in a Duren trade. Like I said, our opinions of the value of a "first round pick" seems to be far different. To me, an undefined first round pick that could be really late has little value. A lot of GM's probably agree. How much is a pick 5 years from now worth to AK?

I have no idea of the Bulls plans, and I bet a lot of it is fluid. Depending on the market and what becomes available. So whether or not they would take on extra money probably depends on how much, how long and the player. Like if they decide to go for Kuminga, that's long term money. I think the Bulls are likely to make at least one move before the deadline for big long-term money, unless they plan to re-sign Coby AND add a high cost player in free agency.

I believe it was rumored we were offered expirings and 2 seconds for Vucevic at the deadline. An undefined, probably protected future first doesn't hold much more value than two seconds, and in my opinion, Vucevic should be slightly more valuable than he was at the deadline. Plus the market is better.

Any first round pick, even late ones matter to teams that are rebuilding. Look at Bane...he was drafted #30. In 2024 Yves Missi was drafted #21 and TSJ at 27. 2023 Cam Whitemore went 20 and Ben Sheppard #27.

Then for the teams that aren't rebuilding they want first round picks because that's NBA currency. Again...Bane....he went for 4 first round picks. Will one of those picks be late? Maybe...it remains to be seen.

Two 2nd round picks aren't the same (I also have no idea where those 2nds would fall. At a point in the 2nd round draft players typically don't make it in the NBA).

My guess is that AK doesn't care much about picks, especially one's that don't convey for years. This is a guy who decided not to take on Harrison Barnes for the Kings pick swap.

We can agree to disagree on this. I don't think Vuc will get a first no do I think he's worth one.

Yea i don't see where Vuc fetches us a 1st either, unless maybe we're taking on bad money that goes further out.

I don't know our cap situation of if we can absorb anything, but perhaps a Vuc for Porzingis swap is possible, with Boston having no window next season and allegedly looking to save some money

Edit: a straight up swap is legal atleast in the REALGM trade checker. Boston would save alot of money

[Dan Z]

Hey, everybody's viewpoint is different. Personally, I would rate Vucevic probably somewhere between the 10th and 15th best center next year. Top 5-10 in offense, shooting and rebounding, bottom 10 in defense. But not the 15th most valuable. Of course a guy like Duren's value is higher because of age and potential. I'd also expect more than one future first in a Duren trade. Like I said, our opinions of the value of a "first round pick" seems to be far different. To me, an undefined first round pick that could be really late has little value. A lot of GM's probably agree. How much is a pick 5 years from now worth to AK?

I have no idea of the Bulls plans, and I bet a lot of it is fluid. Depending on the market and what becomes available. So whether or not they would take on extra money probably depends on how much, how long and the player. Like if they decide to go for Kuminga, that's long term money. I think the Bulls are likely to make at least one move before the deadline for big long-term money, unless they plan to re-sign Coby AND add a high cost player in free agency.

I believe it was rumored we were offered expirings and 2 seconds for Vucevic at the deadline. An undefined, probably protected future first doesn't hold much more value than two seconds, and in my opinion, Vucevic should be slightly more valuable than he was at the deadline. Plus the market is better.

Any first round pick, even late ones matter to teams that are rebuilding. Look at Bane...he was drafted #30. In 2024 Yves Missi was drafted #21 and TSJ at 27. 2023 Cam Whitemore went 20 and Ben Sheppard #27.

Then for the teams that aren't rebuilding they want first round picks because that's NBA currency. Again...Bane....he went for 4 first round picks. Will one of those picks be late? Maybe...it remains to be seen.

Two 2nd round picks aren't the same (I also have no idea where those 2nds would fall. At a point in the 2nd round draft players typically don't make it in the NBA).

My guess is that AK doesn't care much about picks, especially one's that don't convey for years. This is a guy who decided not to take on Harrison Barnes for the Kings pick swap.

We can agree to disagree on this. I don't think Vuc will get a first no do I think he's worth one.

