2024-25 NBA Season Discussion

[IlikeSHAIguys]

Yay we're up in the 4th quarter. No way we blow it right?

please don't.

[jalengreen]

Got me rooting for the Pacers solely so this TJ McConnell 3rd quarter isn’t forgotten to history

Hali may have other plans though

[BusywithBball]

It feels like this game will decide series. If Indiana comeback and win and I think they will pull the biggest upset playing amazing basketball.

[GSP]

Jdubb has proved alot of ppl wrong including me. Besides those stinkers against Denver hes been an elite 2nd option these playoffs w/ his phenomenal twoway play.

[TheGOATRises007]

An all time stinker from Haliburton

[GSP]

An all time stinker from Haliburton

All time great onball pressure and man defense series from Lu Dort too. He has completely shut him down all series. I wanna see the final series stats w/ Dort as primary defender

[GSP]

Cant remember the last finals this good. Ppl say 16 but that was great for narrative and drama and a Goat game 7. Most the games in that series were actual blowouts 2 of them were 30pt blowouts. Game to game it wasnt as good as this series on pure hoops and competitiveness

[jalengreen]

Thunder defense in that 4th q run was generational

God damn I wonder how long theyll be able to sustain a defense like this

[IlikeSHAIguys]

Thunder defense in that 4th q run was generational

God damn I wonder how long theyll be able to sustain a defense like this

as long its long enough to close this i'm happy haha

[Special_Puppy]

Cant remember the last finals this good. Ppl say 16 but that was great for narrative and drama and a Goat game 7. Most the games in that series were actual blowouts 2 of them were 30pt blowouts. Game to game it wasnt as good as this series on pure hoops and competitiveness

2021 was very good

[EmpireFalls]

How do we go about explaining this Haliburton performance? It’s not an exaggeration to say that’s the worst Finals game ever played by an All-NBA player. Zero made shots as the primary ball handler across 34 minutes.

[CKRT]

How do we go about explaining this Haliburton performance? It’s not an exaggeration to say that’s the worst Finals game ever played by an All-NBA player. Zero made shots as the primary ball handler across 34 minutes.

I missed the first half, but didn't he reinjure his calf? From what I noticed during the 2nd half, he had trouble getting by people and creating space. Losing any kind of step against this OKC defense feels fatal when it's already difficult to get a clean shot off.

[Texas Chuck]

An all time stinker from Haliburton

He's clearly playing hurt. Now he is playing so that isn't an excuse, he shouldn't be out there if he can't help his team, but I tend to not call performances all-time stinkers when a guy is trying to gut one out for his team.

[Dr Positivity]

Nesmith getting destroyed these finals after looking so good on D against Knicks may be the difference for Indy.

OKC are like a worse Jordans Bulls with the SG/SF stars, so I think they can be ruled out of GOAT discussions.

[falcolombardi]

Nesmith getting destroyed these finals after looking so good on D against Knicks may be the difference for Indy.

OKC are like a worse Jordans Bulls with the SG/SF stars, so I think they can be ruled out of GOAT discussions.

Worse relative to era but probably beat the bulls 9 times out of 10 in a time machine argument (as would most 2010's and later champions not exactly a fair comparision admittedly)

Also the combination of regular season dominance + average title team playoff record (if they finish off indiana in 6) is up there or above half of bulls title runs

If okc finishes off pacers (this finals is far from over) they would be up there as a one-off with teams like 92 or 97 chicago imo in dominance

[Dr Positivity]

Nesmith getting destroyed these finals after looking so good on D against Knicks may be the difference for Indy.

OKC are like a worse Jordans Bulls with the SG/SF stars, so I think they can be ruled out of GOAT discussions.

Worse relative to era but probably beat the bulls 9 times out of 10 in a time machine argument (as would most 2010's and later champions not exactly a fair comparision admittedly)

Also the combination of regular season dominance + average title team playoff record (if they finish off indiana in 6) is up there or above half of bulls title runs

If okc finishes off pacers (this finals is far from over) they would be up there as a one-off with teams like 92 or 97 chicago imo

Yeah but Jordan and Pippen are better than SGA and JDub and Grant/Rodman are better than any of OKC's other players so even if you like the bottom of OKC's roster better (96/97 Bulls depth is also elite) I have a hard time seeing that gap being made up

[falcolombardi]

Nesmith getting destroyed these finals after looking so good on D against Knicks may be the difference for Indy.

OKC are like a worse Jordans Bulls with the SG/SF stars, so I think they can be ruled out of GOAT discussions.

Worse relative to era but probably beat the bulls 9 times out of 10 in a time machine argument (as would most 2010's and later champions not exactly a fair comparision admittedly)

Also the combination of regular season dominance + average title team playoff record (if they finish off indiana in 6) is up there or above half of bulls title runs

If okc finishes off pacers (this finals is far from over) they would be up there as a one-off with teams like 92 or 97 chicago imo

Yeah but Jordan and Pippen are better than SGA and JDub and Grant/Rodman are better than any of OKC's other players so even if you like the bottom of OKC's roster better (96/97 Bulls depth is also elite) I have a hard time seeing that gap being made up.

