BREAKING: Magic acquire Desmond Bane (KCP, Cole + 4 1st Round Picks + 1 1st Round Pick Swap)

[Knightro]

Retaining Moe at the full $11M would be a shocker and probably signal a Goga or Isaac trade for sure.

[fendilim]

Priority likely is to move Jett.

Weltman said so himself that there really is not much minutes to be given to develop talent anymore. I don't think we carry 2 rookies coming into the season.

However, I don't agree with this approach.

We can always stagger minutes and play 4 veterans with a rookie. That's how good teams are able to develop talents, especially now younger players are coming in more skilled.

As long as Jamal gives them a define role and they play within that system, the rookie will be fine.

Don't be like Jett, his role is to shoot, but he dribbles too much. lol

[Knightro]

Priority likely is to move Jett.

Weltman said so himself that there really is not much minutes to be given to develop talent anymore. I don't think we carry 2 rookies coming into the season.

However, I don't agree with this approach.

We can always stagger minutes and play 4 veterans with a rookie. That's how good teams are able to develop talents, especially now younger players are coming in more skilled.

As long as Jamal gives them a define role and they play within that system, the rookie will be fine.

Don't be like Jett, his role is to shoot, but he dribbles too much. lol

Financially it makes the most sense to move on from Jett. He can’t be relied upon to play backup SG minutes at this point and the Magic can replace his salary slot with someone cheaper.

[Rainwater]

Retaining Moe at the full $11M would be a shocker and probably signal a Goga or Isaac trade for sure.

I think there are more trades on the horizon, Wetmen said it himself. If think a combination of Isaac, Goga, Jett, and TDS won't be here long. I think Jett should have his bags packed already, lol. Draft night is going to be fun.

[Rainwater]

Read on Twitter

With Houstan and M-Wagner still under contract, the Magic is at 193,385,297 in payroll right now, which is 2,560,703 under the 195,946,000 apron.

Orlando currently has 13 players, meaning an obligation for one-more.

So: Orlando can sign a vet with less than 4-years NBA experience, a G-leaguer, or an undrafted rookie with their salary space, and remain under the apron. Think: Lindy Waters III or Wendell Moore Jr. for the FA. And Jase Richardson, Walter Clayton, or Ben Saraf for the rookie. Something like that.

Of course another trade or a M-Wagner restructure is also possible.

But: the Magic "did it" financially.

......

Orlando (desperately) needs two guards with the rookie and the free agent.
To see what this feels like, let's call the final two Magicians Lindy Waters and Walter Clayton.

Suggs/Black/Clayton
Bane/Waters/Howard
F-Wagner/Houstan
Banchero/Isaac/da SIlva
Carter/Bitadze/M-Wagner

Serious deficiencies in backup wing production. But love the starters.

I don't think the Magic are done, I think more trades are to come.

[eyriq]

This ultimately comes down to how he is utilized and folded into the current system.

Now do I believe Mosely is going to have Desmond Bane running offense and getting people into better positions for pick and roll opportunities? No. Paolo and Franz will be bringing up the ball a majority of the time.

Our info on how Bane is used was in one total system in Memphis as the main secondary option off of Ja. He will not be that guy in Orlando in my estimation. He will be the 3rd option, which is nice because it means less pressure on Suggs.

It’s not that I think he’s incapable of the things you listed. It’s that he won’t be tasked with a lot of it due to how things have been run here. And no, he isn’t a primary playmaker. It’s not like people list him as some dual threat combo guard like Harden, SGA, or something. He’s a 3&D guy with a little more in his bag than the average catch and shoot guy. Hes basically a much more elite offensively older Suggs from a season ago in terms of how he gets into spots and defensively.

