Around The NBA : 2024-25 Season

[Dan Z]

Everything broke right for OKC. Presti made great moves, SGA turned out to be even better than he thought, Holmgren was among the few high-drafted centers who truly delivered, and JWill was a star #12 pick.

Smart, hard working, and fortunate is the way to go through life.

I agree, but also put himself in that position.

He made a few mistakes a long the way (for example, trading Sengun), but he stayed patient and stuck to his overall plan.

[Ice Man]

I agree, but also put himself in that position.

I did give fortune only 1/3rd of the credit.

[Dan Z]

I agree, but also put himself in that position.

I did give fortune only 1/3rd of the credit.

I bring that up because many GM's don't put themselves in a good position where they can take advantage of it. AK for example.

Sigh.

[Dan Z]

This was a crazy dunk last night:

https://www.nba.com/watch/video/aaron-nesmith-throws-it-down-3

[kodo]

Everything broke right for OKC. Presti made great moves, SGA turned out to be even better than he thought, Holmgren was among the few high-drafted centers who truly delivered, and JWill was a star #12 pick.

Smart, hard working, and fortunate is the way to go through life.

I agree, but also put himself in that position.

He made a few mistakes a long the way (for example, trading Sengun), but he stayed patient and stuck to his overall plan.

The key thing about Presti is that he didn't build through just the draft, just trades, or just free agency. He put his bets on everything.
Trade for young player: SGA
Traded for mid picks: Jalen Williams
Tank their own pick to top 3: Chet
Free Agency: Hartenstein
Trade for Vet: Caruso
Develop 2-Way: Lu Dort

He also refused to bend to what everyone in OKC wanted, for him to cash in his war chest for a big name like Durant. And I'm sure the war drums are beating again for Giannis. This isn't a new thing, OKC has wanted him to trade his war chest for years now and he's had to fight both fans & media off every year. I say just let the man cook, he obviously knows how to this better than everyone else, stop telling him how to build a team.

[Jcool0]

Wow Buss family selling controlling stake in Lakers... for 10 BILLION... Bulls could get what 8?

[drosestruts]

Everything broke right for OKC. Presti made great moves, SGA turned out to be even better than he thought, Holmgren was among the few high-drafted centers who truly delivered, and JWill was a star #12 pick.

Smart, hard working, and fortunate is the way to go through life.

I agree, but also put himself in that position.

He made a few mistakes a long the way (for example, trading Sengun), but he stayed patient and stuck to his overall plan.

It is interesting when looking at AK/ME's attempt to speed run a contender and what Presti built over time

They both added Caruso

I'll argue forever that Ball was a good addition whose just had terrible injury luck, great POA defender and good 3-point shooter like a Lu Dort

Their high draft pick was Chet, ours was Williams. They did much better there, nice not drafting in the covid year I imagine.

Jalen Williams and Zach LaVine both very good young scorers

DeRozan was in the MVP conversation in 2020-21 during the first half of the year, obviosuly he's nowhere near as good as SGA in several areas (playmaking, defense) - but both are great midrange scorers who excel at getting to the line, both limit turnover and mistakes.

The biggest gap - yes even bigger than Chet/Williams - has to be OKC signing Hartenstein and Chicago trading two 1sts for Vucevic. A mistake they compounded on by re-signing him.

The difference between contender and pretender can come down to 1 or 2 players and some health.

We could have just signed Hartenstein in 2020 instead of trading for Vuc, and kept two 1sts, and probably kept Lauri.

[Dan Z]

Everything broke right for OKC. Presti made great moves, SGA turned out to be even better than he thought, Holmgren was among the few high-drafted centers who truly delivered, and JWill was a star #12 pick.

Smart, hard working, and fortunate is the way to go through life.

I agree, but also put himself in that position.

He made a few mistakes a long the way (for example, trading Sengun), but he stayed patient and stuck to his overall plan.

It is interesting when looking at AK/ME's attempt to speed run a contender and what Presti built over time

They both added Caruso

I'll argue forever that Ball was a good addition whose just had terrible injury luck, great POA defender and good 3-point shooter like a Lu Dort

Their high draft pick was Chet, ours was Williams. They did much better there, nice not drafting in the covid year I imagine.

