The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 3

[Saberestar]

Vince Goodwill:

“I feel like Miami is where Kevin Durant is going. Unless some team just comes out of nowhere, and Phoenix sends Durant to a place against his wishes. Which, to be perfectly honest, I would not be surprised if that happened.”

[lilfishi22]

If we don't get a very good package for KD we need to talk to him about an extension with the Suns.

Look, he never asked for a trade. He is fine having a fresh start on another franchise BUT he loves Book, Phoenix and he has a good relationship with our new HC, Ott.

We want to trade KD to get younger and have multiple assets to retool around Booker. If we can't accomplish that there is no need to trade him, he is an amazing player yet.

We will see how this goes in the next couple of days. I expect one of his favorite destinations putting one more asset on the table and getting him in the next few days...but if that doesn't happen we would need to talk to him about staying on the Suns.

Could not agree more.

I have suggested this since the end of the season. I know our record sucked last year along with the style of play, but the talent was there and is still there. I would rather bet that our new coach can work some magic with this group and make them fun to watch. Which of the suggested players in all of these trade scenarios would you rather watch than KD? It appears that virtually all of them keep us over the 2nd apron with lesser talent on longer contracts. The only one I am interested in is the one with the Heat which includes Ware, Jovic, Wiggans and number 20.

I know you are going to say you cannot stand KD and anyone will do or that is what many of you are saying. The only answer you come up with is for us to trade Booker and then everything will be just fine.

Just draft a quality big with 29. Try to get something for Beal, Allen and O'Neale. Yeah, sign some minimum guys and see if Ott can make it work. Hell, maybe he can even fit Beal in the mix. I just see us getting worse in the short term with no better future than when we can reload when KD's and Beal's contracts expire.

Beal has negative trade value -- -you have to spend too much to trade him....

The experiment is over - Durant has to go this offseason

I don't like getting back less than what an asset is worth (who does?) but there's always some merit in understanding sunk cost and just moving on. We're NEVER going to get back what we gave up for KD so even the best package will be a fraction of the original cost. We should take the best package and move on. Holding on to him in the hope of landing an extra pick in 2031 or some bench player in 8mths doesn’t really move the needle for me. There's also little to suggest that waiting for the trade deadline will noticeably lift his value either with him being a half season rental as he can't sign an extension once the season begins.

[BobbieL]

Could not agree more.

I have suggested this since the end of the season. I know our record sucked last year along with the style of play, but the talent was there and is still there. I would rather bet that our new coach can work some magic with this group and make them fun to watch. Which of the suggested players in all of these trade scenarios would you rather watch than KD? It appears that virtually all of them keep us over the 2nd apron with lesser talent on longer contracts. The only one I am interested in is the one with the Heat which includes Ware, Jovic, Wiggans and number 20.

I know you are going to say you cannot stand KD and anyone will do or that is what many of you are saying. The only answer you come up with is for us to trade Booker and then everything will be just fine.

Just draft a quality big with 29. Try to get something for Beal, Allen and O'Neale. Yeah, sign some minimum guys and see if Ott can make it work. Hell, maybe he can even fit Beal in the mix. I just see us getting worse in the short term with no better future than when we can reload when KD's and Beal's contracts expire.

Beal has negative trade value -- -you have to spend too much to trade him....

The experiment is over - Durant has to go this offseason

I don't like getting back less than what an asset is worth (who does?) but there's always some merit in understanding sunk cost and just moving on. We're NEVER going to get back what we gave up for KD so even the best package will be a fraction of the original cost. We should take the best package and move on. Holding on to him in the hope of landing an extra pick in 2031 or some bench player in 8mths doesn’t really move the needle for me. There's also little to suggest that waiting for the trade deadline will noticeably lift his value either with him being a half season rental as he can't sign an extension once the season begins.

