The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 3

[sunsbum]

I miss rayray

rayray didn’t know anything either

[Qwigglez]

But you can't really say that with any certainty man because you can't predict what kind of follow up moves we might entertain in the coming years much less what our cap situation and free agency moves might look like post follow up moves and roster changes ( Beal coming off the books, etc)??

Also, it can't be predicted what kind of impact whatever prospects we'd choose to draft might have for our team. I mean, who was expecting Dunn and Oso to make the impact that they did in limited/ restricted opportunities?

Acquiring these players (Gobert, Di Vincenzo, etc) gives us more variance in differing assets, salaries, etc to make other moves that we obviously couldn't under the conditions that KD is attached to. Again, it all depends upon what we might be able to do with the pieces we'd get back from a KD trade man.

I just don't think moving KD for Gobert who is very limited on the offensive end of the court, DD is moving the needle in a positive direction for the Suns. I'd much prefer a Heat package centered around Ware and Jovic.
Even the Rockets package comes with young premier talent. For me, Dillingham, along with the 17th pick just isn't it.

[lilfishi22]

Trading with the Wolves would keep the Suns in the 30-36 wins a year column for the next half-decade with no hope of any upside on the roster. And I'm actually being very generous saying that because the Suns would likely just top out at 36 wins and it would be downhill from that point.

100%. And doing it for what? some crappy picks in this year's draft and something 6 years down the track?

Whether it comes as a surprise to anyone really, we as a team aren't competing for anything notable anytime soon anyways.


People need to try and be more open minded about our disadvantageous situation and look at these possibilities as acquiring other assets to make more moves in the future and create more flexibility with these different acquired assets. It's kind of about resetting our current asset/ trade timeline.

And even though this draft has seen a lot of premium talent withdraw from the draft, there's still some pretty intruiging talent that could be farmed at various ranges. Lastly, those picks 6 yrs down the line should carry very solid percieved value. Same as our 31' 1st was percieved to possess.

But either way, it's still a future asset that fan he moved purposefully if our front office is diligent at all?

So what's the point of Gobert and DDV lol

Give me the best package that puts us in the best position moving forward. The #17 pick doesn't beat the #10 pick Houston has and the 2nd rounder is nice but you could probably finesse one from Houston as well. As for the 2032 pick, I'm not saying there's no value, I'm saying it's too difficult to predict what kind of value it might have. It's so far in the future from an NBA landscape standpoint, they could be contending in 2032 or Ant might have left Minny already and it's a good pick. Like it's just too far in the future to reliably predict whether this is a premium FRP or it's a bit of a whatever FRP

[lilfishi22]

Neither are these. Dillingham just came off a disappointing rookie year, those 17 and 31 picks aren't of much value and that Minny 2032 is just too far out for me to really place any sort of concrete value on it. Of course, Gobert and DDV does nothing for me

Trading with the Wolves would keep the Suns in the 30-36 wins a year column for the next half-decade with no hope of any upside on the roster. And I'm actually being very generous saying that because the Suns would likely just top out at 36 wins and it would be downhill from that point.

But you can't really say that with any certainty man because you can't predict what kind of follow up moves we might entertain in the coming years much less what our cap situation and free agency moves might look like post follow up moves and roster changes ( Beal coming off the books, etc)??

Also, it can't be predicted what kind of impact whatever prospects we'd choose to draft might have for our team. I mean, who was expecting Dunn and Oso to make the impact that they did in limited/ restricted opportunities?

Acquiring these players (Gobert, Di Vincenzo, etc) gives us more variance in differing assets, salaries, etc to make other moves that we obviously couldn't under the conditions that KD is attached to. Again, it all depends upon what we might be able to do with the pieces we'd get back from a KD trade man.

Which is why you don't. You evaluate the KD trade on its own merits first and foremost. Trying to predict the value of the assets we receive based on hypothetical future trades is unhelpful because the variance is simply too great.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I'm not stoked about that Min offer. But I do think DDV has real value so maybe if he's rerouted somewhere it could look better.