I thought about what you and pepe said and Bane and his role.
We were and are in the same boat regarding a need for lead ball handler. Where we differ i guess is you think we should keep PB while adding lead ball handler while i think we can trade Banchero for a lead ball handler or build around him with more scoring oriented guard.
I just dont think adding a lead ball handler to Franz, Paolo and Jalen makes that much sense. We would pay two max contracts for off ball players ? So what we need from our guard ? 1. Shooting 2. Being able to perform pick and roll becouse it doesnt work well between Franz and Paolo 3. Making smart decisive decisions moving the ball 4. Not being a weak link defensively.
You can argue Bane is just good not elite in pick and roll and i get that but other options were Fox who wanted to play for Spurs is on the last year of his contract and will want a mx himself. Morant who is not for trade, small and not good shooter. Lillard who is old and injured. Curry who is not for trade. Maxey not for trade. Young small and expensive. Like what is the alternative ?
Even if we wanted to trade Banchero who is worth it and available ? SGA not. Haliburton not. Brunson not worth it. Curry old. Cunningham not.

Bane is propably good enough to relieve some pressure from them. Can be involved in pnr, hand offs, running off the screen. When we bank on PB and FW he just makes sense while not pretending to be a lead ball handler. (and he doesnt have to)

If things go south and both Paolo and Franz stagnate than we can trade one of them for a chance at better lead ball handler. We will recharge our picks just as Banchero enters his 27 year on this planet. Until then we can try with different iterations. We can trade Suggs. We can experiment with different centers.

tldr we can still be contenders while Bane is not a lead ball handler.

I'm going to respond to this post even though I know not many want to read a wall of text.

Anyway, you candidly brought up some sacred cows so here it goes.

I'm not a huge fan of Paolo Banchero. I don't like his game. I don't like traditional power forwards that aren't either terrific defenders OR don't stretch the floor reliably. He does neither. I also just don't like face up iso forwards that are not great finishers, effort rebounders, or both. Non versatile Power Forwards in my mind are basically a utility position unless they either possess all of the aforementioned abilities or are unstoppable scorers.

There are like 8 or 9 guys that are traditional non-versatile power forwards that are actually elite league wide (Giannis, AD, Sabonis, Mobely, JJJ, Siakam, Lauri) others are either multi positional as Centers or Small Forwards. I felt the same exact way about Aaron Gordon throughout the duration of his time here. Turns out he's a 3rd/4th option utility guy, which is exactly what I thought he was based on his skillset.

With Paolo he's basically all of those things I dislike. I said this since his days at Duke and despite all that I thought he was the best selection and fit for us in the draft at #1.

ANYWAY NOW with all that being said and getting to the crux of the discussion...

Orlando is not willingly going to trade him. I've just accepted that he is part of the future and Weltman's grand plan of position-less forwards and a defensive back court emulating Boston's blueprint MINUS the ability for either of them to shoot as well as that team, which kind of defeats the whole point but I digress.

Now because I have accepted this.. My theory here WAS that an actual point guard would have been able to get Paolo into better spots positionally so that scoring would come easier. Being able to catch and shoot or run actions to get him easier looks at the basket always made more sense to me than giving him a huge lane and watching him attempt to back down players into difficult shots. This comes at the expense of a more fluid ball movement system. Instead, guys stand around waiting to him to kick the ball their way. It just makes the offense either entirely predictable or a chaotic mess underneath the basket.

I've argued with others outside of this board, or other Magic echo chambers, about the best possible development arch for Paolo. Ultimately, I've come down to the idea that he just doesn't produce efficient enough offense on-ball the way he wants to in a half court. He's not relevant enough off-ball within this current system to matter. He needs the ball in his hands. Getting a playmaking point guard alleviates that reality, as well as a competent coach that knows how to draw things up for him within a real working system. Franz must be doing a lot more off-ball for this tandem to work the way Weltman wants it to and even then, it comes down to stretching the floor.

