Stein/Fischer: Toronto willing to deal RJ Barrett, IQ, Poeltl for Significant Upgrades // #9 Available

[TGM]

I hope the interest in Sabonis is real. I’d love to see a a package of Sabonis and Monk for Poeltl, IQ, Dick, and 9.

I think the fit is great, Monk is the scoring guard we need and Sabonis is a huge rebounder and passer from the C position. Barnes and Ingram are capable wing defenders. Sabonis is a good big man defender.

Sabonis is an awful defender. Dont know where you have that from.

Well if you want a guy that does what he does and defends. Be ready to include another 5 unprotected first rounders and two swaps.

[bobbyp3588]

Trading for KD would be an awful decision.
He doesn’t turn us into a contender and the acquisition cost will cripple us for years after the experiment ends, predictably, poorly.
I’ve no doubt Masai would have been all in on Giannis were he to have come available, but I’m holding out hope Masai isn’t too desperate to make a big KD mistake.

[Lord_Zedd]

When you're trying to trade for anybody remotely available/known, it kind of gives the impression:
A. There is no over-arching plan.
B. Ownership has given you an ultimatum and you're desperate.

The third option is that they’re just accumulating assets if they think they’re getting good value.

But I think B might be a good bet.

Yep, this is very uncharacteristic of Masai. Shades of Colangelo chasing Steve Nash, and they're making it no secret in doing so.

All but a guarantee that Masai is good as gone next year regardless of what happens.... TFC and the Leafs don't have a president anymore

[Lord_Zedd]

Sabonis is empty calories. People here want Sabonis?

Well him, Ayton or non defensive bigs...... it's like people forgot how important it is to have a C who cares about defense.

Or, they do remember the tampa tank and low key want a top 4 pick in next year's draft.

[ArthurVandelay]

From reading Heat fan/blog comments, Ware seems to be the sticking point. If Ware was included, KD would be Miami bound imo.

[HangTime]

Trading for KD would be an awful decision.
He doesn’t turn us into a contender and the acquisition cost will cripple us for years after the experiment ends, predictably, poorly.
I’ve no doubt Masai would have been all in on Giannis were he to have come available, but I’m holding out hope Masai isn’t too desperate to make a big KD mistake.

Why does every big move have start with turning us into an instant a contender?
Primarily, I think There's a huge learning opportunity if KD's on the team, with a bunch of players who are all sponges. For me, that's the main thing.

Just think what someone like Ingram could learn from KD, in a better environment than the Pelicans.

Secondary, I do think a trio of Scottie / KD / Ingram could run the East.


I think Trading for Giannis would be the mistake, especially If the offer is Scottie + ______. We'd probably just into another version of the Bucks.

[bobbyp3588]

Trading for KD would be an awful decision.
He doesn’t turn us into a contender and the acquisition cost will cripple us for years after the experiment ends, predictably, poorly.
I’ve no doubt Masai would have been all in on Giannis were he to have come available, but I’m holding out hope Masai isn’t too desperate to make a big KD mistake.

Why does every big move have start with turning us into an instant a contender?
Primarily, I think There's a huge learning opportunity if KD's on the team, with a bunch of players who are all sponges. For me, that's the main thing.

Just think what someone like Ingram could learn from KD, in a better environment than the Pelicans.

Secondary, I do think a trio of Scottie / KD / Ingram could run the East.


I think Trading for Giannis would be the mistake, especially If the offer is Scottie + ______. We'd probably just into another version of the Bucks.

To each their own. I just couldn’t disagree more.
Trading multiple good young players with term and picks for the 38th calendar year of KD who like Kawhi will be one and done with us though unlike Kawhi doesn’t give us a realistic shot, is the absolute worst asset management imaginable. To me, anyway. Like effin ludicrous. lol. So nuts, in fact, that I don’t even believe we have any interest in KD at all.

[MiamiSPX]

Trading for KD would be an awful decision.
He doesn’t turn us into a contender and the acquisition cost will cripple us for years after the experiment ends, predictably, poorly.
I’ve no doubt Masai would have been all in on Giannis were he to have come available, but I’m holding out hope Masai isn’t too desperate to make a big KD mistake.

Why does every big move have start with turning us into an instant a contender?

Not instant but guys like KD and Giannis would want to know in advance what the plan is to get there as soon as possible. It's obvious what KD wants (warm weather no-tax State), so why would he agree to "hey, just come to Toronto and let's see how it goes". Miami is on his list for that scenario.

Same with thinking Masai can sell Giannis on "let's see how it goes, but it may take 2-3 years". In that case, Giannis will just stay in MIL, where he IS happy, all things considered.

[Kingsway_fan]

Trading for KD would be an awful decision.
He doesn’t turn us into a contender and the acquisition cost will cripple us for years after the experiment ends, predictably, poorly.
I’ve no doubt Masai would have been all in on Giannis were he to have come available, but I’m holding out hope Masai isn’t too desperate to make a big KD mistake.

Agreed. GIANNIS is the one worth it...

[canz55]

Lots of arguing here over nonsense....But i will piece it together that makes the most sense off all reports we got so far in the negotiations...

Timberwolves have the best offer on the table and Sun would accept the deal right now if they could....Issue is KD is refusing to go there or sign an extension there if traded....That takes Minny out because they are NOT willing to give up the package that they are offering if they do not get a KD commitment....So Suns atm are in fact trying hard to get KD to accept Minny and agree to stay there long term which as of now is NOT happening...