Again I'm not feeling the deal but Rudy basically makes you a good defensive team on his own so they'd have a shot at being a decent team next year.

But yeah give me the higher upside trades.

[sunsbum]

Pretty sure it’s down to the spurs or rockets, everything else is just sounding like BS.

[Ghost of Kleine]

But you can't really say that with any certainty man because you can't predict what kind of follow up moves we might entertain in the coming years much less what our cap situation and free agency moves might look like post follow up moves and roster changes ( Beal coming off the books, etc)??

Also, it can't be predicted what kind of impact whatever prospects we'd choose to draft might have for our team. I mean, who was expecting Dunn and Oso to make the impact that they did in limited/ restricted opportunities?

Acquiring these players (Gobert, Di Vincenzo, etc) gives us more variance in differing assets, salaries, etc to make other moves that we obviously couldn't under the conditions that KD is attached to. Again, it all depends upon what we might be able to do with the pieces we'd get back from a KD trade man.

I just don't think moving KD for Gobert who is very limited on the offensive end of the court, DD is moving the needle in a positive direction for the Suns. I'd much prefer a Heat package centered around Ware and Jovic.
Even the Rockets package comes with young premier talent. For me, Dillingham, along with the 17th pick just isn't it.

I'd prefer those trades too. But if we're not getting equitable value anyways from the Heat ( No Ware) and not from the Rockets either (No Jabari Smith Jr and no Eason or Reed or even Whitmore) and not getting at least 2/3 of our picks back, then I'll gladly accept either the Raptors trade ( 1st preference) or the Wolves trade.

BECAUSE I would then trade Gobert to another team needing a quality defensive center. Maybe one of Washington, Chicago, Charlotte, Golden State, Lakers, Pelicans, Milwaukee?

- Washington.
Gobert for Smart/ George or Bey/ 18th and 40th picks?

- Chicago.
Gobert for Vucevic/ Ball/ POR 26' 1st ( Top 14 protected)/ CHI 28' 1st.

- Charlotte.
Gobert for Miles Bridges/ Tidjane Salaune/ Mark Williams/ DAL 27' 1st ( Top 2 protected)/ CHO 29' 1st/ 33rd and 34th picks ( 25 draft).

- Golden State.
Gobert for Kuminga/ Podziemski/ Jackson Davis/ GS 26' 1st/ GS 28' 1st/ GS 32' 1st.

- Lakers.
Gobert for Reeves/ Hachimura/ Knecht/ LAL 31' 1st.

- Pelicans.
Gobert for Jones/ Olynyk/ Hawkins/ Missi/ IND 26' 1st ( Top 4 protected)/ NOP 28' 1st/ NOP 31' 1st. OR Gobert for Zion??

- San Antonio.
Gobert for Barnes/ Sochan/ filler/ 14th pick/38th pick/ ATL 27' 1st/ DAL 30' 1st swap??

Or imagine what we could pull in a trade for a combo of Gobert/ O'neale or Gobert/ Allen??

And then I'd trade either Allen or Di Vincenzo and O'neale for other pieces and picks whilst keeping the other for depth. Plenty of teams would put premium value on getting a floor spacing/ 3 point shooting wing option.

[RaisingArizona]

If McDaniel's isn't coming with the Wolves, I don't want it. Texas two step for me, gents

[RaisingArizona]

Pretty sure it’s down to the spurs or rockets, everything else is just sounding like BS.

Let's hope so. The only teams that can give us anything worth a ****

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

This is fine! If KD wants to play hardball, then just trade him to Toronto! That's currently the best value offer with the 9th pick included anyways.

This shouldn't even he a discussion if Toronto's willing to include the 9th pick and Barrett or Quickly with Poetl.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Trading with the Wolves would keep the Suns in the 30-36 wins a year column for the next half-decade with no hope of any upside on the roster. And I'm actually being very generous saying that because the Suns would likely just top out at 36 wins and it would be downhill from that point.

But you can't really say that with any certainty man because you can't predict what kind of follow up moves we might entertain in the coming years much less what our cap situation and free agency moves might look like post follow up moves and roster changes ( Beal coming off the books, etc)??

