Stein/Fischer: Toronto willing to deal RJ Barrett, IQ, Poeltl for Significant Upgrades // #9 Available

[OakleyDokely]

Players will always use the media to get their demands/preferences out there but if KD was traded to Serbia, he'd learn Serbian because he ain't giving up the paycheque. Most teams would need to treat him as a rental though.

Hell, even the teams he wants to be traded to can't be so certain. I mean, we all thought BRK and then PHX would be his last stop.

[Brinbe]

What would the Wolves offer even be? Rudy, DDV, Dillingham and a pick?

[WuTang_OG]

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[Brinbe]

Players will always use the media to get their demands/preferences out there but if KD was traded to Serbia, he'd learn Serbian because he ain't giving up the paycheque.

Stars will almost always get their way in the end. Teams will placate them as to not sour their reps with other agents/stars and I think Dame was the one situation where it didn't go that way and that was a pretty unique situation in that the Heat had nothing of interest to offer.

And in the end, he still okay'd the Bucks instead of coming here.

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So unless things totally fall apart with the Rockets, Spurs, Heat he'll end up in one of those three places.

[LoveMyRaps]

If Shams tweets that KD is open to playing for us. How much would you be willing to trade for him then?

[kalel123]

I don't see how giving up 2 starters plus the 9th pick makes sense for a 37 year old KD that doesn't even want to play here...I don't see it happening.

Once you give up Poeltl and the 9th pick Raptors will have no starting or backup center....it will be a nightmare. Even if they're receiving a center back in the trade they won't be anything special, probably backup worthy at best.

No, it doesn't make sense but we might very well have a guy who's desperate to make a splash leading the charge. That's what it looks like if rumors are true. I thought Masai Ujiri was above stooping to Colangelo level but maybe not.

I'm sincerely rooting for Durant to go where he wants.

[CazOnReal]

What would the Wolves offer even be? Rudy, DDV, Dillingham and a pick?

Depends on whether they keep Gobert or Randle but it would have to include Donte and either Dillingham or Terrence Shannon Jr. plus one of or both 17/31. Really depends on what young player you're sending out since Rob already cost them a first and a swap - and it's not like Minnesota is drowning in draft capital as is.

Honestly, they're pretty lucky the Pistons 1st conveyed because in a better year for the East, Detroit might have fallen into the play-in or not made it outright.

[PushDaRock]

who remembers this gem of a tweet

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So? It was proven to be 100% correct. Trades happen all the time with players not wanting to go to places, the whole staying thing is the issue. The Kawhi one was a calculated risk, this is just another short-sighted move in a long line of them.

I'm here for maximum chaos though, bring him in, at least it'll be entertaining.

Nice to have you onboard Team Compete, LFG!!!

[Potential]

First of all we have to let KDs agent know that once we make a trade for KD we'll be making a ton of other trades to become a contender ASAP

[Zeno]

If Shams tweets that KD is open to playing for us. How much would you be willing to trade for him then?

I don’t think it is a good idea given that yak would surely be in the trade and we’d have no method for getting a starting 5. We’d be hard capped at the 1st apron with very limited space to add players. Unless we gave 9 too which I don’t want to do either. So to answer your question, I don’t believe there is a package that we could construct that I would like.

[mdenny]

This FO is one of the better drafting orgs in the last decade...that just hates to have draft picks.

This is by far and away the most frustrating thing about this FO. They don't play to their strengths.

But if that same FO believes the pick is worth more in a trade than by selecting a player, shouldn't we give them the benefit of the doubt?

Lol this is like saying an investor is great at buying but when they sell....they are not playing to their strength.

[ConSarnit]

This might be the worst trade I've ever seen proposed on here.

The bad part is 9 + 39 for 20 + 29

Wiggins > RJ

Poeltl = Ware + Jovic

These are the types of returns we’d get on these guys. I’d be surprised if we could trade Wiggins for RJ straight up. Wiggins 3+D ability is probably in higher demand than RJ. Ware (15th pick) and Jovic (young guy with some upside) seems about right for a solid starting C. When we traded for Poeltl we were probably expecting to give up the 15th overall pick pick + flotsam (Birch).

Remove 39 from this trade and this deal isn’t that far off.

Wiggins is not better than RJ. They both suck, but at least RJ is younger.

