2025 General Draft Discussion 2

[fatlever]

Which player are we targeting on the Pelicans?

This doesn't move the needle for me.

my dream is still herb, but i have no idea what value they place on him.

if vj is gone, id float 4, 33 and green for herb and 7 but who knows if that way off.

I was thinking bigger - like Tre Murphy III.

Ace and Fears are serious prospects. Need a frontliner like Murphy III.

Obviously Trey Murphy would be incredible but I think his value probably leans closer towards what Orlando paid for Bane, like maybe one less first. I'd have to imagine the Pelicans place huge value on Murphy.

[JustBuzzin]

I pretty sure if you put Tre Johnson at Duke instead of Kon he is in conversation the #2 pick with Harper. I will just never get this team if they take Kon at 4. At this point if they take Kon and he struggles to get minutes because of his poor movement they are being straight up abusive to fans

Yeah definitely not a fan of Kon at #4. I could deal with Kon as a trade back option were we also get a starter + Kon.

But if we take Kon at #4 I'm gonna lose faith in Peterson. We can't screw up this draft pick for the 2nd straight season.

[MasterIchiro]

my dream is still herb, but i have no idea what value they place on him.

if vj is gone, id float 4, 33 and green for herb and 7 but who knows if that way off.

I was thinking bigger - like Tre Murphy III.

Ace and Fears are serious prospects. Need a frontliner like Murphy III.

Obviously Trey Murphy would be incredible but I think his value probably leans closer towards what Orlando paid for Bane, like maybe one less first. I'd have to imagine the Pelicans place huge value on Murphy.

Bane's value is more evenly distributed where it's hard to identify a clear centerpiece.

The value concentrated in Fears or Ace on a rookie scale deal to a rebuild team (missing a franchise PG) can steer negotiations in our favor and lighten the obligations Hornets would have adding value to round out the full package.

Certainly would include any combination of the three outside first round picks. I'd part with 2 of the 3, but not all 3.

Hornets
Murphy III
7
23

Pelicans
Salaün
Green
4
33
34
2027 Mavs
2027/28 Heat

[yosemiteben]

I pretty sure if you put Tre Johnson at Duke instead of Kon he is in conversation the #2 pick with Harper. I will just never get this team if they take Kon at 4. At this point if they take Kon and he struggles to get minutes because of his poor movement they are being straight up abusive to fans

Kon's stock is riding off of Flagg's talent like MKG with AD. Time for us to get fooled again?

When Flagg went down in the ACC tournament, Kon's stats went up pretty much across the board. He was the tournament MVP and averaged 21 pts, 7 bds, and 5 ast on 48.7% FG.

Not sure how the narrative of Kon only being productive because of Flagg can hold up in light of that.

[JMAC3]

I pretty sure if you put Tre Johnson at Duke instead of Kon he is in conversation the #2 pick with Harper. I will just never get this team if they take Kon at 4. At this point if they take Kon and he struggles to get minutes because of his poor movement they are being straight up abusive to fans

Kon's stock is riding off of Flagg's talent like MKG with AD. Time for us to get fooled again?

When Flagg went down in the ACC tournament, Kon's stats went up pretty much across the board. He was the tournament MVP and averaged 21 pts, 7 bds, and 5 ast on 48.7% FG.

Not sure how the narrative of Kon only being productive because of Flagg can hold up in light of that.

Because it is a 2.5 game sample size vs bad mediocre teams.

Ace Bailey had 39 points vs Indiana when Dylan Harper was out.

[KembaWalker]

I pretty sure if you put Tre Johnson at Duke instead of Kon he is in conversation the #2 pick with Harper. I will just never get this team if they take Kon at 4. At this point if they take Kon and he struggles to get minutes because of his poor movement they are being straight up abusive to fans

Kon's stock is riding off of Flagg's talent like MKG with AD. Time for us to get fooled again?

When Flagg went down in the ACC tournament, Kon's stats went up pretty much across the board. He was the tournament MVP and averaged 21 pts, 7 bds, and 5 ast on 48.7% FG.

