PF targets

[the_l_train]

Literally, the 3 guys mentioned.
Although I don't believe THJ on a SnT can be traded with other players.

None of those three would be in the rotation next season if Beasley and Schroder return. The Pistons would need to be rid of a rotation player -- whether one of those two or someone under contract -- in order to open minutes for Portis (or anyone else).

Salaries can be aggregated in a S&T.

Duren/Stew
Tobias/Portis
Ausar/Holland
Ivey/Beasley
Cade/Shroder

Both teams in the finals right now go deep with their rotation. You bring in the best players possible, and let JB decide rotation when the roster is set and the time has come. Portis could very well look at our situation and think he can outplay a guy like Tobias for a majority of these minutes. I would agree with him.

Again, look at the name of this thread. PF is our weakness. Banking on Tobias and Ausar/Holland taking the backup minutes is foolish. Foolish like how we thought Ivey playing starting SG and backing up Cade was foolish. We over extended him, he got hurt and we all saw it make a million times more sense when we had a true backup for him…

10 man rotations are possible. Don’t need to go down this road again, go a few pages back to the Laravia arguments if you need a refresher on this.

“its just a basketball discussion, mate”. This thread is a broken record, let’s move on.

[Warspite]

Literally, the 3 guys mentioned.
Although I don't believe THJ on a SnT can be traded with other players.

None of those three would be in the rotation next season if Beasley and Schroder return. The Pistons would need to be rid of a rotation player -- whether one of those two or someone under contract -- in order to open minutes for Portis (or anyone else).

Salaries can be aggregated in a S&T.

If you bring in Portis then you are not bringing back Beasley or Schroder. Pistons can pay 1 or the other not both.

[the_l_train]

Literally, the 3 guys mentioned.
Although I don't believe THJ on a SnT can be traded with other players.

None of those three would be in the rotation next season if Beasley and Schroder return. The Pistons would need to be rid of a rotation player -- whether one of those two or someone under contract -- in order to open minutes for Portis (or anyone else).

Salaries can be aggregated in a S&T.

If you bring in Portis then you are not bringing back Beasley or Schroder. Pistons can pay 1 or the other not both.

With nothing set in stone, Trajan could still consolidate players with a 2 for 1. I would personally rather have all 3 of those dudes over Tobias but I digress…

Dream scenario is for guys like Beasley and Schroder to understand they are in a great situation, and take team friendly deals like Stew did. You’d think those guys might be sick of bouncing around team to team every year…but I get it, everyone wants to get paid.

[Canadafan]

Literally, the 3 guys mentioned.
Although I don't believe THJ on a SnT can be traded with other players.

None of those three would be in the rotation next season if Beasley and Schroder return. The Pistons would need to be rid of a rotation player -- whether one of those two or someone under contract -- in order to open minutes for Portis (or anyone else).

Salaries can be aggregated in a S&T.

If you bring in Portis then you are not bringing back Beasley or Schroder. Pistons can pay 1 or the other not both.

Act as an over the cap team. Sign Beasley to MLE. Sign Shröder with his bird rights. Use Hardaways bird rights to sign him to $5milion 3yr deal with only 1st yr guaranteed. Use him with Fontecchio and Sasser to get Portis at $15million.

We have a killer 10deep team.
With definite starters Duren Tobias Ausar Ivey Cade with 5 obvious backups. Porter and Tobias would be closer to an even split for PF minutes.
It's a long season. Keeps guys fresh. Injuries happen. Foul trouble happens.

[the_l_train]

None of those three would be in the rotation next season if Beasley and Schroder return. The Pistons would need to be rid of a rotation player -- whether one of those two or someone under contract -- in order to open minutes for Portis (or anyone else).

Salaries can be aggregated in a S&T.

If you bring in Portis then you are not bringing back Beasley or Schroder. Pistons can pay 1 or the other not both.

Act as an over the cap team. Sign Beasley to MLE. Sign Shröder with his bird rights. Use Hardaways bird rights to sign him to $5milion 3yr deal with only 1st yr guaranteed. Use him with Fontecchio and Sasser to get Portis at $15million.

