How would moses malone work in today nba?

[70sFan]

which moments are those?

Games like the last one vs Celtics. Not only he shot poorly but he basically stopped trying.

seems a bit nitpicky? is a regular season game that was already lost

i get the criticism, but doesnt seem like a huge deal all thinghs considered

Could be nitpicky, but we're comparing him to top 10 center ever at his peak.

[FrodoBaggins]

Moses strikes me as the type of player who'd benefit from the increase in opportunistic finishes due to modern spacing. Seems like the screen, roll, & cut game would be right up his alley. Offensive rebounding is still incredibly valuable, especially when it's strategically prioritized like HOU this season. Having Moses would be like having Steven Adams-level ORB% out there for 36+ mpg. Adams has had a 20.8 ORB% over his last RS 100 games. But he's only played 19.3 mpg, which limits the value from his ORB impact. Imagine if you could play him twice as long.

I could see Moses' play type breakdown look similar to Anthony Davis. Heavy on the off-ball opportunistic finishes with some healthy post-up volume thrown in. More putbacks, for sure. Higher FTr.



That's 13.5 opportunistic finishes poss/g amounting to around 16.7 ppg/1.24 ppp. Moses' high motor & work capacity could see him reach closer to 20.0 ppg. Not necessarily more or less efficient, just more productive.

[One_and_Done]

His game would suffer a fair bit. His player type basically doesn't exist anymore. He's a 5 who doesn't protect the rim or shoot 3s, isn't especially mobile, and wants to live under the basket like an 80s power forward.

[penbeast0]

I think in today's game, his trainers would avoid putting the extra mass on him. I see him as a healthy Zion Williamson type with less court vision. To the extent that Zion can still be a good player today with his game, so could Moses, but you'd have to believe in him and build around him. The fact that he was the most talked about high schooler of his decade (although he took a couple of years to adjust to playing with full grown men) would probably give him the opportunity and most likely a team that would try to build a lineup that would work with him. If so, he could be healthy Zion, or, he could be Andre Drummond.

[FrodoBaggins]

I think in today's game, his trainers would avoid putting the extra mass on him. I see him as a healthy Zion Williamson type with less court vision. To the extent that Zion can still be a good player today with his game, so could Moses, but you'd have to believe in him and build around him. The fact that he was the most talked about high schooler of his decade (although he took a couple of years to adjust to playing with full grown men) would probably give him the opportunity and most likely a team that would try to build a lineup that would work with him. If so, he could be healthy Zion, or, he could be Andre Drummond.

Does Moses have the ball handling and coordination to play from the perimeter, taking guys off the dribble in isolation & running PnR as the ball handler?

[One_and_Done]

If you look at say the Pacers, and were to switch out Turner with Moses, the Pacers would be a worse team. I don't mean to say Turner is a better player than Moses, but today's optimised NBA is not the NBA Moses excelled in. His limitations would make him a much worse player today. He'd be a tough fit to build around too.

[tsherkin]

One thing that is often overlooked in such hypotheticals are intangibles. Moses was extremely hard working young man at the beginning of his career. He wasn't versatile player and he had physical limitations (undersized, small hands, not very explosive athlete),

So this part is old, but small hands didn't appear to be his issue at all. Even in the clip provided in your original post, he one-handed a rebound, palmed the ball, looked up court and made the pass.

He's an interesting one to consider.

One_and_Done made a good point about how Moses basically lived in the golden triangle, right? He had some range for a big of his area. Like 15-ish feet. Baseline face-up (nice little banker from the left, too), FT line jumper, etc. It was a bit slow, and he brought the ball up down low lot of the times in his shooting motion (like to his waist), which was weird and left him a little vulnerable to fast hands. By Philly, he had a bit more range.

Limited rim protection, not really stunning laterally. Not the greatest passer I've ever seen, but you can see him play post/re-post well enough when it was the same corner as he was posting in, which is something. And he certainly knew how to set a screen.