Not sure how the narrative of Kon only being productive because of Flagg can hold up in light of that.

he had the big game in the first round against crappy GT team with Flagg playing half of it

the two games he played without Flagg he scored 17 and 18 pts. big whoop
he wasn't even Dukes leading scorer in the ACC championship

[fatlever]

Kon's stock is riding off of Flagg's talent like MKG with AD. Time for us to get fooled again?

When Flagg went down in the ACC tournament, Kon's stats went up pretty much across the board. He was the tournament MVP and averaged 21 pts, 7 bds, and 5 ast on 48.7% FG.

Not sure how the narrative of Kon only being productive because of Flagg can hold up in light of that.

Because it is a 2.5 game sample size vs bad mediocre teams.

Ace Bailey had 39 points vs Indiana when Dylan Harper was out.

wasn't harper out for a month?

Feel like these narratives can be spun a whole lot of different ways

- Kon shouldn't get credit for looking good because he was playing with a bunch of other great players.
- kon shouldn't get credit for playing well when the flagg went out because he was playing against mediocre teams
- Ace gets credit for scoring 39 points when Dylan Harper was out
- We can't blame Ace for playing bad in the games when Dylan Harper was out because he was the only good player on the team

I'm not saying this to be pro or con I'm just saying we can spin this a whole lot of different ways. It's all confirmation bias and we're all guilty of it to some degree. Have an opinion as a starting point and walk backwards from there to use whatever stats you want to pull out to support that argument.

[JMAC3]

When Flagg went down in the ACC tournament, Kon's stats went up pretty much across the board. He was the tournament MVP and averaged 21 pts, 7 bds, and 5 ast on 48.7% FG.

Not sure how the narrative of Kon only being productive because of Flagg can hold up in light of that.

Because it is a 2.5 game sample size vs bad mediocre teams.

Ace Bailey had 39 points vs Indiana when Dylan Harper was out.

wasn't harper out for a month?

Feel like these narratives can be spun a whole lot of different ways

- Kon shouldn't get credit for looking good because he was playing with a bunch of other great players.
- kon shouldn't get credit for playing well when the flagg went out because he was playing against mediocre teams
- Ace gets credit for scoring 39 points when Dylan Harper was out
- We can't blame Ace for playing bad in the games when Dylan Harper was out because he was the only good player on the team

I'm not saying this to be pro or con I'm just saying we can spin this a whole lot of different ways. It's all confirmation bias and we're all guilty of it to some degree. Have an opinion as a starting point and walk backwards from there to use whatever stats you want to pull out to support that argument.

Dylan Harper played in 29/32 games.

Three games without Harper
Ace had 39 pts vs Indiana 16/29 shooting
Ace had 37 pts vs NorthWestern 13/20 shooting
Ace had 10 pts vs Michigan 3/15.

So averaging 28.6 ppg on 50% fg%.

[JMAC3]

Because it is a 2.5 game sample size vs bad mediocre teams.

Ace Bailey had 39 points vs Indiana when Dylan Harper was out.

wasn't harper out for a month?

Feel like these narratives can be spun a whole lot of different ways

- Kon shouldn't get credit for looking good because he was playing with a bunch of other great players.
- kon shouldn't get credit for playing well when the flagg went out because he was playing against mediocre teams
- Ace gets credit for scoring 39 points when Dylan Harper was out
- We can't blame Ace for playing bad in the games when Dylan Harper was out because he was the only good player on the team

I'm not saying this to be pro or con I'm just saying we can spin this a whole lot of different ways. It's all confirmation bias and we're all guilty of it to some degree. Have an opinion as a starting point and walk backwards from there to use whatever stats you want to pull out to support that argument.

Dylan Harper played in 29/32 games.

Three games without Harper
Ace had 39 pts vs Indiana 16/29 shooting
Ace had 37 pts vs NorthWestern 13/20 shooting
Ace had 10 pts vs Michigan 3/15.

So averaging 28.6 ppg on 50% fg%.