It's highly unlikely Vucevic would be going to a team that's rebuilding. He's a win now vet player. We see time and again teams throw away first round picks and young players for win now players, even role players. Would argue the Thunder gave us Giddey for Caruso, and Giddey's worth at least a first or two. That would be an overpay for most teams. The inverse of that rule is win now teams care far less about far away draft picks.

You're right, those two seconds are the same as that random first. The 32nd and 34th pick of the 2025 draft would inarguably be worth more than the 30th pick of the 2031 draft. If we don't know the where and when of the firsts, how are we going to argue the where and when of the seconds? The value of draft picks goes down each year it's projected out, the 29th pick of the 2031 draft is worth less than the 29th pick of the 2026 draft.

You're right, let's agree to disagree. I do think he's worth a first, and I think we'll get one or a good young player (equivalent) or he expires a Bull. Let's hope I'm right, your way gets us less.

When are teams "throwing away first round picks"? I don't mean a player like Giddey whose value (based on picks) is difficult to gauge. I mean picks and only picks.

I can't think of anything recent, but maybe I'm forgetting some trades.

One trade that came to mind is Jonas Valanciunas to the Kings. He went for two second rounds picks (which is what you said was offered for Vuc).

I hope you're right because I want the Bulls to get better, but I wouldn't be surprised if AK didn't even trade Vucevic.

[Infinity2152]

Hey, everybody's viewpoint is different. Personally, I would rate Vucevic probably somewhere between the 10th and 15th best center next year. Top 5-10 in offense, shooting and rebounding, bottom 10 in defense. But not the 15th most valuable. Of course a guy like Duren's value is higher because of age and potential. I'd also expect more than one future first in a Duren trade. Like I said, our opinions of the value of a "first round pick" seems to be far different. To me, an undefined first round pick that could be really late has little value. A lot of GM's probably agree. How much is a pick 5 years from now worth to AK?

I have no idea of the Bulls plans, and I bet a lot of it is fluid. Depending on the market and what becomes available. So whether or not they would take on extra money probably depends on how much, how long and the player. Like if they decide to go for Kuminga, that's long term money. I think the Bulls are likely to make at least one move before the deadline for big long-term money, unless they plan to re-sign Coby AND add a high cost player in free agency.

I believe it was rumored we were offered expirings and 2 seconds for Vucevic at the deadline. An undefined, probably protected future first doesn't hold much more value than two seconds, and in my opinion, Vucevic should be slightly more valuable than he was at the deadline. Plus the market is better.

Any first round pick, even late ones matter to teams that are rebuilding. Look at Bane...he was drafted #30. In 2024 Yves Missi was drafted #21 and TSJ at 27. 2023 Cam Whitemore went 20 and Ben Sheppard #27.

Then for the teams that aren't rebuilding they want first round picks because that's NBA currency. Again...Bane....he went for 4 first round picks. Will one of those picks be late? Maybe...it remains to be seen.

Two 2nd round picks aren't the same (I also have no idea where those 2nds would fall. At a point in the 2nd round draft players typically don't make it in the NBA).

My guess is that AK doesn't care much about picks, especially one's that don't convey for years. This is a guy who decided not to take on Harrison Barnes for the Kings pick swap.

We can agree to disagree on this. I don't think Vuc will get a first no do I think he's worth one.

Yea i don't see where Vuc fetches us a 1st either, unless maybe we're taking on bad money that goes further out.

I don't know our cap situation of if we can absorb anything, but perhaps a Vuc for Porzingis swap is possible, with Boston having no window next season and allegedly looking to save some money

We could absorb EVERYTHING, lol, if the other team wants expirings. Which a ton of teams will want. We have like $80-$90 mill in expiring contracts. Bulls plan to make a big move for a big money player before the deadline, Vucevic would probably be a huge part. 70/30 if Vuc is traded, it's not for bad money and picks, it's for a bigger contract player.

Think the Celtics would rather send Jrue than Porzingas, since Porzingas is already expiring. Jrue is bad money to the Celtics, he's going to cost them double at least in 2026. He'd be damn good for us, we could find the framework for a deal.

