2025 Offseason Trade and Free Agency Thread (Wow this is fun!)

[Hal14]

Common sense. Hal, every year you fall in love with college players like they are a sure thing. A few years ago you were in love with Jordan Walsh. Walsh will be lucky if he is on the team next year. You don't trade players like Tatum, Brown, White for swings at the fence. Not when you are one year removed from a championship. Thank goodness Brad Stevens has more sense than posters in this forum.

Let's not make this personal. Let's stick to the subject matter. Jordan Walsh has nothing to do with this.

Massive difference between Jordan Walsh and Dylan Harper. If you can't see that, it's not even worth a discussion.

Dylan Harper is not a sure thing. Sorry. May never be as good of a shooter that he will need to be at the next level. Excellent prospect, not a sure thing.

I never said he was.

But let's also remember how we won the 2024 nba title. Tatum and Brown. How'd we get them? We traded for picks, those picks landed in the top 3 and we drafted them.

That strategy worked pretty good back then.

How about the Thunder? They traded a proven star Paul George for an unproven young player SGA..SGA was young, talented, not very proven in the NBA, was drafted outside the top 10 so he was a lesser prospect than Harper heading into the draft and lower ranked than Harper coming out of HS as well.

The Pacers? They traded a proven star Sabonis who had already made 2 all-star games, for a young, talented player who was less proven (at the time of the trade had made 0 all star games) in Haliburton. Now they're in the NBA finals. And Haliburton was a lesser prospect than Harper. Haliburton was also drafted outside of the top 10, was not recruited very heavily coming out of HS and his usage % was so low as a freshman because he wasn't that good yet and wasn't good enough to get drafted till after his sophomore year..meanwhile Harper as a freshman was one of the best players in college basketball.

[GrandTheftRondo]

Hilarious that anyone would advocate trading away a multiple time all star in their prime to draft a rookie who isn’t a sure thing.

Drafting rookies is a complete crapshoot unless you’re drafting a sure thing like a Duncan, LeBron, AD etc level talent.

You can talk them up all they like but at the end of the day it’s impossible to know how they’ll actually turn out in the NBA.

Maybe they end up at Jaylen’s level. But they could be a slow burn and take 5-6 years. They could be quick. They could also be completely garbage or simply just mediocre.

I’m sorry but in all my years watching the NBA time and time again I’ve heard fans, analysts, GMs etc sing the praises of some guy they’ve drafted and he turns out to completely suck or be very meh.

For every KD, there’s a Jeff Green, Thomas Robinson etc.

Brad thankfully isn’t stupid enough to trade Jaylen away for a pick that may one day be as good as him.

[Stan34]

I don’t think he can get #2.
Vassell, Barnes, 14 and a couple future picks seems realistic. I don’t think the Celtics are trading him though.

Delusional.

Inviato dal mio CPH2399 utilizzando Tapatalk

It’s delusional to believe the Cs are not trading Brown? How so?

It's delusional to underestimate Jaylen all the time.

Inviato dal mio CPH2399 utilizzando Tapatalk

[cl2117]

Throwing out this idea

Celtics Out: Jaylen Brown, Jrue, Hauser, #32
Celtics In: #2, Vassell, Gafford, PJ Washington, Anthony Black

Spurs Out: #2, Vassell, Barnes, 27 ATL first, 31 Kings first
Spurs In: Jaylen Brown

Mavericks Out: Gafford, Washington, Powell
Mavericks In: Jrue

Magic Out: Anthony Black, Jett Howard
Magic In: Sam Hauser, #32

Nets Out: Nothing
Nets IN: Harrison Barnes, Powell, Jett Howard, ATL 27, 31 SAC Kings first

Saves the celtics 32 mill. Might not be enough for the other teams

It's actually pretty good. I think you cut the Nets out and do separate deals to dump the extra bodies and keep more value.

People will argue the Spurs won't give that up but I wouldn't trade Brown for less. Mavs using PJ instead of Klay seems like it could be a sticking point for them. Magic depends on how much of a lost cause you presume Howard is at this stage. All in all though I can see it for each team and the value can be argued but it's not miles off.

