2024-2025 College Basketball / NBA Draft - Volume III
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Re: 2024-2025 College Basketball / NBA Draft - Volume III
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Re: 2024-2025 College Basketball / NBA Draft - Volume III
I think VJ can be more than just a solid NBA player tho. Think he has all star potential and perhaps higher if some things goes right. Its just that his floor is also high and thus more likely than that but still there is a world in which his jumper develops and his first step is deadly and all of the defensive stuff also pops..thats an all star.
I don't get how people put caps on guys and then turn around and say another guy will develop skills he doesn't have just fine. Any of the guys we take at 3 can become stars...its up to your scouts and then staff to make it happen tho.
I don't get how people put caps on guys and then turn around and say another guy will develop skills he doesn't have just fine. Any of the guys we take at 3 can become stars...its up to your scouts and then staff to make it happen tho.
#NeverGonnaBeGood
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Re: 2024-2025 College Basketball / NBA Draft - Volume III
Covi_Marsh wrote:Mavs: Flagg only workout
Spurs: Harper only workout
Sixers: VJ and Ace only workouts
Hornets: couldn’t find anyone top prospect wise
Jazz: Tre Johnson only workout, Kon Kneuppel
Wizards: Jeremiah Fears
Pelicans: Kon Kneuppel, Derrick Queen, Egor Denim, Cedric Coward and a few other that aren’t worth 7.
Nets: Jeremiah Fears, Kon Knueppel
I think we can exclude Kon Knueppel unless we trade down. Doubt an agent would have their client workout as far as 9 unless intel says that’s their range. I would say the same with Tre. I don’t understand why Charlotte worked anyone out yet. Ace, VJ, Kon, Tre should all have something scheduled there unless they declined.
Charlotte's new management/ownership has said they're no longer publicizing workout details. So unless agents leak that a workout happened everyone is in the dark about what the Hornets are doing.
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Re: 2024-2025 College Basketball / NBA Draft - Volume III
Doesn't go to a high school that refines his deficiencies.
Doesn't go to a college with a good coach that will help him flourish in his abilities (or win)
Doesn't hire a good agent.
I'm suspecting that he has poor judgment...
Re: 2024-2025 College Basketball / NBA Draft - Volume III
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Re: 2024-2025 College Basketball / NBA Draft - Volume III
Negrodamus wrote:Arsenal wrote:Negrodamus wrote:
Ace is Jaden McDaniels, a role player.
VJ has a higher ceiling.
C'mon we will draft VJ, no need to overthink this! Really, we're talkin' Ace? Pfft!
Ace is Jaden McDaniels that can get his own shot in the midrange and light it up from 3PT. That's a TWO-WAY superstar.
VJ is the role player. A Gary Harris type who will need others to create open shots for him. Derrick White at best, except White has handles and PG skills.
No, no, no, you misunderstood me, Ace is Jaden McDaniels, the ROLE PLAYER. I hope that clears it up.
VJ is the superstar guard who dunks over everyone and hits a ton of threes. He also plays defense too, which is a great plus.
Oh Jaden McDaniels who the Wolves just said they wouldn't trade for Kevin Durant? Key cog to the reigning Western conference finalists that has won some playoff games with 30 spots and big defense.
That's clearly not his ceiling, but if that's who he is... Take the pick.
But I would argue that Ace could be a better shooter than Jaden but year 2 or maybe year 1.
Better than Deanthony Melton aka VJ.
Re: 2024-2025 College Basketball / NBA Draft - Volume III
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Re: 2024-2025 College Basketball / NBA Draft - Volume III
M2J wrote:Negrodamus wrote:Arsenal wrote:
Ace is Jaden McDaniels that can get his own shot in the midrange and light it up from 3PT. That's a TWO-WAY superstar.
VJ is the role player. A Gary Harris type who will need others to create open shots for him. Derrick White at best, except White has handles and PG skills.
No, no, no, you misunderstood me, Ace is Jaden McDaniels, the ROLE PLAYER. I hope that clears it up.
VJ is the superstar guard who dunks over everyone and hits a ton of threes. He also plays defense too, which is a great plus.
Oh Jaden McDaniels who the Wolves just said they wouldn't trade for Kevin Durant? Key cog to the reigning Western conference finalists that has won some playoff games with 30 spots and big defense.
That's clearly not his ceiling, but if that's who he is... Take the pick.
But I would argue that Ace could be a better shooter than Jaden but year 2 or maybe year 1.
Better than Deanthony Melton aka VJ.
No, you've misunderstood me. VJ is an all-star which is better than Ace's upside of a nice 3&D wing like Jaden McDaniels. Ace could be helpful, but VJ is more helpful. Simple. Sorry.
