The Kon Knueppel Thread

JMAC3 · Post #221 » by **JMAC3** » Mon Jun 16, 2025 5:36 pm

If someone clipped Kon's best 20 plays of the season together, where do you think the average scout would assume he should get drafted would be?

Post #222 » by **yosemiteben** » Mon Jun 16, 2025 7:39 pm

JMAC3 wrote:If someone clipped Kon's best 20 plays of the season together, where do you think the average scout would assume he should get drafted would be?

Honest question - why does that matter?

JMAC3 · Post #223 » by **JMAC3** » Mon Jun 16, 2025 8:21 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:If someone clipped Kon's best 20 plays of the season together, where do you think the average scout would assume he should get drafted would be?

Honest question - why does that matter?

Why does the film matter? Is this a real question?

A guy dunking over two defenders vs a guy jump stopping and shooting a two handed layup may both be worth 2 points but they say two different things about a guys ability. Same as a guy shooting a stepback three at the end of the shotclock shows me more than a guy shooting a wide open corner three.

Post #224 » by **yosemiteben** » Mon Jun 16, 2025 8:40 pm

JMAC3 wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:If someone clipped Kon's best 20 plays of the season together, where do you think the average scout would assume he should get drafted would be?

Honest question - why does that matter?

Why does the film matter? Is this a real question?

You didn't say a scout looked at his film, you said you clip the vast majority of his film and only watch 20 plays from the whole season. Why does that matter?

You've posted quite a bit that you're down on him because his highlights aren't exciting enough for you. This just feels like a modified form of that point, but pretty poorly made because obviously a scout's job is to do more than watch 20 highlights and then judge a player based on them.

Post #225 » by **fatlever** » Mon Jun 16, 2025 8:41 pm

JMAC3 wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:If someone clipped Kon's best 20 plays of the season together, where do you think the average scout would assume he should get drafted would be?

Honest question - why does that matter?

Why does the film matter? Is this a real question?

A guy dunking over two defenders vs a guy jump stopping and shooting a two handed layup may both be worth 2 points but they say two different things about a guys ability. Same as a guy shooting a stepback three at the end of the shotclock shows me more than a guy shooting a wide open corner three.

20 clips isnt "film". you know that. its difference between watching tik tok highlights of melo vs watching full games. one matters, one is just for clicks.
no draftee Should be evaluated on their 20 best or worst clips. That applies to anyone. Clips don't matter. That's like saying, if I clipped together ace Bailey's 20 worst plays of the season And showed them to a scout would he even be a second round pick?

Post #226 » by **fatlever** » Mon Jun 16, 2025 8:43 pm

Your point has been noted many times. You don't think he does anything that pops on film. And what you think looks great in a prospect on film may not necessarily be what others look for. kon can play basketball. period. He's an elite shooter and an elite processor of the game. The only real question is whether or not he's athletic enough to hang in the NBA. no need to complicate this any further than it is.

Liver_Pooty · Post #227 » by **Liver_Pooty** » Mon Jun 16, 2025 8:47 pm

I’m sure there’s a video out there somewhere but Kons passing off the pick and roll had to Maluach for an easy dunk at least once a game was masterful.

JMAC3 · Post #228 » by **JMAC3** » Mon Jun 16, 2025 9:03 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:Honest question - why does that matter?

Why does the film matter? Is this a real question?

You didn't say a scout looked at his film, you said you clip the vast majority of his film and only watch 20 plays from the whole season. Why does that matter?

You've posted quite a bit that you're down on him because his highlights aren't exciting enough for you. This just feels like a modified form of that point, but pretty poorly made because obviously a scout's job is to do more than watch 20 highlights and then judge a player based on them.

How many guys drafted in the top 10 highlight package is worse than Kon is my point. Typically you can watch a guy for 30 seconds and safely assume they are a big time talent, Kon lacks that. Maybe he is an outlier, but that is the point... if he is successful he will be an outlier.

Chapelchilla · Post #229 » by **Chapelchilla** » Mon Jun 16, 2025 9:06 pm

Kon will certainly be drafted by someone in the lottery and has a very safe floor of at least a sturdy, strong high level shooter and passer who works hard and is smart with the ball. He may not be our pick and isn't likely to be a top superstar but I will bet $ he at minimum gets a second contract and plays regular minutes while making winning plays.

Post #230 » by **yosemiteben** » Mon Jun 16, 2025 9:09 pm

JMAC3 wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:
Why does the film matter? Is this a real question?

You didn't say a scout looked at his film, you said you clip the vast majority of his film and only watch 20 plays from the whole season. Why does that matter?

You've posted quite a bit that you're down on him because his highlights aren't exciting enough for you. This just feels like a modified form of that point, but pretty poorly made because obviously a scout's job is to do more than watch 20 highlights and then judge a player based on them.