Exactly. Hold on to him for the deadline, the offer will be worse. Next summer, sign and trade - that is tricky

Or MatIshbia and the Suns can just say "I'll show you all around the league, not only are we not trading him, we will extend him two years!" - as the rest of the league laughs and the Rockets say "thank you" for those picks in 2027 and 2029 which will be top 5 picks.

Plus, the Suns can use this trade to build for the future. Say it is WAre and a FRP pick from the Heat - if Ware develops and improves -- there you go. Keeping Durant, the team has very little chance of winning a title OR improving. Trading him, at least there could be a glimmer of hope.

[thamadkant]

First of all, can we please ban or delete posts that shows Pro and Anti Political Parties in here. That would keep people's emotion and focus on basketball discussions.

[lilfishi22]

No one knows what’s going on and that’s clear by Vegas odds

Sportsbooks Have No Idea Where Kevin Durant is Going to Land Anymore
https://www.rawchili.com/nba/110138/

Kevin Durant Next TeamOddsHoustonRockets+250Minnesota
Timberwolves+350Miami Heat+350Toronto Raptors+400San Antonio Spurs+400Phoenix Suns+1200Memphis Grizzlies+2000DraftKings (Thu, June 19 – 11:24 a.m. CDT)

I mentioned this before but odds are moving around so much and so often, there's no value in looking at the odds imo

[thamadkant]

Read on Twitter

Gotta be Ware.

No other move makes sense for Miami. They dont REALLY need him as Bam has played the 5 his whole career and KD can play the 4 now. At his age the 4 might be better for KD anyways, he can't stay with the elite 3s on defense nowadays.

Ware is not even that good to be honest. Hence Spo doesn't play him much.

At best he would be a younger Claxton. It's unfortunate Heat has no assets except him really.

Heat needs send Rozier and Robinson I believe, because both are expiring. But also Wiggins ins interesting because he would help Suns chances for playoffs, he's good for 18 points and excellent defense.

[lilfishi22]

One positive I see it Ott. I know people hate the hire, but when Brooklyn traded all those young players and picks for KG, Gerald Wallace (Lillard), and Ray Allen, and then those guys got ousted in the 2nd round the first year and then the first round the following year where they won only 38 games, even with Joe Johnson, Deron Williams, Brook Lopez, KG, Thaddeus Young and Bojan, they then won 21 games the following year after KG was gone (but they still had all the other ones names except Deron Williams who was replaced with Jarrett Jack)..

So they still had aging talent...what is crazy is that was like 10 years ago and Brook Lopez is STILL playing..he was a 7 year vet...Bojan had only been in the league 1 year.

So they fired Lionel Hollins and brought in Atkinson (along with Ott)..

Now somehow they got some decent players....Joe Harris, Dinwiddie, RHJ, and LeVert, and they played pretty hard but only won 28 games, being a very young inexperienced team that hadn't played together.

Then the following year they made some moves, trading Brook Lopez for D'Angelo Russell (Lakers had drafted Ball), signed Allen Crabbe, traded for Demarre Carroll and drafted Jarrett Allen with the 22nd pick (who KD made sure they got rid of when he came on to make room for DeAndre Jordan).

But the next year, in Atkinson's 2nd year, as he got this young group playing together....mid to late picks and journeymen, they went 42-40, playing well above their talent...the sum being much greater than the parts.

I was VERY impressed with Atkinson.

Then of course they signed an injured KD, Kyrie and Jordan, and fired Kenny at the request of their new stars and ended up winning fewer games. KG was out but they had added Kyrie and Jordan on top of the other players.

Now Ott stuck around under Vaughn and Nash but then left to coach under Atkinson again in Cleveland.

I think one thing he knows is that you want players playing like a team, playing hard...and he could do well with players trying to prove themselves (possibly late first round picks, journymen, etc).

My bet is that he is NOT a KD fan. He's been down that road. He watched a young competitive scrappy Brooklyn team turn into a team with a couple of self entitled stars.