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FireMorey wrote:I believe in always taking upside in drafts. A lot of people think that if the Sixers stay at 3 and pick VJ and he ends up being a solid NBA player, that it wouldn't be a waste of a pick. I disagree. To me, drafting a solid player with a top 3 pick is just as bad as picking a total bust. Top 3 picks in the NBA are supposed to be needle movers. Me personally, I'd take a 10% chance at that over a 0% chance at that but with an 80% chance at being a 10 year pro who never is an all star. Not saying that describes Ace and VJ, just speaking generally.
I personally don't really want either. As I've said before I want them to go up for Harper or move down for Tre. But if we're talking Ace for VJ, then I'm team Ace because I believe his upside is higher even if I feel his risk of being a bust is also higher.
I disagree with you eval of VJ vs. Ace but setting that aside - how does the bolded sentence make any sense? Turning a valuable asset (#3 pick) into absolutely nothing is equivalent to recouping some value via a rotation level NBA player? Obviously the ideal outcome is that we draft a superstar but other potential outcomes can’t be completely ignored.
In a 2020 redraft, don’t you think the Warriors would rather have someone like Devin Vassell (good but not great player) at #2 vs. swinging for a grand slam and missing with Wiseman?
Re: 2024-2025 College Basketball / NBA Draft - Volume III
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Re: 2024-2025 College Basketball / NBA Draft - Volume III
SI has us taking VJ and Ace going to Utah
https://www.si.com/onsi/fantasy/nba/2025-nba-mock-draft-shakeup-ace-bailey-slips-v-j-edgecomb-rises-cooper-flagg-stays-put
https://www.si.com/onsi/fantasy/nba/2025-nba-mock-draft-shakeup-ace-bailey-slips-v-j-edgecomb-rises-cooper-flagg-stays-put
NYSixersFan wrote:quite simply, If I were GM, We would have a good young playoff team right now; with cap flexibility going forward
NYSixersFan wrote:I'D BE more then happy to debate you or anyone else on specifics
NYSixersFan wrote:How can I give you specifics? I'm not talking to other GM's
Re: 2024-2025 College Basketball / NBA Draft - Volume III
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Re: 2024-2025 College Basketball / NBA Draft - Volume III
Negrodamus wrote:
Doesn't go to a high school that refines his deficiencies.
Doesn't go to a college with a good coach that will help him flourish in his abilities (or win)
Doesn't hire a good agent.
I'm suspecting that he has poor judgment...
I’ve been telling you, the biggest concerns with him are between the ears.
2025-2026 Philadelphia 76ers:
Maxey/McCain/Lowry
Grimes/Edgecombe/Gordon
Oubre/Edwards/Council
George/Watford/Walker
Embiid/Bona/Drummond/Broome
Maxey/McCain/Lowry
Grimes/Edgecombe/Gordon
Oubre/Edwards/Council
George/Watford/Walker
Embiid/Bona/Drummond/Broome
Re: 2024-2025 College Basketball / NBA Draft - Volume III
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Re: 2024-2025 College Basketball / NBA Draft - Volume III
FireMorey wrote:
I believe in always taking upside in drafts.
Just curious if you feel like sharing, about how old are you?
I used to think exactly like this too. I started watching hoops in the mid 90s. I was initially excited and enamored beyond belief by the high theoretical max upside draft picks. I would have thought things like "you can always teach them to pass and shoot and play smarter, but you can't teach their size/athleticism/length."
And in most cases, I would have made the wrong choice.
I would have made all of these choices as a GM as a younger excitable fan and would have been wrong.
Michael Olowokandi over Mike Bibby. I would have thought, you can't teach that size, strength and body. Who cares about that tiny guy?
Jonathan Bender over Wally Szczerbiak. A shooter is boring compared to a long athletic forward. You can find a shooter anywhere.
Stromile Swift and Jerome Moiso over Mike Miller. A shooter is nothing compared to hyper-athletic physical specimens.
Kwame Brown over Pau Gasol or even Shane Battier. Kwame Brown's size, athleticism, and potential would have excited me beyond belief.
That last one is particularly interesting. Shane Battier only ever maxed out as a role player, but with his smarts he was one of the best ones and he still contributed to championships and 100% would have been a better choice for any team. In the modern game in particular, role players who can handle and shoot and do multiple things are very valuable.
