2024-2025 College Basketball / NBA Draft - Volume III

[eyeatoma]

I just don't see enough separation from defenders by Tre to feel comfortable taking him. He's pretty weak, easily knocked off his drives. Definitely not at explosive as his vert suggests (which I still think he manipulated). I think he's a phenomenal shooter from midrange and outside, but he doesn't strike me as star upside between his defense and his weak driving ability. He's also by no means a superstar passer, so that's not an aspect of his game that elevates his stock to me.

Very one note, much like a previous comp I made: Buddy Hield. Good player, but I'm not building anything around him.

You're acting like NBA superstars are two way stars though. Lots of stars operate from the midrange and 3. He's probably averae to sligtly below at driving. He seems to have supernova level 3 point shooting, and ability to hit it off the dribble and hesi pullups. I'd say he has better chance at stardom than VJ, who has everything but a handle/pure shot, and a diverse offensive arsenal.

Last I counted of the top 10 NBA players only 2-3 are 2 ways players.

[Negrodamus]

I just don't see enough separation from defenders by Tre to feel comfortable taking him. He's pretty weak, easily knocked off his drives. Definitely not at explosive as his vert suggests (which I still think he manipulated). I think he's a phenomenal shooter from midrange and outside, but he doesn't strike me as star upside between his defense and his weak driving ability. He's also by no means a superstar passer, so that's not an aspect of his game that elevates his stock to me.

Very one note, much like a previous comp I made: Buddy Hield. Good player, but I'm not building anything around him.

He got by Cooper Flagg relatively easily.

When?

[Arsenal]

At what point will you accept all of what's happening as reality instead of some super secret double agent plan by Morey?

I know Morey is trying to both trade up AND trade down. That means he's not enamored with VJ Melton at #3 overall. Otherwise you'd be hearing the same things from us about VJ that Spurs are saying about Harper, that the pick is locked in.

Therefore my PUMP and DUMP advice stands. Morey may end up picking VJ at #3, but that appears to be the last option.

Pump and dump, then trade back for who, exactly? The guy who adds one red flag to his resume per day?

Either Ace or Noa.

[Negrodamus]

I just don't see enough separation from defenders by Tre to feel comfortable taking him. He's pretty weak, easily knocked off his drives. Definitely not at explosive as his vert suggests (which I still think he manipulated). I think he's a phenomenal shooter from midrange and outside, but he doesn't strike me as star upside between his defense and his weak driving ability. He's also by no means a superstar passer, so that's not an aspect of his game that elevates his stock to me.

Very one note, much like a previous comp I made: Buddy Hield. Good player, but I'm not building anything around him.

You're acting like NBA superstars are two way stars though. Lots of stars operate from the midrange and 3. He's probably averae to sligtly below at driving. He seems to have supernova level 3 point shooting, and ability to hit it off the dribble and hesi pullups. I'd say he has better chance at stardom than VJ, who has everything but a handle/pure shot, and a diverse offensive arsenal.

Last I counted of the top 10 NBA players only 2-3 are 2 ways players.

Which players are you referring to? All the all stars aren't two way stars in the league, but they were mostly passable on defense, or at the very minimum, generated turnovers.

And nearly all of them got to the rim and finished at a high percentage and/or generated fouls at a decent rate in college. If the eye test was telling me something different, I'd understand; but he's just limited at getting to the rim and at being an on ball guy.

I'm also not comparing him to VJ, just telling you my thoughts on him in general.

[Iverson Armband]

I just don't see enough separation from defenders by Tre to feel comfortable taking him. He's pretty weak, easily knocked off his drives. Definitely not at explosive as his vert suggests (which I still think he manipulated). I think he's a phenomenal shooter from midrange and outside, but he doesn't strike me as star upside between his defense and his weak driving ability. He's also by no means a superstar passer, so that's not an aspect of his game that elevates his stock to me.

Very one note, much like a previous comp I made: Buddy Hield. Good player, but I'm not building anything around him.

He got by Cooper Flagg relatively easily.

When?

HS. Can’t find the clip at the moment but Link Academy played Montverde. I don’t know what happened at Texas, but Tre got to the basket a lot in HS. I think he’ll benefit from NBA spacing.

[Black Mage]

Way back in the Volume One I wrote that I had Ace ahead of VJ; but it would come down to intangibles and whichever of those 2 showed the right ones, was the one we should draft and pick. I also said my belief in Ace was contingent on him convincing Daryl and the Sixers that he would "buy-in" on a more off-ball role while building up and polishing his self-creation skills.

Canceling the workout last minute and all the reports coming out that he wants to go Top 3 but also go to be where he's the star ended the question about intangibles as compared to VJ.

I'm out and switched my vote to VJ.

I'm truly saddened by this turn of events as I think he would have been an excellent wing for us for years and I'd love to see the Sixers finally running with a real wing.

[76ciology]

From what I’ve heard and can assume, Tre Johnson was once ranked the No. 1 high school player in the country, which speaks to how talented he was early on. But the issue was that his game seemed to stagnate. He kept playing the same way year after year without showing significant growth in key areas like rim pressure, defense, and playmaking. That’s ultimately how other prospects surpassed him in the rankings by his senior year.