[dumbell78]

Yeah, that Orlando trade screams as an overpay and I get it, but we have to factor in a few things:

-Orlando is small market team that has an awful time attracting any FA to come join the Disney party.
-I'm too lazy to look it up but Orlando is probably one of the worst 3-pt shooting teams in the NBA, maybe the worst? Bane is a knock down >40% 3 pt shooter. They sure do brick a lot of open 3's.
-The KDP signing was AWFUL, owed 22 mil per over 2 years. You have to figure one pick is just to eat that contract.
-Bane is 26, he's an AS/fringe AS player. 20/5/5 guy. Always flirting with the 50/40/90 line, 60% TS, solid D.
-East is wide open.

I get the reasoning for Orlando. IMO the only picks that may hurt is the PHX 2026 and whatever the hell can happen in 2030.

[Jcool0]

Who knows

Read on Twitter

[Infinity2152]

Yeah, that Orlando trade screams as an overpay and I get it, but we have to factor in a few things:

-Orlando is small market team that has an awful time attracting any FA to come join the Disney party.
-I'm too lazy to look it up but Orlando is probably one of the worst 3-pt shooting teams in the NBA, maybe the worst? Bane is a knock down >40% 3 pt shooter. They sure do brick a lot of open 3's.
-The KDP signing was AWFUL, owed 22 mil per over 2 years. You have to figure one pick is just to eat that contract.
-Bane is 26, he's an AS/fringe AS player. 20/5/5 guy. Always flirting with the 50/40/90 line, 60% TS, solid D.
-East is wide open.

I get the reasoning for Orlando. IMO the only picks that may hurt is the PHX 2026 and whatever the hell can happen in 2030.

Agree. Situation matters, and Bane's going to elevate that team. And getting off that KCP contract is huge. Wanted Bane for us, but not at 4 picks. We don't have a Banchero/Suggs/Wagner level combo yet.

[GuardianEnzo]

I love Bane but that does look like an overpay to me.

[Infinity2152]

Now what's Durant going to go for?

[Dominator83]

Any first round pick, even late ones matter to teams that are rebuilding. Look at Bane...he was drafted #30. In 2024 Yves Missi was drafted #21 and TSJ at 27. 2023 Cam Whitemore went 20 and Ben Sheppard #27.

Then for the teams that aren't rebuilding they want first round picks because that's NBA currency. Again...Bane....he went for 4 first round picks. Will one of those picks be late? Maybe...it remains to be seen.

Two 2nd round picks aren't the same (I also have no idea where those 2nds would fall. At a point in the 2nd round draft players typically don't make it in the NBA).

My guess is that AK doesn't care much about picks, especially one's that don't convey for years. This is a guy who decided not to take on Harrison Barnes for the Kings pick swap.

We can agree to disagree on this. I don't think Vuc will get a first no do I think he's worth one.

Yea i don't see where Vuc fetches us a 1st either, unless maybe we're taking on bad money that goes further out.

I don't know our cap situation of if we can absorb anything, but perhaps a Vuc for Porzingis swap is possible, with Boston having no window next season and allegedly looking to save some money

We could absorb EVERYTHING, lol, if the other team wants expirings. Which a ton of teams will want. We have like $80-$90 mill in expiring contracts. Bulls plan to make a big move for a big money player before the deadline, Vucevic would probably be a huge part. 70/30 if Vuc is traded, it's not for bad money and picks, it's for a bigger contract player.

Think the Celtics would rather send Jrue than Porzingas, since Porzingas is already expiring. Jrue is bad money to the Celtics, he's going to cost them double at least in 2026. He'd be damn good for us, we could find the framework for a deal.

atleast according to the REALGM trade checker, a straight up swap of Vuc for Porzingis is legal. That saves the Celtics $10 million in salary, plus the luxury tax hit on that. For us, i would guess that Porzingis is a better "competitive play-in" piece if he can stay on the floor.

[Infinity2152]

Yea i don't see where Vuc fetches us a 1st either, unless maybe we're taking on bad money that goes further out.