What if in a vacuum i actually dont consider jordan significatively or a big gap better than shai?

Also think chet is up there already with rodman or grant and will only get better, jalen can eventually reach pippen level

[Dr Positivity]

Worse relative to era but probably beat the bulls 9 times out of 10 in a time machine argument (as would most 2010's and later champions not exactly a fair comparision admittedly)

Also the combination of regular season dominance + average title team playoff record (if they finish off indiana in 6) is up there or above half of bulls title runs

If okc finishes off pacers (this finals is far from over) they would be up there as a one-off with teams like 92 or 97 chicago imo

Yeah but Jordan and Pippen are better than SGA and JDub and Grant/Rodman are better than any of OKC's other players so even if you like the bottom of OKC's roster better (96/97 Bulls depth is also elite) I have a hard time seeing that gap being made up.

What if in a vacuum i actually dont consider jordan significatively better than shai? (Jordan better relative to peer stars)

Also think chet is up there already with rodman or grant and will only get better, jalen can eventually reach pippen levem

SGA regular season value isn't miles off MJ but I believe his skillset is worse as less dominant athlete and as great a midrange season as he had I'd still prefer MJ's ability to move off the ball for them.

[Doctor MJ]

How do we go about explaining this Haliburton performance? It’s not an exaggeration to say that’s the worst Finals game ever played by an All-NBA player. Zero made shots as the primary ball handler across 34 minutes.

Generally I think the short answer here is "He's hurt."

Now, arguably everyone is banged up and we should credit those who can function better while banged up, so I don't want to pretend Hali is playing great when he isn't, but I also don't think there's anything profound going on here. Dort's great, but he didn't just become that much greater. Maybe Hali's in his head a bit, but he's also the same guy whose had just about the most clutch post-season in basketball history, so I wouldn't be looking to run with too cynical of a narrative there.

[lessthanjake]

Worse relative to era but probably beat the bulls 9 times out of 10 in a time machine argument (as would most 2010's and later champions not exactly a fair comparision admittedly)

Also the combination of regular season dominance + average title team playoff record (if they finish off indiana in 6) is up there or above half of bulls title runs

If okc finishes off pacers (this finals is far from over) they would be up there as a one-off with teams like 92 or 97 chicago imo

Yeah but Jordan and Pippen are better than SGA and JDub and Grant/Rodman are better than any of OKC's other players so even if you like the bottom of OKC's roster better (96/97 Bulls depth is also elite) I have a hard time seeing that gap being made up.

What if in a vacuum i actually dont consider jordan significatively or a big gap better than shai?

Also think chet is up there already with rodman or grant and will only get better, jalen can eventually reach pippen level

SGA has been incredible this season, so it’s reasonable to say Jordan doesn’t have a “big gap” over SGA. SGA is having a pretty all-time season! But there probably is a gap—at least as compared to Jordan’s best years (I wouldn’t say 1998 Jordan was better for instance).

There’s also a gap between Pippen and Jalen Williams. Not as big a gap as the reputations might suggest and Jalen Williams may further improve to a Pippen level eventually, but there’s a gap there now IMO.

But I think OKC might actually more than make up for things with the rest of the roster. I could get on board with Chet and Grant being pretty similar, but the rest of the OKC role players are *a lot* better than the first-three-peat role players. It’s not even close IMO. The second-three-peat team had some really good role players. Kukoc, Harper, and Kerr were genuinely good players. But, while he may only be pretty similar to Grant, Chet is already better than Bulls Rodman IMO. And while Kukoc, Harper, and Kerr were really good role players, this year’s Thunder team goes deeper with genuinely good role players than even the second-three-peat Bulls did. They’re giving minutes to 10 guys in the Finals, and they’re all positive role players IMO (and I think guys like Caruso and Hartenstein are very positive). Jaylin Williams isn’t even really getting minutes in the Finals and he’s also a positive player IMO. While the second-three-peat Bulls were deep, they still had negative players in their rotation. Guys like Longley, Wennington, Buechler, Brown, and Caffey were in the playoff rotation and were negative players to varying degrees.

So, as compared to the first-three-peat, I think the Bulls do have an advantage with the two best guys and the third guy is probably a wash, but the rest of the supporting cast is miles better on the Thunder. Meanwhile, as compared to the second-three-peat, the Bulls still have an advantage with the two best guys (albeit a smaller one because Jordan wasn’t quite as good at this point as he was earlier), but the Thunder have an advantage with the third guy and the supporting cast is better (albeit not nearly to the same degree as compared to the first-three-peat Bulls).

Given this, I think there’s a decent argument that OKC is a better team than any of those Bulls teams (and they’re certainly better than 1993 or 1998 IMO). It kind of just depends on how big of a gap you think there is between Jordan/Pippen and SGA/Jalen, because there’s definitely a gap for the Bulls to make up with the rest of the roster. SGA is good enough this year that it’s hard to really say Jordan is *way* better. So it’d probably mostly come down to if one thinks Pippen is way better than Jalen Williams. He’s better, but I don’t actually know if he’s enough better. The Thunder are *really* good. There’s a reason they broke the SRS record despite not even being particularly healthy.