2025 Offseason Season Thread Vol. 2

[twix2500]

PATRICK LOCK IN!!!!!

Why don't you send some your girls from booby trap to Ishbia office

[greg4012]

Good breakdown from Heat subreddit of the cap hell that PHX is currently in and how it really should be a driving factor in these trade talks

Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/heat/comments/1lez8db/are_we_the_favorites_to_land_kd_over_the_or/

I was reading Suns Reddit, and a lot of their fans either believe the Suns can get below the 2nd apron easily or they are only about $3 million over the 2nd apron if they decline Micic’s team option and waive Cody Martin’s non-guaranteed salary.

But they are not taking into account the $3.9 million in stretched dead-cap charges from 2024 when Phoenix waived and stretched Nassir Little and E.J. Liddell. Those amounts still count against the 2025–26 salary cap—even though they don’t occupy active roster spots.

In total, the Suns are actually about $7 million over the 2nd apron.
Before I continue, I want to thank Yossi Gozlan's full detailed breakdown on the Sun's dilemma.

The Suns want to participate in the FA market, but if they stay above that line, their flexibility in free agency becomes almost nonexistent. The only players they can sign are those willing to take vet-min deals.

Getting $7 million below the apron through trades is extremely difficult.

Just to list a few limitations the Suns currently face:

They can’t take back more salary than they send out

They can’t aggregate salaries in a trade

They can’t include cash or trade exceptions

They lose access to tools like sign-and-trades and key exceptions

This blocks them from adding talent from the buyout market (no mid-level exception)

All of this makes salary-shedding a rigid, complex process.

Based on trade proposals floated by media guys like Gambo, potential deals with teams like the Wolves, Rockets, or Raptors wouldn't get Phoenix under the apron. Those packages usually bring back too much guaranteed salary to close the gap.

Here’s the kicker: If the Suns don’t get below the second apron this year, it’ll be their 3rd straight season above it. That triggers repeat offender penalties under the new CBA that are way more severe:

2032 first-round draft pick is already frozen, meaning it cannot be traded.

2032 first can be moved to 30th overall if they stay above the 2nd apron during 2025 and 2026 season.

The repeater luxury tax rate inflates their tax bill

The national media hasn't mentions this, but a trade with the Heat could actually give Phoenix a viable path under the apron—especially if Duncan Robinson and his partial guarantee option are included. That type of structure creates flexibility most other teams can’t offer.

Do I think we’ll actually get KD?
Honestly—not sure.

But we actually have a path. Absolutely

Referenced article: https://www.thirdapron.com/p/phoenix-suns-2025-offseason-preview

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Good breakdown from Heat subreddit of the cap hell that PHX is currently in and how it really should be a driving factor in these trade talks

Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/heat/comments/1lez8db/are_we_the_favorites_to_land_kd_over_the_or/

I was reading Suns Reddit, and a lot of their fans either believe the Suns can get below the 2nd apron easily or they are only about $3 million over the 2nd apron if they decline Micic’s team option and waive Cody Martin’s non-guaranteed salary.

But they are not taking into account the $3.9 million in stretched dead-cap charges from 2024 when Phoenix waived and stretched Nassir Little and E.J. Liddell. Those amounts still count against the 2025–26 salary cap—even though they don’t occupy active roster spots.

In total, the Suns are actually about $7 million over the 2nd apron.
Before I continue, I want to thank Yossi Gozlan's full detailed breakdown on the Sun's dilemma.

The Suns want to participate in the FA market, but if they stay above that line, their flexibility in free agency becomes almost nonexistent. The only players they can sign are those willing to take vet-min deals.

Getting $7 million below the apron through trades is extremely difficult.

Just to list a few limitations the Suns currently face:

They can’t take back more salary than they send out

They can’t aggregate salaries in a trade

They can’t include cash or trade exceptions

They lose access to tools like sign-and-trades and key exceptions

This blocks them from adding talent from the buyout market (no mid-level exception)

All of this makes salary-shedding a rigid, complex process.

Based on trade proposals floated by media guys like Gambo, potential deals with teams like the Wolves, Rockets, or Raptors wouldn't get Phoenix under the apron. Those packages usually bring back too much guaranteed salary to close the gap.

Here’s the kicker: If the Suns don’t get below the second apron this year, it’ll be their 3rd straight season above it. That triggers repeat offender penalties under the new CBA that are way more severe:

2032 first-round draft pick is already frozen, meaning it cannot be traded.

2032 first can be moved to 30th overall if they stay above the 2nd apron during 2025 and 2026 season.