Well thats not happening now. We have now seen 3 or 4 iterations of various dual guard lineups. AB/Suggs , Gary/Suggs, Suggs/KCP, and Suggs/Bane soon. None of those combinations address the above concerns. They aren't playmakers that can build a system with those guys. They place those responsibilities at the feet of Paolo and Franz and enable them to do exactly what I don't think is effective basketball. Franz Wagner is kind of the X factor here because he can become a guy that plays more off-ball than he would probably like, while he can also develop better playmaking skills. To what degree is the question.

tldr; Bane is a good acquisition but I dont think it changes how things are run.

Nothing this front office does will ever make sense to you until you accept that the North Star for this team is a wing-hub offense built around Paolo and Franz. Everything every personnel move, every spacing bet, every ballhandling delegation stems from that vision. If you’re holding out for some traditional point guard to come in and reroute the offense, you’re misreading the entire blueprint. The bet is on jumbo creators. That’s the foundation, not a flaw.

[drsd]

Nothing this front office does will ever make sense to you until you accept that the North Star for this team is a wing-hub offense built around Paolo and Franz. Everything every personnel move, every spacing bet, every ballhandling delegation stems from that vision. If you’re holding out for some traditional point guard to come in and reroute the offense, you’re misreading the entire blueprint. The bet is on jumbo creators. That’s the foundation, not a flaw.

And-2

WHen some her say,. "Orlando still needs a PG", I fear such fans don't get the point of this offense. F-Wagner and Banchero are the primary ball handlers.

That said, using Suggs and Bane in PnRs with F-Wagner and Banchero will lead to a huge increase in eFG% efficiency.

And here's hoping that the Magic can climb to above 34% from three as a team, please.

[drsd]

Gonna be interesting how they play this.

The year 1 salary for the 25th pick ($2.9M) puts them back above the first apron.

And if my ability to add is correct, they have 12 players currently, not 13.

They had 15. Traded 2 for 1 in the Bane deal bringing them down to 14 and then declined two options bringing them down to 12.

The 193,385,297 current salary line includes the 2.9M rookie. No worries!

As to number of current players; it's 13
1 Franz Wagner
2 Desmond Bane
3 Jalen Suggs
4 Paolo Banchero
5 Jonathan Isaac
6 Wendell Carter
7 Goga Bitadze
8 Anthony Black
9 Jett Howard
10 Tristan da Silva
11 Mr #25
12 Moritz Wagner
13 Caleb Houstan

[cedric76]

Retaining Moe at the full $11M would be a shocker and probably signal a Goga or Isaac trade for sure.

They won't pick Moe s option, they ll offer him a lower contract

As for Jett, from Jeff s presser it seems that he expect Jett to be on the team next season

We ll have the mle but my not use it (or partly use it)

[Horcy]

As long as days keep going, I feel more happy and confident about this trade.
Can't believe people are actually complaining, especially with our horrendous history of wasting picks. This guy is a reality. Period.

Orlando recently signed to max deals three rookies we just selected.
We also have Black, Howard, Houstan... come on.

We were needing a guy like Bane to take it to the next level.
You can build a contender with draft picks, but that stage is over; we've already done it.

We need to move forward, and that stage is adding the necessary pieces.
This trade is an absolute W.

[fendilim]

As long as days keep going, I feel more happy and confident about this trade.
Can't believe people are actually complaining, especially with our horrendous history of wasting picks. This guy is a reality. Period.

Orlando recently signed to max deals three rookies we just selected.
We also have Black, Howard, Houstan... come on.

We were needing a guy like Bane to take it to the next level.
You can build a contender with draft picks, but that stage is over; we've already done it.

We need to move forward, and that stage is adding the necessary pieces.
This trade is an absolute W.

I agree, and this is probably the last opportunity to make a trade without really mortgaging our future. And we get to keep our young players too.

We have 2 1sts this year, the pick next year is enticing as it sounds, but we don’t know what the future holds for the Suns. Then 28 and 30 may actually be late 1sts. I doubt the Grizzlies do pick swap on 29, tbh.

