The Jeremiah Fears Thread

[MasterIchiro]

In fact Kemba probably watched that UConn tournament game in person and had a front row seat to Fears. Fears carried a team as an 18 year old Freshman. Kemba's great winning streak happened Junior year.

Fears is ahead of the curve stocking wins.

[fatlever]

Watch on YouTube

;t=438s

the fears crowd will love this video

[fatlever]

do hope you guys watched this entire video and not just the first 5 minutes.

- They both make some excellent points regarding why they think fears has a higher ceiling but that ceiling is incredibly dependent on the team that drafts him giving him the keys to be their unquestioned number one point guard.
- They mentioned later on if if the Hornets had to choose between these two players who would they take. They both mentioned vj, For the reasons I think I've brought up as well, if you're drafting fears he has to be your point guard. There's not a world where he and melo Are going to exist in the same backward. If the plan is to move melo soon, Then fears makes a ton of sense more so than pretty much anyone else in our range. Otherwise you're basically drafting him to be the backup and play once melo gets hurt. Drafting a guide to be a backup at 4 is just too rich for me.
- My Hornet's specific big board has him lower but if I was just creating a general big board not specific to any team then I would certainly have him probably in the same tier as the other guys in our draft range.
- they didn't mention that fear really doesn't have any off ball intrigue as a player. Very heliocentric

re vj
- leif Is definitely pretty down on vj compared to the consensus. He does raise some very interesting points regarding his overrated defense and the fact that he didn't play on ball much. He keeps mentioning the comparisons to Anthony Edwards Donovan Mitchell and Dwyane Wade and honestly I think any one that's making those comparisons is pretty wildly off.

- Asked who they would take for the Hornets leif says kon. he also mentioned earlier in the video that he thinks kon It's a better defender right now than vj. That's one I hadn't heard before. He mentioned it in a collegiate setting not necessarily what is expected over the next few years in the league.

- tre over ace is mentioned .

- also like jaku

I will say of many of the draft heads that I've followed over the past few years leif Is one that I probably disagree with more than most at least in terms of what he looks for in players and some of the strong opinions he's had on players in previous years and I didn't necessarily agree with.

[MasterIchiro]

Terrifying stat of the day: VJ 15th percentile scoring at the rim when you subtract dunks.

Athlete who learned how to shoot - not a natural shooter. Guest says Fears is the better shooter.

Tertiary scoring option who depends on teammates drawing attention, needs aggressive closeouts to open runway to the rim (rare in halfcourt sets). Tertiary ballhandler.

Fears - uses his athleticism to get downhill - he's the one drawing attention, pressures the defense, creates opportunities for teammates, players like VJ benefit from Fears' rim pressure

He does not fit with LaMelo. But the star upside (all-NBA) makes him BPA and you have to make the most of your stay at 4.

PS

I don't have 30 min this morning. On my way to work soon. But the first 10 minutes merely confirmed everything I see in this draft.

100% for Fears.

100% against VJ.

[amcoolio]

I like Fears, but he basically has to be Dame Lillard or Allen Iverson or at the worst Ja Morant for a successful team to be built around him and that's a really hard ask. Whereas Tre Johnson has good size and wingspan, it's much easier to see a path for stardom.

[fatlever]

If you draft fears you are trading melo in the following 12 months. I don't think that's a controversial take or a hot take. The two of them are not going to be able to play together for any length of time. And you certainly aren't wasting a number 4 pick on a guy to be his backup. Makes absolutely no sense. Think fears is the guy enough to draft him at 4 then that's the signal that you're moving on from melo. There's no planet where those two function together offensively or defensively in a plus manner.

And I'm honestly fine with that path if that's the decision the team has chosen to go. But this isnt a situation where you just draft BPA and think figure it out later. Because you're clearly signaling to your superstar player who youth invested 200 million in that you've just drafted his replacement.

If you draft fears you're drafting him with the idea that within 12 months you're handing over the starting point guard position to him and you're letting him do his work as a very heliocentric type player.

draft fears = trade melo in next 12 months. I can't have a discussion if people aren't willing to equate those two things.

[JMAC3]

If you draft fears you are trading melo in the following 12 months. I don't think that's a controversial take or a hot take. The two of them are not going to be able to play together for any length of time. And you certainly aren't wasting a number 4 pick on a guy to be his backup. Makes absolutely no sense. Think fears is the guy enough to draft him at 4 then that's the signal that you're moving on from melo. There's no planet where those two function together offensively or defensively in a plus manner.

And I'm honestly fine with that path if that's the decision the team has chosen to go. But this isnt a situation where you just draft BPA and think figure it out later. Because you're clearly signaling to your superstar player who youth invested 200 million in that you've just drafted his replacement.