How many guys drafted in the top 10 highlight package is worse than Kon is my point. Typically you can watch a guy for 30 seconds and safely assume they are a big time talent, Kon lacks that. Maybe he is an outlier, but that is the point... if he is successful he will be an outlier.

Yes, we are aware that is your take. Maybe you're right. Asking what a scout would think if he only watched 20 highlight plays doesn't really do anything for it.

I personally believe that watching 20 highlights consisting 50% of Kon sprinting around off ball and then nailing contested 3s on a super quick release and 50% of him attacking off the dribble and finishing through double and triple teams would suggest to me that he's a big time talent, but to each their own.

JMAC3 · Post #231 » by **JMAC3** » Mon Jun 16, 2025 9:14 pm

fatlever wrote:Your point has been noted many times. You don't think he does anything that pops on film. And what you think looks great in a prospect on film may not necessarily be what others look for. kon can play basketball. period. He's an elite shooter and an elite processor of the game. The only real question is whether or not he's athletic enough to hang in the NBA. no need to complicate this any further than it is.

If you took a list of guys that are so called elite shooters, elite processors but poor athletes. Do you think there are more successful ones or more unsuccessful ones? How many of those guys turn into all-stars or even quality starters?

There is a reason every time someone compares him to Kennard or Kispert- when it gets met with backlash there are no better comps thrown out. It is because guys like him don't do well in the NBA so there aren't high end comps to compare him to.

Everyone stating he is some can't miss prospect with such a high floor then why aren't their guys all over the NBA like him having success?

Post #232 » by **yosemiteben** » Mon Jun 16, 2025 9:15 pm

JMAC3 wrote:Everyone stating he is some can't miss prospect with such a high floor...

Has even a single poster on this board said this?

It seems abundantly obvious that his athleticism and ability to create with NBA defenses, and to hold his own 1 on 1 on defense, is the big question mark. I think most if not everyone here is aware of this.

JMAC3 · Post #233 » by **JMAC3** » Mon Jun 16, 2025 9:17 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:You didn't say a scout looked at his film, you said you clip the vast majority of his film and only watch 20 plays from the whole season. Why does that matter?

You've posted quite a bit that you're down on him because his highlights aren't exciting enough for you. This just feels like a modified form of that point, but pretty poorly made because obviously a scout's job is to do more than watch 20 highlights and then judge a player based on them.

How many guys drafted in the top 10 highlight package is worse than Kon is my point. Typically you can watch a guy for 30 seconds and safely assume they are a big time talent, Kon lacks that. Maybe he is an outlier, but that is the point... if he is successful he will be an outlier.

Yes, we are aware that is your take. Maybe you're right. Asking what a scout would think if he only watched 20 highlight plays doesn't really do anything for it.

I personally believe that watching 20 highlights consisting 50% of Kon sprinting around off ball and then nailing contested 3s on a super quick release and 50% of him attacking off the dribble and finishing through double and triple teams would suggest to me that he's a big time talent, but to each their own.

Finishing through double and triple teams? Brother what lol

He shot more wide open threes than any prospect in the lottery

Read on Twitter

JMAC3 · Post #234 » by **JMAC3** » Mon Jun 16, 2025 9:20 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:Everyone stating he is some can't miss prospect with such a high floor...

Has even a single poster on this board said this?

It seems abundantly obvious that his athleticism and ability to create with NBA defenses, and to hold his own 1 on 1 on defense, is the big question mark. I think most if not everyone here is aware of this.

If that is true then what am I questioning that is so out of line that has you upset?

Post #235 » by **yosemiteben** » Mon Jun 16, 2025 9:36 pm

JMAC3 wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:
How many guys drafted in the top 10 highlight package is worse than Kon is my point. Typically you can watch a guy for 30 seconds and safely assume they are a big time talent, Kon lacks that. Maybe he is an outlier, but that is the point... if he is successful he will be an outlier.

Yes, we are aware that is your take. Maybe you're right. Asking what a scout would think if he only watched 20 highlight plays doesn't really do anything for it.

I personally believe that watching 20 highlights consisting 50% of Kon sprinting around off ball and then nailing contested 3s on a super quick release and 50% of him attacking off the dribble and finishing through double and triple teams would suggest to me that he's a big time talent, but to each their own.

Finishing through double and triple teams? Brother what lol

He shot more wide open threes than any prospect in the lottery

Read on Twitter

Post #236 » by **yosemiteben** » Mon Jun 16, 2025 9:38 pm

JMAC3 wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:Everyone stating he is some can't miss prospect with such a high floor...

Has even a single poster on this board said this?

It seems abundantly obvious that his athleticism and ability to create with NBA defenses, and to hold his own 1 on 1 on defense, is the big question mark. I think most if not everyone here is aware of this.

If that is true then what am I questioning that is so out of line that has you upset?