In the modern NBA, even smart role players who can provide depth and crush their role are valuable. Look at TJ McConnell. Nobody ever thought he had any upside. And here he is being a difference maker in the NBA Finals. Hell, compare him being undrafted to the Top 10 in the 2015 draft. How many teams in the top 10 would have been better off with a player of TJ's great role player impact versus the career that Top 10 draftee had? No upside TJ McConnell had a more impactful career to winning than 7, maybe 8 of the top 10 players in his draft. Think about that.
A lot of people think that if the Sixers stay at 3 and pick VJ and he ends up being a solid NBA player, that it wouldn't be a waste of a pick. I disagree. To me, drafting a solid player with a top 3 pick is just as bad as picking a total bust. Top 3 picks in the NBA are supposed to be needle movers. Me personally, I'd take a 10% chance at that over a 0% chance at that but with an 80% chance at being a 10 year pro who never is an all star. Not saying that describes Ace and VJ, just speaking generally.
1) If there's a needle mover available, that's great. I would have drafted Joel Embiid at #3 too despite the obvious health risks. I just don't see Ace Bailey as a "realistic good case outcome" that's better than at least 3 other players in Kon/VJ/Tre.
2) Your way of thinking is a misuse of resources. A good role player might not necessarily be a superstar, but he can always be traded down the road with a draft pick or 3 to get that great talent. You want to accumulate good players that add value.
I personally don't really want either. As I've said before I want them to go up for Harper or move down for Tre. But if we're talking Ace for VJ, then I'm team Ace because I believe his upside is higher even if I feel his risk of being a bust is also higher.
I like the idea of moving up or down more than Ace of course, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion. Time will tell who is right.
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Re: 2024-2025 College Basketball / NBA Draft - Volume III
Interesting that the Pelicans just got 23 from Indy and returned Indy's pick to them next year.
Now they have 7, 23, and Herb Jones to offer (for 3). That's certainly better. Even though I would still really like Trey Murphy.
Now they have 7, 23, and Herb Jones to offer (for 3). That's certainly better. Even though I would still really like Trey Murphy.
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Jailblazers7 wrote:FireMorey wrote:I believe in always taking upside in drafts. A lot of people think that if the Sixers stay at 3 and pick VJ and he ends up being a solid NBA player, that it wouldn't be a waste of a pick. I disagree. To me, drafting a solid player with a top 3 pick is just as bad as picking a total bust. Top 3 picks in the NBA are supposed to be needle movers. Me personally, I'd take a 10% chance at that over a 0% chance at that but with an 80% chance at being a 10 year pro who never is an all star. Not saying that describes Ace and VJ, just speaking generally.
I personally don't really want either. As I've said before I want them to go up for Harper or move down for Tre. But if we're talking Ace for VJ, then I'm team Ace because I believe his upside is higher even if I feel his risk of being a bust is also higher.
I disagree with you eval of VJ vs. Ace but setting that aside - how does the bolded sentence make any sense? Turning a valuable asset (#3 pick) into absolutely nothing is equivalent to recouping some value via a rotation level NBA player? Obviously the ideal outcome is that we draft a superstar but other potential outcomes can’t be completely ignored.
In a 2020 redraft, don’t you think the Warriors would rather have someone like Devin Vassell (good but not great player) at #2 vs. swinging for a grand slam and missing with Wiseman?
But when you draft you don't have the luxury of hindsight. Of course they'd rather not have taken Wiseman now, but they would still take that same gamble of upside 10 times out of 10 in the moment and incur the risk. I'll put it to you this way:
If the Sixers stay at 3 and took Ace over VJ and Ace turns out to be a bust and VJ turns out to say be an Oladipo lite(from his prime) a good player that contributes on playoff teams, but isn't a star, my regret level will be a 2/10. And of that 2 it would be purely because Ace didn't turn out and not "Damn, why didn't the Sixers take VJ???"
If the Sixers take VJ and he turns out to be a good solid NBA player, but not a star, but Ace turns out to be a star, my regret level will be a 10/10.
I know those aren't the only outcomes, just trying to give a window into my psychology on how I view cost/benefit when it comes to draft and where my priorities lie.
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Re: 2024-2025 College Basketball / NBA Draft - Volume III
I dont thik Ace would like living in Utah...
[quote:bba5df4c1f="hornetstime"]jr smith will be out of this league in 2 years, book it.[/quote]
Re: 2024-2025 College Basketball / NBA Draft - Volume III
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Re: 2024-2025 College Basketball / NBA Draft - Volume III
My favorite part of the NBA season is when they give the trophy to the team with the lowest regret level
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Re: 2024-2025 College Basketball / NBA Draft - Volume III

Re: 2024-2025 College Basketball / NBA Draft - Volume III
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Re: 2024-2025 College Basketball / NBA Draft - Volume III
CPops57 wrote:FireMorey wrote:
I believe in always taking upside in drafts.
