NBA Trade Thread #12

[Dan Z]

Would Charlotte consider Coby, #12 and Portland pick for Josh Green/Grant Williams and #4?

Cobys a NC native, Chicago gets VJ (hopefully) at #4.

I'd love VJ on the Bulls.

A man can dream.

I guess you think VJ is going to be a star...?

I'm not sure if the Bulls could take back three players in a trade, but I could be wrong.

Another issue is Charlotte looking to cut salary? And is AK will to take on salary?

It was meant to mean Josh Green or Grant Williams, both make around the same as Coby.

And yes, I'm very high on VJ.

Do you think Philly should draft VJ instead of Ace? I have mixed thoughts on that because Philly doesn't really need a guard.

[Muzbar]

I guess you think VJ is going to be a star...?

I'm not sure if the Bulls could take back three players in a trade, but I could be wrong.

Another issue is Charlotte looking to cut salary? And is AK will to take on salary?

It was meant to mean Josh Green or Grant Williams, both make around the same as Coby.

And yes, I'm very high on VJ.

Do you think Philly should draft VJ instead of Ace? I have mixed thoughts on that because Philly doesn't really need a guard.

I think Philly should trade out of the no. 3 spot, but if they don't. Take VJ, despite the guard problems. You can work that out later. Unless they really believe in Airious.

[sco]

Wonder how bad Philly wants out of the PG contract?

How would folks feel about: PG/Oubre for Vuc/PWill/Huerter/Por 1st?

[ghostinthepost1]

Wonder how bad Philly wants out of the PG contract?

How would folks feel about: PG/Oubre for Vuc/PWill/Huerter/Por 1st?

I don't see why the Bulls would take that contract without getting something for it.

Maybe something like PG/McCain for Vuc/Huerter/Lonzo

[sco]

Wonder how bad Philly wants out of the PG contract?

How would folks feel about: PG/Oubre for Vuc/PWill/Huerter/Por 1st?

I don't see why the Bulls would take that contract without getting something for it.

Maybe something like PG/McCain for Vuc/Huerter/Lonzo

I'd give way more to get McCain, but sure! Maybe removing Por 1st from the deal. I really like Oubre, and we'd be ridding ourselves of Vuc and PWill.

[Infinity2152]

We should not take PG13's contract. Period. He played 41, 74, 56, 31, 54 games the last 5 years. And now he's 35. With three years and over $160 mill left. I know everybody wants to take chances on rookies and young guys, but that $50+ mill/yr would be crippling for three years. We'll have to pay Matas before then. There are better options to get draft picks and/or young guys.

Getting rid of Pat Will's contract is the least of our problems. It doesn't even matter this year, and his value likely increases by next summer.

[sco]

If Bucks are looking to rebuild around Giannis, are there any deals that get us anything useful to be done? Maybe we can get their '27 first (subject to NOP swap)? Also was it AJ Green or Andre Jackson Jr. who looked somewhat promising last season? Thought it was one of them.

[Dez]

Wonder how bad Philly wants out of the PG contract?

How would folks feel about: PG/Oubre for Vuc/PWill/Huerter/Por 1st?

If we're taking Paul George then #3 is coming with him.

[Dan Z]

If Bucks are looking to rebuild around Giannis, are there any deals that get us anything useful to be done? Maybe we can get their '27 first (subject to NOP swap)? Also was it AJ Green or Andre Jackson Jr. who looked somewhat promising last season? Thought it was one of them.

They can't trade the 2027 pick because of the Stepien rule.

AJ Green is the one who showed some promise, but I don't know much about him (or Andre Jackson Jr). They don't have much to work with, but they also have Tyler Smith (who I know some people here were interested in at the draft last year).

[Infinity2152]

Wonder how bad Philly wants out of the PG contract?

How would folks feel about: PG/Oubre for Vuc/PWill/Huerter/Por 1st?

If we're taking Paul George then #3 is coming with him.

Even if it is, that' still a huge risk, imo. The rookie you draft almost HAS to be a franchise player for it to work. We're talking about giving up assets to pay PG13 and a rookie over $65 mill/yr AAV the next three years. By the time Georges contract is up, the rookie's almost at free agency. Over those three years you could have added a star level player and another with $65 mill, and you're getting $55-75 mill worth of value back. Counting Georges value at zero, he played 41 games last season with a PER under 15. he's replacement level and getting older. Your rookie needs to be worth $50+ mill immediately, versus signing or trading for guaranteed high level talent with that money.

If the rookie is star level, you could easily get that with $50-$60 mill. He has to be superstar level. George being in and out the starting lineup for 3 years isn't great either, and he's not coming off the bench.

[Dez]

Wonder how bad Philly wants out of the PG contract?

How would folks feel about: PG/Oubre for Vuc/PWill/Huerter/Por 1st?