This kind of proves a point I have been making for awhile. I haven't seen this stretch of games posted anywhere as a selling point on why to draft Ace, I just happened to look it up. You know how many times I have seen the Kon games in ACC tourney brought up? 10+ times easily because people have to in order to sell him on why he should be a high pick. Just not a great sign to me, but to each their own.

[fatlever]

Two out of three excellent games when Harper was out.
Should we discount the 37 points he had against northwestern because they were not a good team? no, i don't think so.

Either a small sample size of three games playing without a star player is enough or it's not enough? Either playing against mediocre teams counts or doesn't count?

[fatlever]

And I disagree because I've heard people point to the 39 point game that ace had when Harper was out every bit as many times as I've heard people point about Kon's ACC tournament run. My point being, people can see what they want to see when they already have their mind made up.

I'd personally lean towards both of those three game samples being pretty impressive for both of them.

[MasterIchiro]

You have your pros.

But don't forget about your Kon's.

[fatlever]

And my personal opinion would be that having a three game run during the ACC tournament including a ACC tournament finals is probably more important than games in the middle of the season. I'm not saying it's more impressive but I'm definitely saying those games were more important.

At the end of the day while both players had pretty impressive runs when the other star player was out, three games is a pretty insignificant sample size either way and probably not worth spending a whole lot of time talking about. If anything it may be just gives another lens to view a player in terms of how they might play with a little bit more burden on their shoulders. And it seems like both players stepped up in that situation.

[fatlever]

You have your pros.

But don't forget about your Kon's.

said with Konviction

[fatlever]

Can we at least agree that if we draft him and he gets randomly hot during a game that we call it Konvection Oven time

[JMAC3]

And I disagree because I've heard people point to the 39 point game that ace had when Harper was out every bit as many times as I've heard people point about Kon's ACC tournament run. My point being, people can see what they want to see when they already have their mind made up.

I'd personally lean towards both of those three game samples being pretty impressive for both of them.

You just said you thought Harper was out a month, so no I don't think it is the same thing because you clearly didn't know the situation fully.

If it isn't obvious I don't really care about what they did in either of those stretches because they are small sample sizes. Hence why I have never used this before to tell everyone how good Ace is when he doesn't play with Harper... I just think it is funny it is being used over and over again to tell us why Kon has this elite upside.

[MasterIchiro]

You have your pros.

But don't forget about your Kon's.

said with Konviction

for Miles Bridges, James Bouknight, and Presidents of The United States of America.

[GiggitySmalls]

are we doing 4 for 7 and 23?

idk about that. unless we can flip 23/33/34 to move up higher.

Which player are we targeting on the Pelicans?

This doesn't move the needle for me.

my dream is still herb, but i have no idea what value they place on him.

if vj is gone, id float 4, 33 and green for herb and 7 but who knows if that way off.

Something like 4 and green for herb 7 and 23 could get me excited. Maybe we add 33.

Sent from my SM-S936U using RealGM mobile app

[MasterIchiro]

Which player are we targeting on the Pelicans?

This doesn't move the needle for me.

my dream is still herb, but i have no idea what value they place on him.

if vj is gone, id float 4, 33 and green for herb and 7 but who knows if that way off.

Something like 4 and green for herb 7 and 23 could get me excited. Maybe we add 33.

Sent from my SM-S936U using RealGM mobile app

Yeah the Herb contract is smaller and he shouldn't cost additional assets like Tre Murphy III.

We could also make a case that we have plenty of touches occupied by LaMelo, Miller, and Miles where touches to Murphy hold marginal value over the ones that go to Miles. Murphy is not jumping Miller as a #2 option. Whereas, if we plan to rebuild the defense, we could really improve by adding someone like Herb Jones.

I love that Green disappears without a trace.

[NMBSurfin]

Espn's latest mock has VJ going at 3. His meetings with Philly have gone really well. He's also the one I wanted at 4. We've heard in the last few days we're open to trading back if our target is gone before us. They have drafting Kon at 4.