Depending on which pieces Brad keeps, you're not going to be a contender straight away but you'll be able to be respectable and have the assets and salary ballast necessary to go get a big name guy when they get disgruntled and I'm hoping playing with JT and White is enough of a draw to keep us on the superstars short list of acceptable teams.

[Celts17Pride]

Let's not make this personal. Let's stick to the subject matter. Jordan Walsh has nothing to do with this.

Massive difference between Jordan Walsh and Dylan Harper. If you can't see that, it's not even worth a discussion.

Dylan Harper is not a sure thing. Sorry. May never be as good of a shooter that he will need to be at the next level. Excellent prospect, not a sure thing.

I never said he was.

But let's also remember how we won the 2024 nba title. Tatum and Brown. How'd we get them? We traded for picks, those picks landed in the top 3 and we drafted them.

That strategy worked pretty good back then.

and the Celtics waited 7 years! Tatum is not going to wait 7 years. Haliburton took 5 years to reach the NBA Finals.

[Stan34]

Let's not make this personal. Let's stick to the subject matter. Jordan Walsh has nothing to do with this.

Massive difference between Jordan Walsh and Dylan Harper. If you can't see that, it's not even worth a discussion.

Dylan Harper is not a sure thing. Sorry. May never be as good of a shooter that he will need to be at the next level. Excellent prospect, not a sure thing.

I never said he was.

But let's also remember how we won the 2024 nba title. Tatum and Brown. How'd we get them? We traded for picks, those picks landed in the top 3 and we drafted them.

That strategy worked pretty good back then.

How about the Thunder? They traded a proven start Paul George for an unproven young player SGA..SGA was young, talented, not very proven in the NBA, was drafted outside the top 10 so he was a lesser prospect than Harper heading into the draft and lower ranked than Harper coming out of HS as well.

The Pacers? They traded a proven star Sabonis who had already made 2 all-star games, for a young, talented player who was less proven (at the time of the trade had made 0 all star games) in Haliburton. Now they're in the NBA finals. And Haliburton was a lesser prospect than Harper. Haliburton was also drafted outside of the top 10, was not recruited very heavily coming out of HS and his usage % was so low as a freshman because he wasn't that good yet and wasn't good enough to get drafted till after his sophomore year..meanwhile Harper as a freshman was one of the best players in college basketball.

Celtics took 11 years to win a title after the trade with the Nets. If OKC wins, it's 6 years after trading PG-13.

Inviato dal mio CPH2399 utilizzando Tapatalk

[GrandTheftRondo]

Let's not make this personal. Let's stick to the subject matter. Jordan Walsh has nothing to do with this.

Massive difference between Jordan Walsh and Dylan Harper. If you can't see that, it's not even worth a discussion.

Dylan Harper is not a sure thing. Sorry. May never be as good of a shooter that he will need to be at the next level. Excellent prospect, not a sure thing.

I never said he was.

But let's also remember how we won the 2024 nba title. Tatum and Brown. How'd we get them? We traded for picks, those picks landed in the top 3 and we drafted them.

That strategy worked pretty good back then.

How about the Thunder? They traded a proven start Paul George for an unproven young player SGA..SGA was young, talented, not very proven in the NBA, was drafted outside the top 10 so he was a lesser prospect than Harper heading into the draft and lower ranked than Harper coming out of HS as well.

The Pacers? They traded a proven star Sabonis who had already made 2 all-star games, for a young, talented player who was less proven (at the time of the trade had made 0 all star games) in Haliburton. Now they're in the NBA finals. And Haliburton was a lesser prospect than Harper. Haliburton was also drafted outside of the top 10, was not recruited very heavily coming out of HS and his usage % was so low as a freshman because he wasn't that good yet and wasn't good enough to get drafted till after his sophomore year..meanwhile Harper as a freshman was one of the best players in college basketball.

What a ridiculous bunch of comparisons.

The Celtics got those picks from blowing up their last roster and embracing a complete rebuild for a few seasons and a heck of a lot went right quickly to make it very quick in terms of getting back up the East. In terms of actually competing for titles we didn’t truly start coming close until 9 years had passed since the trade.