Jalen Williams and Zach LaVine both very good young scorers

DeRozan was in the MVP conversation in 2020-21 during the first half of the year, obviosuly he's nowhere near as good as SGA in several areas (playmaking, defense) - but both are great midrange scorers who excel at getting to the line, both limit turnover and mistakes.

The biggest gap - yes even bigger than Chet/Williams - has to be OKC signing Hartenstein and Chicago trading two 1sts for Vucevic. A mistake they compounded on by re-signing him.

The difference between contender and pretender can come down to 1 or 2 players and some health.

We could have just signed Hartenstein in 2020 instead of trading for Vuc, and kept two 1sts, and probably kept Lauri.

As Doug has pointed out AK would've done better if he didn't make any trades.

I think the Ball trade was fine, even though it was always a risk due to his health. Once he got hurt, and the team fell apart, then it was time to start thinking about what to do going forward. AK waited too long to do that.

The big difference is that Presti has a plan and has stuck to it. He took advantage of a fortunate opportunity with the PG trade (who knows what another GM does) and continued to acquire assets. It's how he was able to draft someone like Jalen Williams and has maintained flexibility going forward.

He was also smart enough to realize that Giddey wasn't a part of the future and traded him for Caruso. Hartenstein was another smart move because he knew that the Knicks couldn't offer him much (due to rules) and that he could step in and get him.

I remember when Hartenstein was a free agent (before he went to the Knicks) and suggested that the Bulls should sign him. It was quickly pointed out to me that Harteinstein would put them in the luxury tax and that the Bulls wouldn't do that.

I wouldn't compare OKC and the Bulls....one is on the verge of winning a championship and the other hasn't been able to win a play-in game. I wish AK would take notes about what Presti has done over the years, but based on what AK has said he doesn't plan very far into the future. Plus, I've often said that he doesn't value picks very much. To me, that sounds like the opposite of Presti.

[kodo]

It is interesting when looking at AK/ME's attempt to speed run a contender and what Presti built over time

They both added Caruso

I'll argue forever that Ball was a good addition whose just had terrible injury luck, great POA defender and good 3-point shooter like a Lu Dort

Their high draft pick was Chet, ours was Williams. They did much better there, nice not drafting in the covid year I imagine.

Jalen Williams and Zach LaVine both very good young scorers

DeRozan was in the MVP conversation in 2020-21 during the first half of the year, obviosuly he's nowhere near as good as SGA in several areas (playmaking, defense) - but both are great midrange scorers who excel at getting to the line, both limit turnover and mistakes.

The biggest gap - yes even bigger than Chet/Williams - has to be OKC signing Hartenstein and Chicago trading two 1sts for Vucevic. A mistake they compounded on by re-signing him.

The difference between contender and pretender can come down to 1 or 2 players and some health.

We could have just signed Hartenstein in 2020 instead of trading for Vuc, and kept two 1sts, and probably kept Lauri.

The biggest difference is that Presti is OK with winning 22 games to win a championship eventually. It really was just a few years ago, 2022, that OKC was a 24 win team. The team that Billy didn't want to rebuild with.

If you throw out AK's first year as a transition year, AK has never won less than 39 games and averages 41 wins per season. I'm sure that's his goal to never be a bad team, and he's accomplished that. And I'm sure this has come up in whatever extension talks are happening / has happened.

But to take a break from bashing AK non-stop for years, he was literally a coin flip away from a probable championship foundation. Flagg, Matas, Giddey, Coby as a base (make whatever trades you want with Giddey / Coby, or keep one). Luck is always required, and you don't always have to be terrible to benefit from luck, like Giannis for Milwaukee.

[Dan Z]

It is interesting when looking at AK/ME's attempt to speed run a contender and what Presti built over time

They both added Caruso

I'll argue forever that Ball was a good addition whose just had terrible injury luck, great POA defender and good 3-point shooter like a Lu Dort

Their high draft pick was Chet, ours was Williams. They did much better there, nice not drafting in the covid year I imagine.