We have a killer 10deep team.
With definite starters Duren Tobias Ausar Ivey Cade with 5 obvious backups. Porter and Tobias would be closer to an even split for PF minutes.
It's a long season. Keeps guys fresh. Injuries happen. Foul trouble happens.

Yeah man, that backup squad gives me chills. So Detroit.

Too good to be true, but if every team is gonna try to copycat Thunder/Pacers with a deep young team, those 10 are pretty damn solid and could be special.

[Crymson]

We have a killer 10deep team.
With definite starters Duren Tobias Ausar Ivey Cade with 5 obvious backups. Porter and Tobias would be closer to an even split for PF minutes.
It's a long season. Keeps guys fresh. Injuries happen. Foul trouble happens.

I'm aware of the cap mechanics; that's not what I'm referring to. Sure, it's a strong ten-man rotation, but it's one whose construction would require Portis to want to come here even though he'd be knowingly facing a major decrease in both minutes and role. Why would he want to do that?

A chief reason why ten-man rotations are so rare is that it's impossible to get significant minutes for everyone. That's the case here as well. Cade will get ~35 minutes. Ivey and Schroder would eat 50+ of the rest at guard. There would be maybe 10 minutes at guard remaining, so Beasley would play a significant number of minutes at SF. That would leave a total of 80-85 for the combination of Ausar, Holland, and Tobias. The center minutes will already be spoken for, too. There won't be anywhere in the realm of enough minutes to fit in a guy who's accustomed to 25 MPG.

The Pacers and Thunder are able to go so deep because they've each got a bunch of drafted players on rookie contracts who are already there. All of those players aside from those drafted high in the 1st come cheap, and -- more pertinently for this point -- they did not need to be convinced to join the team, because they were drafted onto the team. Free agents need to want to join your team, and they're unlikely to do so if it means taking a major reduction in role/minutes that they could avoid by signing elsewhere.

[Invictus88]

None of those three would be in the rotation next season if Beasley and Schroder return. The Pistons would need to be rid of a rotation player -- whether one of those two or someone under contract -- in order to open minutes for Portis (or anyone else).

Salaries can be aggregated in a S&T.

If you bring in Portis then you are not bringing back Beasley or Schroder. Pistons can pay 1 or the other not both.

Act as an over the cap team. Sign Beasley to MLE. Sign Shröder with his bird rights. Use Hardaways bird rights to sign him to $5milion 3yr deal with only 1st yr guaranteed. Use him with Fontecchio and Sasser to get Portis at $15million.

We have a killer 10deep team.
With definite starters Duren Tobias Ausar Ivey Cade with 5 obvious backups. Porter and Tobias would be closer to an even split for PF minutes.
It's a long season. Keeps guys fresh. Injuries happen. Foul trouble happens.

Why does THJ agree to a 5 million, 3yr deal 1st year guaranteed deal for the purposes of being traded?

[the_l_train]

If you bring in Portis then you are not bringing back Beasley or Schroder. Pistons can pay 1 or the other not both.

Act as an over the cap team. Sign Beasley to MLE. Sign Shröder with his bird rights. Use Hardaways bird rights to sign him to $5milion 3yr deal with only 1st yr guaranteed. Use him with Fontecchio and Sasser to get Portis at $15million.

We have a killer 10deep team.
With definite starters Duren Tobias Ausar Ivey Cade with 5 obvious backups. Porter and Tobias would be closer to an even split for PF minutes.
It's a long season. Keeps guys fresh. Injuries happen. Foul trouble happens.

Why does THJ agree to a 5 million, 3yr deal 1st year guaranteed deal for the purposes of being traded?

Because it’s the best offer he can get? Better than us letting him walk and him not getting anything better elsewhere. Doubt teams are clamoring for him, more of a way to match salaries than anything...I’d only want him back if he’s on a vet minimum as 15th man, break glass only if needed sorta thing.

[Crymson]

Both teams in the finals right now go deep with their rotation. You bring in the best players possible, and let JB decide rotation when the roster is set and the time has come. Portis could very well look at our situation and think he can outplay a guy like Tobias for a majority of these minutes. I would agree with him.

