2024-2025 College Basketball / NBA Draft - Volume III

[M2J]

Dabods and Kyle have said from the beginning of this process that Ace's upside isn't as high as people perceive.

Literal idiots, particularly Kyle. Derek is just one of you analytic guys using the wrong math

[M2J]

The anti-Ace contingent has taken over the media and it's absolutely disgusting

Seth let that cat out of the bag on PHLy

[sodmoraes]

I don't think you know his mentality, all we've heard from around the team is he's selfless, terrific teammate, and did what was asked of him on a bad team.

All this other stuff is speculation.

Of course it's all speculation and there's a degree of uncertainty about everybody. None of us here know these prospects personally.

Ace Bailey might secretly be a saint. And yes, many people have said nice things about him.

But there's enough bad about the way he's answered some questions and other things that people just get put off by him and ask these things.

Ultimately, you can't really know anybody else. James Doakes was a homocide detective for the Miami Metro Police Department and a decorated war veteran. Who the hell knew he'd turn out to be the Bay Harbor Butcher? It happens.

My point is mainly the point I've always had. These teams get a lot more Intel than we do... And talk to these guys directly... While fans and even media hang onto every scrap and make bold speculations

I agree, we are just making assumptions based on tweets and things like that, so there´s a big case of information asymmetry going on. There´s a lot of people that want to get Ace, so they may be bombing his value with this news, so they can draft him lower. Besides this week, there werent any reports that Ace was a problematic kid, and now they are showing everywhere, its kinda suspicious... In the end, we dont know anything, maybe Ace is a bad person or he´s a saint, but we will never know. I want the draft day to come soon, because i´m getting tired of this process already..

[Mik317]

I think Ace has high upside if he hits all of his upside...its just a lot has to go right for that and as of right now I don't see it on tape. I also think VJ has more than just really good role player upside that people put on him...as I don't think his handle is that bad. I also can see a world where Tre's shooting is just that electric that his dog poop defense matters less. I can see Kon's craft and big body stuff randomly translating and he's more than just a shooter.

All of these guys have a pathway to stardom. It happens too often with random prospects to not think there is a chance. Kawhii again was a board man with long arms and turned into damn near a perfect player. HOWEVER to expect that is also just crazy because that's rare. Thad Young is my guy and one of my favorite sixers of all time...never learned how to dribble lol. Iggy had an insane career all things considered but hit his ceiling as a scorer. **** is not that easy to prognosticate. So you are left with looking for traits and historical stat indicators to attempt to figure it out...and thats the fun part for us normies on the internet to discuss and see if it pans out that way...but random **** happens all the time lol.

[LeonJordanJr24]

We got lucky to be in draft and we aren't good enough or reliable enough to draft top 3 for safe high floor roleplayer. You draft star upside in Ace or move up for Harper. This whole draft is a gamble outside top pick. The Ace polarization is actually unnecessary... Come on yall VJ? Really ..

[Stanford]

Literal idiots

Oh, okay. Sorry, I didn't know.

[Negrodamus]

We got lucky to be in draft and we aren't good enough or reliable enough to draft top 3 for safe high floor roleplayer. You draft star upside in Ace or move up for Harper. This whole draft is a gamble outside top pick. The Ace polarization is actually unnecessary... Come on yall VJ? Really ..

Ace is Jaden McDaniels, a role player.

VJ has a higher ceiling.

C'mon we will draft VJ, no need to overthink this! Really, we're talkin' Ace? Pfft!

[FireMorey]

Dabods and Kyle have said from the beginning of this process that Ace's upside isn't as high as people perceive.

From what I've heard both still believe he has higher offensive upside than VJ.

[sodmoraes]

If we dont draft Ace i need atleast a subtopic named "The book of Ace" in the sixers forum, so we can keep talking about him, that´s a need mod guys!

[Negrodamus]

Read on Twitter

[Jailblazers7]

The reason I have more faith in VJ is that he has an elite NBA trait (athleticism) + solid impact metrics in multiple areas of the game + demonstrated success in international play on a roster with NBA players. He can end up being a borderline AS level player with normal incremental improvements to his game & doesn’t necessarily need a massive leap in any single area (although that would be nice). That’s not even getting into the anecdotes about his character & work ethic, which is a theme in guys Morey has drafted.

Ace had a pretty solid floor but to reach his ceiling he needs some pretty massive leaps to his game. Passing & IQ are the biggest areas he’d need to make significant strides in to be an AS level player. Based on the tape & stats in front of us, his case for “star” upside smells like hopium to me. But I’d be happy to end up with a Jaden McDaniels - that’s a good, important player on a 2x WCF team.

[Arsenal]

Read on Twitter

#7 and #23 ain't enough to move up to #3. We need the NOP/MIL 2026 1st (swap) pick next year along with #7.

[Arsenal]

We got lucky to be in draft and we aren't good enough or reliable enough to draft top 3 for safe high floor roleplayer. You draft star upside in Ace or move up for Harper. This whole draft is a gamble outside top pick. The Ace polarization is actually unnecessary... Come on yall VJ? Really ..

Ace is Jaden McDaniels, a role player.

VJ has a higher ceiling.

C'mon we will draft VJ, no need to overthink this! Really, we're talkin' Ace? Pfft!