Also, it can't be predicted what kind of impact whatever prospects we'd choose to draft might have for our team. I mean, who was expecting Dunn and Oso to make the impact that they did in limited/ restricted opportunities?

Acquiring these players (Gobert, Di Vincenzo, etc) gives us more variance in differing assets, salaries, etc to make other moves that we obviously couldn't under the conditions that KD is attached to. Again, it all depends upon what we might be able to do with the pieces we'd get back from a KD trade man.

Which is why you don't. You evaluate the KD trade on its own merits first and foremost. Trying to predict the value of the assets we receive based on hypothetical future trades is unhelpful because the variance is simply too great.

It's own merits are showing us though that teams are intending to lowball us into a losing return for minimal value based upon the very weak arguments of his age and contract status.

So many if these better offers might very likely not even be on the table for us, and the Minnesota might turn out to be the best LEGITIMATE offer available for us?? At that point, you kind of have to squeeze as much potential value as you can out of the cumulative pieces involved.

[Revived]

Read on Twitter

This should be an easy and immediate yes for Phoenix!!! There's simply no better offer waiting for Phoenix with majority teams trying to lowball our front office.

You know the Suns are just gonna use that pick on some MSU prospect regardless of whether he deserves to get drafted that high or not.

[Revived]

Read on Twitter

Should probably trade Booker before he retires to pursue streaming full time.

[Bogyo]

To me right now the Toronto offer is the best. FK KD and where he wants to go. If we get RJ/Poetl/9th pick (and maybe Agbaji) then just pull the trigger.
RJ is 25 year old wiht 2 (or3?) more years on his contract (26mill/year, very good value). He is 6'6 and 215 pounds, rebounded above 6 in 2 of his previous 3 years. Scores 20+PPG with good shooting (around 50% last 3 years with about 36% from 3 last 3 years), and 4ish assists. He can be starting SF next to Book.
Poeltl is 29, with 2 (or 3?) years on his contract (20/yr). He is about 15/10/1.blk/2assist a game with OK defense and goodish rim protection.
Thats 2 good NBA starters, and dont tell me RJ can't be an all star if he has a good season in the future with those numbers. Then you add the number 9 pick that can be a good contributor right away - or can be traded with one of our wings for a good PG.
Basically you can fill 3 starting positions with this trade without too much manuvering, and the players are the best ones offered all things considered.
I value RJ (age, size, production, contract, brain, attitude) above Green, Vassel, and DDV for sure, and Poetl above Gobert (contract, mobility, age, offense - although Gobert is still the better rim protector) or Barnes. Ware didnt exactly light the world on fire, so number 9 is as good at least.
What is there to think about if this is on the table?

[Qwigglez]

To me right now the Toronto offer is the best. FK KD and where he wants to go. If we get RJ/Poetl/9th pick (and maybe Agbaji) then just pull the trigger.
RJ is 25 year old wiht 2 (or3?) more years on his contract (26mill/year, very good value). He is 6'6 and 215 pounds, rebounded above 6 in 2 of his previous 3 years. Scores 20+PPG with good shooting (around 50% last 3 years with about 36% from 3 last 3 years), and 4ish assists. He can be starting SF next to Book.
Poeltl is 29, with 2 (or 3?) years on his contract (20/yr). He is about 15/10/1.blk/2assist a game with OK defense and goodish rim protection.
Thats 2 good NBA starters, and dont tell me RJ can't be an all star if he has a good season in the future with those numbers. Then you add the number 9 pick that can be a good contributor right away - or can be traded with one of our wings for a good PG.
Basically you can fill 3 starting positions with this trade without too much manuvering, and the players are the best ones offered all things considered.
I value RJ (age, size, production, contract, brain, attitude) above Green, Vassel, and DDV for sure, and Poetl above Gobert (contract, mobility, age, offense - although Gobert is still the better rim protector) or Barnes. Ware didnt exactly light the world on fire, so number 9 is as good at least.
What is there to think about if this is on the table?

I'm not overly thrilled about RJ Barrett. His TS% is about average and his defense needs a lot of work. I do like Poeltl. Ochai put a ton of work in this season.