Jalen Williams and Zach LaVine both very good young scorers

DeRozan was in the MVP conversation in 2020-21 during the first half of the year, obviosuly he's nowhere near as good as SGA in several areas (playmaking, defense) - but both are great midrange scorers who excel at getting to the line, both limit turnover and mistakes.

The biggest gap - yes even bigger than Chet/Williams - has to be OKC signing Hartenstein and Chicago trading two 1sts for Vucevic. A mistake they compounded on by re-signing him.

The difference between contender and pretender can come down to 1 or 2 players and some health.

We could have just signed Hartenstein in 2020 instead of trading for Vuc, and kept two 1sts, and probably kept Lauri.

The biggest difference is that Presti is OK with winning 22 games to win a championship eventually. It really was just a few years ago, 2022, that OKC was a 24 win team. The team that Billy didn't want to rebuild with.

If you throw out AK's first year as a transition year, AK has never won less than 39 games and averages 41 wins per season. I'm sure that's his goal to never be a bad team, and he's accomplished that. And I'm sure this has come up in whatever extension talks are happening / has happened.

But to take a break from bashing AK non-stop for years, he was literally a coin flip away from a probable championship foundation. Flagg, Matas, Giddey, Coby as a base (make whatever trades you want with Giddey / Coby, or keep one). Luck is always required, and you don't always have to be terrible to benefit from luck, like Giannis for Milwaukee.

39-41 wins is a bad team.

I agree that luck helps, but that doesn't have anything to do with the poor job AK has done as GM.

EDIT: I should add that I do agree with you about Presti. This year should've been AK's "22 win" season because they got their pick back. I thought they should've done that in 2023 too, even though they owed a pick to Orlando (taking a chance to get Wemby would be worth it IMO, but I understand why AK didn't do that).

[Michael Jackson]

Wow Buss family selling controlling stake in Lakers... for 10 BILLION... Bulls could get what 8?

I still don’t think that high but easily 5 with the new market correction if the 10 bil tag. Honestly it is likely peak value to sell right now as returns have been predicted to stall. Not dip but plateau. Now woukd really be the smart time to sell everyone else from Cuban to Boston to LA has done it. It’s peak

[Ice Man]

The biggest gap - yes even bigger than Chet/Williams - has to be OKC signing Hartenstein and Chicago trading two 1sts for Vucevic. A mistake they compounded on by re-signing him.

The difference between contender and pretender can come down to 1 or 2 players and some health.

We could have just signed Hartenstein in 2020 instead of trading for Vuc, and kept two 1sts, and probably kept Lauri.

I never thought about it that way, but yeah. With health and signing a 3&D guy instead of DDR, this team could have been -

Ball/Caruso
LaVine
3&D wing
Lauri
Hartenstein/WCJ

Plus two firsts.

You could do damage with that group. Probably a superstar short (as with most other good teams, such as Indy, the Knicks, and the Cavs), but in the hunt.

[sco]

The biggest gap - yes even bigger than Chet/Williams - has to be OKC signing Hartenstein and Chicago trading two 1sts for Vucevic. A mistake they compounded on by re-signing him.

The difference between contender and pretender can come down to 1 or 2 players and some health.

We could have just signed Hartenstein in 2020 instead of trading for Vuc, and kept two 1sts, and probably kept Lauri.

I never thought about it that way, but yeah. With health and signing a 3&D guy instead of DDR, this team could have been -

Ball/Caruso
LaVine
3&D wing
Lauri
Hartenstein/WCJ

Plus two firsts.

You could do damage with that group. Probably a superstar short (as with most other good teams, such as Indy, the Knicks, and the Cavs), but in the hunt.

I was pining for Hartenstein in 2020. He showed a lot of promise even then. And sure the Vuc trade was bad. You could also say we could/should have nabbed Brunson instead of Ball (which I wanted too).

[Ice Man]

You could also say we could/should have nabbed Brunson instead of Ball (which I wanted too).

Now you're getting greedy (even though he was a Stevenson kid). I would settle for a healthy Lonzo! But sigh, not to be.

[drosestruts]

It is interesting when looking at AK/ME's attempt to speed run a contender and what Presti built over time

They both added Caruso

I'll argue forever that Ball was a good addition whose just had terrible injury luck, great POA defender and good 3-point shooter like a Lu Dort

Their high draft pick was Chet, ours was Williams. They did much better there, nice not drafting in the covid year I imagine.