Raptors offer is prolly the 2nd best offer on the table atm with Yak/One of RJ/IQ + 9th pick.....Maybe both RJ/IQ but i don't see that being the case but have no idea....Unlike the Timberwolves Masai does not care if KD commits long term to us and is willing to take the gamble/risk even if it means giving up assets for a player who has the potential to walk in free agency....Which might make us in the drivers seat for KD if KD keeps his stance on not wanting to extend with Minny....

Spurs do not want to offer up their best package for KD as they are saving assets for if Giannis hits the market....So its unlikely they are in the KD race at all atm

Rockets could be doing the same as the Spurs and saving assets for Giannis and they maybe unwilling to up their offer to compete with Raps/Minny

Heat i don't think have the assets the Suns really want....They have more young players and not a great draft pick....So i don't think Suns like what Miami are giving them as well....

Its very possible KD is a Raptor if none of his prefered destinations up their offers (Which at this moment it seems like they are not upping them) And if KD does not accept to extend with Minny i doubt Minny takes the gamble on giving up so much for a rental....

KDs master plan is working to come play for his childhood team. Get them to pay as little as possible.

This is my thinking as well.

[ForeverTFC]

When you're trying to trade for anybody remotely available/known, it kind of gives the impression:
A. There is no over-arching plan.
B. Ownership has given you an ultimatum and you're desperate.

The third option is that they’re just accumulating assets if they think they’re getting good value.

But I think B might be a good bet.

Yep, this is very uncharacteristic of Masai. Shades of Colangelo chasing Steve Nash, and they're making it no secret in doing so.

All but a guarantee that Masai is good as gone next year regardless of what happens.... TFC and the Leafs don't have a president anymore

Think it goes deeper than Masai’s job. This is the year of Tanenbaum vs Rogers.

[arbsn]

Might make sense to do something around Quickley for KD just to clear IQs contract off the books. Would not include 9 but Quickley might be one of the worst contracts in the NBA. There might not be a deal that makes sense but I do not want to move RJ or 9.

[WuTang_CMB]

Read on Twitter

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[Tor_Raps]

Read on Twitter

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Ya you don't break a conference finals team for a 37 year old who doesnt want to be there.

You also don't ruin a rebuild for a 37 year old that doesn't want to be there lol.

[CazOnReal]

Read on Twitter

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Starting to look like another Kawhi "last offer standing" situation...

I really hope the 9th pick isn't on the table

[sbsat]

rumours are saying we are offering RJ or IQ, Poetl and the 9th pick for KD? Frig man that is a massive overpay.

[Gavin_TDThree]

Ref Sabonis' defense. I know DRTG is subjective based on the team around them.

DRTG he was above:

Siakam
OG
Kessler
Camara
RJ (no surprise)
DFS
Durant

He was similar to Okongwu, Vucevic (yikes), Bulter, Bane, Aldama and so on.

Basically the punchline is that he's not a great defender but he's not a complete tire fire. His DBPM was 1.1 which is 31st so not bad. His OBPM was 12th which is better than Durant, Irving, Mitchell, Cunningham, Victor, Young, Booker and so on. He's pretty elite on the offensive end.

On the offensive end he was 16th in ORTG so thats fun. Sabonis plugged in for Jakob 1 for 1 would be bad for our team's defence, fair. However if we improve the other defenders around him (ie no RJ) then I think we can make him work within a team context. Keep in mind that Barnes is a really good weak side defender.

All that being said, I don't think Sabonis is as bad defensively as we are making him out to be

[TheRaptor!]

Trading for KD would be an awful decision.
He doesn’t turn us into a contender and the acquisition cost will cripple us for years after the experiment ends, predictably, poorly.
I’ve no doubt Masai would have been all in on Giannis were he to have come available, but I’m holding out hope Masai isn’t too desperate to make a big KD mistake.

Why does every big move have start with turning us into an instant a contender?
Primarily, I think There's a huge learning opportunity if KD's on the team, with a bunch of players who are all sponges. For me, that's the main thing.

Just think what someone like Ingram could learn from KD, in a better environment than the Pelicans.

Secondary, I do think a trio of Scottie / KD / Ingram could run the East.


I think Trading for Giannis would be the mistake, especially If the offer is Scottie + ______. We'd probably just into another version of the Bucks.

To each their own. I just couldn’t disagree more.
Trading multiple good young players with term and picks for the 38th calendar year of KD who like Kawhi will be one and done with us though unlike Kawhi doesn’t give us a realistic shot, is the absolute worst asset management imaginable. To me, anyway. Like effin ludicrous. lol. So nuts, in fact, that I don’t even believe we have any interest in KD at all.

What if the Raptors dont want to extend Jakob to 30m a yr or re-sign RJ and theyre just acting proactively?

[TheRaptor!]

KDs master plan is working to come play for his childhood team. Get them to pay as little as possible.

This is my thinking as well.[/quote]

...and keep enough assets to trade for Giannis who will for sure want to play here if we have KD...and KD gets to ring chase. However we do need to clean the books to afford all of them...

RJ poetl future 2026 first for KD

Scottie Quick Dick Picks (3) for Giannis

Sign ring chasers and vet PG/Cs; CP3, Lopez/ Horford etc

[CazOnReal]

Ref Sabonis' defense. I know DRTG is subjective based on the team around them.

DRTG he was above:

Siakam
OG
Kessler
Camara
RJ (no surprise)
DFS
Durant

This should tell you that DRTG is a terrible way to evaluate a center's rim deterrence/rim protection capabilities