[drsd]

Retaining Moe at the full $11M would be a shocker and probably signal a Goga or Isaac trade for sure.

There are at least 8 reasons I agree with you!

[SloNick Russia]

I don't get why Magic fans are still waiting for WCJ trade after Boston series, WCJ is versitile C you can actually play vs small ball teams. Goga for example can't guard in space and was immidiately targeted.
There is a reason why WCJ has value. GMs look not only at flat stats like fans do.
Wish WCJ can get his 3 point % back next season, but he should be on a team regardless.
JI had a bad year, but Weltman didn't construct his deal to pay him 25M last season to let another team run his awsome defensive value at 14M per season cost. They will attempt to get his weight and conditioning back this summer to get back his 2024-25 impact which is a smart thing to do. JI is a game changer on defense.
Goga is probably traded at some point, but we need a C prospect to replace him for less money.

Sent from my SM-S928B using RealGM mobile app

[Optimus_Steel]

Seeing videos of Bane walking around the practice facility... dude looks happy as hell to get away from the headaches in Memphis

NGL, he looks pretty damm happy.

[Optimus_Steel]

Hey guys I think I found the stupidest guy on the planet!

Read on Twitter

Wow


The only difference…and better D….

[VFX]

I thought about what you and pepe said and Bane and his role.
We were and are in the same boat regarding a need for lead ball handler. Where we differ i guess is you think we should keep PB while adding lead ball handler while i think we can trade Banchero for a lead ball handler or build around him with more scoring oriented guard.
I just dont think adding a lead ball handler to Franz, Paolo and Jalen makes that much sense. We would pay two max contracts for off ball players ? So what we need from our guard ? 1. Shooting 2. Being able to perform pick and roll becouse it doesnt work well between Franz and Paolo 3. Making smart decisive decisions moving the ball 4. Not being a weak link defensively.
You can argue Bane is just good not elite in pick and roll and i get that but other options were Fox who wanted to play for Spurs is on the last year of his contract and will want a mx himself. Morant who is not for trade, small and not good shooter. Lillard who is old and injured. Curry who is not for trade. Maxey not for trade. Young small and expensive. Like what is the alternative ?
Even if we wanted to trade Banchero who is worth it and available ? SGA not. Haliburton not. Brunson not worth it. Curry old. Cunningham not.

Bane is propably good enough to relieve some pressure from them. Can be involved in pnr, hand offs, running off the screen. When we bank on PB and FW he just makes sense while not pretending to be a lead ball handler. (and he doesnt have to)

If things go south and both Paolo and Franz stagnate than we can trade one of them for a chance at better lead ball handler. We will recharge our picks just as Banchero enters his 27 year on this planet. Until then we can try with different iterations. We can trade Suggs. We can experiment with different centers.

tldr we can still be contenders while Bane is not a lead ball handler.

I'm going to respond to this post even though I know not many want to read a wall of text.

Anyway, you candidly brought up some sacred cows so here it goes.

I'm not a huge fan of Paolo Banchero. I don't like his game. I don't like traditional power forwards that aren't either terrific defenders OR don't stretch the floor reliably. He does neither. I also just don't like face up iso forwards that are not great finishers, effort rebounders, or both. Non versatile Power Forwards in my mind are basically a utility position unless they either possess all of the aforementioned abilities or are unstoppable scorers.

There are like 8 or 9 guys that are traditional non-versatile power forwards that are actually elite league wide (Giannis, AD, Sabonis, Mobely, JJJ, Siakam, Lauri) others are either multi positional as Centers or Small Forwards. I felt the same exact way about Aaron Gordon throughout the duration of his time here. Turns out he's a 3rd/4th option utility guy, which is exactly what I thought he was based on his skillset.

With Paolo he's basically all of those things I dislike. I said this since his days at Duke and despite all that I thought he was the best selection and fit for us in the draft at #1.

ANYWAY NOW with all that being said and getting to the crux of the discussion...