Moses strikes me as the type of player who'd benefit from the increase in opportunistic finishes due to modern spacing. Seems like the screen, roll, & cut game would be right up his alley. Offensive rebounding is still incredibly valuable, especially when it's strategically prioritized like HOU this season. Having Moses would be like having Steven Adams-level ORB% out there for 36+ mpg. Adams has had a 20.8 ORB% over his last RS 100 games. But he's only played 19.3 mpg, which limits the value from his ORB impact. Imagine if you could play him twice as long.

I could see Moses' play type breakdown look similar to Anthony Davis. Heavy on the off-ball opportunistic finishes with some healthy post-up volume thrown in. More putbacks, for sure. Higher FTr.

Yeah, this is a pretty solid notion in my head. If you leave him on the court long enough, then he's going to produce effort points. Moses had no fear of garbage buckets, after all. He had motor and will, and he had limited pretensions about isolation. Like, he could and did take those baseline isos, but he was all about the offensive glass.

Post D, not a problem. Dude was STRONG, and went up against some giants in his heyday just fine. Mobile defense against more advanced PnR than he saw in most of his relevant time, though, that's a different story. So the question becomes, is he worth it to keep on the floor as a limited help defender who doesn't pass much and can't hit 3s?

To be fair, as 70sFan noted earlier, Moses improved on D later. Perhaps roster context, coaching and so forth are worth considering. He was never going to be Hakeem or anything like that, but he could potentially be more tolerable in today's environment. Again, dude wasn't afraid of work, and he was not entirely as psychotic as Rodman about rebounding relative to good defensive principles.

And as Frodo notes, there's a lot of differences in spacing today... and in approach to offensive rebounding. So it could be one of those competitive advantage situations, right? Offensive rebounding is still valuable; teams lean away from it to protect in transition, but they're still sending one guy. If that one guy is Moses, well, there are few others in league history I'd want being my one guy crashing the O-boards, you know?

Stylistically, he doesn't feel like a guy you want to run tons of intentional possessions through in today's environment. But if you get him moving around in actions and stuff, working off-ball, then he becomes a pressure release on various plays, set up for easier looks... sucking in a defender who doesn't want to leave him an inch to work with because if that shot misses...

He'd be really good today.

I think you probably live with him not being an amazing rim protector because he adds possession control with his offensive rebounding, which helps kill transition offense against you. And he'd be highly efficient. So I think there's that trade-off. Like, Jokic isn't a particularly amazing defender, but it works out for Denver most of the time. Obviously, massive difference in offense between the two, but you can build a contending team with such a player. He can step out enough to clear the lane, he can slither around off-ball, he's individually efficient, he can hit the defensive boards on the other side, you'll have a bear of a time against him individually.

Interesting dude to consider, no doubt.

[tsherkin]

If you look at say the Pacers, and were to switch out Turner with Moses, the Pacers would be a worse team. I don't mean to say Turner is a better player than Moses, but today's optimised NBA is not the NBA Moses excelled in. His limitations would make him a much worse player today. He'd be a tough fit to build around too.

Is that the case, though?

I mean, you jack up their possession control, skyrocket their draw rate and start using him as a lob threat and all that, it might trade off. Spacing is nice from your 5, but they have tons of shooters to begin with. You get a guy like Moses in there cleaning up their mistakes, it might make up for that difference, or more.

[penbeast0]

Does Moses have the ball handling and coordination to play from the perimeter, taking guys off the dribble in isolation & running PnR as the ball handler?

Far as I remember, his dribbling and passing skills were very rudimentary. Might be a good roll man, but not the ball handler type and never struck me as high IQ decision maker either. Great banger, athletic quick leaper, hard worker, but if I had to pick 20 centers from his era to use as a ball handler and playmaker, he wouldn't be even an afterthought.

[kcktiny]

He's a 5 who doesn't protect the rim

Whoa! What?