Jalen Williams and Zach LaVine both very good young scorers

DeRozan was in the MVP conversation in 2020-21 during the first half of the year, obviosuly he's nowhere near as good as SGA in several areas (playmaking, defense) - but both are great midrange scorers who excel at getting to the line, both limit turnover and mistakes.

The biggest gap - yes even bigger than Chet/Williams - has to be OKC signing Hartenstein and Chicago trading two 1sts for Vucevic. A mistake they compounded on by re-signing him.

The difference between contender and pretender can come down to 1 or 2 players and some health.

We could have just signed Hartenstein in 2020 instead of trading for Vuc, and kept two 1sts, and probably kept Lauri.

The biggest difference is that Presti is OK with winning 22 games to win a championship eventually. It really was just a few years ago, 2022, that OKC was a 24 win team. The team that Billy didn't want to rebuild with.

If you throw out AK's first year as a transition year, AK has never won less than 39 games and averages 41 wins per season. I'm sure that's his goal to never be a bad team, and he's accomplished that. And I'm sure this has come up in whatever extension talks are happening / has happened.

But to take a break from bashing AK non-stop for years, he was literally a coin flip away from a probable championship foundation. Flagg, Matas, Giddey, Coby as a base (make whatever trades you want with Giddey / Coby, or keep one). Luck is always required, and you don't always have to be terrible to benefit from luck, like Giannis for Milwaukee.

I'm not even sure OKC was specifically trying to be bad that year.

It's also crazy to think a team with two future starters on a likely NBA champion, one of them being a league MVP could even lose that many games in a season

SGA, Dort, Wiggins, Kenrich Williams are all still on the Thunder

Giddey, Krejci, Mann, Waters, and Ty Jerome are still in the NBA

They won 29% of their games that season, our worst year was 2019-20 when we won 33% of our games. Not a large difference.

[MrSparkle]

It is interesting when looking at AK/ME's attempt to speed run a contender and what Presti built over time

They both added Caruso

I'll argue forever that Ball was a good addition whose just had terrible injury luck, great POA defender and good 3-point shooter like a Lu Dort

Their high draft pick was Chet, ours was Williams. They did much better there, nice not drafting in the covid year I imagine.

Jalen Williams and Zach LaVine both very good young scorers

DeRozan was in the MVP conversation in 2020-21 during the first half of the year, obviosuly he's nowhere near as good as SGA in several areas (playmaking, defense) - but both are great midrange scorers who excel at getting to the line, both limit turnover and mistakes.

The biggest gap - yes even bigger than Chet/Williams - has to be OKC signing Hartenstein and Chicago trading two 1sts for Vucevic. A mistake they compounded on by re-signing him.

The difference between contender and pretender can come down to 1 or 2 players and some health.

We could have just signed Hartenstein in 2020 instead of trading for Vuc, and kept two 1sts, and probably kept Lauri.

The biggest difference is that Presti is OK with winning 22 games to win a championship eventually. It really was just a few years ago, 2022, that OKC was a 24 win team. The team that Billy didn't want to rebuild with.

If you throw out AK's first year as a transition year, AK has never won less than 39 games and averages 41 wins per season. I'm sure that's his goal to never be a bad team, and he's accomplished that. And I'm sure this has come up in whatever extension talks are happening / has happened.

But to take a break from bashing AK non-stop for years, he was literally a coin flip away from a probable championship foundation. Flagg, Matas, Giddey, Coby as a base (make whatever trades you want with Giddey / Coby, or keep one). Luck is always required, and you don't always have to be terrible to benefit from luck, like Giannis for Milwaukee.

I'm not even sure OKC was specifically trying to be bad that year.

It's also crazy to think a team with two future starters on a likely NBA champion, one of them being a league MVP could even lose that many games in a season

SGA, Dort, Wiggins, Kenrich Williams are all still on the Thunder

Giddey, Krejci, Mann, Waters, and Ty Jerome are still in the NBA

They won 29% of their games that season, our worst year was 2019-20 when we won 33% of our games. Not a large difference.