Orlando is not willingly going to trade him. I've just accepted that he is part of the future and Weltman's grand plan of position-less forwards and a defensive back court emulating Boston's blueprint MINUS the ability for either of them to shoot as well as that team, which kind of defeats the whole point but I digress.

Now because I have accepted this.. My theory here WAS that an actual point guard would have been able to get Paolo into better spots positionally so that scoring would come easier. Being able to catch and shoot or run actions to get him easier looks at the basket always made more sense to me than giving him a huge lane and watching him attempt to back down players into difficult shots. This comes at the expense of a more fluid ball movement system. Instead, guys stand around waiting to him to kick the ball their way. It just makes the offense either entirely predictable or a chaotic mess underneath the basket.

I've argued with others outside of this board, or other Magic echo chambers, about the best possible development arch for Paolo. Ultimately, I've come down to the idea that he just doesn't produce efficient enough offense on-ball the way he wants to in a half court. He's not relevant enough off-ball within this current system to matter. He needs the ball in his hands. Getting a playmaking point guard alleviates that reality, as well as a competent coach that knows how to draw things up for him within a real working system. Franz must be doing a lot more off-ball for this tandem to work the way Weltman wants it to and even then, it comes down to stretching the floor.

Well thats not happening now. We have now seen 3 or 4 iterations of various dual guard lineups. AB/Suggs , Gary/Suggs, Suggs/KCP, and Suggs/Bane soon. None of those combinations address the above concerns. They aren't playmakers that can build a system with those guys. They place those responsibilities at the feet of Paolo and Franz and enable them to do exactly what I don't think is effective basketball. Franz Wagner is kind of the X factor here because he can become a guy that plays more off-ball than he would probably like, while he can also develop better playmaking skills. To what degree is the question.

tldr; Bane is a good acquisition but I dont think it changes how things are run.

Nothing this front office does will ever make sense to you until you accept that the North Star for this team is a wing-hub offense built around Paolo and Franz. Everything every personnel move, every spacing bet, every ballhandling delegation stems from that vision. If you’re holding out for some traditional point guard to come in and reroute the offense, you’re misreading the entire blueprint. The bet is on jumbo creators. That’s the foundation, not a flaw.

No, it actually does make sense to me.

I just fundamentally disagree with it. The skillset isn’t there for it to be valid outside of some hyper idealized theory. If Paolo was LeBron James or Magic Johnson I’d be able to squint and see it probably. He’s not. Franz Wagner is a 6’10 Ginobli, which is an amazing player, but that doesn’t mean he’s Rubio or Nash out there running an offense.

This is all theoretical at this point. YOU buy this idea. I don’t. You believe that what you have seen from Paolo up to this point, 3 full years now +1 at Duke, says that he’s a “jumbo playmaker” that doesn’t need a point guard to get better shots offensively.Yeah, maybe if you think being a playmaker comes down to isolation crossovers in the paint or exceedingly difficult fadeaway jumpers over shorter defenders.

Tatum is the more modernized ideal version of Paolo and HE has had Kyrie Irving, Kemba, Brogdon, and Jrue Holiday next to him his entire career. Paolo is a player archetype from the early 00’s like a better, bigger, more fluid version of Carlos Boozer but without Deron Williams getting him easy looks for a decade. Cool, I think? Let’s build an entire system around that guy for 10-12 years I guess. Even a bigger bulkier Carmelo Anthony isn’t really a “jumbo playmaker” in any other way outside of getting himself shots on offense.

I’ve come to accept this is just what it is after this trade. I’m still a Magic fan. I just don’t believe Paolo or Franz are “playmakers” enough to mitigate what I’ve seen with my eyes on offense here. They are great scorers but not capable of “running” an offense without a pace setting guard. That’s just reality. Now if you want to believe the secret ingredient to this is adding more shooting I can buy that and Bane absolutely does that. If you want to argue Jalen Suggs WILL become that point guard, then fine.