The repeater luxury tax rate inflates their tax bill

The national media hasn't mentions this, but a trade with the Heat could actually give Phoenix a viable path under the apron—especially if Duncan Robinson and his partial guarantee option are included. That type of structure creates flexibility most other teams can’t offer.

Do I think we’ll actually get KD?
Honestly—not sure.

But we actually have a path. Absolutely

Referenced article: https://www.thirdapron.com/p/phoenix-suns-2025-offseason-preview

Heat fans and suns fans, the only ones using their heads in all these discussions and knowing what Phoenix actually needs.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

PATRICK LOCK IN!!!!!

Why don't you send some your girls from booby trap to Ishbia office

Already sent them to Haliburtons, needed him in top shape to force a game 7

[MettaWorldPanda]

Good breakdown from Heat subreddit of the cap hell that PHX is currently in and how it really should be a driving factor in these trade talks

Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/heat/comments/1lez8db/are_we_the_favorites_to_land_kd_over_the_or/

I was reading Suns Reddit, and a lot of their fans either believe the Suns can get below the 2nd apron easily or they are only about $3 million over the 2nd apron if they decline Micic’s team option and waive Cody Martin’s non-guaranteed salary.

But they are not taking into account the $3.9 million in stretched dead-cap charges from 2024 when Phoenix waived and stretched Nassir Little and E.J. Liddell. Those amounts still count against the 2025–26 salary cap—even though they don’t occupy active roster spots.

In total, the Suns are actually about $7 million over the 2nd apron.
Before I continue, I want to thank Yossi Gozlan's full detailed breakdown on the Sun's dilemma.

The Suns want to participate in the FA market, but if they stay above that line, their flexibility in free agency becomes almost nonexistent. The only players they can sign are those willing to take vet-min deals.

Getting $7 million below the apron through trades is extremely difficult.

Just to list a few limitations the Suns currently face:

They can’t take back more salary than they send out

They can’t aggregate salaries in a trade

They can’t include cash or trade exceptions

They lose access to tools like sign-and-trades and key exceptions

This blocks them from adding talent from the buyout market (no mid-level exception)

All of this makes salary-shedding a rigid, complex process.

Based on trade proposals floated by media guys like Gambo, potential deals with teams like the Wolves, Rockets, or Raptors wouldn't get Phoenix under the apron. Those packages usually bring back too much guaranteed salary to close the gap.

Here’s the kicker: If the Suns don’t get below the second apron this year, it’ll be their 3rd straight season above it. That triggers repeat offender penalties under the new CBA that are way more severe:

2032 first-round draft pick is already frozen, meaning it cannot be traded.

2032 first can be moved to 30th overall if they stay above the 2nd apron during 2025 and 2026 season.

The repeater luxury tax rate inflates their tax bill

The national media hasn't mentions this, but a trade with the Heat could actually give Phoenix a viable path under the apron—especially if Duncan Robinson and his partial guarantee option are included. That type of structure creates flexibility most other teams can’t offer.

Do I think we’ll actually get KD?
Honestly—not sure.

But we actually have a path. Absolutely

Referenced article: https://www.thirdapron.com/p/phoenix-suns-2025-offseason-preview

Best case for them is to have BK absorb Duncan’s 9.5 mil in dead money and have them release him for 10 mil in space back. What nobody else is talking about is the possibility of 7 more mil on the cap with potential of two draft picks

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Good breakdown from Heat subreddit of the cap hell that PHX is currently in and how it really should be a driving factor in these trade talks

Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/heat/comments/1lez8db/are_we_the_favorites_to_land_kd_over_the_or/

I was reading Suns Reddit, and a lot of their fans either believe the Suns can get below the 2nd apron easily or they are only about $3 million over the 2nd apron if they decline Micic’s team option and waive Cody Martin’s non-guaranteed salary.

But they are not taking into account the $3.9 million in stretched dead-cap charges from 2024 when Phoenix waived and stretched Nassir Little and E.J. Liddell. Those amounts still count against the 2025–26 salary cap—even though they don’t occupy active roster spots.

In total, the Suns are actually about $7 million over the 2nd apron.
Before I continue, I want to thank Yossi Gozlan's full detailed breakdown on the Sun's dilemma.

The Suns want to participate in the FA market, but if they stay above that line, their flexibility in free agency becomes almost nonexistent. The only players they can sign are those willing to take vet-min deals.

Getting $7 million below the apron through trades is extremely difficult.

Just to list a few limitations the Suns currently face:

They can’t take back more salary than they send out

They can’t aggregate salaries in a trade

They can’t include cash or trade exceptions

They lose access to tools like sign-and-trades and key exceptions

This blocks them from adding talent from the buyout market (no mid-level exception)

All of this makes salary-shedding a rigid, complex process.