If we're taking Paul George then #3 is coming with him.

Even if it is, that' still a huge risk, imo. The rookie you draft almost HAS to be a franchise player for it to work. We're talking about giving up assets to pay PG13 and a rookie over $60 mill/yr the next three years. By the time Georges contract is up, the rookie's almost at free agency. Over those three years you could have added a star level player and another with $60 mill, and you're getting $50-70 mill worth of value back. Counting Georges value at zero, he played 41 games last season with a PER under 15. he's replacement level and getting older. Your rookie needs to be worth $50+ mill immediately, versus signing or trading for guaranteed high level talent with that money.

Even if the rookie is star level, you could easily get that with $50-$60 mill. He has to be superstar level.

It's not a risk, the Bulls aren't attracting anyone with cap space. What PG makes is irrelevant, the goal is to maximise our chances at drafting a future star.

[kodo]

Wonder how bad Philly wants out of the PG contract?

How would folks feel about: PG/Oubre for Vuc/PWill/Huerter/Por 1st?

The rumored trade is Philly trading #3 for #5 (Utah), and in return Utah takes on Paul George's contract. The matching contract is probably Lauri, so not a lot of savings. But Philly isn't looking to move down much.

[Infinity2152]

If we're taking Paul George then #3 is coming with him.

Even if it is, that' still a huge risk, imo. The rookie you draft almost HAS to be a franchise player for it to work. We're talking about giving up assets to pay PG13 and a rookie over $60 mill/yr the next three years. By the time Georges contract is up, the rookie's almost at free agency. Over those three years you could have added a star level player and another with $60 mill, and you're getting $50-70 mill worth of value back. Counting Georges value at zero, he played 41 games last season with a PER under 15. he's replacement level and getting older. Your rookie needs to be worth $50+ mill immediately, versus signing or trading for guaranteed high level talent with that money.

Even if the rookie is star level, you could easily get that with $50-$60 mill. He has to be superstar level.

It's not a risk, the Bulls aren't attracting anyone with cap space. What PG makes is irrelevant, the goal is to maximise our chances at drafting a future star.

What PG makes is not irrelevant, any more than Lonzo Ball's $20 mill contract was irrelevant or Zach Lavine's contract was irrelevant or Pat Will's contract is irrelevant. Again, I said give up assets to pay them. You could use those same assets and go after a $50-60 mill player that actually plays right now if you wanted. What assets do you have going to get PG13 and pick #3? Probably take at least Vucevic, Huerter and one of Ball, Ayo, or Coby to match the money and start the conversation. They probably want pick #12.

Bulls don't have to attract anyone with cap space. It's opportunity cost. You want to give up all that to get pick 3, which may or may not be great, and take back 55 mill dead money for three years. With those same trade pieces (plus $10 mill for pick 3), what's the best player(s) we could get in trade? Zion? De Aaron Fox? He's expiring, they draft Harper, they may not want to pay Fox. Trae Young has a player option for 2026, and Capela's a free agent, may be a move there. Probably be easy to trade for Porzingas and Holiday, we might even get a pick back instead of sending a pick. Team would be hella good with healthy Ball, Jrue and/or Porzingas right now, maybe top 3 in the East. That's not even including our rookie we get at 12. Talked about getting Lively with one of those pieces, alone he might be better than whoever's at pick 3. Maybe Lauri at $46 mill. Brandon Ingram.

I'm just saying star names. With a package of Vuc, Huerter, Ball and pick #12, we could probably get any number of stars very likely to be better than pick 3.

We talked about getting picks and players with the same pieces you're sending for pick 3 and that dead money. It's not just cap space vs pick three, it's everything we could get with those trade pieces and that amount of cap vs pick three and totally broken salary cap after Giddey and Matas get paid. Like I said, it only works if pick 3 is a superstar. I didn't say it couldn't work. But you can get a star with that package, and not have a dead player on your books. I'm sure these aren't star names you like, you believe heartily whoever is picked at 3 is likely to be better than Brandon Ingram. Who do you think has the better odds?

[Infinity2152]

Been thinking about the Kuminga sign and trade idea. Wouldn't that be really hard, since we can only send back half in salary? Meaning if we sent Vucevic, we would have to take back $40 mill for Kuminga. Coby or Pat Will seem like the only options, and Pat Will would mean a $36 mill contract AAV for Kuminga. Don't see us trading Coby for Kuminga, i wouldn't.

Am I seeing this wrong somewhere?

[giberish]

Been thinking about the Kuminga sign and trade idea. Wouldn't that be really hard, since we can only send back half in salary? Meaning if we sent Vucevic, we would have to take back $40 mill for Kuminga. Coby or Pat Will seem like the only options, and Pat Will would mean a $36 mill contract AAV for Kuminga. Don't see us trading Coby for Kuminga, i wouldn't.

