BREAKING: Magic acquire Desmond Bane (KCP, Cole + 4 1st Round Picks + 1 1st Round Pick Swap)

[Bensational]

You’re taking what he’s saying far too literally.

The reason why the comparison with Boston isn’t a good one is because both Tatum and Brown are both high volume, high accuracy three point shooters and Paolo and Franz are not.

Like we can talk about the lack of shooting from the role players and the lack of playmaking overall, but until Paolo and Franz become better (and more willing, but that typically comes with better accuracy) three point shooters, it’s unlikely the Magic will have a top caliber offense.

Paolo in his 3rd season took 6 3fgas per game, Tatum in his 3rd season took 7. Paolo is obviously a worse shooter, but the volume is there at a comparable age/experience.

Franz in his 4th season took 5.9 3fgas, Brown in his 3rd season took the same amount of- but again, a better shooter.

The volume is there from our leads and it will continue to grow - hopefully the efficiency does as well. That will clearly be a deciding factor in the team’s ceiling.

But there just isn’t another blueprint for team makeup that compares as well as Boston’s does for us. And we’re going to have to tailor that to the pieces we end up with, too. No team is an exact match of a previous team.

[Knightro]

Paolo in his 3rd season took 6 3fgas per game, Tatum in his 3rd season took 7. Paolo is obviously a worse shooter, but the volume is there at a comparable age/experience.

Franz in his 4th season took 5.9 3fgas, Brown in his 3rd season took the same amount of- but again, a better shooter.

The volume is there from our leads and it will continue to grow - hopefully the efficiency does as well. That will clearly be a deciding factor in the team’s ceiling.

But there just isn’t another blueprint for team makeup that compares as well as Boston’s does for us. And we’re going to have to tailor that to the pieces we end up with, too. No team is an exact match of a previous team.

The volume is not really comparable though because Paolo and Franz have much higher usage rates at the same experience level than Tatum and Brown had. They're using a lot more possessions and still taking a much lower volume of threes at obviously much worse accuracy.

Tatum in year 3: 38.3% of all of his attempts were 3s and he made 40%.

Paolo in year 3: 29.9% of all of his attempts were 3s and he made 32%.

Brown in year 4: 38.1% of all of his attempts were 3s and he made 38%.

Franz in year 4: 30.3% of all of his attempts were 3s and he made 29.5%.

These are not simply comparable. The gap between the Boston guys and the Orlando guys is actually staggering.

[Dub_Sax]

I stopped listening after he referred to Bane as an Orlando "magician". That's just soooo corny...smh

We use the same term here.

It is standard nomenclature for Orlando media and Orlando fans to call players "Magicians". It's always been that way!

Recall that this was once an offical Orlando Magic mascot, and the Magic has been full-camp for 35+ year!

Wow. Didn't realize it was used that much. Makes sense why they changed the mascot to Stuff, tho. They prolly said "Magicians? That's corny as hell! Let's find another mascot."

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[BadMofoPimp]

I just wonder as there is only one basketball with 4 guys who like to score. Paolo looks to chuck whenever he gets the ball in his hands, especially being he is looking for that Max contract. Will be interesting for sure.

Theres team USA and you can bet everyone there including thr ball boy wants to score.. but seriously... BOS does. KP Brown Tatum and White i think likes to score..

But naaah. Paolo said to all that he wants to facilitate aka wants those trip-dubs.

Suggs also just wants to beat people.

So you might say Franz is the purest scoring mindset we have in our starting five.

Not so sure about that. Paolo may say that but many times gets tunnel vision looking to score first. Sure that is an alpha mindset which is good, but if he is truly looking for a max contract, that trumps team play at times.

[Bensational]

Paolo in his 3rd season took 6 3fgas per game, Tatum in his 3rd season took 7. Paolo is obviously a worse shooter, but the volume is there at a comparable age/experience.

Franz in his 4th season took 5.9 3fgas, Brown in his 3rd season took the same amount of- but again, a better shooter.

The volume is there from our leads and it will continue to grow - hopefully the efficiency does as well. That will clearly be a deciding factor in the team’s ceiling.

But there just isn’t another blueprint for team makeup that compares as well as Boston’s does for us. And we’re going to have to tailor that to the pieces we end up with, too. No team is an exact match of a previous team.

The volume is not really comparable though because Paolo and Franz have much higher usage rates at the same experience level than Tatum and Brown had. They're using a lot more possessions and still taking a much lower volume of threes at obviously much worse accuracy.