Based on trade proposals floated by media guys like Gambo, potential deals with teams like the Wolves, Rockets, or Raptors wouldn't get Phoenix under the apron. Those packages usually bring back too much guaranteed salary to close the gap.

Here’s the kicker: If the Suns don’t get below the second apron this year, it’ll be their 3rd straight season above it. That triggers repeat offender penalties under the new CBA that are way more severe:

2032 first-round draft pick is already frozen, meaning it cannot be traded.

2032 first can be moved to 30th overall if they stay above the 2nd apron during 2025 and 2026 season.

The repeater luxury tax rate inflates their tax bill

The national media hasn't mentions this, but a trade with the Heat could actually give Phoenix a viable path under the apron—especially if Duncan Robinson and his partial guarantee option are included. That type of structure creates flexibility most other teams can’t offer.

Do I think we’ll actually get KD?
Honestly—not sure.

But we actually have a path. Absolutely

Referenced article: https://www.thirdapron.com/p/phoenix-suns-2025-offseason-preview

Best case for them is to have BK absorb Duncan’s 9.5 mil in dead money and have them release him for 10 mil in space back. What nobody else is talking about is the possibility of 7 more mil on the cap with potential of two draft picks

This feels like Fridays breaking news.

[CWebb2491]

So us assisting them to get under the 2nd apron in what would be their 3rd year of repeater tax would ultimately free their 2032 pick to be tradable and also not be pushed to 30th. While freeing them from being taxed into oblivion?

So essentially we’d free a 1st rounder for them (essentially giving them a 1st rounder plus ours this year)

Yeah at this point if they don’t trade KD to Miami they’re doomed.

I’ll just wait for the Shams trade to Miami tweet. I’m not F5’ing **** lol.

[jbsays]

I rather add Collin Sexton + Jon Collins + Quentin Grimes Then 37 YO Durant.

More depth, youth, hunger and will cost a lot less.

First time I have seen this, but I like it. Collins is a South Florida kid so I like pulling for them plus I think he'd be nice off the bench because he could play next to either Bam or Ware and bring some offense. Offensively I like a Herro/Sexton backcourt, not so much defensively though. But, maybe you start someone like Highsmith and put him on the best perimeter offensive player on the other team.

[CWebb2491]

Wiggins, Duncan, Jaquez, Jovic, 2025 1st rounder would be my FINAL offer.

Then you have can do Terry and a 1st for DeRozan and Devin Carter (who the Heat were high in last years draft)

Or look too do another deal, maybe Terry and SloMo for Holiday and a 1st (we eat Holidays insane contract while getting an asset that can unlock future picks and give us a championship veteran PG who is still elite at defense.)

[Lennyzinho]

So us assisting them to get under the 2nd apron in what would be their 3rd year of repeater tax would ultimately free their 2032 pick to be tradable and also not be pushed to 30th. While freeing them from being taxed into oblivion?

So essentially we’d free a 1st rounder for them (essentially giving them a 1st rounder plus ours this year)

Yeah at this point if they don’t trade KD to Miami they’re doomed.

I’ll just wait for the Shams trade to Miami tweet. I’m not F5’ing **** lol.

We make the most sense but it doesnt HAVE to be us because HOU SAS MIN would almost certainly involve the nets to absorb Grayson Allen or some other salaries, and maybe even ship out Claxton to PHX. Ofc for Brooklyn to take on salary and possibly send Claxton out they'd need to be handsomely compensated.

Given how stingy teams have been with PHX, Claxton feels like a pipe dream. Suns are super effed. Them bluffing that they'll just keep durant is complete horse sht.

[Slim Charless]

Read on Twitter

Well I mean Wiggins, Jovic/Jaime, and a 1st matches almost exactly what they’re asking for…..

i guess this what the owner meant when he said he was going to be more hands on. this is more about ego and him listening to the media calling our offers trash and not thinkin logically

Suns fan here.

What do you think about Ware/Rozier/Duncan/#20?

That way you keep Jovic and JJJ plus we take Rozier off your hands?

I honestly think the Ware is the hold-up here in the deal getting done...

[Slim Charless]

Suns(Matt Ishiba)waiting to see if Jase Richardson slides to 20 before making deal

This is sadly true. If we get within striking range of him, I'm putting all kinds of money that he will be our pick. Laying that as soon as the odds are released.

[twix2500]

PATRICK LOCK IN!!!!!

Why don't you send some your girls from booby trap to Ishbia office

Already sent them to Haliburtons, needed him in top shape to force a game 7

That's why he is getting a charley horse in his calves

[SoFlaKingReal]

Well I mean Wiggins, Jovic/Jaime, and a 1st matches almost exactly what they’re asking for…..

i guess this what the owner meant when he said he was going to be more hands on. this is more about ego and him listening to the media calling our offers trash and not thinkin logically

Suns fan here.