Ace is Jaden McDaniels that can get his own shot in the midrange and light it up from 3PT. That's a TWO-WAY superstar.

VJ is the role player. A Gary Harris type who will need others to create open shots for him. Derrick White at best, except White has handles and PG skills.

[sodmoraes]

If Morey thinks Ace is the pick, but his entourage doesnt want him here, do you still pick him? I would, if you belive in him, you pick him, he will be here atleast 4 years, let him sulk all he wants, idgaf.

[Stanford]

You've gotta be pretty handsome and cool to like VJ as a prospect tbh

[Negrodamus]

We got lucky to be in draft and we aren't good enough or reliable enough to draft top 3 for safe high floor roleplayer. You draft star upside in Ace or move up for Harper. This whole draft is a gamble outside top pick. The Ace polarization is actually unnecessary... Come on yall VJ? Really ..

Ace is Jaden McDaniels, a role player.

VJ has a higher ceiling.

C'mon we will draft VJ, no need to overthink this! Really, we're talkin' Ace? Pfft!

Ace is Jaden McDaniels that can get his own shot in the midrange and light it up from 3PT. That's a TWO-WAY superstar.

VJ is the role player. A Gary Harris type who will need others to create open shots for him. Derrick White at best, except White has handles and PG skills.

No, no, no, you misunderstood me, Ace is Jaden McDaniels, the ROLE PLAYER. I hope that clears it up.

VJ is the superstar guard who dunks over everyone and hits a ton of threes. He also plays defense too, which is a great plus.

[CPops57]

The thing is even the Bailey detractors don't really deny that his upside is higher than VJ's.

"Theoretical max upside" is distinct from "realistic good case outcome".

Yes, I do concede that Ace's "theoretical max upside" is probably the highest outside of Cooper Flagg. If everything goes perfect with his development, that could be a great player. But how often does perfect development happen?

Ace's "realistic good case outcome" to me feels lower than all of the players commonly bandied about in the 3-6ish range of VJ/Kon/Tre. With all of those other players, I see a very clear path to them contributing a bit now, and especially down the road.

Ace has to change his shot selection and mentality to be a useful player, on top of all of the other things wrong with his game. His main good attribute to start with (being able to hit contested midrange shots) is one of the least useful skills in the modern game. His body needs years to fill out correctly IMO (and even then, he's stuck with a higher center of gravity). The free throw shooting on top of things is just a big warning sign about his shot translating. Just a lot of things that are potential constraints.

Again, I could be very wrong. Even the smartest basketball minds in history got different players wrong. But this is a bet that I wouldn't make.

I will say though that I do trust Hinkie and will support whoever the pick is given his good track record. I hope everybody here makes that pledge.

[Jailblazers7]

Ace’s standout skill is hitting tough midrange jumpers and our GM is Daryl Morey aka King Nerd. I would be very surprised if he’s the pick.

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

If we're trading down we can have better conversations about who to pick. For instance, I like Colin Murray-Boyles and Queen every bit as much as I like Edgecombe or Bailey. I feel like we're going to get the same value at 7 or 8 that we will at 3. Queen and Jakucionis are the ones to take in that range that might become superstar players in this league. I still say trade down. Before this all got going I was under the assumption that Flagg, Harper, and Bailey were certified locks to go 1,2,3. That has all changed now.

[FireMorey]

The thing is even the Bailey detractors don't really deny that his upside is higher than VJ's.

"Theoretical max upside" is distinct from "realistic good case outcome".

Yes, I do concede that Ace's "theoretical max upside" is probably the highest outside of Cooper Flagg. If everything goes perfect with his development, that could be a great player. But how often does perfect development happen?

Ace's "realistic good case outcome" to me feels lower than all of the players commonly bandied about in the 3-6ish range of VJ/Kon/Tre. With all of those other players, I see a very clear path to them contributing a bit now, and especially down the road.

Ace has to change his shot selection and mentality to be a useful player, on top of all of the other things wrong with his game. His main good attribute to start with (being able to hit contested midrange shots) is one of the least useful skills in the modern game. His body needs years to fill out correctly IMO (and even then, he's stuck with a higher center of gravity). The free throw shooting on top of things is just a big warning sign about his shot translating. Just a lot of things that are potential constraints.

Again, I could be very wrong. Even the smartest basketball minds in history got different players wrong. But this is a bet that I wouldn't make.

I will say though that I do trust Hinkie and will support whoever the pick is given his good track record. I hope everybody here makes that pledge.

I believe in always taking upside in drafts. A lot of people think that if the Sixers stay at 3 and pick VJ and he ends up being a solid NBA player, that it wouldn't be a waste of a pick. I disagree. To me, drafting a solid player with a top 3 pick is just as bad as picking a total bust. Top 3 picks in the NBA are supposed to be needle movers. Me personally, I'd take a 10% chance at that over a 0% chance at that but with an 80% chance at being a 10 year pro who never is an all star. Not saying that describes Ace and VJ, just speaking generally.

I personally don't really want either. As I've said before I want them to go up for Harper or move down for Tre. But if we're talking Ace for VJ, then I'm team Ace because I believe his upside is higher even if I feel his risk of being a bust is also higher.