If you draft fears you're drafting him with the idea that within 12 months you're handing over the starting point guard position to him and you're letting him do his work as a very heliocentric type player.

draft fears = trade melo in next 12 months. I can't have a discussion if people aren't willing to equate those two things.

Bulls have Giddey and White
Cavs have Garland and Mitchell
Indy have Hali and Nembhard
Mavs had Luka and Kyrie
Pistons have Cade and Ivey
Rockets have FVV and drafted Reed 3rd
Sixers have Maxey and McCain
Blazers have Scoot and Simons
Spurs have Fox/Castle and about to Draft Harper

Living in the world where you can only have ball handling guard and the other has to play completely off the ball is just false if you look around the league. If you think Fears is good enough to draft at 4 and build the team around, then he is good enough to draft to play with another top 30 player.

[MasterIchiro]

Jesus, with Fears' ability to break the perimeter and touch the paint at will, creating open looks for a terrible Sooners team he carried to the tournament, I'd love to see him blow past the defense and whip a pass out to an NBA logo shooter like LaMelo (and Brandon Miller).

And since when is it hard to build around a player who can get you a paint touch nearly every trip?

Fears carries so much gravity. Surround him with real shooters and he will lay waste to every defense out there.

[MasterIchiro]

As far as defense. LaMelo can't pressure small, speedy opposing PG but Fears can. Someone has to guard quick dribble penetration and someone bigger alongside LaMelo might be better at guarding 2 or 3 than 1. Then what?

[JMAC3]

It is more realistic to me that Fears will be able to guard NBA point guards than Kon being able to guard NBA shooting guards.

Fears lane agility 10.95 (20th fastest)
Kon lane agility 11.92 (65th/70))

Fears shuttle 3.09 (52nd)
Kon shuttle 2.92 (19th fastest)

Fears 3/4 sprint 3.05 (3rd fastest)
Kon 3/4 sprint 3.35 (59th fastest)

Fears vertical 36.5
Kon vertical 36.5

Fears wingspan 6-5.25
Kon wingspan 6-6.5

[fatlever]

almost all those situations you posted there's someone who can defend (at least somewhat or at least has some heft) and there's someone with off ball juice. not the same as fears/melo backcourt. two twigs.
fears is 6-2, 180 lbs and needs the ball in his hands to be effective. If you think melo is going to move off ball for a 180 lb eighteen year old rookie... fears has no off-ball excitement. Makes no sense to draft him and put him off ball.
And that would probably be the worst defensive back court in the league easily.

I'm not saying this team doesn't need additional ball handlers and creators. Been saying that for years. I just do not believe in a fears/melo backcourt ever working.

you draft fears you're drafting him to be a backup or your trading melo in 12 months.

ivey is it really a point guard he's more of a combo guard. Plus he probably comes off the bench next year for the Pistons
reed Is a backup point guard until fvv is moved on. The Rockets didn't draft read to play him next to fvv
mccain Probably comes off the bench next year. Regardless that's still a better defensive backcourt than what we would have
giddey and white Both have size
simons Has offball juice and is not a heliocentric point guard
luka Has the size and weight of a forward so not really comparable. Plus Kyrie can play offball he did it for years with Le Bron, Because he's a great shooter. He's also a pretty decent defender when he wants to be.
I've been trying to trade Garland for years.
Castle isn't really a true point card nor is he heliocentric who needs the ball in his hands. He's basically a shooting guard and he's an excellent defender.

I'm not saying the Hornets don't need multiple ball handlers.. That is not the point. If you're trying to make that the point then that's just you moving the goal posts. you can't have two heliocentric point guards, both twigs, neither of which can defend and only one of them has any type of off ball game.

[fatlever]

It is more realistic to me that Fears will be able to guard NBA point guards than Kon being able to guard NBA shooting guards.

Fears lane agility 10.95 (20th fastest)
Kon lane agility 11.92 (65th/70))

Fears shuttle 3.09 (52nd)
Kon shuttle 2.92 (19th fastest)

Fears 3/4 sprint 3.05 (3rd fastest)
Kon 3/4 sprint 3.35 (59th fastest)

Fears vertical 36.5
Kon vertical 36.5

Fears wingspan 6-5.25
Kon wingspan 6-6.5

but can melo defend better than kon? because if fears is guarding your pg, then melo is guarding the sg or sf.
fears as poa defender is rough no matter how you slice it.

[fatlever]

You guys are taking this as a diss on fears. Like I've said, I have no issue with drafting him fourth but only if you have a plan to move melo. Otherwise it makes no sense. Just draft tre, who is taller a little bit heavier and the best shooter in the draft.and tre has passing chops.

[fatlever]

anyway... said my peace. im out on this discussion until there's a need to be talking about it again.

[JMAC3]

It is more realistic to me that Fears will be able to guard NBA point guards than Kon being able to guard NBA shooting guards.