The Thunder were a mid tier playoff team who know they were going to lose Paul George and cashed in to rebuild. SGA was also already an NBA player who had played actual NBA minutes and shown glimpses of what he’d become.

As for the Pacers. They smartly traded away a good NBA player in Sabonis for someone who was already playing and showing signs in the NBA.

None of these are even comparable to the Celtics trading away an all star who has been a proven winner with Tatum for a prospect who hasn’t played a single NBA minute while Tatum is in his prime.

And if you want to compare Tatum/Brown, SGA and Haliburton all being part of trades. None of them were immediately at the level Jaylen Brown is at right now.

Give me a break seriously.

[GrandTheftRondo]

Dylan Harper is not a sure thing. Sorry. May never be as good of a shooter that he will need to be at the next level. Excellent prospect, not a sure thing.

I never said he was.

But let's also remember how we won the 2024 nba title. Tatum and Brown. How'd we get them? We traded for picks, those picks landed in the top 3 and we drafted them.

That strategy worked pretty good back then.

How about the Thunder? They traded a proven start Paul George for an unproven young player SGA..SGA was young, talented, not very proven in the NBA, was drafted outside the top 10 so he was a lesser prospect than Harper heading into the draft and lower ranked than Harper coming out of HS as well.

The Pacers? They traded a proven star Sabonis who had already made 2 all-star games, for a young, talented player who was less proven (at the time of the trade had made 0 all star games) in Haliburton. Now they're in the NBA finals. And Haliburton was a lesser prospect than Harper. Haliburton was also drafted outside of the top 10, was not recruited very heavily coming out of HS and his usage % was so low as a freshman because he wasn't that good yet and wasn't good enough to get drafted till after his sophomore year..meanwhile Harper as a freshman was one of the best players in college basketball.

Celtics took 11 years to win a title after the trade with the Nets. If OKC wins, it's 6 years after trading PG-13.

Inviato dal mio CPH2399 utilizzando Tapatalk

Exactly. Why do we act like these things happen overnight?

Are we going to forget the immense growing pains Tatum and Brown went under?

Tatum was one of the quicker developers in the league over the last decade and even still I don’t think he truly came into his own until 2022 as a rounded mature player capable of taking us where we needed.

Personally, Brown isn’t worth his contract and in the right circumstance I’d consider a trade. However not for some unproven prospect who could turn into who knows what.

[cl2117]

It's foolish to reject out of hand trading Brown for young talent and picks. Would you swap him for Flagg? Of course, but Dallas aren't moving that pick, so what needs to get added to the next guy for you to bite? The question is what is the threshold you have to hit for it to start making sense.

If you can get #2, Vassell and some other picks for JB you have to consider it if there is a guy in that 2-4 big board group that you love.

Draft picks are like cars in that as soon as you drive them off the lot they lose value, but unlike cars if they perform well they go up in value too (look at Stephon Castle). We're not married to the guy we pick, you can turn around at swap them plus Vassell for a disgruntled star next summer and keep whatever change is leftover from what SAS gave us (now also probably with a higher lottery pick of our own).

I'm not writing off next year, but let's be real it's unlikely to be the Cinderella story we'd need it to be for it to bear fruit. So with that in context taking a year to develop a blue chip prospect either to trade or to keep isn't a bad idea especially given the cap considerations. It all comes down to the package we get in return.

[playa-hater]

Throwing out this idea

Celtics Out: Jaylen Brown, Jrue, Hauser, #32
Celtics In: #2, Vassell, Gafford, PJ Washington, Anthony Black

Spurs Out: #2, Vassell, Barnes, 27 ATL first, 31 Kings first
Spurs In: Jaylen Brown

Mavericks Out: Gafford, Washington, Powell
Mavericks In: Jrue

Magic Out: Anthony Black, Jett Howard
Magic In: Sam Hauser, #32

Nets Out: Nothing
Nets IN: Harrison Barnes, Powell, Jett Howard, ATL 27, 31 SAC Kings first

Saves the celtics 32 mill. Might not be enough for the other teams

This is too good for Boston, so sad to ay it won't happen. Unless Brad is even a Bigger genius than I thought.