Do you even know who Moses Malone was? He was named NBA all-defensive 1st team in 1982-83 when Philly was just the 5th best defensive team in the league, allowed the 4th lowest opponent 2pt FG% at just 46.9%, was 6th among Cs in blocked shots with 157.

If he wasn't protecting the rim just what was he protecting such that he was named all-defensive 1st team?

His 6 seasons with Houston he was 7th among all Cs in blocks - only Jabbar, George Johnson, Rollins, Gilmore, Parish, and Caldwell Jones had more.

...isn't especially mobile

Nobody - I repeat nobody - had quicker post moves than Malone. He played 6 seasons for the Rockets and he was unstoppable inside because he was so cat-quick in his post game. He had the quickest (and longest) drop-step of anyone. He wasn't flying down the lane with air-drop dunks nor did he have a Kareem hook (he did have a semi-hook shot though), but his moves were so quick he could get around anyone at anytime.

There's a reason why he drew sooo many fouls. His 6 seasons with the Rockets he averaged almost 9 FTAs per game.

Watch him go after offensive rebounds - he was relentless and quicker than anyone going after he ball.

Wasn't mobile?? Geez oh pete go watch some film and educate yourself:

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[tsherkin]

Whoa! What?

Do you even know who Moses Malone was? He was named NBA all-defensive 1st team in 1982-83 when Philly was just the 5th best defensive team in the league, allowed the 4th lowest opponent 2pt FG% at just 46.9%, was 6th among Cs in blocked shots with 157.

He topped out at 2 bpg back in an age of volume shot blockers. I suspect his total games played had more to do with that ranking than anything else. He was a 1.6 bpg guy in Houston and 1.3 in Philly, after all.

He was known a lot more for his man-up post defense than for his mobile rim protection. n, Rollins, Gilmore, Parish, and Caldwell Jones had more.

[quote
Nobody - I repeat nobody - had quicker post moves than Malone.
[/quote]

That is definitely false. Also, doesn't have a lot to do with athleticism. McHale, but especially Olajuwon, also had very fast post moves. And McHale wasn't exactly lightning quick, though mobile.

Moses wasn't unathletic but he was not super explosive compared to the top athletes in the frontcourt even then. He was, however, EXTREMELY strong and had excellent anticipation. His post moves were pretty rudimentary.

Like, compare him to Olajuwon and it isn't even close athletically, which I suspect was the main point. And if you get him outside of the paint, that mobility gap becomes a lot clearer, and that's really what this discussion is about: lateral movement to cover PnR action when switched out onto a perimeter player.

[xb3at band1tx]

He'd be well behind Jokic and Embiid. They're both bigger and far more talented.

I'd have Moses over Embiid cause of durability but I know what you mean

[kcktiny]

He topped out at 2 bpg back in an age of volume shot blockers.

Guess again. His first season in the NBA he was at 2.3 bs/g playing just 31 min/g. He blocked 181 shots that season, 5th most by a C that season.

This statement was made:

He's a 5 who doesn't protect the rim

You care to stick up for this individual who clearly does not know his NBA history? Tell you what - what don't you list for us all the other Cs that blocked 181 shots in a season and tell us how they're "...a 5 who doesn't protect the rim...".

Or how Malone blocked 157 shots in 1982-83 and was named NBA all-defensive 1st team - but didn't protect the rim.

Just clueless.

I suspect his total games played had more to do with that ranking than anything else.

Blocked shots are blocked shots. The more the merrier for your defense.

He was known a lot more for his man-up post defense than for his mobile rim protection.

Correct. But he was very mobile, especially when young, and offered rim protection far more than "...a 5 who doesn't protect the rim...".

You want a C from back then that played when Moses did for the Rockets that did not offer rim protection? Think Dan Issel, or Swen Nater.

But saying Moses Malone doesn't protect the rim? That's just pure ignorance by someone who does not know their NBA history - but likes to think he does.

That is definitely false. Also, doesn't have a lot to do with athleticism.

You too can learn from watching a few games of a young Moses Malone played in. He was very athletic.