[Negrodamus]

This draft stinks so much, it's a shame this was the one we sold out for, but it's the only one that made sense.

There are so many things that have to go right for most of these guys at 3-8 that you have to take the guy who has the most projectable traits. Edgecombe, Knueppel, Ace, Fears, Tre, Jaku, Maluach all of massive question marks across their games; feels like way more than most top 5 projected freshmen.

Collin Murray-Boyles really has one major question: Can he get that shot right? Looking at this Finals, I can see him getting substantial minutes for either of these teams as he gets comfortable in the league. He's just not a freshman.

Another guy who I'm getting more interested in after watching recent clips of his games is Ben Saraf, Essengue's teammate. He clearly looks much larger than Jakucionis, who is supposed to be of a similar build. I think teams are going to sleep on him a bit since he's playing right now during this process and Noa is getting all the looks, but I could see him panning out.

I'm currently at either:

- Draft VJ at 3
- Trade down and get one of CMB, Queen, or Kasparas

[eyeatoma]

I just don't see enough separation from defenders by Tre to feel comfortable taking him. He's pretty weak, easily knocked off his drives. Definitely not at explosive as his vert suggests (which I still think he manipulated). I think he's a phenomenal shooter from midrange and outside, but he doesn't strike me as star upside between his defense and his weak driving ability. He's also by no means a superstar passer, so that's not an aspect of his game that elevates his stock to me.

Very one note, much like a previous comp I made: Buddy Hield. Good player, but I'm not building anything around him.

You're acting like NBA superstars are two way stars though. Lots of stars operate from the midrange and 3. He's probably averae to sligtly below at driving. He seems to have supernova level 3 point shooting, and ability to hit it off the dribble and hesi pullups. I'd say he has better chance at stardom than VJ, who has everything but a handle/pure shot, and a diverse offensive arsenal.

Last I counted of the top 10 NBA players only 2-3 are 2 ways players.

Which players are you referring to? All the all stars aren't two way stars in the league, but they were mostly passable on defense, or at the very minimum, generated turnovers.

And nearly all of them got to the rim and finished at a high percentage and/or generated fouls at a decent rate in college. If the eye test was telling me something different, I'd understand; but he's just limited at getting to the rim and at being an on ball guy.

I'm also not comparing him to VJ, just telling you my thoughts on him in general.

Two way superstars right now would be

Sga
Ad
Ant if he tries
Embiid when healthy

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[LeonJordanJr24]

Looking for a future number 1/2 option I'm going with Ace. Hes the future the 76ers. Losing Yabu. I'm drafting Ace...

[Damienfan]

Looking for a future number 1/2 option I'm going with Ace. Hes the future the 76ers. Losing Yabu. I'm drafting Ace...

love it!

[76ciology]

This draft stinks so much, it's a shame this was the one we sold out for, but it's the only one that made sense.

I think it’s more about expectations. Kneuppel and VJ actually have better numbers than most of these prospects. If Maxey had entered the draft without that strange season at Kentucky, he’d probably be on Tre’s level right now.

2024
#3 Reed Shepard
#4 Castle

2023
#3 Scoot
#4 Amen

2022
#3 Jabari Smith
#4 Keegan

[Negrodamus]

You're acting like NBA superstars are two way stars though. Lots of stars operate from the midrange and 3. He's probably averae to sligtly below at driving. He seems to have supernova level 3 point shooting, and ability to hit it off the dribble and hesi pullups. I'd say he has better chance at stardom than VJ, who has everything but a handle/pure shot, and a diverse offensive arsenal.

Last I counted of the top 10 NBA players only 2-3 are 2 ways players.

Which players are you referring to? All the all stars aren't two way stars in the league, but they were mostly passable on defense, or at the very minimum, generated turnovers.

And nearly all of them got to the rim and finished at a high percentage and/or generated fouls at a decent rate in college. If the eye test was telling me something different, I'd understand; but he's just limited at getting to the rim and at being an on ball guy.

I'm also not comparing him to VJ, just telling you my thoughts on him in general.

Two way superstars right now would be

Sga
Ad
Ant if he tries
Embiid when healthy

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Cade Cunningham - was a two way stud in college
Tyler Herro - A decent comp for Tre honestly; did have a 2 STL% suggesting he was bare minimum ok at generating steals
Evan Mobley- 2 way stud in college
Jalen Brunson - Exploitable defender which was arguably one of the reasons he's sitting at home now
Paolo Banchero - 2 way stud in college
Scottie Barnes - 2 way stud in college
Tyrese Maxey - Was a decent defender in college
Tyrese Haliburton- 2 way stud in college
DeAaron Fox - 2 way stud in college
Lauri Markkanen - Exploitable defender on a bottom tier team in the NBA and on a regrettable contract apparently.
Darius Garland - injured in college
Ja Morant - 2 way stud in college
Jarrett Allen - 2 way stud in college
Dejounte Murray - 2 way stud in college
Fred VanVleet - 2 way stud in college
Andrew Wiggins - 2 way stud in college

I mean, if we're banking on Tre being like Jalen Brunson (foul merchant), Trae Young (foul merchant, elite distributor), Dame Lillard, type guy who has the 8+ BPM where they have an extremely low DBPM, thats fine, but those guys usually have a few other elements to their game aside from difficult shot making and they need the entire team built around them to hide their poor defense.