[gammajamma]

Throwing out this idea

Celtics Out: Jaylen Brown, Jrue, Hauser, #32
Celtics In: #2, Vassell, Gafford, PJ Washington, Anthony Black

Spurs Out: #2, Vassell, Barnes, 27 ATL first, 31 Kings first
Spurs In: Jaylen Brown

Mavericks Out: Gafford, Washington, Powell
Mavericks In: Jrue

Magic Out: Anthony Black, Jett Howard
Magic In: Sam Hauser, #32

Nets Out: Nothing
Nets IN: Harrison Barnes, Powell, Jett Howard, ATL 27, 31 SAC Kings first

Saves the celtics 32 mill. Might not be enough for the other teams

This is too good for Boston, so sad to ay it won't happen. Unless Brad is even a Bigger genius than I thought.

Yeah it is hard to think of trades removing my Celtics bias lol

[Larry_Russell]

Tatum is already talking to his agent about where his next destination is going to be in the NBA. Tatum would have no interest staying on a rebuilding team during his prime years in my opinion

Do you have a source confirming the bold part?

Also, ddb said nothing about rebuilding. He's describing reloading for another title window, beginning when Tatum is back healthy.

If you get rid of Brown, Holiday, Horford, Porzingis and White then you are rebuilding. Tatum won't be sticking around for a rebuild. Look at Giannis, he is basically giving the Bucks one year to turn things around. Tatum would be doing the same thing. Tatum wants to win championships, not wait 3-5 years for rookies to develop.

If oyu trade brown it doesn mean you are getting rid of holiday, horford, white and Porzingis.

Its not a package deal.

Hypothetically if you traded brown for Harper and say Vassell and Barnes.

You can shop Jrue still (only makes sense as would be overloaded with combo gaurds - or keep him for the season and let Harper come off bench, but that seems wrong)

And you can shop another player if you so choose.

Vassell for example probably holds a fair bit of value to some teams and you can probably nab a PF for him.
Or maybe you make an offer for JJjr if memhis continues to tear down.

Point is, you trade brown you can still have the rest of the team

[Larry_Russell]

If you get rid of Brown, Holiday, Horford, Porzingis and White then you are rebuilding. Tatum won't be sticking around for a rebuild. Look at Giannis, he is basically giving the Bucks one year to turn things around. Tatum would be doing the same thing. Tatum wants to win championships, not wait 3-5 years for rookies to develop.

Tatum's not going to demand a trade while he's rehabbing his Achilles and he's not going to demand one his first year back. That's just not realistic. If the Celtics traded literally the entire roster for picks right now, which isn't going to happen but just playing along... they'd obviously be in position to make "win now" moves around him by the 27-28 season that maybe he'd start to think about demanding a trade ahead if the didn't.

The whole "Tatum will demand out if you trade too many guys" angle you keep pushing is way too dramatic. The moves themselves wouldn't lock you into that. Not following up with win now moves in the following couple of offseasons to build it back would be what makes him demand out.

Tatum is not spending his next 4 years of his contract playing for a Hawks/Kings type team. If Brown is traded it will be for another all-star. By year 3 you will be hearing rumblings of Tatum wanting out just like Giannis right now.

This forum is so ridiculous, just can't wait for the Celtics to be mediocre again so they can be happy.

No, you just cannot accept that if Brown was traded for youth and savings it doesnt mean we are a "tanking" team or sacramento,.

Tatum, White, KP, Jrue is a lethal team still. (assuming no other deals made)

[Larry_Russell]

Throwing out this idea

Celtics Out: Jaylen Brown, Jrue, Hauser, #32
Celtics In: #2, Vassell, Gafford, PJ Washington, Anthony Black

Spurs Out: #2, Vassell, Barnes, 27 ATL first, 31 Kings first
Spurs In: Jaylen Brown

Mavericks Out: Gafford, Washington, Powell
Mavericks In: Jrue

Magic Out: Anthony Black, Jett Howard
Magic In: Sam Hauser, #32

Nets Out: Nothing
Nets IN: Harrison Barnes, Powell, Jett Howard, ATL 27, 31 SAC Kings first

Saves the celtics 32 mill. Might not be enough for the other teams

This is too good for Boston, so sad to ay it won't happen. Unless Brad is even a Bigger genius than I thought.