Am I seeing this wrong somewhere?

The Bulls would have to use a TPE to make it work. Kuminga on a $18M/yr contract can start small enough to fit into a TPE then send back Smith (who, unlike Vuc, would actually play for GS).

Or if Kuminga's getting much more than I expect the Bulls also take in Moody into a TPE to make the deal legal with BYC issues (many options for what gets sent back).

[Infinity2152]

Been thinking about the Kuminga sign and trade idea. Wouldn't that be really hard, since we can only send back half in salary? Meaning if we sent Vucevic, we would have to take back $40 mill for Kuminga. Coby or Pat Will seem like the only options, and Pat Will would mean a $36 mill contract AAV for Kuminga. Don't see us trading Coby for Kuminga, i wouldn't.

Am I seeing this wrong somewhere?

The Bulls would have to use a TPE to make it work. Kuminga on a $18M/yr contract can start small enough to fit into a TPE then send back Smith (who, unlike Vuc, would actually play for GS).

Or if Kuminga's getting much more than I expect the Bulls also take in Moody into a TPE to make the deal legal with BYC issues (many options for what gets sent back).

Thanks. There's no way Kuminga is getting signed and traded for $18 mill, the Warriors probably have to just keep him at that price, lol. Didn't think about Smith, him or Ball would be possible. With Vucevic, TPE doesn't seem like it would be much help. Unless we're taking an expensive player from them. Say Kuminga signs for $25 mill. We send Vucevic. He counts for $12.5 mill to them, so they need to send another $7.5 mill to equal Vucevic. Moody might be close enough at $11.6 mill, but they're going to want picks if all their getting is Vucevic for Kuminga and Moody. Might be able to squeeze Phillips in, think Terry and Ayo make too much. They can't use our exception to absorb more cap right?

Smith or Ball seem much more workable, though.

[giberish]

Been thinking about the Kuminga sign and trade idea. Wouldn't that be really hard, since we can only send back half in salary? Meaning if we sent Vucevic, we would have to take back $40 mill for Kuminga. Coby or Pat Will seem like the only options, and Pat Will would mean a $36 mill contract AAV for Kuminga. Don't see us trading Coby for Kuminga, i wouldn't.

Am I seeing this wrong somewhere?

The Bulls would have to use a TPE to make it work. Kuminga on a $18M/yr contract can start small enough to fit into a TPE then send back Smith (who, unlike Vuc, would actually play for GS).

Or if Kuminga's getting much more than I expect the Bulls also take in Moody into a TPE to make the deal legal with BYC issues (many options for what gets sent back).

Thanks. There's no way Kuminga is getting signed and traded for $18 mill, the Warriors probably have to just keep him at that price, lol. Didn't think about Smith, him or Ball would be possible. With Vucevic, TPE doesn't seem like it would be much help. Unless we're taking an expensive player from them. Say Kuminga signs for $25 mill. We send Vucevic. He counts for $12.5 mill to them, so they need to send another $7.5 mill to equal Vucevic. Moody might be close enough at $11.6 mill, but they're going to want picks if all their getting is Vucevic for Kuminga and Moody. Might be able to squeeze Phillips in, think Terry and Ayo make too much. They can't use our exception to absorb more cap right?

Smith or Ball seem much more workable, though.

I don't see why $18M/yr is hard to believe for Kuminga. Unless the Nets have interest (and it doesn't look like they do) anything over MLE money will look good to him. Given the inconsistent use with the Warriors I think they'd do a S&T for mild positive value that's a reasonable fit (Vuc isn't positive value, Smith is the sort of mild positive value that makes sense). Granted if they can't work out a S&T deal then I'd expect him to resign with GS on a similar deal then be on the market for midseason deals (where S&T and BYC logistics wouldn't apply making more trades possible).

I think the big question for Chicago is whether Kuminga and Buzilis can play together. If they can't then there's no point in adding JK.

[Hangtime84]

Wonder how bad Philly wants out of the PG contract?

How would folks feel about: PG/Oubre for Vuc/PWill/Huerter/Por 1st?

If we're taking Paul George then #3 is coming with him.

Even if it is, that' still a huge risk, imo. The rookie you draft almost HAS to be a franchise player for it to work. We're talking about giving up assets to pay PG13 and a rookie over $65 mill/yr AAV the next three years. By the time Georges contract is up, the rookie's almost at free agency. Over those three years you could have added a star level player and another with $65 mill, and you're getting $55-75 mill worth of value back. Counting Georges value at zero, he played 41 games last season with a PER under 15. he's replacement level and getting older. Your rookie needs to be worth $50+ mill immediately, versus signing or trading for guaranteed high level talent with that money.