Tatum in year 3: 38.3% of all of his attempts were 3s and he made 40%.

Paolo in year 3: 29.9% of all of his attempts were 3s and he made 32%.

Brown in year 4: 38.1% of all of his attempts were 3s and he made 38%.

Franz in year 4: 30.3% of all of his attempts were 3s and he made 29.5%.

These are not simply comparable. The gap between the Boston guys and the Orlando guys is actually staggering.

Yeah, there are clearly differences in how they are scoring points, but to say the exact same volume of shots isn't comparable just because the total shot diet isn't an exact match is really splitting hairs. If Paolo and Franz start shooting as well as Tatum and Brown whilst maintaining their offensive X factor in their high FTr and higher AST% at younger ages, they'll be an even more potent package.

This is a deviation from the original point, that both Paolo and Franz create all of their offense from the outside-in. What I think VFX should have said as a distinguishing difference is that Tatum and Brown's X factor is from the outside, whilst Paolo and Franz's is from the inside where they get to the line a lot. We clearly need shrink the delta in difference between them, but as Tatum and Brown started as great shooters and had to grow into high USG playmakers, Paolo and Franz instead started as high level interior scorers and need to grow into high volume and efficiency shooters.

And again, there's not many other examples of successful team blueprints to hold up as an example to emulate (within reason), which was my main point. Happy to discuss other comparisons if anyone has them.

[BadMofoPimp]

David Steele's reaction

https://youtu.be/E87rfQUh_tE?si=fwuiZ_xKm8Aadgtf

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I stopped listening after he referred to Bane as an Orlando "magician". That's just soooo corny...smh

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David Steele is right, it would be a very good deal if we could retain Gary Harris on a Min Vet contract, Gary as a 3rd SG would be a great insurance

I know Jeff mentioned Jett and Goga in his interview leaving us to think that they ll be here next season but if we really want to go for it this year we should talk to Lopez or horford and see if they d be willing to take a 1+1 MLE type contract with us, if they do, then we could do something like that

Draft a small with #25 Jase or Clayton jr
Join the KD trade (as a 3rd or 4th team) and send Goga + Jett (dump) for Royce Oneil
Offer a 1+1 contract to Moe starting at 7M
Draft a SG using our SRPs like Lanier/Brea


Suggs,AB, Jase/clayton
Bane,Harris, Jase/clayton,Brea
Franz, Royce Oneil, TDS
P5,JI,Houstan
WCJ,Horford,Moe

I wouldn't trade Goga for Oneal, but would do Slim and Jett for Oneal.

[basketballRob]

Paolo in his 3rd season took 6 3fgas per game, Tatum in his 3rd season took 7. Paolo is obviously a worse shooter, but the volume is there at a comparable age/experience.

Franz in his 4th season took 5.9 3fgas, Brown in his 3rd season took the same amount of- but again, a better shooter.

The volume is there from our leads and it will continue to grow - hopefully the efficiency does as well. That will clearly be a deciding factor in the team’s ceiling.

But there just isn’t another blueprint for team makeup that compares as well as Boston’s does for us. And we’re going to have to tailor that to the pieces we end up with, too. No team is an exact match of a previous team.

The volume is not really comparable though because Paolo and Franz have much higher usage rates at the same experience level than Tatum and Brown had. They're using a lot more possessions and still taking a much lower volume of threes at obviously much worse accuracy.

Tatum in year 3: 38.3% of all of his attempts were 3s and he made 40%.

Paolo in year 3: 29.9% of all of his attempts were 3s and he made 32%.

Brown in year 4: 38.1% of all of his attempts were 3s and he made 38%.

Franz in year 4: 30.3% of all of his attempts were 3s and he made 29.5%.

These are not simply comparable. The gap between the Boston guys and the Orlando guys is actually staggering.

Brown shot 324 this season.

You are a product of your environment. David Steele made a good point about Suggs. He said when Paolo went out, Suggs stopped getting set 3-pt shots. Suggs isn’t good at creating 3s for himself.

Aaron Gordon shot 53/44/81 with a 607 EFG with a 650 TS. Ty Jerome shot 52/44/87 with a 606 EFG and 743 TS. These players are a product of their environment. If Franz was on Denver, the past 4 seasons, I have no doubt he would've been shooting around 40% from 3.

I'm really curious what Franz and Paolo will look like this year with Bane and a healthy Suggs.

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[bigdogdylan5]

Just bought magic season tickets for first time in my life! So stoked for this! So proud of this team for taking the risk and acquiring what should be a real difference maker and presumably the investment in money that will come with it!