I'll just address this once. The notion that a player who's accustomed to playing 25 MPG on a contender would join this team on the mere possibility that he might be able to get himself meaningful minutes by winning out over Tobias when he could just sign elsewhere instead for a guaranteed role with significant minutes or simply stay with the Bucks in his current role is insane wishful thinking.

The Pacers and the Thunder go deep because they can, and they can because they each have a bunch of drafted bench players who are already on the team. All of those are paid rookie-scale salaries and none of them had to be convinced to join the team, because they were drafted.

[the_l_train]

Both teams in the finals right now go deep with their rotation. You bring in the best players possible, and let JB decide rotation when the roster is set and the time has come. Portis could very well look at our situation and think he can outplay a guy like Tobias for a majority of these minutes. I would agree with him.

I'll just address this once. The notion that a player who's accustomed to playing 25 MPG on a contender would join this team on the mere possibility that he might be able to get himself meaningful minutes by winning out over Tobias when he could just sign elsewhere instead for a guaranteed role with significant minutes or simply stay with the Bucks in his current role is insane wishful thinking.

The Pacers and the Thunder go deep because they can, and they can because they each have a bunch of drafted bench players who are already on the team. All of those are paid rookie-scale salaries and none of them had to be convinced to join the team, because they were drafted.

Glad to hear it will be your last time addressing it.

Yes it is wishful thinking. I wish we would not settle on Tobias Harris at PF, and I am hopeful Trajan has the foresight to make a move to change that.

The thought with Portis had started with the mindset that Giannis would leave, the Bucks would be on the down slope, and he would bounce accordingly. Playing with a guy like Cade and an up and coming team like ours should in theory be enticing….especially when we have a massive hole in one particular position.

Not out of the realm of possibility that Trajan could have moves up his sleeve to make this less of a pipe dream.

[DetroitSho]

Literally, the 3 guys mentioned.
Although I don't believe THJ on a SnT can be traded with other players.

None of those three would be in the rotation next season if Beasley and Schroder return. The Pistons would need to be rid of a rotation player -- whether one of those two or someone under contract -- in order to open minutes for Portis (or anyone else).

Salaries can be aggregated in a S&T.

Duren/Stew
Tobias/Portis
Ausar/Holland
Ivey/Beasley
Cade/Shroder

Both teams in the finals right now go deep with their rotation. You bring in the best players possible, and let JB decide rotation when the roster is set and the time has come. Portis could very well look at our situation and think he can outplay a guy like Tobias for a majority of these minutes. I would agree with him.

Again, look at the name of this thread. PF is our weakness. Banking on Tobias and Ausar/Holland taking the backup minutes is foolish. Foolish like how we thought Ivey playing starting SG and backing up Cade was foolish. We over extended him, he got hurt and we all saw it make a million times more sense when we had a true backup for him…

10 man rotations are possible. Don’t need to go down this road again, go a few pages back to the Laravia arguments if you need a refresher on this.

“its just a basketball discussion, mate”. This thread is a broken record, let’s move on.

Are you trying to insinuate Ivey got hurt because he was over-extended? W in T whole F?

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

[the_l_train]

None of those three would be in the rotation next season if Beasley and Schroder return. The Pistons would need to be rid of a rotation player -- whether one of those two or someone under contract -- in order to open minutes for Portis (or anyone else).

Salaries can be aggregated in a S&T.

Duren/Stew
Tobias/Portis
Ausar/Holland
Ivey/Beasley
Cade/Shroder

Both teams in the finals right now go deep with their rotation. You bring in the best players possible, and let JB decide rotation when the roster is set and the time has come. Portis could very well look at our situation and think he can outplay a guy like Tobias for a majority of these minutes. I would agree with him.

Again, look at the name of this thread. PF is our weakness. Banking on Tobias and Ausar/Holland taking the backup minutes is foolish. Foolish like how we thought Ivey playing starting SG and backing up Cade was foolish. We over extended him, he got hurt and we all saw it make a million times more sense when we had a true backup for him…

10 man rotations are possible. Don’t need to go down this road again, go a few pages back to the Laravia arguments if you need a refresher on this.