McHale, but especially Olajuwon, also had very fast post moves.

Yes they did. As quick as Malone.

and McHale wasn't exactly lightning quick

Guard him much did you?

The guy had more counter moves than almost anyone, at just the right speed to fool his opponents time and time again. They all knew they were coming, and couldn't stop him.

Moses wasn't unathletic but he was not super explosive compared to the top athletes in the frontcourt even then.

No? Watch him much did you? He was explosive enough.

His first 7 years in the league grabbed 3454 off rebs, no one else had even 2000. Guess he got those just because he played more minutes than everyone and they just fell to him, right?

It takes a very athletic - and quick - C to grab 1500+ more offensive rebounds than any other NBA player over a 7 year period.

He was, however, EXTREMELY strong and had excellent anticipation.

Correct.

His post moves were pretty rudimentary.

One of the greatest post players ever, and this is how you describe him. Rudimentary. So rudimentary that he was able to foul out opposing Cs better than pretty much all other Cs.

I suggest you watch more film of him.

Like, compare him to Olajuwon and it isn't even close athletically,

Says who, you? Go watch Malone from the 70s.

And if you get him outside of the paint, that mobility gap becomes a lot clearer, and that's really what this discussion is about: lateral movement to cover PnR action when switched out onto a perimeter player.

Such an expert. Malone was all-defensive 2nd team in 1978-79, all defensive 1st team in 1982-83.

Yet here you are some 4+ decades later telling us how he wasn't very athletic and couldn't switch onto smaller players.

Again - go watch some film of a young Moses Malone. He was a joy to watch as an NBA C and you really might learn something. Go watch some of his battles with Jabbar, or Walton, or Gilmore, or Parish.

[tsherkin]

He topped out at 2 bpg back in an age of volume shot blockers.

Guess again. His first season in the NBA he was at 2.3 bs/g playing just 31 min/g. He blocked 181 shots that season, 5th most by a C that season.

OOOOOH, you got me by 0.2 bpg! lol You understand that this doesn't change anything, right? Moses has 2 seasons of 2+ bpg in his entire NBA career, and only one of 2+ BLK36. He just predominantly wasn't that kind of player in the NBA, and he didn't build that reputation out of nowhere.

Blocked shots are blocked shots. The more the merrier for your defense.

Well, no. If you're looking at aggregate total, it describes a different thing than his rate stat.

Correct. But he was very mobile, especially when young, and offered rim protection far more than "...a 5 who doesn't protect the rim...".

Yeah, I mean, he wasn't useless, but he wasn't any kind of consistent rim protector, particularly after that first season. It was well noted over his career, compared to his peers.

You too can learn from watching a few games of a young Moses Malone played in. He was very athletic.

I've watched plenty of Moses, thank you very much. He was okay (relative to the NBA, obviously), but he certainly wasn't an elite athlete.

Yes they did. As quick as Malone.

Quicker, certainly with Olajuwon.

Guard him much did you?

This isn't an intelligent comment, and I think you know that.

The guy had more counter moves than almost anyone, at just the right speed to fool his opponents time and time again. They all knew they were coming, and couldn't stop him.

That isn't a description of athleticism, though, so it's irrelevant.

No? Watch him much did you? He was explosive enough.

That isn't the contention here. He was athletic enough, just not "very athletic" relative to his positional peers.

His first 7 years in the league grabbed 3454 off rebs, no one else had even 2000. Guess he got those just because he played more minutes than everyone and they just fell to him, right?

Anticipation, strength, relentless effort... There's a lot more to it than just athleticism. That's why there are tons of hyper-athletic guys every year who don't replicate what he did. Are you planning on at some point arguing in good faith, or are you gonna stick with these strawmen?

One of the greatest post players ever, and this is how you describe him. Rudimentary. So rudimentary that he was able to foul out opposing Cs better than pretty much all other Cs.

I mean, there isn't a sane argument calling him "one of the greatest post players ever."