Shooting was a symptom from a larger issue. Shooting wasn’t the entire problem. Because I have eyes and I’m not just looking at box scores to make these determinations.

[VFX]

Seeing videos of Bane walking around the practice facility... dude looks happy as hell to get away from the headaches in Memphis

NGL, he looks pretty damm happy.

I’d be happy too coming from Memphis

[yoyojw17]

I'm going to respond to this post even though I know not many want to read a wall of text.

Anyway, you candidly brought up some sacred cows so here it goes.

I'm not a huge fan of Paolo Banchero. I don't like his game. I don't like traditional power forwards that aren't either terrific defenders OR don't stretch the floor reliably. He does neither. I also just don't like face up iso forwards that are not great finishers, effort rebounders, or both. Non versatile Power Forwards in my mind are basically a utility position unless they either possess all of the aforementioned abilities or are unstoppable scorers.

There are like 8 or 9 guys that are traditional non-versatile power forwards that are actually elite league wide (Giannis, AD, Sabonis, Mobely, JJJ, Siakam, Lauri) others are either multi positional as Centers or Small Forwards. I felt the same exact way about Aaron Gordon throughout the duration of his time here. Turns out he's a 3rd/4th option utility guy, which is exactly what I thought he was based on his skillset.

With Paolo he's basically all of those things I dislike. I said this since his days at Duke and despite all that I thought he was the best selection and fit for us in the draft at #1.

ANYWAY NOW with all that being said and getting to the crux of the discussion...

Orlando is not willingly going to trade him. I've just accepted that he is part of the future and Weltman's grand plan of position-less forwards and a defensive back court emulating Boston's blueprint MINUS the ability for either of them to shoot as well as that team, which kind of defeats the whole point but I digress.

Now because I have accepted this.. My theory here WAS that an actual point guard would have been able to get Paolo into better spots positionally so that scoring would come easier. Being able to catch and shoot or run actions to get him easier looks at the basket always made more sense to me than giving him a huge lane and watching him attempt to back down players into difficult shots. This comes at the expense of a more fluid ball movement system. Instead, guys stand around waiting to him to kick the ball their way. It just makes the offense either entirely predictable or a chaotic mess underneath the basket.

I've argued with others outside of this board, or other Magic echo chambers, about the best possible development arch for Paolo. Ultimately, I've come down to the idea that he just doesn't produce efficient enough offense on-ball the way he wants to in a half court. He's not relevant enough off-ball within this current system to matter. He needs the ball in his hands. Getting a playmaking point guard alleviates that reality, as well as a competent coach that knows how to draw things up for him within a real working system. Franz must be doing a lot more off-ball for this tandem to work the way Weltman wants it to and even then, it comes down to stretching the floor.

Well thats not happening now. We have now seen 3 or 4 iterations of various dual guard lineups. AB/Suggs , Gary/Suggs, Suggs/KCP, and Suggs/Bane soon. None of those combinations address the above concerns. They aren't playmakers that can build a system with those guys. They place those responsibilities at the feet of Paolo and Franz and enable them to do exactly what I don't think is effective basketball. Franz Wagner is kind of the X factor here because he can become a guy that plays more off-ball than he would probably like, while he can also develop better playmaking skills. To what degree is the question.

tldr; Bane is a good acquisition but I dont think it changes how things are run.

Nothing this front office does will ever make sense to you until you accept that the North Star for this team is a wing-hub offense built around Paolo and Franz. Everything every personnel move, every spacing bet, every ballhandling delegation stems from that vision. If you’re holding out for some traditional point guard to come in and reroute the offense, you’re misreading the entire blueprint. The bet is on jumbo creators. That’s the foundation, not a flaw.

No, it actually does make sense to me.

I just fundamentally disagree with it. The skillset isn’t there for it to make sense. If Paolo was LeBron James or Magic Johnson I’d be able to squint and see it probably. He’s not. Franz Wagner is a 6’10 Ginobli, which is an amazing player, but that doesn’t mean he’s Rubio or Nash out there running an offense.