Then in Cleveland, they get those young hungry unproven players (except Mitchell) and he sees the success again.

I think he is a good coach for a rebuild. With Book and signing vets? Well, I don't think anyone can do much more than MAYBE fight for like 9th or 10th place.

The question is, will Book listen to him?

But if we do end up rebuilding within a year or two, I think he probably is a good pick. He may have ties to MIchigan St, but that certainly doesn't make him unqualified. I really think Kenny Atkinson is one of the best coaches in the NBA about getting more out of less (not that Cleveland didn't have a ton of talent, but to be 28-5 of whatever they were?).

The previous year they had the same talent under JB Bickerstaff, and won 48 games, which was good for the 4 seed, but still only 2 games ahead of hte 8 seed (3 teams were tied at 47 for 5-7) and then won 64 games when Atkinson came on with Ott.

The whole hire seems MAGAish (shady/dirty as all hell) BUT gonna make a final judgement at the end of year.

Personally I think Vogel and Bud got done dirty. They got blamed and thrown under the bus from Ishbia and James Jones clear and obvious mistakes as well as KDs I don’t care, I got mine attitude (that rubbed off on Booker). So yeah I have little faith in the hire. BUT we have to judge it at the end of the year.

You can look at it a few different ways. These coaches were brought in to do one thing: maximize the roster and make the team competitive. One of them won 49 games but got swept in the first round, with rumors of losing the locker room even before the playoffs began. The other didn’t even reach the play-in and, again, seemed to have lost the room well before the season ended. Bottom line is they didn’t do the job well enough to justify staying on

But maybe the bigger issue is that this roster just never made much sense. It was a mismatch of high end talent, overlapping positions, no real leadership, no clear identity. Maybe no coach could’ve made it work. In the end, the coaching and the roster just weren’t a fit. I don’t blame the coaches for trying and finally realizing it wasn’t going to work. And I don’t blame the front office either for taking a big swing by hiring top-tier coaches....like it wasn't like they cheaped out, they really invested in the coaching staff. On paper, this should have worked. It just didn’t.

[lilfishi22]

Darren Wolfson saying that the Wolves are in the mix for KD.

Read on Twitter

That's the thing with the KD situation from my perspective. You get him for one year - he will very likely still be one of the best players in the league next year - and next summer, you have his bird rights. You can re-sign him or sign-and-trade him, or in the worst-case scenario, simply clear $55 million from your books. In any case, he can't make you offer him some jumbo 4-year contract.

KD's list of teams isn't all that relevant to me. If there's a team he really wants, he needs to convince that team to pony up the assets to get him. If he can't do that, he'll end up wherever he's wanted the most.

This is Brian Gregory's first dish. I hope the man can cook!

S&T's in the NBA is a lot harder now with the apron rules and with KD commanding such a massive salary. Teams in the 1st and 2nd apron can't recieve KD in a S&T and teams under the 1st apron can't be over the 1st apron after a KD S&T. I also don't believe we can even offer KD a longer contract than 2 yrs because of the over 38 rule.

[BobbieL]

No one knows what’s going on and that’s clear by Vegas odds

Sportsbooks Have No Idea Where Kevin Durant is Going to Land Anymore
https://www.rawchili.com/nba/110138/

Kevin Durant Next TeamOddsHoustonRockets+250Minnesota
Timberwolves+350Miami Heat+350Toronto Raptors+400San Antonio Spurs+400Phoenix Suns+1200Memphis Grizzlies+2000DraftKings (Thu, June 19 – 11:24 a.m. CDT)

I mentioned this before but odds are moving around so much and so often, there's no value in looking at the odds imo

Since this post I have seen odds that have Houston as the leader and even the SPurs still up there

So who knows -- except I don't think the Spurs are out at all.

[thamadkant]

I'm hoping Heat releases their offer to the media ans Suns ring Rockets to tell them they are out with their offer and Suns found a suitor.