They were definitely trying to be bad. They sent Al Horford on an early retirement vacation... who since then has been a regular starter for a finals team for 4 years. The next season, the oldest guy in their rotation was 23 years old.

Strategically bad, as we call it. Could be a dicey game to play... if your draft core would be some mix of Giddey, Wendell, Patrick, Jalen Green... luckily for them, there was Shai. But also, Pax/Ainge style, a glut of incoming FRPs makes it easier to focus and gamble on drafting talent. Any time a GM offers you the FRP JACKPOT package for an aging all-star (or emerging overrated star), you take it and run. Of course it kinda backfired with Harden (not even a jackpot package).

Rest of the prospects were very good (and obviously JW is another star), but MVPs are another story.

I will forever say though... Presti is a fine GM, but he ran a hopeless 1st round exit for 4Y in a row. Four 1st round exits in a row. That was a better team than these Bulls, but big picture... There isn't a single hot take way to GM a team. Took him a while to pivot to the Hinkie tank. The primary difference being, Presti's had a very good and fortunate 5Y run. Like, if PG13 tears his ACL as a Thunder, or had a repeat leg break that hampered his career ala Lonzo... And he became a zero-value trade chip... Well, history plays out very differently due to one trade.

Well, I'm not defending AK here. Really annoyed with him. But in his defense, after some clever moves, he had a few devastating turns (topped by Lonzo, but Zach's recurring knee tweaks, Pat/Coby's big injuries early in their rookie contracts). He had a chance to pivot. But still... that Lonzo injury alone kind of decimated whatever promising plans the Bulls had. The Zo/Zach/Caruso backcourt could've been a top 3-guard rotation in the league.

[DASMACKDOWN]

Is Ace Bailey purposely trying to tank his stock to go where he wants?

[Ice Man]

Took him a while to pivot to the Hinkie tank.

Hmmm. OKC had two seasons of 22 and 24 wins, finishing with the 4th best record on each occasion. So, not really the same as Hinkie. In fact, Bulls fans would have ripped Presti for not tanking properly, the way that Hinkie did.

[Ice Man]

Is Ace Bailey purposely trying to tank his stock to go where he wants?

Probably. Which I think is just one indication of many that he's a dope. (His shot selection being a second, his comment at the NBA Combine that his game has no weakness being the third, and reports of his uinmpressive conversations with NBA FOs being the fourth.)

NO
THANKS

[MrSparkle]

Took him a while to pivot to the Hinkie tank.

Hmmm. OKC had two seasons of 22 and 24 wins, finishing with the 4th best record on each occasion. So, not really the same as Hinkie. In fact, Bulls fans would have ripped Presti for not tanking properly, the way that Hinkie did.

They traded for a veteran all-star C and asked him to take a vacation, and the oldest guy in the rotation was 23. I dunno how much more blatantly you can tank. They just happened to have some major NBA-ready talent in Shai. Hinkie’s major talents were both red-shirted with serious foot injuries. If Embiid and Simmons were ready to go a year earlier to their debuts, they wouldn’t have won 15 games.

It’s frustrating that the Bulls have essentially put out tank jobs, but sabotaged the Lebron, Luka, Zion, Flagg jackpot with nonsensical April wins after some of the most deplorable Oct-Feb displays. Almost like they torture you long enough, make you feel hope in a meaningless stretch of the NBA schedule, and then try to convince you that Hinrich and Wendell’s hustle will be better than Lebron and Luka’s MVP awards.

But that said, I still think tanking is gross, the NBA is stupidly stubborn for continuing the rewarding of intentionally losing games. I don’t believe lowering odds by a few percentages has helped. But also shame on the Bulls for putting out bad teams and trying to morally justify not being extra bad

Also think that trying to morally excuse Presti from tanking as hard as Hinkie is absolutely preposterous. The Poku edition of the on-court product was fit for the Chinese basketball league.

The one funny thing with Hinkie was he intentionally seemed to swing for injured players (major knee/foot surgeries) with his top picks (Noel, Okafor, Embiid, Simmons). I guess logic was he could tank harder while the top prospect rehabbed.