Just curious if you feel like sharing, about how old are you?
I used to think exactly like this too. I started watching hoops in the mid 90s. I was initially excited and enamored beyond belief by the high theoretical max upside draft picks. I would have thought things like "you can always teach them to pass and shoot and play smarter, but you can't teach their size/athleticism/length."
And in most cases, I would have made the wrong choice.
I would have made all of these choices as a GM as a younger excitable fan and would have been wrong.
Michael Olowokandi over Mike Bibby. I would have thought, you can't teach that size, strength and body. Who cares about that tiny guy?
Jonathan Bender over Wally Szczerbiak. A shooter is boring compared to a long athletic forward. You can find a shooter anywhere.
Stromile Swift and Jerome Moiso over Mike Miller. A shooter is nothing compared to hyper-athletic physical specimens.
Kwame Brown over Pau Gasol or even Shane Battier. Kwame Brown's size, athleticism, and potential would have excited me beyond belief.
That last one is particularly interesting. Shane Battier only ever maxed out as a role player, but with his smarts he was one of the best ones and he still contributed to championships and 100% would have been a better choice for any team. In the modern game in particular, role players who can handle and shoot and do multiple things are very valuable.
In the modern NBA, even smart role players who can provide depth and crush their role are valuable. Look at TJ McConnell. Nobody ever thought he had any upside. And here he is being a difference maker in the NBA Finals. Hell, compare him being undrafted to the Top 10 in the 2015 draft. How many teams in the top 10 would have been better off with a player of TJ's great role player impact versus the career that Top 10 draftee had? No upside TJ McConnell had a more impactful career to winning than 7, maybe 8 of the top 10 players in his draft. Think about that.A lot of people think that if the Sixers stay at 3 and pick VJ and he ends up being a solid NBA player, that it wouldn't be a waste of a pick. I disagree. To me, drafting a solid player with a top 3 pick is just as bad as picking a total bust. Top 3 picks in the NBA are supposed to be needle movers. Me personally, I'd take a 10% chance at that over a 0% chance at that but with an 80% chance at being a 10 year pro who never is an all star. Not saying that describes Ace and VJ, just speaking generally.
1) If there's a needle mover available, that's great. I would have drafted Joel Embiid at #3 too despite the obvious health risks. I just don't see Ace Bailey as a "realistic good case outcome" that's better than at least 3 other players in Kon/VJ/Tre.
2) Your way of thinking is a misuse of resources. A good role player might not necessarily be a superstar, but he can always be traded down the road with a draft pick or 3 to get that great talent. You want to accumulate good players that add value.I personally don't really want either. As I've said before I want them to go up for Harper or move down for Tre. But if we're talking Ace for VJ, then I'm team Ace because I believe his upside is higher even if I feel his risk of being a bust is also higher.
I like the idea of moving up or down more than Ace of course, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion. Time will tell who is right.
In my 40's. As I've gotten older, I have less and less love for the league. But my mentality with the NBA has entirely changed ever since Adam Silver screwed over the Sixers with Hinkie. Since then, I went from loving the NBA to kind of despising it, and I only tune in to watch games now if I have an overwhelming reason to. Those reasons are the Sixers are a great team with a very good chance to win a championship. Or they have one(or more) star players that are worth the time to tune in to watch every night. Aside from that, the NBA is all but dead to me. I will never forgive them for meddling in the affairs of the Sixers, my love for the league is irreparably damaged. And this was a league where I used to watch every game every night, to a sport where I barely watch at all now. But I still follow religiously, I just don't dedicate my free time to consuming it as a product.
So given that, you could see why I'd place a high value on the Sixers accumulating stars. If they get a player that is solid or good, but not special, I'll be honest, I'm going to have zero interest to tune in. But I do still love the game of basketball, I just hate the NBA as a league. So given my love of basketball, I will have interest to tune in, but only for the two reasons stated above. If the Sixers get a player out of this draft who turns out to be a star level talent, that would make a difference for me. As as a basketball fan who hates the NBA, but would like a reason to give the Sixers some of my time, you can see why just a good solid player would do nothing for me. And if a player ends up being a bust, I'm no worse for wear, because I'll just continue to not watch as I've been doing.