“its just a basketball discussion, mate”. This thread is a broken record, let’s move on.

Are you trying to insinuate Ivey got hurt because he was over-extended? W in T whole F?

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

My bad, I worded that very weird…I know it was a malicious Cole Anthony “accident”…part of me selfishly MAYBE insinuating that just to try and win the argument…BUT I do think we over extended Ivey with the staggering of PG mins….and him getting hurt lead us to finally getting a true backup PG, which was our biggest need to start the season.

Plugging in starters as your main backups at other positions is a bad idea was the point…but you got me there, foot in mouth.

[Canadafan]

If you bring in Portis then you are not bringing back Beasley or Schroder. Pistons can pay 1 or the other not both.

Act as an over the cap team. Sign Beasley to MLE. Sign Shröder with his bird rights. Use Hardaways bird rights to sign him to $5milion 3yr deal with only 1st yr guaranteed. Use him with Fontecchio and Sasser to get Portis at $15million.

We have a killer 10deep team.
With definite starters Duren Tobias Ausar Ivey Cade with 5 obvious backups. Porter and Tobias would be closer to an even split for PF minutes.
It's a long season. Keeps guys fresh. Injuries happen. Foul trouble happens.

Why does THJ agree to a 5 million, 3yr deal 1st year guaranteed deal for the purposes of being traded?

Because he isn't likely to get anything above a vets minimum by anyone.
I believe the rule for signing and trading him is you have ti sign that person to a 3yr deal with the 1st yr guaranteed.

[Canadafan]

We have a killer 10deep team.
With definite starters Duren Tobias Ausar Ivey Cade with 5 obvious backups. Porter and Tobias would be closer to an even split for PF minutes.
It's a long season. Keeps guys fresh. Injuries happen. Foul trouble happens.

I'm aware of the cap mechanics; that's not what I'm referring to. Sure, it's a strong ten-man rotation, but it's one whose construction would require Portis to want to come here even though he'd be knowingly facing a major decrease in both minutes and role. Why would he want to do that?

A chief reason why ten-man rotations are so rare is that it's impossible to get significant minutes for everyone. That's the case here as well. Cade will get ~35 minutes. Ivey and Schroder would eat 50+ of the rest at guard. There would be maybe 10 minutes at guard remaining, so Beasley would play a significant number of minutes at SF. That would leave a total of 80-85 for the combination of Ausar, Holland, and Tobias. The center minutes will already be spoken for, too. There won't be anywhere in the realm of enough minutes to fit in a guy who's accustomed to 25 MPG.

The Pacers and Thunder are able to go so deep because they've each got a bunch of drafted players on rookie contracts who are already there. All of those players aside from those drafted high in the 1st come cheap, and -- more pertinently for this point -- they did not need to be convinced to join the team, because they were drafted onto the team. Free agents need to want to join your team, and they're unlikely to do so if it means taking a major reduction in role/minutes that they could avoid by signing elsewhere.

Id envision;
Duren28 Stew20
Tobias24 Portis24
Ausar30 Holland18
Ivey28 Beasley20
Cade32 Shröder16

[Crymson]

Id envision;
Duren28 Stew20
Tobias24 Portis24
Ausar30 Holland18
Ivey28 Beasley20
Cade32 Shröder16

Then you'd be asking Beasley to take a major reduction in minutes and for Schroder to accept his minutes being slashed nearly in half. The 28 MPG Schroder averaged this season was his lowest across the last nine seasons; he'd presumably be satisfied with playing 25 MPG or so, but 16? Like Portis, he's accustomed to substantial minutes. These guys want to play, and that would be a massive diminution of his role. Beasley, at eight minutes less than this season, would be seeing his own minutes cut by almost 30%.

Free agents need to want to sign with your team. "We'll have you back, but we'll be slashing your minutes" is a very bad sell.