Fears lane agility 10.95 (20th fastest)
Kon lane agility 11.92 (65th/70))

Fears shuttle 3.09 (52nd)
Kon shuttle 2.92 (19th fastest)

Fears 3/4 sprint 3.05 (3rd fastest)
Kon 3/4 sprint 3.35 (59th fastest)

Fears vertical 36.5
Kon vertical 36.5

Fears wingspan 6-5.25
Kon wingspan 6-6.5

but can melo defend better than kon? because if fears is guarding your pg, then melo is guarding the sg or sf.
fears as poa defender is rough no matter how you slice it.

Fears and Melo combo I have Fears on point guards and Melo on 2 guards- Melo will likely struggle vs 2 guards yes, but Fears is athletic, super fast, averaged 1.6 steals per game. I think athletically he can stick with most point guards, especially if Melo and him are splitting offensive load and they aren't 100% gassed from that side of the floor.

Melo and Kon combo. Kon can't guard 1s Lol. Kon can't guard 2s either, and Melo can't guard either.. so how is that better?

[JMAC3]

anyway... said my peace. im out on this discussion until there's a need to be talking about it again.

This is very weird energy lol

[fatlever]

anyway... said my peace. im out on this discussion until there's a need to be talking about it again.

This is very weird energy lol

I mean we're just going around in circles. So I'm agreeing to disagree. I mean if fears to Charlotte starts to pick up some steam or some of these melo Trade rumors pick up some steam then it's probably worth going down this road some more. Otherwise I know I'm not going to change your mind and you're not going to change my mind on this subject so... And that's okay. I don't really have anything further to add on this other than I just don't think it will work for the reasons I mentioned. And I'm fine with taking fears but I would want to follow that up with a subsequent trade of melo In the coming calendar year, That is all assuming that fears does look like a starting point guard in the making.

[JMAC3]

anyway... said my peace. im out on this discussion until there's a need to be talking about it again.

This is very weird energy lol

I mean we're just going around in circles. So I'm agreeing to disagree. I mean if fears to Charlotte starts to pick up some steam or some of these melo Trade rumors pick up some steam then it's probably worth going down this road some more. Otherwise I know I'm not going to change your mind and you're not going to change my mind on this subject so... And that's okay. I don't really have anything further to add on this other than I just don't think it will work for the reasons I mentioned. And I'm fine with taking fears but I would want to follow that up with a subsequent trade of melo In the coming calendar year, That is all assuming that fears does look like a starting point guard in the making.

I mean not really, you basically said if you don't agree with me then I can't discuss it. Then made some weird comment about how you are leaving the convo lol

draft fears = trade melo in next 12 months. I can't have a discussion if people aren't willing to equate those two things.

anyway... said my peace. im out on this discussion until there's a need to be talking about it again.

[MasterIchiro]

It is more realistic to me that Fears will be able to guard NBA point guards than Kon being able to guard NBA shooting guards.

Fears lane agility 10.95 (20th fastest)
Kon lane agility 11.92 (65th/70))

Fears shuttle 3.09 (52nd)
Kon shuttle 2.92 (19th fastest)

Fears 3/4 sprint 3.05 (3rd fastest)
Kon 3/4 sprint 3.35 (59th fastest)

Fears vertical 36.5
Kon vertical 36.5

Fears wingspan 6-5.25
Kon wingspan 6-6.5

but can melo defend better than kon? because if fears is guarding your pg, then melo is guarding the sg or sf.
fears as poa defender is rough no matter how you slice it.

Fears and Melo combo I have Fears on point guards and Melo on 2 guards- Melo will likely struggle vs 2 guards yes, but Fears is athletic, super fast, averaged 1.6 steals per game. I think athletically he can stick with most point guards, especially if Melo and him are splitting offensive load and they aren't 100% gassed from that side of the floor.

Melo and Kon combo. Kon can't guard 1s Lol. Kon can't guard 2s either, and Melo can't guard either.. so how is that better?

The steals are nice. Fears has quick hands/reactions/instincts and reads passing lanes well.

Underrated as a defender against the opposing PG. He is going to be a real pest.

And I believe hes going to gain strength. If you're some weak twig you're not producing a FTAR of .518 on speed alone. I've been a gym rat my whole life. I can see clearly that Fears has really high muscle density. He is much stronger than he looks.

Iverson played football. He looked like a twig drowning in his uniform, like a middle school punk wearing his dad's hand-me-down gear. Fearless. Got to the cup with speed, tight handles, burst, agility, and no fear of contact in an era when paint defenders could maul you.

Melo is the biggest pussy in the NBA.

[MasterIchiro]

And I only wish we took the twig Buzelis over the big-boned, more physical Salaün.

If you know what to do with the ball in your hands, and can get to where you want to go, break down the defense, touch the paint, pressure the rim, you don't have to bench press 300 lbs from the guard spot.