Its not imposible, but I think that there is no need in Magic being included. Saving 22 million is enough.

[playa-hater]

Can we stop saying trading for a talented Rookie "isn't a Sure thing".. Of course it isn't. It would be a gamble. But some gambles are worth the risk. Some are not. That is where GM's have to make the Difficult decision. That's what can separate good-bad-great ones.

If this was a Brown for Cooper Flag proposal, would anyone say no? ( well I guess there is always someone) But point is, is it a sure thing Cooper (who I love) is a sure thing to end up better than Harper?

And this is more than just trading Brown the player. It is also trading Brown and his contract. THAT is totally being forgotten for some reason. Trading Brown gets Boston quite a few other players besides a talented rookie.

Can't prove it, but I would bet Stevens trades Brown if the possibility for #2 + plus players actually became possible. The ball is in SAS court.

[165bows]

It's foolish to reject out of hand trading Brown for young talent and picks. Would you swap him for Flagg? Of course, but Dallas aren't moving that pick, so what needs to get added to the next guy for you to bite? The question is what is the threshold you have to hit for it to start making sense.

If you can get #2, Vassell and some other picks for JB you have to consider it if there is a guy in that 2-4 big board group that you love.

Draft picks are like cars in that as soon as you drive them off the lot they lose value, but unlike cars if they perform well they go up in value too (look at Stephon Castle). We're not married to the guy we pick, you can turn around at swap them plus Vassell for a disgruntled star next summer and keep whatever change is leftover from what SAS gave us (now also probably with a higher lottery pick of our own).

I'm not writing off next year, but let's be real it's unlikely to be the Cinderella story we'd need it to be for it to bear fruit. So with that in context taking a year to develop a blue chip prospect either to trade or to keep isn't a bad idea especially given the cap considerations. It all comes down to the package we get in return.

It's just that all the slivers of reporting around a possible JB trade have been really clear, they would expect a mother lode. Vassell on his contract is a net neutral and not a guy they would want imo so they need an absolute kings ransom back and outside of Flagg it's not at all clear this draft has one.

And like I said above if the draft pick doesn't look amazing out of the gate they downgraded big time on court and took themselves out of the running next year when Jokic may change teams so it's option maybe D eg if Jaylen's knee is hamburger or something or the owner goes Major League on them.

[Celticlifer]

Vassell is one of those guys who can put up shots when there is nobody else on the team to do it better or more efficiently.
The Spurs had no wings to put up shots, so he got the job. Maybe somebody else likes him, I doubt Brad does.

[threrf23]

I mean, I like Vassell, still find myself going back to this:

https://valleytales.substack.com/p/devin-vassells-former-coach-this

[ThePigeon]

Can we stop saying trading for a talented Rookie "isn't a Sure thing".. Of course it isn't. It would be a gamble. But some gambles are worth the risk. Some are not. That is where GM's have to make the Difficult decision. That's what can separate good-bad-great ones.

If this was a Brown for Cooper Flag proposal, would anyone say no? ( well I guess there is always someone) But point is, is it a sure thing Cooper (who I love) is a sure thing to end up better than Harper?

And this is more than just trading Brown the player. It is also trading Brown and his contract. THAT is totally being forgotten for some reason. Trading Brown gets Boston quite a few other players besides a talented rookie.

Can't prove it, but I would bet Stevens trades Brown if the possibility for #2 + plus players actually became possible. The ball is in SAS court.

Would you trade Brown for Castle + Vassel? Fox + 14?
For 2nd + Vassel
I wouldn't

SA would trade one of Fox, Castle or 2nd (and I think they keep 2nd and trade Castle for Murphy III/Avdija type of player)
They won't keep all 3. I wouldn't trade Brown for any of them

A healthy Brown + White + PP would be good enough for the 6-7 playoff seed
2nd pick/Castle + White + PP = lottery and a pissed off JT

[Celts17Pride]

If you are Brad Stevens, the Spurs would have to include both the #2 and Castle in a Jaylen Brown trade in order for you to even think about it. The Spurs are not doing that. The Celtics won't do it without Castle and #2. It ain't happening.