Rockets will then likely offer a first rounder or 2 to try to win the KD sweepstakes. That's how it works.

[thamadkant]

Spurs are a very cunning and smart franchise. They don't over pay ever. Even how they got Fox, that trade was skewed towards Spurs since Fox is a legit All Star who just entered his prime.

[BobbieL]

Darren Wolfson saying that the Wolves are in the mix for KD.

Read on Twitter

That's the thing with the KD situation from my perspective. You get him for one year - he will very likely still be one of the best players in the league next year - and next summer, you have his bird rights. You can re-sign him or sign-and-trade him, or in the worst-case scenario, simply clear $55 million from your books. In any case, he can't make you offer him some jumbo 4-year contract.

KD's list of teams isn't all that relevant to me. If there's a team he really wants, he needs to convince that team to pony up the assets to get him. If he can't do that, he'll end up wherever he's wanted the most.

This is Brian Gregory's first dish. I hope the man can cook!

S&T's in the NBA is a lot harder now with the apron rules and with KD commanding such a massive salary. Teams in the 1st and 2nd apron can't recieve KD in a S&T and teams under the 1st apron can't be over the 1st apron after a KD S&T. I also don't believe we can even offer KD a longer contract than 2 yrs because of the over 38 rule.

Plus with Booker, O'Neal, Allen and even Beal at $20m on the roster - plus Dunn - not sure the Suns will have the cap space from letting Durant walk to get that "55m"

The best thing to do is suck it up - make a good solid trade and try to just maybe get players around Booker similar to what there was 4 years ago.

[lilfishi22]

No one knows what’s going on and that’s clear by Vegas odds

Sportsbooks Have No Idea Where Kevin Durant is Going to Land Anymore
https://www.rawchili.com/nba/110138/

Kevin Durant Next TeamOddsHoustonRockets+250Minnesota
Timberwolves+350Miami Heat+350Toronto Raptors+400San Antonio Spurs+400Phoenix Suns+1200Memphis Grizzlies+2000DraftKings (Thu, June 19 – 11:24 a.m. CDT)

I mentioned this before but odds are moving around so much and so often, there's no value in looking at the odds imo

Since this post I have seen odds that have Houston as the leader and even the SPurs still up there

So who knows -- except I don't think the Spurs are out at all.

They aren't out but I can see them having a harder limit on what they are willing to give up than Houston, mainly because Houston is much closer to being one KD piece away from being near OKC's level whereas San An having won 34 games this past season is probably more than just one piece away from being a serious contender. Houston also just extended Udoka to a long term deal and I think they do want to cash in some of the guys they aren't sure about/aren't willing to wait to see what they'll become (eg Green) before deciding to pivot away from them.

[thamadkant]

In all honesty, I hope Suns and Rockets do trade with each other regarding KD....

Then Suns offer Booker to Spurs for Pick 2 and Castle, Sochan and a couple of future firsts.

[lilfishi22]

That's the thing with the KD situation from my perspective. You get him for one year - he will very likely still be one of the best players in the league next year - and next summer, you have his bird rights. You can re-sign him or sign-and-trade him, or in the worst-case scenario, simply clear $55 million from your books. In any case, he can't make you offer him some jumbo 4-year contract.

KD's list of teams isn't all that relevant to me. If there's a team he really wants, he needs to convince that team to pony up the assets to get him. If he can't do that, he'll end up wherever he's wanted the most.

This is Brian Gregory's first dish. I hope the man can cook!

S&T's in the NBA is a lot harder now with the apron rules and with KD commanding such a massive salary. Teams in the 1st and 2nd apron can't recieve KD in a S&T and teams under the 1st apron can't be over the 1st apron after a KD S&T. I also don't believe we can even offer KD a longer contract than 2 yrs because of the over 38 rule.