[basketballRob]

Just bought magic season tickets for first time in my life! So stoked for this! So proud of this team for taking the risk and acquiring what should be a real difference maker and presumably the investment in money that will come with it!

Congratulations

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[RookieStar]

I just wonder as there is only one basketball with 4 guys who like to score. Paolo looks to chuck whenever he gets the ball in his hands, especially being he is looking for that Max contract. Will be interesting for sure.

Theres team USA and you can bet everyone there including thr ball boy wants to score.. but seriously... BOS does. KP Brown Tatum and White i think likes to score..

But naaah. Paolo said to all that he wants to facilitate aka wants those trip-dubs.

Suggs also just wants to beat people.

So you might say Franz is the purest scoring mindset we have in our starting five.

Not so sure about that. Paolo may say that but many times gets tunnel vision looking to score first. Sure that is an alpha mindset which is good, but if he is truly looking for a max contract, that trumps team play at times.

I think for Paolo, Max contract is too low a bar. He wants the LBJ Luka accolade for scoring assists playmaking while bing a big man.

He can turn on his alpha mindset in the last 5mins or when needed kinda like what those guys do.

[BadMofoPimp]

Why does it matter that Bane was drafted #30? You think Kwame Brown was still looked at as a first overall pick after playing? Should Denver trade Jokic for multiple second round picks because of where he was drafted? There’s no logic to that. Also, I wouldn’t trust this front office to do anything with those later first round picks anyways. We don’t need anymore Okeke’s on this team. That’s who we drafted the last time we had #16.

The Magic are going to die on this hill of not having a true PG & having multiple guys who can handle the ball. People that keep bringing up what Bane did against OKC who has arguably the best defense ever is silly. Even Haliburton hasn’t looked great against those guys & hes about as true of a PG as you’ll find now.

If this is the ONLY move, then yeah I’ll be somewhat disappointed but if we’re able to shed some of this other dead weight (I keep hearing Isaac & Carter are such good contracts after all) & bring in a couple of vets on cheap deals we should be fine. I’m not sure what PG out there even makes us a contender anyways.

Jordan/Pippen didn't have a true playmaking PG. Lebron didn't in LA either. There are multiple ways to win ships.

[BadMofoPimp]

Why do you keep saying we traded 5 picks?

Because that pick swap right has almost no protection on it ( 3-30 unprotected). Also due complete lack of assets and salary limitations Magic will trade out that 29' pick eventually ( case and point- Suns trades ).

Only things Magic can trade are:
25th pick- but not before draft night
2027 pick ( but no until 2026 draft , as far as i know, due Stepien rule)
2029 pick ( with swap right) but not until 2028


That's it.


If you want to get really specific, Magic gave up 5 first round picks- 3 unprotected picks, 1 top 2 protected swap and 16# pick in upcoming draft . Better?

It was four picks, a swap, Cole, and KCP, not five firsts. Three of the picks are likely in the 20s, and this year’s is number 16. The swap only matters if Memphis finishes ahead of us in 2029. This wasn't mortgaging the future, it was consolidating marginal assets for an all-star talent in his prime. If that feels like an overpay, you're either missing context or you just don't understand how to read the market. Judging by your posts, it's the latter. Every take you post bends facts into pessimism. I respond because that kind of noise shouldn't go unchecked.

Eyriq provin em all wrong!!!

[Knightro]

Aaron Gordon shot 53/44/81 with a 607 EFG with a 650 TS. Ty Jerome shot 52/44/87 with a 606 EFG and 743 TS. These players are a product of their environment. If Franz was on Denver, the past 4 seasons, I have no doubt he would've been shooting around 40% from 3.

I'm really curious what Franz and Paolo will look like this year with Bane and a healthy Suggs.

Role players are products of their environment.

Guys with USG over 30 are the ones who are making their environment a product of themselves.

[BadMofoPimp]

I would like them to see if they can get a backup PG that can be more traditional so we can maintain flexibility.

I agree. Tyus Jones, come on down.

Tyus size and defense are question marks. He signed with Suns based on starting and playing time. Vets who still have value. They want guaranteed playing time. He ain’t starting here and I believe AB is going to get a ton of minutes to continue to develop.

I’m pro Tyus but we just got rid of our short boys.

Tyus ain't signing no low contract offer just to ride the bench. He did with the Suns to be a starter on a good team.

[Knightro]

I've shared this stat before, but I'll share it again...