Disagree. It’s probably close but If both were on the trade market Wiggins would get a better return. Wiggins has proven himself to be a quality 3+D option. He fits on more teams. RJ will score a bit more but both guys are below league average efficiency. I’ll take Wiggins defense and 3pt shooting over RJ, especially on our current team.

[Tha Cynic]

IQ being moved would actually surprise me - feels like his value is at an all-time low and is only going to improve especially with his contact being flat.

This is the correct take, unless it was for someone like Garland who is a straight up upgrade, but I don't see it happening.

I think Masai knows we are not getting our guy at #9 - Khaman Maluach

We won't. #9 is a weak pick. Malauch is going 6 or 7 at the latest.

Dropping to #9 in a half-assed tank year is just another unfortunate outcome of years of missteps by the FO. Talk earlier this thread of trading for Edey reminds that he was available when our pick came up at #8 in 2024 draft but we lost that pick in the Poeltl trade. We traded for Poeltl to reunite with Siakam & FVV to aim for the playoffs, which we have failed to do every year since the trade, and both Siakam & FVV are gone.

So if we trade Poeltl now, then his time here accomplished nothing. We then turned the pages to BBQ but at end tanked both seasons since then. Then we added often-injured Ingram that offered hope, but now there's much noise of trading anyone, maybe everyone, for that big fish. Clear as mud. We've been running rudderless for the past 5 years throwing mud at the wall to see what sticks. It feels a lot like the Colangelo years.

Tank wasn’t half assed. They just don’t have a team bad enough to be very low. This is also a bad year to talk about tank execution given how modified a lot of those draft slot rankings seem.

What this year showed was how bad tanking is as a strategy.

[Brinbe]

What would the Wolves offer even be? Rudy, DDV, Dillingham and a pick?

Depends on whether they keep Gobert or Randle but it would have to include Donte and either Dillingham or Terrence Shannon Jr. plus one of or both 17/31. Really depends on what young player you're sending out since Rob already cost them a first and a swap - and it's not like Minnesota is drowning in draft capital as is.

Honestly, they're pretty lucky the Pistons 1st conveyed because in a better year for the East, Detroit might have fallen into the play-in or not made it outright.

Right. That's not a bad return for the Suns, I could see why they'd be into it. Rudy would be a hell of an improvement over what they got going there now and Dillingham could be a reserve at worst, plus the picks. DDV could be kept or parlayed into a better roster fit.

Assuming Rudy is the one going out, that would make for an interesting lineup for the Wolves in that Naz/Randle probably still start so KD is the 3, McDaniels is the 2. I guess? And Ant would be the defacto PG?

A Randle/DDV/Conley package isn't nearly as exciting so doubt the Suns would bite on that

[Tha Cynic]

Masai is going to do something stupid to justify his contract.

I can definitely see Rogers not re-signing him and removing the position completely like they did with Shanny and the Leafs.

Give examples of him doing this in the past?

[MoneyBall]

This is by far and away the most frustrating thing about this FO. They don't play to their strengths.

But if that same FO believes the pick is worth more in a trade than by selecting a player, shouldn't we give them the benefit of the doubt?

Not if that trade is for a 28 year-old role player C that doesn't fit the team's timeline or roster or a 37 year-old who will be warming the bench or retired in a year or two.

That's what the 9th pick got them many years ago when they drafted Poeltl, a role player. So the question is, with the pick they sent for Jakob, would they have drafted a player that would have given them more value than Poeltl? I'm not sure we can sit here and they would have. For all we know, they made the right move there.

[ConSarnit]

This might be the worst trade I've ever seen proposed on here.

The bad part is 9 + 39 for 20 + 29

Wiggins > RJ

Poeltl = Ware + Jovic

These are the types of returns we’d get on these guys. I’d be surprised if we could trade Wiggins for RJ straight up. Wiggins 3+D ability is probably in higher demand than RJ. Ware (15th pick) and Jovic (young guy with some upside) seems about right for a solid starting C. When we traded for Poeltl we were probably expecting to give up the 15th overall pick pick + flotsam (Birch).

Remove 39 from this trade and this deal isn’t that far off.

What about….