He was a very good offensive rebounder who had a nice face-up jumper and could muscle his way to the rim. He had a reasonable set of basic post moves. He was considerably worse than McHale, he wasn't as polished as team. Al Jefferson was a better post player, but not as powerful or as aggressive bulling to the basket. Like, it isn't really a defensible platform that Moses was this awesomely skillful post player.

He was a bull. Lots of guys commented on how insanely strong he was. He had decent footwork and a 15-footer, but more importantly, he didn't care: he was gonna outwork you to the ball, to the rim, whatever. That's far more important.

Says who, you? Go watch Malone from the 70s.

I did. Olajuwon embarrasses him athletically.

Such an expert. Malone was all-defensive 2nd team in 1978-79, all defensive 1st team in 1982-83.

And? This isn't a comment which proves anything. It's just derisive drivel.

I understand you want to defend your hero, and well enough, Moses was great. But you being acerbic and unpleasant doesn't strengthen your position any.

[kcktiny]

OOOOOH, you got me by 0.2 bpg! lol

Look dude, you made a statement as if factual, and you were wrong. You clearly did not know he averaged 2.3 bs/g in a season, yet spoke up like you did. Surprise.

You understand that this doesn't change anything, right?

He blocked 181 shots, but you're still sticking up for this ridiculous statement?:

He's a 5 who doesn't protect the rim

So I'll say it again - name all those Cs that blocked 181 shots in a season that were not rim protectors. You won't, because you know that statement is nonsense.

Heck, in 1982-83 he blocked 157 shots, 7th most by a C, but he doesn't protect the rim?

Talk about clueless.

He just predominantly wasn't that kind of player in the NBA

He wasn't what kind of player?

and he didn't build that reputation out of nowhere.

What reputation did he build?

From 1976-77 to 1982-83 Malone blocked 915 shots, 7th most among all Cs. So why don't you tell us - if Malone wasn't a rim protector, just exactly who was during that time?

You are acting like you know, so why don't you inform us all?

Well, no. If you're looking at aggregate total, it describes a different thing than his rate stat.

Again, since you seem to act like you know, tell us which players were rim protectors and which were not.

What defines a rim protector?

but he wasn't any kind of consistent rim protector

Yes. You have stated this - repeatedly. So what defines a rim protector?

It was well noted over his career, compared to his peers.

"It" was well known? What is "it"? And well noted by whom? Just you?

I've watched plenty of Moses, thank you very much. He was okay (relative to the NBA, obviously), but he certainly wasn't an elite athlete.

Just - dumb.

From 1978-79 to 1981-82 Malone lead the league in minutes played, scored the 2nd most total points (only Gervin scored more), grabbed more than twice as many offensive rebounds (2192) as did the player who grabbed the 2nd most (1083 Big E), while also grabbing the 2nd most defensive rebounds, lead the league in FTAs (10 FTA/g), blocked the 8th most shots among Cs.

He literally did it all. On offense, on defense, never tired.

But somehow he wasn't an elite athlete? OK, I'll bite, if he wasn't an elite athlete those 4 seasons - who was an elite athlete?

This isn't an intelligent comment, and I think you know that.

Oh right. But this that you are defending is?:

He's a 5 who doesn't protect the rim

You claim to know what is or is not a rim protector, but do not say what a rim protector is. That sounds real intelligent.

That isn't a description of athleticism, though, so it's irrelevant.

Why? Because it is you and only you that can define what athleticism is? Another real intelligent comment on your part.

He was athletic enough, just not "very athletic" relative to his positional peers.

Once again, claiming to know what athleticism is but afraid to define it.

Anticipation, strength, relentless effort... There's a lot more to it than just athleticism.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

Anticipation, strength, relentless effort - that's all part of what defines a player's athleticism.

What do you think athleticism means?

That's why there are tons of hyper-athletic guys every year who don't replicate what he did.

What is God's name does this statement have to do with anything?