[Mr Peanut]

It's been said earlier in the thread, but we can't be considered a team serious about making noise in the East if we go into next season with Tobias as our lone rotation quality PF option. Ausar/Holland are good for spot minutes but shouldn't be relied upon to play significant time alongside Stew in our bench rotation (and Ausar will be our starting SF anyway). Fontecchio's production was not deserving of minutes last year and we can't just assume he will suddenly return to his 2023/24 form. It doesn't necessarily have to be Portis, but you do need another rotation quality PF on the roster. Injuries happen.

There was a similar discussion on this board last off-season following the draft/FA when Cade and Ivey were the only ball-handlers/reasonable PG options on the roster, and many of us were advocating for another PG because it was clear that Sasser wasn't ideal in this role and we were an injury away from trouble. Lo and behold Ivey got injured and we faced that situation - we were fortuitous that Schroder was available at the deadline, but ideally you don't want to rely on mid-season trades to fix your roster deficiencies and need to plan your depth in advance for these scenarios.

[the_l_train]

It's been said earlier in the thread, but we can't be considered a team serious about making noise in the East if we go into next season with Tobias as our lone rotation quality PF option. Ausar/Holland are good for spot minutes but shouldn't be relied upon to play significant time alongside Stew in our bench rotation (and Ausar will be our starting SF anyway). Fontecchio's production was not deserving of minutes last year and we can't just assume he will suddenly return to his 2023/24 form. It doesn't necessarily have to be Portis, but you do need another rotation quality PF on the roster. Injuries happen.

There was a similar discussion on this board last off-season following the draft/FA when Cade and Ivey were the only ball-handlers/reasonable PG options on the roster, and many of us were advocating for another PG because it was clear that Sasser wasn't ideal in this role and we were an injury away from trouble. Lo and behold Ivey got injured and we faced that situation - we were fortuitous that Schroder was available at the deadline, but ideally you don't want to rely on mid-season trades to fix your roster deficiencies and need to plan your depth in advance for these scenarios.

Preach!

I know Tobias is JBs security blanket and a great locker room guy, but we gotta get him in a lesser role so we can offer those starter minutes to a free agent who can make a real difference.

[Crymson]

It's been said earlier in the thread, but we can't be considered a team serious about making noise in the East if we go into next season with Tobias as our lone rotation quality PF option. Ausar/Holland are good for spot minutes but shouldn't be relied upon to play significant time alongside Stew in our bench rotation (and Ausar will be our starting SF anyway). Fontecchio's production was not deserving of minutes last year and we can't just assume he will suddenly return to his 2023/24 form. It doesn't necessarily have to be Portis, but you do need another rotation quality PF on the roster. Injuries happen.

There was a similar discussion on this board last off-season following the draft/FA when Cade and Ivey were the only ball-handlers/reasonable PG options on the roster, and many of us were advocating for another PG because it was clear that Sasser wasn't ideal in this role and we were an injury away from trouble. Lo and behold Ivey got injured and we faced that situation - we were fortuitous that Schroder was available at the deadline, but ideally you don't want to rely on mid-season trades to fix your roster deficiencies and need to plan your depth in advance for these scenarios.

I'm all for it if it doesn't open up even bigger holes elsewhere by depriving the Pistons of Beasley or Schroder. But that's the trouble: anyone they add in that situation is going to be a 10th man (behind Cade, Ivey, Schroder, Beasley, Ausar, Holland, Tobias, Stewart, and Duren, assuming he's not replaced) who might average 10 MPG in a healthy rotation, and finding a solid player who'll be satisfied with being guaranteed so few minutes is likely to be tough. Do you have anyone in mind?

For what it's worth, I think this particular gap is substantially smaller than the gaping pre-Schroder hole where another reliable lead handler should've been.

Finally -- though I don't believe you're claiming otherwise -- I think that many here might be overestimating the degree to which the front office is prioritizing "making noise in the East" next season versus focusing sufficiently on development and building sustainably. This was a 43-win team last season in a weak conference, and it's got youth with substantial room for potential growth. Though I understand why folks want more wins, this roster is not in a win-now situation.

[Canadafan]

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[blog_pistons]

I think I've said it before, guys, Portis is a stretch five, he can't play quality PF minutes, he's not capable of having the lateral mobility that he used to have.