[Saberestar]

To me right now the Toronto offer is the best. FK KD and where he wants to go. If we get RJ/Poetl/9th pick (and maybe Agbaji) then just pull the trigger.
RJ is 25 year old wiht 2 (or3?) more years on his contract (26mill/year, very good value). He is 6'6 and 215 pounds, rebounded above 6 in 2 of his previous 3 years. Scores 20+PPG with good shooting (around 50% last 3 years with about 36% from 3 last 3 years), and 4ish assists. He can be starting SF next to Book.
Poeltl is 29, with 2 (or 3?) years on his contract (20/yr). He is about 15/10/1.blk/2assist a game with OK defense and goodish rim protection.
Thats 2 good NBA starters, and dont tell me RJ can't be an all star if he has a good season in the future with those numbers. Then you add the number 9 pick that can be a good contributor right away - or can be traded with one of our wings for a good PG.
Basically you can fill 3 starting positions with this trade without too much manuvering, and the players are the best ones offered all things considered.
I value RJ (age, size, production, contract, brain, attitude) above Green, Vassel, and DDV for sure, and Poetl above Gobert (contract, mobility, age, offense - although Gobert is still the better rim protector) or Barnes. Ware didnt exactly light the world on fire, so number 9 is as good at least.
What is there to think about if this is on the table?

That could the good offer that the Suns have on table until draft's night. There's nor rush to accept it.

They are trying to get a bit more from every team. At the end of the day KD is gonna get traded before the draft and we will change our roster A LOT in the next two weeks.

I expect KD being traded in the next few days because one of those teams will add another asset on the table and we will take it and end the bidding war.

[Djedefre]

RJ is not, in any way, shape or form, better than Green or Vassell. Poeltl is solid, true, can fill the starting c spot, but nothing to rave about. #9 is like the same as #14 in this class. Unless they include Dick (which they won't, ever) this package is easily worse than what Rockets or Spurs can give. Raps may top Minny (they never got anything even remotely good or interesting to offer) or Heat (that one is debatable, you could argue that Ware may become great in a few years cause he's pretty young still and Wiggins is not inferior to RJ in any way, just a few years older), but they have to step up their game if they really want to roll the dice with Durant.

[Rebound Mound]

Some thoughts:
- KD wants to go to a team that has options to win something although, realistically, the Suns have a much better roster should he stay than any of those teams, unless he goes to the Spurs for scraps and they put together Fox-Castle-KD-Wembanyama-C.
- He wants to go to a place with a mild climate.
- He wants to go to a state with low or no taxes.
- he wants to go to a team that gives him two more years after 2026.

On the other hand:
- Ishbia spent like crazy for 18 months, not he needs to cut down on stupid expending and needs to unload Micic, Allen, ONeale, Robinson if obtained from the Heat... I understand business situations can change, but this sounds like bad planning...

So I do believe we should play our cards and try our best to get back the best possible package or the group of players that best fit our interests.

I do believe the best option, from a win-now perspective, would be the one with Jabari+Van Vleet if the Rockets are willing to do that. A PG with points and clear ideas and a young player which much needed athletic abilities who can shoot from deep at the PF spot. If picks are given back, much better. If not, fair deal. Dillon Brooks at this point and pick would make it for VV to me.

[mkot]

Read on Twitter

Should probably trade Booker before he retires to pursue streaming full time.

or becoming Podcast Book

[Slim Charless]

Read on Twitter

This should be an easy and immediate yes for Phoenix!!! There's simply no better offer waiting for Phoenix with majority teams trying to lowball our front office.

You know the Suns are just gonna use that pick on some MSU prospect regardless of whether he deserves to get drafted that high or not.

Jace Richardson.

....and yes that's who we will pick at #9 or #10 or #5 or any place outside of Cooper/Harper. I'd rather not even have a pick that high. Tell Houston they can keep this year's pick and to give us back 27/29 along with Jalen and Jabari.

I don't want Ish even getting close enough to even sense he can draft Jace...unless its after pick #16