Plus with Booker, O'Neal, Allen and even Beal at $20m on the roster - plus Dunn - not sure the Suns will have the cap space from letting Durant walk to get that "55m"

The best thing to do is suck it up - make a good solid trade and try to just maybe get players around Booker similar to what there was 4 years ago.

There isn't useable space until the end of the following season when Beal is off the books. The thing with a KD trade this offseason is that there is potential to lower our salary and more importantly, the associated tax, to give Ish's wallet some relief. Even a few millions less in salary is multiplied in tax savings.

[Slim Charless]

In all honesty, I hope Suns and Rockets do trade with each other regarding KD....

Then Suns offer Booker to Spurs for Pick 2 and Castle, Sochan and a couple of future firsts.

Or the trade starts out with KD, then shifts to Booker. With us getting what you just posted we get for him. They can even keep Castle.

[Slim Charless]

Spurs are a very cunning and smart franchise. They don't over pay ever. Even how they got Fox, that trade was skewed towards Spurs since Fox is a legit All Star who just entered his prime.

Fox is a short, streaky shooter with little range who doesnt play elite D. He's never gonna be as good as current Durant IMO and forget about prime Durant. He relies on his speed and that will go soon enough. Wemby is a baller, so they'll be fine but I doubt Fox ever sees an ASG-especially in the west. Maybe with this USA vs the World thing he can try and get in for another country if possible. But this one?

Not gonna happen.

[thamadkant]

Spurs are a very cunning and smart franchise. They don't over pay ever. Even how they got Fox, that trade was skewed towards Spurs since Fox is a legit All Star who just entered his prime.

Fox is a short, streaky shooter with little range who doesnt play elite D. He's never gonna be as good as current Durant IMO and forget about prime Durant. He relies on his speed and that will go soon enough. Wemby is a baller, so they'll be fine but I doubt Fox ever sees an ASG-especially in the west. Maybe with this USA vs the World thing he can try and get in for another country if possible. But this one?

Not gonna happen.

Fox is an excellent player. Spurs wanted a super quick scoring guard to Mimic Patker days... they got it

[lilfishi22]

Spurs are a very cunning and smart franchise. They don't over pay ever. Even how they got Fox, that trade was skewed towards Spurs since Fox is a legit All Star who just entered his prime.

Fox is a short, streaky shooter with little range who doesnt play elite D. He's never gonna be as good as current Durant IMO and forget about prime Durant. He relies on his speed and that will go soon enough. Wemby is a baller, so they'll be fine but I doubt Fox ever sees an ASG-especially in the west. Maybe with this USA vs the World thing he can try and get in for another country if possible. But this one?

Not gonna happen.

You're selling Fox short. The past 3 seasons with the Kings, he averaged more than 25ppg while dishing out 6 assists and grabbing 5 rebounds. There's parts of his game which is lacking like consistent 3PT shooting and defense but the guy is all-star calibre. Just 2 seasons ago he led the Kings to 48wins while making an all-NBA 2nd team and made an all-star team.... in the West.

[Saberestar]

With Jake Fischer and Goodwill both saying Miami I am trying to think about the potential packages.

1) Duncan Robinson. I think he is undoubtedly in the offer because of the money savings.

2) Wiggins OR Rozier. One of them has to be in the offerbto match salaries. Wiggins has 2 years left, Rozier is expiring.

Wiggins obviously the better player. The Heat will try to trade us Rozier.

3) Ware, Jovic, Jaquez. I think that we are asking for two of them and the Heat just wants to give us one..Jaquez. Ware is the prize. We need to get AT LEAST Jovic.

4) Picks. The Heat probably just wants to give us #20 BUT we need to get another FRP. And a couple 2nds as a sweeteners would be great.

5) Optional. The Heat have other young players with less potential that can be added in the final trade. Pelle is one of them.

Their first offer IMO:
Duncan Robinson, Rozier, Jaquez and #20.

Their current offer after negotiations IMO:
Duncan Robinson, Wiggins, Jovic, #20 and another FRP.