Raptors: Rozier, SLO-Mo, Ware, Jovic, #29
Heat: KD, #39, #52
Phoenix: RJ, Poeltl, #20


Rozier and SLO-Mo are trash contracts and both expiring. Miami going to need someone to guard perimeter but also have a big contract on hand on Wiggins for the next name to become available. I keep sending the 2nds to Miami because they are good at drafting and they will need cheap contracts to round out roster under apron(s).

Rozier becomes the new Dragic-Brown contract to be traded or bought out.

If we’re keeping the 9th I think we’d have to do your trade. Ware’s potential as a rim protecting stretch big works better with Barnes. Jovic is a solid backup PF who still has some upside. Rozier and SloMo are flotsam but Rozier could probably act as insurance at backup pg if Shead isn’t ready. We’d also open some salary flexibility to add another big.

The trade really depends on how high you’d be on Ware. He’s likely a downgrade from Poeltl next year but after that he could be as good as Poeltl (though not the same type of player) and be much cheaper. I also don’t think it’s out of the question that Jovic could become an Avdija like player.

[Raps in 4]

But if that same FO believes the pick is worth more in a trade than by selecting a player, shouldn't we give them the benefit of the doubt?

Not if that trade is for a 28 year-old role player C that doesn't fit the team's timeline or roster or a 37 year-old who will be warming the bench or retired in a year or two.

That's what the 9th pick got them many years ago when they drafted Poeltl, a role player. So the question is, with the pick they sent for Jakob, would they have drafted a player that would have given them more value than Poeltl? I'm not sure we can sit here and they would have. For all we know, they made the right move there.

Sure, but a young role player on a cheap rookie deal is worth more than an old role player. Yak was a bad fit for the Raptors at the time of the trade, and still is.

[sidsid]

Players will always use the media to get their demands/preferences out there but if KD was traded to Serbia, he'd learn Serbian because he ain't giving up the paycheque.

Stars will almost always get their way in the end. Teams will placate them as to not sour their reps with other agents/stars and I think Dame was the one situation where it didn't go that way and that was a pretty unique situation in that the Heat had nothing of interest to offer.

And in the end, he still okay'd the Bucks instead of coming here.

Read on Twitter

So unless things totally fall apart with the Rockets, Spurs, Heat he'll end up in one of those three places.

The 3 KD teams have incentives to keep their ask low.

- Miami will have cap space next year to sign KD outright if he still wants a home and the Heat don't make a move with their expirings. You lose one of the last good KD years, but it comes at no cost.

- The Rockets are looking for a younger star to mesh with their young core. Keeping the Suns picks either to reap the benefit or wait for that other player to come around is likely the more sensible move.

- The Spurs are not beggars. This is the second star directly asking to play with Wemby. There will be more.

The Wolves and Raptors just need to beat out the likely already low offers. A good chance the existing package provided is already there.

[Tha Cynic]

If PHX is willing to accept RJ/#9 and filler for Durant that is a great offer.

IQ
Ochai
KD
Barnes
JP

Won’t work without adding Poeltl to match salaries. It’s going to be at min Poeltl and RJ or IQ and pick(s).

RJ always felt like a temporary stopgap so not surprised if he’s the one being offered with Poeltl. This creates a big hole at the 5 though, so Masai must have some plan to acquire a 5 if Suns accept.

I find it too risky if it’s a one year deal. We’re not winning a Championship with that roster, but at the same time, maybe Masai doesn’t plan to resign either of Poeltl or RJ. One thing that’s forgotten about the Derozan for Kawhi deal is that Masai was probably ready to trade Derozan for scraps at that point. He only makes these type of deals if his plan imo is to move away from a certain player. It’s easier to make a one year rental play for a star when the players you give up aren’t players you want to sign to bigger deals.

Poeltl just had his best season as a pro - we literally had to sit him so we could lose games last year. The team has also had historical difficulty filling the center position.

I get the concern about giving him a huge contract when he can’t space the floor. But there is no easy way to replace that production, and you just gave up a first for him not that long ago.

It reeks of no plan. Get superstar, ????, profit.

That doesn’t sound like Masai to me.

That last thing you wrote.

He’s not going to blindly trade for Durant if he thinks the roster won’t be balanced. So I think there’s a lot we’re not getting from these reports. If we do get Durant, Masai is going all in and making subsequent moves. He has always been an elite GM.