This is all theoretical at this point. YOU buy this idea. I don’t. You believe that what you have seen from Paolo up to this point, 3 full years now, says that he’s a “jumbo playmaker” that doesn’t need a point guard to get better shots offensively.

You think being a playmaker comes down to isolation crossovers in the paint or exceedingly difficult fadeaway jumpers over shorter defenders. Tatum is the more modernized ideal version of Paolo and HE has had Kyrie Irving, Kemba, Brogdon, and Jrue Holiday next to him his entire career. Paolo is a player archetype from the early 00’s like a better, bigger, more fluid version of Carlos Boozer but without Deron Williams getting him easy looks for a decade. Cool, I think? Let’s build an entire system around that guy for 10-12 years I guess. Even a bigger bulkier Carmelo Anthony isn’t really a “jumbo playmaker” in any other way outside of getting himself shots on offense.

I’ve come to accept this is just what it is after this trade. I’m still a Magic fan. I just don’t believe Paolo or Franz are “playmakers” enough to mitigate what I’ve seen with my eyes on offense here. They are great scorers but not capable of “running” an offense without a pace setting guard. That’s just reality. Now if you want to believe the secret ingredient to this is adding more shooting I can buy that and Bane absolutely does that. Shooting isn’t what I saw was the entire problem though. Because I have eyes and I’m not just looking at box scores to make these determinations.

Praying that they do a deep dive into a new offensive coach. Proper ball and player movement can become the difference maker that gets the defense off balance and eventually gets Franz and Paolo those easy looks. The days of waiting at the top of the key and always trying to break their man down should be over. Everyone in the starting lineup is a capable passer.... Just have to implement it.

Not sure exactly what they think of Black.... But if they don't make a move for a playmaker.... Then I guess they are all about him at PG.

But yup.... I do agree that we should have a more traditional point guard on the roater.... For situations especially like last year. Hope that is something that they rectify.

[eyriq]

I'm going to respond to this post even though I know not many want to read a wall of text.

Anyway, you candidly brought up some sacred cows so here it goes.

I'm not a huge fan of Paolo Banchero. I don't like his game. I don't like traditional power forwards that aren't either terrific defenders OR don't stretch the floor reliably. He does neither. I also just don't like face up iso forwards that are not great finishers, effort rebounders, or both. Non versatile Power Forwards in my mind are basically a utility position unless they either possess all of the aforementioned abilities or are unstoppable scorers.

There are like 8 or 9 guys that are traditional non-versatile power forwards that are actually elite league wide (Giannis, AD, Sabonis, Mobely, JJJ, Siakam, Lauri) others are either multi positional as Centers or Small Forwards. I felt the same exact way about Aaron Gordon throughout the duration of his time here. Turns out he's a 3rd/4th option utility guy, which is exactly what I thought he was based on his skillset.

With Paolo he's basically all of those things I dislike. I said this since his days at Duke and despite all that I thought he was the best selection and fit for us in the draft at #1.

ANYWAY NOW with all that being said and getting to the crux of the discussion...

Orlando is not willingly going to trade him. I've just accepted that he is part of the future and Weltman's grand plan of position-less forwards and a defensive back court emulating Boston's blueprint MINUS the ability for either of them to shoot as well as that team, which kind of defeats the whole point but I digress.

Now because I have accepted this.. My theory here WAS that an actual point guard would have been able to get Paolo into better spots positionally so that scoring would come easier. Being able to catch and shoot or run actions to get him easier looks at the basket always made more sense to me than giving him a huge lane and watching him attempt to back down players into difficult shots. This comes at the expense of a more fluid ball movement system. Instead, guys stand around waiting to him to kick the ball their way. It just makes the offense either entirely predictable or a chaotic mess underneath the basket.