[Black Mage]

With all these rumors about moving up to two, would they even be allowed to announce that if Spurs did accept it? We owe OKC our 2026 pick. We can’t trade the 2025 pick. So we would have to trade a drafted player. Would Shams even waste his time announcing that we have an agreement to move up to 2? Wouldn’t that be against league rules some how?

It would be allowed b/c we'd still be making a 1st rnd pick in 2025.

[Black Mage]

Grimes is not getting paid all this cash to not be a starter.

Maxey
Grimes
Johnson/VJ
George
Embiid

How much do you think Grimes is getting? I don’t see him getting starter money. That would be over $20mil per.

I'd hope for 16; but I expect 18-22 mil

[zaz102]

TJ's play is starting to make me rethink my position on Kon.

[Black Mage]

After the Ace debacle i saw some videos of Tre and VJ today:

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

I´m having a hard time picking one of them. VJ athleticism is mind blowing, his first step is elite, and he will be an exciting player for sure with his dunks, and he´s a good defender too. I saw some nice passes there too, so i think he can be a decent passer. My main worries with him are his handle and his shooting. Can he develop some off the drible shooting? I saw some flashes in the video above, so i think he has already a foundation there. Another thing is his 3 pt shooting. I think that is what will swing his potential to be an all star. Can he shoot at a good % with good volume? I have my doubts since he showed a lot of variance shooting the 3 ball( in the beginning and end of the season), so thats are main worries.

Tre shooting is really OP. He shot like 42% from 3 on CS and had like 45% on stepback 3, thats screams harden too me. His passing is underrated too, i can see him complementing Maxey well, since he had really good passes.The bad things are his driving game and defense. I think he can be an adequate driver( saw some highlights of him with some nice drives) since he seems to have sneaky athletiscism. He´s really bad playing defense, but i just dont value that area much on guards. There´s a fear that Tre may be just a shooter, which is real, so he would be more of a 6th man kinda of player. But i dont think so, his off the drible shooting is insane man, so i think he projects as a good starter, even an allstar.

So it´s really hard to make the choice. I really wanted to draft Ace, because i prefer wings, but it seems that the chance of that happening is almost zero now. Really hard to pick between VJ or Tre...

VJ takes it for me for 3 reasons. First, he's shown a semi-meteoric rise in skill development in just the past 2 years; going from outside the Top 100 to a Top 5 pick. Guys who flash rapid development like that are solid bets to continue to improve (think Maxey, SGA, Joel). Two, he's closer to a two-way player than Tre is at this point and if he can reach a higher level offensively with his athleticism he could become something truly special. Third, he blows Tre out of the water on the intangibles scale. VJ is on Cooper Flagg level of elite desire to become better and do whatever it takes to win. Tre, while reported to be a Jimmy Butler level of hard worker and dedication; is more about his own game and less about team success (see no defense and open bad body language during games towards teammates).

[Black Mage]

I think that the Sixers want VJ, Nets/Wizards want Ace and are willing to trade up. I also think the Sixers don’t want to pay #3 money, but the Hornets will take VJ at 4. So kind of stuck in a predicament.

I agree with the stuck, but there are reports the Sixers are prepared to enter the 2nd apron to maximize this pick and talent. Almost sounded like they might even consider moving back into the first if it gets them more young talent.

[Black Mage]

Watch on YouTube

There are a lot of plays of Tre driving to the rim in this video. I dont think its too much to ask that he can became a decent driver in the NBA( with his athletic abilities and size), with more spacing. If he becomes good at it, generating some fts, his offensive game will be really hard to stop.

Watch his elevation on his drives. He scored a 37.5 vertical at the combine; but his in game vertical is much shorter than that. He can't seem to generate an explosive leap off one or two feet during games.

He's also stiff in the hips (more evident on defense) which hinders his ability to slither/wiggle into the paint to get to the rim. Tre is probably a taller, longer version of JJ.

[Black Mage]

If we draft VJ we commit to Maxey being the PG, which i think its suboptimal, because he isnt that good of a passer( although he improved a little) and he´s more efficient as an off guard. While if we draft Harper and Tre they will, atleast after the first season, be lead guards while Maxey will be our SG.

[x]

Read on Twitter

?

I can see Morey picking Tre because he sees a little Harden on him. You can see that Tre is already a better passer than Tyrese, so i think it makes sense that he will be the lead guard if we get him. If Maxey could get 6 APG i dont see why Tre cant get atleast 7, since his vision is already way more advanced than Maxey´s.

Do yourself a favor, don't listen to Barlowe.