Are you planning on at some point arguing in good faith

I've notice this statement in particular comes from only those who ask questions but do not answer them.

Again - (1) name all those Cs that blocked 181 shots in a season that were not rim protectors.

(2) define what a rim protector is.

(3) define what athleticism is.

And when you do not want to answer something you cannot answer, you write this:

or are you gonna stick with these strawmen?

I mean, there isn't a sane argument calling him "one of the greatest post players ever."

Malone is currently 12th all-time in scoring in the NBA (10th in NBA/ABA scoring), 4th among Cs.

Just where exactly do you think he was scoring from? Tell us all the NBA Cs that were better post scorers than Malone, that were better at drawing fouls, that sent opponents to the bench in foul trouble from his actions in the post, that made them pay for their fouling with his FT shooting.

He was a very good offensive rebounder

He is the greatest offensive rebounder the league has ever seen. Has 2,000+ more than any other player.

who had a nice face-up jumper

Yes he did.

and could muscle his way to the rim

He got to the rim in a number of ways. Using muscle, and definitely using his quickness.

He had a reasonable set of basic post moves. He was considerably worse than McHale

Really? Then why don't you tell us all what post moves McHale had that Malone didn't?

Al Jefferson was a better post player

Dumb.

Jefferson never attempted 400 FTAs in a season. And in the seasons he played 2000+ minutes averaged less than 300 FTAs.

Malone had a 12 year stretch where he averaged - averaged - 763 FTA/season.

A big part of being a great post player is getting the opposition into foul trouble and then making them pay for it at the FT line.

Very few big men were as good as Malone at drawing fouls, sending opponents to the bench, and making them pay for it. Two that were as good at drawing fouls - Shaq and Wilt - did not make the opposition pay for that fouling like Malone did. All 3 attempted 11,000+ FTAs but Malone was the far better FT shooter (77% vs. 51% and 53%). Malone scored 2400+ more points from the FT line that did Shaq or Wilt.

Olajuwon shot a better 2pt FG% than Malone did (51% vs. 49%) but never had 500 FTM in a single season. Not once.

Malone had 11 seasons with 500+ FTM, 5 seasons with 600+ FTM.

That'a called making the opposition pay. That's what's meant by great post play.

it isn't really a defensible platform that Moses was this awesomely skillful post player.

Again - dumb.

Drawing fouls in the post and making your opponents pay at the FT line is definitely a skill. And Malone was one of the very best at that - ever.

He was a bull. Lots of guys commented on how insanely strong he was.

Yes - he was strong.

He had decent footwork

He had great footwork. That's how he was able to draw so many fouls.

he was gonna outwork you to the ball

Correct. He was one of the very best at this. And he was able to because of his strength, relentlessness, and athleticism.

I did. Olajuwon embarrasses him athletically.

What is your definition of athleticism?

Both played 44,000-45,000 career NBA minutes, but Malone had 3108 more FTM, 2697 more off rebs, Olajuwon had 2097 more blocks.

Yet Olajuwon was more athletic? How? if Olajuwon was more athletic than Malone, how come Malone had far more FTM and off rebs? Those require athleticism to get just as much as anything else.

And? This isn't a comment which proves anything. It's just derisive drivel.

Yes. We get it. You don't like it when facts fly in the face of your statements. Just like when you make this statement:

Are you planning on at some point arguing in good faith

When you cannot argue your bogus statements to be valid.

[jalengreen]

I think you guys should break up these quotes some more. One response per sentence

[tsherkin]

I think you guys should break up these quotes some more. One response per sentence

I think I'm good. I can waste time on nonsense only so much, you know?

Anyway. I think it's clear Moses would be effective in today's game, but there are differences in how the league works, so it would be interesting to see how he could adapt. Dude definitely wasn't an archetypical defensive center, and his offensive game, while better than his rep (ALL OFFENSIVE BOARDS) wasn't quite as versatile as we saw from some of the other dominant bigs with who he shared his time in the league. 79-87, he was a 25.5 ppg guy in 38.4 mpg, which is quite good. 24 PTS36. 57.2% TS, 107 TS+ (that's Kobe-ish territory, like +3, +3.5% rTS on average).