I've argued with others outside of this board, or other Magic echo chambers, about the best possible development arch for Paolo. Ultimately, I've come down to the idea that he just doesn't produce efficient enough offense on-ball the way he wants to in a half court. He's not relevant enough off-ball within this current system to matter. He needs the ball in his hands. Getting a playmaking point guard alleviates that reality, as well as a competent coach that knows how to draw things up for him within a real working system. Franz must be doing a lot more off-ball for this tandem to work the way Weltman wants it to and even then, it comes down to stretching the floor.

Well thats not happening now. We have now seen 3 or 4 iterations of various dual guard lineups. AB/Suggs , Gary/Suggs, Suggs/KCP, and Suggs/Bane soon. None of those combinations address the above concerns. They aren't playmakers that can build a system with those guys. They place those responsibilities at the feet of Paolo and Franz and enable them to do exactly what I don't think is effective basketball. Franz Wagner is kind of the X factor here because he can become a guy that plays more off-ball than he would probably like, while he can also develop better playmaking skills. To what degree is the question.

tldr; Bane is a good acquisition but I dont think it changes how things are run.

Nothing this front office does will ever make sense to you until you accept that the North Star for this team is a wing-hub offense built around Paolo and Franz. Everything every personnel move, every spacing bet, every ballhandling delegation stems from that vision. If you’re holding out for some traditional point guard to come in and reroute the offense, you’re misreading the entire blueprint. The bet is on jumbo creators. That’s the foundation, not a flaw.

No, it actually does make sense to me.

I just fundamentally disagree with it. The skillset isn’t there for it to be valid outside of some hyper idealized theory. If Paolo was LeBron James or Magic Johnson I’d be able to squint and see it probably. He’s not. Franz Wagner is a 6’10 Ginobli, which is an amazing player, but that doesn’t mean he’s Rubio or Nash out there running an offense.

This is all theoretical at this point. YOU buy this idea. I don’t. You believe that what you have seen from Paolo up to this point, 3 full years now +1 at Duke, says that he’s a “jumbo playmaker” that doesn’t need a point guard to get better shots offensively.Yeah, maybe if you think being a playmaker comes down to isolation crossovers in the paint or exceedingly difficult fadeaway jumpers over shorter defenders.

Tatum is the more modernized ideal version of Paolo and HE has had Kyrie Irving, Kemba, Brogdon, and Jrue Holiday next to him his entire career. Paolo is a player archetype from the early 00’s like a better, bigger, more fluid version of Carlos Boozer but without Deron Williams getting him easy looks for a decade. Cool, I think? Let’s build an entire system around that guy for 10-12 years I guess. Even a bigger bulkier Carmelo Anthony isn’t really a “jumbo playmaker” in any other way outside of getting himself shots on offense.

I’ve come to accept this is just what it is after this trade. I’m still a Magic fan. I just don’t believe Paolo or Franz are “playmakers” enough to mitigate what I’ve seen with my eyes on offense here. They are great scorers but not capable of “running” an offense without a pace setting guard. That’s just reality. Now if you want to believe the secret ingredient to this is adding more shooting I can buy that and Bane absolutely does that. Shooting isn’t what I saw was the entire problem though. Because I have eyes and I’m not just looking at box scores to make these determinations.

You're assuming Paolo and Franz are finished products, but they've been developing in some of the worst spacing in the league. The offense looked clunky not because jumbo creators can’t work, but because the spacing was poor and playmaking takes time to develop.

Adding Bane isn’t just about shooting. It’s about creating the right conditions for young stars to become better decision-makers. We’re not building around what they are now. We’re investing in what they’re becoming.

[Knightro]

Seeing videos of Bane walking around the practice facility... dude looks happy as hell to get away from the headaches in Memphis

Memphis allegedly has one of the worst practice and training facilities in the NBA.

And Orlando has one of the newest and best, so I’m sure that was a fun experience for him to walk into for the first time.