16 NBA players had a USG rate over 30% last season.

Of those 16...

Paolo was 15th of 16 in TS%.

Franz was 14th of 16 in TS%.

If you expand it a little past 30% and pick up the next 10 players on the USG% list, Paolo drops to 25th of 26 and Franz to 24th of 26.

[thelead]

I agree. Tyus Jones, come on down.

Tyus size and defense are question marks. He signed with Suns based on starting and playing time. Vets who still have value. They want guaranteed playing time. He ain’t starting here and I believe AB is going to get a ton of minutes to continue to develop.

I’m pro Tyus but we just got rid of our short boys.

Tyus ain't signing no low contract offer just to ride the bench. He did with the Suns to be a starter on a good team.

and his value is lower and I don't see a lot of starting gigs anymore. Do you?

[BadMofoPimp]

Read on Twitter

?s=46

I love what he's saying...but

Is he "somebody" or just some douche who photoshopped/edited in Bill Simmons as if they're colleagues having a conversation.

I really hate this time in history where any jerkoff with a microphone in his Mom's wood-paneled basement can arrogantly come across as some kind of expert. Everyone on RealGM seems to be comfortable with the idea (or should be) that we're just fans talking - don't listen to me for new info. I'd like to go back to the times where I could just hate "legitimate" media experts like Stephen A. for his lazy arrogant takes. or the punter guy who suddenly knows a lot about basketball.

Please tell me if I'm just ignorant about this guy and his place in the media.

That guy is a Magic forum poster from RealGM.

[BadMofoPimp]

Paolo - Tatum
Franz - Brown
Bane - White
Suggs - JRue

We’re in a strong position to recreate Boston’s blueprint. Just need to split the difference better in the following -

Isaac - KP
(?) - Pritchard
WCJ - Horford
Goga - Kornet
Houstan - Hauser
AB - (?)
MoWag - (?)

This comparison will never die. I get it because it’s the most obvious correlation we have, but it’s just not accurate in terms of reality or how the game is played.

Jrue Holiday is an actual playmaking point guard. Hes averaged 6.5-8 assists his entire career as one. His picture would pop up in a dictionary if you searched “point guard”, but Chris Paul’s photo is already there. Suggs is just a younger Derrick White clone. Bane is the same thing with a different physical profile but more on the offense side. Those guys are nowhere close to having a track record or ability as playmakers on Jrue Holidays level.

The other massive difference here is Tatum and Paolo. They aren’t remotely the same player. Tatum plays out - in and Paolo play in - in. Since 2020 Tatum has taken 7-10 3pa per game on high efficiency. Paolo averages 4.5 for his career. Just a chasm of a gap in how those two guys score and how an entire offense is run from their tendencies. It’s just fairly obvious when watching either of these teams too.

Those two distinctions are huge and why comparing those blueprints is foolish. But sure, Orlando needs a scoring punch playmaking guard like Pritchard off the bench.

It’s the most accurate in so far as matching our distribution of roles.

JRue Holiday has not run PG for Boston as the primary offensive hub, Tatum and Brown have been doing that same as Paolo and Franz. JRue averaged basically the same APG as Black.

And Paolo doesn’t play “in in”, the guy starts 99% of possessions on the perimeter and creates from the outside attacking the paint same as Tatum. And check the comparison of their advanced stats, it’s almost a line for line match except for scoring efficiency, but we’re comparing a 3rd year player to a 8 year NBA champion and 2-time finalist.

The Boston blueprint is the most obvious for us to follow. It’s a proven winner. We’re amassing a collection of guys with similar comparable sets.

Ben provin em all wrong!!!

[BadMofoPimp]

Tyus size and defense are question marks. He signed with Suns based on starting and playing time. Vets who still have value. They want guaranteed playing time. He ain’t starting here and I believe AB is going to get a ton of minutes to continue to develop.

I’m pro Tyus but we just got rid of our short boys.

Tyus ain't signing no low contract offer just to ride the bench. He did with the Suns to be a starter on a good team.

and his value is lower and I don't see a lot of starting gigs anymore. Do you?

No, but I don't see him accepting less than close to the MLE to be a bench warmer after multiple seasons as a starter.

[thelead]

Tyus ain't signing no low contract offer just to ride the bench. He did with the Suns to be a starter on a good team.

and his value is lower and I don't see a lot of starting gigs anymore. Do you?

No, but I don't see him accepting less than close to the MLE.

he won't get close to the MLE. He F'ed up by choosing PHX last summer.