Instead of sticking in the weeds with the ridiculous, we can focus on the positives in his game.

His offensive rebounding would be very interesting in a league which doesn't emphasize it as much. But still sends at least one guy back. So that would be pretty huge from a possession control game. And of course he'd benefit like anyone else from the rise in FG% in the RA, and probably from a lot of the lob-city types of sets that guys like Luka and Harden love to run with their bigs, you know? So I imagine he'd probably still be quite an effective scorer. He didn't have a 3, doesn't project like a stunner from above the break and probably isn't worth sending into the corner, but lots of teams play 4-out instead of 5-out today and it works just fine. Plus again, you can throw up a contested middie or a floater or whatever and he's got about as good a chance of getting that as anyone else in league history, or better, and that's a big deal for matching off efficacy of team offense with the somewhat reduced spacing he creates.

He'd be pretty damned good.

[TrueLAfan]

^^^ This.

I’ve posted on this before—IMO, Moses is kind of the ultimate role player. And I think he’d be more so today. His range was … fair. He simply could not bring the ball down and dribble; it’s one of the reasons his turnovers are so high. He also wasn’t a good passer. Moses just did not have a good handle. The bottom line is that he wasn’t a cerebral player.

But he was relentless. On D, I think a more recent comp would be P.J. Brown. Brown also didn’t have super high block numbers, but was strong and used his strength to keep people out of the key. He disrupted the opposing big man’s flow. I actually think Brown was a little better on D than Moses, but I also think that’s a decent match.

Moses simply played hard. He was in great shape for the first 15 years of his career. He had skills, but he got most of him impact from his focus and doggedness. That relentlessness was what gave him value. He got to the line as a byproduct of his physical play and rebounding. Every team needs that; it’s why I consider him as the uber role player. His skills didn’t lend themselves to being an offensive focal point. And he was, maybe, above average on D. But it reminds me a little of Dwight Howard—another player whose skills and basketball IQ had a distinct ceiling (although their strengths were very different). You knew what Dwight could do. You just couldn’t stop it. Same with Moses. You knew he would be pushing you around persistently on D, even if he wasn’t thinking in terms of passing or positioning. You knew he would relentlessly attack the boards. You knew that if he got the ball within 10 feet, that strength and tenacity would get him a good shot or, likely a trip to the foul line where he was very, very good. His weaknesses didn’t matter because you couldn’t stop his strengths. Not really.

[tsherkin]

But he was relentless. On D, I think a more recent comp would be P.J. Brown. Brown also didn’t have super high block numbers, but was strong and used his strength to keep people out of the key. He disrupted the opposing big man’s flow. I actually think Brown was a little better on D than Moses, but I also think that’s a decent match.

Always nice to see a TrueLAfan post!

PJ Brown is a quality comparison defensively. Velcro on his man in the post, bumping and disrupting all over the place.

Moses simply played hard. He was in great shape for the first 15 years of his career. He had skills, but he got most of him impact from his focus and doggedness. That relentlessness was what gave him value. He got to the line as a byproduct of his physical play and rebounding.

Yeah, even watching any games or highlights or whatever of him, you don't see him athletically blasting to the rim. You see him take a dribble and power up THROUGH guys. Or you see him getting under them when he takes a jumper, he got a bunch of fouls with that. He was a bull.

Moses was strong, and he knew it, and he used it. But footspeed wasn't his thing, nor were devilish post moves. He had some, but like, so did Dwight. So did Ewing. So did Mourning. So did Karl Malone. None of those guys would be called especially advanced in that regard. Functional, though. Strength coupled to some basics.

Also, Ewing, Mourning and Dwight all traveled like EVERY SINGLE TIME they faced up. Georgetown Shuffle, indeed. Moses was better about that, from what I can see. xD