Nothing? I just think the "give a scout 20 plays and see what he thinks" bit doesn't make sense. No one has said that Kon is a sure thing and it's pretty obvious what the variables are that will determine his level of success.

I'm not upset at all at your take generally on Kon, it seems pretty simple and easy to understand to me. I think most in here share various shades of the concern, which is why he's not a consensus front runner around here for the pick. As I've said before, I'd prefer Tre Johnson over Kon, but I think Kon is a worthwhile pick.

JMAC3 · Post #237 » by **JMAC3** » Mon Jun 16, 2025 9:44 pm

It would be one thing if I just was posting non-sense hating on the kid but literally almost every take I have about prospects or players is accompanied by data.

Our thing is Melo and Brandon aren't good enough at getting to rim.

Brandon Miller - 85/147 at rim, 4.6 fta per game at Bama
Kon Kneuppel- 77/122 at rim, 3.3 fta per game at Duke

During Miller pre-draft everyone said he wasn't good at getting to the rim and didn't draw fouls.. Yet here we are a few years later propping up Kon as good at getting to the rim when he is worse at it? How does that make sense, do you guys really think based on the tape and numbers Kon is going to be better at getting to the rim in the NBA than a bigger, more athletic Miller?

It is just very strange to me how Kon is pitched in this draft class, I don't think I have ever seen a guard average 2.7 apg and get pushed harder as a good playmaker than I have seen with him. Jonathan Kuminga averaged 2.7 apg as a prospect, Mathurin averaged 2.5 apg as a prospect- they were pushed as negative playmakers. Cody Martin averaged 4.9 assists per game in college, nobody has ever been half as excited about him as a secondary playmaker as Kon is getting right now.

I get it, I am hater because the Mock Drafts have him so he must be good-- but I am going to keep calling out it out because it is very weird to me.

JMAC3 · Post #238 » by **JMAC3** » Mon Jun 16, 2025 9:50 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:Yes, we are aware that is your take. Maybe you're right. Asking what a scout would think if he only watched 20 highlight plays doesn't really do anything for it.

I personally believe that watching 20 highlights consisting 50% of Kon sprinting around off ball and then nailing contested 3s on a super quick release and 50% of him attacking off the dribble and finishing through double and triple teams would suggest to me that he's a big time talent, but to each their own.

Finishing through double and triple teams? Brother what lol

He shot more wide open threes than any prospect in the lottery

Read on Twitter

Maybe watch some of those highlights that you say don't jump out at you.

Videos with multiple defenders trying to stop him in the paint:

(1) https://youtu.be/NZ-61pesaSY?t=209

(2) https://youtu.be/NZ-61pesaSY?t=214

(3) https://youtu.be/NZ-61pesaSY?t=268

(4) https://youtu.be/NZ-61pesaSY?t=284

(5) https://youtu.be/NZ-61pesaSY?t=294

(6) https://youtu.be/IWhYXNNnreE?t=114

(7) https://youtu.be/IWhYXNNnreE?t=211

(8) https://youtu.be/IWhYXNNnreE?t=261

(9) https://youtu.be/ASq5zh6deJ4?t=56

(10) https://youtu.be/ASq5zh6deJ4?t=73

(11) https://youtu.be/ASq5zh6deJ4?t=107

(12) https://youtu.be/ASq5zh6deJ4?t=118

(13) https://youtu.be/ASq5zh6deJ4?t=137

(14) https://youtu.be/ASq5zh6deJ4?t=145

(15) https://youtu.be/ASq5zh6deJ4?t=156

(16) https://youtu.be/ASq5zh6deJ4?t=245

(17) https://youtu.be/ASq5zh6deJ4?t=257

(18) https://youtu.be/ASq5zh6deJ4?t=400

(19) https://youtu.be/ASq5zh6deJ4?t=476

(20) https://youtu.be/ASq5zh6deJ4?t=494

(21) https://youtu.be/ASq5zh6deJ4?t=702

Yeah we must have different expectations, these highlights I expect all 60 guys that get drafted to be able to do.
Max Shulga might not even be drafted and is just as impressive here.

Read on Twitter

/video/1

JMAC3 · Post #239 » by **JMAC3** » Mon Jun 16, 2025 9:54 pm

https://www.draftcasual.com/home/stats?playerId=303772&displayCompTable=true&compPlayerId=403006

Post #240 » by **yosemiteben** » Mon Jun 16, 2025 9:54 pm

JMAC3 wrote:It would be one thing if I just was posting non-sense hating on the kid but literally almost every take I have about prospects or players is accompanied by data.

The thing I'm reacting to is you taking an anti-data approach - yeah his stats look good, but a scout looking at 20 hand picked plays won't be impressed by him.

JMAC3 wrote:I get it, I am hater because the Mock Drafts have him so he must be good-- but I am going to keep calling out it out because it is very weird to me.

Believe it or not, posters can like Kon for reasons other than reading mock drafts.

name the tread