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FireMorey wrote:Jailblazers7 wrote:FireMorey wrote:I believe in always taking upside in drafts. A lot of people think that if the Sixers stay at 3 and pick VJ and he ends up being a solid NBA player, that it wouldn't be a waste of a pick. I disagree. To me, drafting a solid player with a top 3 pick is just as bad as picking a total bust. Top 3 picks in the NBA are supposed to be needle movers. Me personally, I'd take a 10% chance at that over a 0% chance at that but with an 80% chance at being a 10 year pro who never is an all star. Not saying that describes Ace and VJ, just speaking generally.
I personally don't really want either. As I've said before I want them to go up for Harper or move down for Tre. But if we're talking Ace for VJ, then I'm team Ace because I believe his upside is higher even if I feel his risk of being a bust is also higher.
I disagree with you eval of VJ vs. Ace but setting that aside - how does the bolded sentence make any sense? Turning a valuable asset (#3 pick) into absolutely nothing is equivalent to recouping some value via a rotation level NBA player? Obviously the ideal outcome is that we draft a superstar but other potential outcomes can’t be completely ignored.
In a 2020 redraft, don’t you think the Warriors would rather have someone like Devin Vassell (good but not great player) at #2 vs. swinging for a grand slam and missing with Wiseman?
But when you draft you don't have the luxury of hindsight. Of course they'd rather not have taken Wiseman now, but they would still take that same gamble of upside 10 times out of 10 in the moment and incur the risk. I'll put it to you this way:
If the Sixers stay at 3 and took Ace over VJ and Ace turns out to be a bust and VJ turns out to say be an Oladipo lite(from his prime) a good player that contributes on playoff teams, but isn't a star, my regret level will be a 2/10. And of that 2 it would be purely because Ace didn't turn out and not "Damn, why didn't the Sixers take VJ???"
If the Sixers take VJ and he turns out to be a good solid NBA player, but not a star, but Ace turns out to be a star, my regret level will be a 10/10.
I know those aren't the only outcomes, just trying to give a window into my psychology on how I view cost/benefit when it comes to draft and where my priorities lie.
I appreciate the example and insight into your thought process. It’s just not how I would make the decision if it were up to me.
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Re: 2024-2025 College Basketball / NBA Draft - Volume III
Covi_Marsh wrote:[x]?s=46[/x]
Man i dont have ESPN, only Amazon, but i need to see this draft, its gonna be crazy! Probably will have to pay league pass one month just to have access to the draft live.
[quote:bba5df4c1f="hornetstime"]jr smith will be out of this league in 2 years, book it.[/quote]
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Re: 2024-2025 College Basketball / NBA Draft - Volume III
sodmoraes wrote:Covi_Marsh wrote:[x]?s=46[/x]
Man i dont have ESPN, only Amazon, but i need to see this draft, its gonna be crazy! Probably will have to pay league pass one month just to have access to the draft live.
If you have Twitter just turn on notifications from Shams. I’m sure he’s going to tweet the picks before espn. You’ll also hear about the trades before espn announces the pick has been traded with the kid stage with the wrong team hat on lol. Still stupid NBA does that.
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Re: 2024-2025 College Basketball / NBA Draft - Volume III
Jailblazers7 wrote:FireMorey wrote:I believe in always taking upside in drafts. A lot of people think that if the Sixers stay at 3 and pick VJ and he ends up being a solid NBA player, that it wouldn't be a waste of a pick. I disagree. To me, drafting a solid player with a top 3 pick is just as bad as picking a total bust. Top 3 picks in the NBA are supposed to be needle movers. Me personally, I'd take a 10% chance at that over a 0% chance at that but with an 80% chance at being a 10 year pro who never is an all star. Not saying that describes Ace and VJ, just speaking generally.
I personally don't really want either. As I've said before I want them to go up for Harper or move down for Tre. But if we're talking Ace for VJ, then I'm team Ace because I believe his upside is higher even if I feel his risk of being a bust is also higher.
I disagree with you eval of VJ vs. Ace but setting that aside - how does the bolded sentence make any sense? Turning a valuable asset (#3 pick) into absolutely nothing is equivalent to recouping some value via a rotation level NBA player? Obviously the ideal outcome is that we draft a superstar but other potential outcomes can’t be completely ignored.
In a 2020 redraft, don’t you think the Warriors would rather have someone like Devin Vassell (good but not great player) at #2 vs. swinging for a grand slam and missing with Wiseman?
100% agree. It's the whole idiotic take on Kon, that a solid role player type that winning teams covet with a high floor is not what you take at #3, but instead you must "swing for the fences" even with a high bust risk. I've maintained all along that it depends on the draft, and this one has one "sure fire" stud, a bunch of potentially great role players, and a few risk/reward types where the reward is not highly likely. Give me a good, high character kid with the high floor and the potential to be better than 'just' a role player.
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