What do you think about Ware/Rozier/Duncan/#20?

That way you keep Jovic and JJJ plus we take Rozier off your hands?

I honestly think the Ware is the hold-up here in the deal getting done...

You are probably right. Duncan and #20 we can agree on...but the Heat is then probably insisting on Wiggins and one of JJJ/Jaquez instead of Rozier/Ware like you proposed.

[KingDavid]

Well I mean Wiggins, Jovic/Jaime, and a 1st matches almost exactly what they’re asking for…..

i guess this what the owner meant when he said he was going to be more hands on. this is more about ego and him listening to the media calling our offers trash and not thinkin logically

Suns fan here.

What do you think about Ware/Rozier/Duncan/#20?

That way you keep Jovic and JJJ plus we take Rozier off your hands?

I honestly think the Ware is the hold-up here in the deal getting done...

I'm not onboard with trading Ware. I'm also not a trade specialist, but is taking Rozier off our hands a favor? He's an expiring contract this upcoming season. Wouldn't he be worth more than a throw in for this trade?

[SA37]

The thing is they don't have many more appealing options. The fact remains: the Heat are their only path to get out of paying 500 million dollars to miss the playoffs next year.

I don't think this Suns owner has reached the stage of caring about the luxury tax yet lol

He's still going through his delusional "I'm a genius billionaire that can turn anything to gold" phase.

Who knows

https://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articles/big_problem_for_the_phoenix_suns_mat_ishbia_is_reportedly_out_of_money/s1_16751_42299491

The Phoenix Suns haven't had a lot go right for them lately, and there's more bad news coming now. The Athletic's Zach Harper revealed on the Basketball Illuminati podcast that the Suns' majority owner, Mat Ishbia, is struggling in terms of liquid cash.

"People have no idea what money is," Harper said. "... There were rumors within the last year that the Suns [ownership] might not have money. Ishbia might not have cash... There’s questions about his business [United Wholesale Mortgage] and how liquid it was."

So Wiggins, Rozier, and $3M cash?

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Read on Twitter

[Lennyzinho]

i guess this what the owner meant when he said he was going to be more hands on. this is more about ego and him listening to the media calling our offers trash and not thinkin logically

Suns fan here.

What do you think about Ware/Rozier/Duncan/#20?

That way you keep Jovic and JJJ plus we take Rozier off your hands?

I honestly think the Ware is the hold-up here in the deal getting done...

You are probably right. Duncan and #20 we can agree on...but the Heat is then probably insisting on Wiggins and one of JJJ/Jaquez instead of Rozier/Ware like you proposed.

It HAS to be Wiggins if we are only sending one prospect along with duncan.

If it's rozier and duncan we'd need to send two dudes that make 3-4M like jjj jovic love Ware etc

Ware rozier Duncan doesnt work and it failed in espn trade machine. And I really dont want to give up Ware.

I think most of us are OK with Wiggins duncan JJJ and 20th pick and anything more than that general feeling of the board is no thanks.

[Slim Charless]

i guess this what the owner meant when he said he was going to be more hands on. this is more about ego and him listening to the media calling our offers trash and not thinkin logically

Suns fan here.

What do you think about Ware/Rozier/Duncan/#20?

That way you keep Jovic and JJJ plus we take Rozier off your hands?

I honestly think the Ware is the hold-up here in the deal getting done...

I'm not onboard with trading Ware. I'm also not a trade specialist, but is taking Rozier off our hands a favor? He's an expiring contract this upcoming season. Wouldn't he be worth more than a throw in for this trade?

Yeah but between him, Duncan and Wiggs, he's the worst player. By far I'd say too. 2 of the 3 will need to be included for cap purposes and I figured, I'd leave you guys with the best of them and take the worst 2...Duncan and Rozier.

[He2Fast]

Well I mean Wiggins, Jovic/Jaime, and a 1st matches almost exactly what they’re asking for…..

i guess this what the owner meant when he said he was going to be more hands on. this is more about ego and him listening to the media calling our offers trash and not thinkin logically

Suns fan here.

What do you think about Ware/Rozier/Duncan/#20?

That way you keep Jovic and JJJ plus we take Rozier off your hands?

I honestly think the Ware is the hold-up here in the deal getting done...

I think that Ware is off the table for this iteration of KD.

I’d say Wiggins, Robinson (whose contract your Suns would assuredly love) one of Jovic/Jaquez and #20 is the absolute best offer I’d give.

That deal sets up the Heat to make further moves and gives your Suns flexibility.