If the rookie is star level, you could easily get that with $50-$60 mill. He has to be superstar level. George being in and out the starting lineup for 3 years isn't great either, and he's not coming off the bench.

PG best years were with Billy. I do have faith in knowing what Billy can do with maximizing PG talents over Nurse. That was one thing PG and DeMar mentioned whenever he asked about joining the bulls. Outside of asking current bulls players at the time.

[Infinity2152]

The Bulls would have to use a TPE to make it work. Kuminga on a $18M/yr contract can start small enough to fit into a TPE then send back Smith (who, unlike Vuc, would actually play for GS).

Or if Kuminga's getting much more than I expect the Bulls also take in Moody into a TPE to make the deal legal with BYC issues (many options for what gets sent back).

Thanks. There's no way Kuminga is getting signed and traded for $18 mill, the Warriors probably have to just keep him at that price, lol. Didn't think about Smith, him or Ball would be possible. With Vucevic, TPE doesn't seem like it would be much help. Unless we're taking an expensive player from them. Say Kuminga signs for $25 mill. We send Vucevic. He counts for $12.5 mill to them, so they need to send another $7.5 mill to equal Vucevic. Moody might be close enough at $11.6 mill, but they're going to want picks if all their getting is Vucevic for Kuminga and Moody. Might be able to squeeze Phillips in, think Terry and Ayo make too much. They can't use our exception to absorb more cap right?

Smith or Ball seem much more workable, though.

I don't see why $18M/yr is hard to believe for Kuminga. Unless the Nets have interest (and it doesn't look like they do) anything over MLE money will look good to him. Given the inconsistent use with the Warriors I think they'd do a S&T for mild positive value that's a reasonable fit (Vuc isn't positive value, Smith is the sort of mild positive value that makes sense). Granted if they can't work out a S&T deal then I'd expect him to resign with GS on a similar deal then be on the market for midseason deals (where S&T and BYC logistics wouldn't apply making more trades possible).

I think the big question for Chicago is whether Kuminga and Buzilis can play together. If they can't then there's no point in adding JK.

EVERY article I'm reading is predicting more than $18 mill for Kuminga. He turned down $30 mill. That's why it's hard to believe. Not saying it can't happen, saying it's not likely. If he honestly believes he's worth $30 mill, would make way more sense to play on the QO and enter FA next year rather than take $18 mill. He has a $8 mill QO. Take $10 mill less this year to enter a much stronger FA and get an extra 12 mill, maybe $15-20 AAV for the next 4 years. Kuminga would have to agree to a S&T at $18 mill, the Warriors can't just do it.

Not a big fan of a Kuminga push. But I try to look at trades value based, rather than would or could we or another team do it. Get into so many arguments about what a team won't do, then another team does something that seems more unlikely 5 minutes later. Fine with discussing should we do it, but whether AK thinks we should do it, I have no idea. What the warriors would want or take at minimum, very little idea. Just like everybody else.

Can't answer whether Kuminga or Buz can play together before they do it. Kuminga's coming into an entirely different offense here, and his contract is based on potential rather than performance. Nobody knows what type of player we see next year. Physically shouldn't be a problem, both are forwards with good length and athleticism. The risk is fairly minimal if we're not giving up much. Kuminga's young, his contract should be easily tradeable if it doesn't work.

[Infinity2152]

If we're taking Paul George then #3 is coming with him.

Even if it is, that' still a huge risk, imo. The rookie you draft almost HAS to be a franchise player for it to work. We're talking about giving up assets to pay PG13 and a rookie over $65 mill/yr AAV the next three years. By the time Georges contract is up, the rookie's almost at free agency. Over those three years you could have added a star level player and another with $65 mill, and you're getting $55-75 mill worth of value back. Counting Georges value at zero, he played 41 games last season with a PER under 15. he's replacement level and getting older. Your rookie needs to be worth $50+ mill immediately, versus signing or trading for guaranteed high level talent with that money.

If the rookie is star level, you could easily get that with $50-$60 mill. He has to be superstar level. George being in and out the starting lineup for 3 years isn't great either, and he's not coming off the bench.

PG best years were with Billy. I do have faith in knowing what Billy can do with maximizing PG talents over Nurse. That was one thing PG and DeMar mentioned whenever he asked about joining the bulls. Outside of asking current bulls players at the time.

Not talking about PG's talent, though as a guard that's declining with age. He's not as fast or jumps as high at 35, 36, 37. He's not getting healthier. Don't think a new coach is going to make him more durable. Rarely healthy and having a starter jump in and out the lineup all season with a young team we're just putting together is chaotic. He's averaged about 45 games, or little more than half a season. Do the Bulls have a history of players getting healthier when they get here, lol? Billy didn't affect Lonzo or Lavine's or Pat Will's health.