I don't know our cap situation of if we can absorb anything, but perhaps a Vuc for Porzingis swap is possible, with Boston having no window next season and allegedly looking to save some money

We could absorb EVERYTHING, lol, if the other team wants expirings. Which a ton of teams will want. We have like $80-$90 mill in expiring contracts. Bulls plan to make a big move for a big money player before the deadline, Vucevic would probably be a huge part. 70/30 if Vuc is traded, it's not for bad money and picks, it's for a bigger contract player.

Think the Celtics would rather send Jrue than Porzingas, since Porzingas is already expiring. Jrue is bad money to the Celtics, he's going to cost them double at least in 2026. He'd be damn good for us, we could find the framework for a deal.

atleast according to the REALGM trade checker, a straight up swap of Vuc for Porzingis is legal. That saves the Celtics $10 million in salary, plus the luxury tax hit on that. For us, i would guess that Porzingis is a better "competitive play-in" piece if he can stay on the floor.

Fair enough. That is a large amount of actual cash, maybe close to $30 mill in savings. We're definitely not getting a pick in that, but a straight swap could be good.

[WesPeace]

Really like Bane, and think he's probably underrated. Two usable vets and 4 draft picks still seems a LOT. Knicks did the same thing. Which is why all these people saying we can't get one future or late first for Vucevic are just expressing their opinions with no connection to how teams are sending out picks now. Bane's going to be a GREAT fit on that team, they could look really good next year.

You're using Desmond Band and Mikal Bridges value as a gauge for what Vucevic might get in a trade?

He's a 34 year old center (he turns 35 in October) who isn't good defensively (at a position where most teams value defense).

If AK was willing to take on additional salary for him, then maybe I'd agree, but it seems like AK doesn't want to do that.

If you call comparing getting 4-5 picks to getting one pick the same thing, I guess. Point is future firsts don't mean nearly as much to some teams as others. Are you saying you would have given up 5 picks for Bridges or 4 picks plus players for Bane because they're such better players? Or do those teams not value picks much, compared to getting a boost now?

He's a 34 year old center who's good at shooting, which most centers are not and is elite at rebounding (at a position most teams value rebounding). There are guys who will be 40+ playing this year. And we don't need 10 teams to be willing to give up a first. We just need to find one. Anything is impossible until you try. He's expiring, very low risk for a team that wants to add some offensive punch.

On one hand AK is always accused of giving up too much in trades, at the same time being criticized for asking for too much in trades.

Moved Derozan in S&T: We had no rights to him, unrestricted free agent, got Duarte and a couple of seconds for basically nothing. Not enough, we could have got more if we traded him sooner.

Moved Zach Lavine and got Huerter and Collins, who have played well for us, and a first round pick. Consensus was we would get nothing for Zach. Not enough. We could have gotten more if we traded him sooner.

Know what Caruso was worth when we signed him? A $10 mill/yr contract. Flips that contract three years later, 29 yr old oft injured role player who averages about 22 mins for a 20pt triple double machine still on rookie contract. Not enough, we should have got a first too. We could have gotten more if we traded him sooner.

If he does trade Vucevic and doesn't get a first, it'll be not enough again. Heck, even if he does get the first, there will be some reason to say it's not enough. But somehow he keeps getting more for players than predicted.

We all have different opinions. I think if he looks long enough, and the right opportunity arises, we get that first. or he could rush and take whatever's immediately available.

I'm sorry,but what?? He keeps getting more than predicted? AKME are just bad in trades.. he SHOULD get more for Zach and Caruso, period! AKME put themselves in bad position with stupid decisions before actual trades, always waiting to long!!

Vucevic trade - he declined 2x 2nd rounders,which he shouldnt.. like those dumbasses declined 3x 2nd rounders for Drummond etc

[WesPeace]

Who knows

Read on Twitter

This would finally be good deal for us

[sco]

Who knows

Read on Twitter

This would finally be good deal for us

Not a credible source.

Obviously comes down to the picks, but $wise we could do

Spurs OUT: Barnes, Branahan, Wesley, Vassell IN: KD
Suns OUT: KD IN: Vuc, Terry, Vassell
Bulls OUT: Vuc, Terry IN: Barnes, Branahan, Wesley

I'd be rid of those 2 for nothing, but if we could nab a future lotto protected 1st, count me all in. I'd even throw-in #45.