2025 Draft prospects - thread 3

[GuardianEnzo]

I heard Ace's camp is angling for Brooklyn.

nasty work.

So not only is his talent level questionable, but he is also a cancer already.

That's not his reputation. Immature but well-liked is what seems to be the consensus.

[BullsSD]

Flash Q: in a world where Bailey falls past pick #3: Would you do our FRP next year + the Portland + our first this year (#12) to move up to pick 4-6 to get him? Would you see that as a win or an overpay?

Hell no. Too risky to give next year’s pick.

Couldn't agree more. It's honestly comical.

[ThisGuyFawkes]

Flash Q: in a world where Bailey falls past pick #3: Would you do our FRP next year + the Portland + our first this year (#12) to move up to pick 4-6 to get him? Would you see that as a win or an overpay?

Hell no. Too risky to give next year’s pick.

Couldn't agree more. It's honestly comical.

I don’t think we can trade a 25 and 26 FRP unless we’ve already made the 25 pick, correct?

[DuckIII]

Become a respectable shooter from 3 or midrange, or become a great interior finisher.

Yeah. I doubt whoever drafts him will let him play out of the post and face up like he did at South Carolina. When you aren't the featured player, complementary skills like shooting become more important. Centers are the exception.

If the shooting never develops, is he good enough at the other aspects of the game to positively impact the team? I'm not sure.

I don't know why you're arguing that a team would or should simply disregard the things CMB is good at to pigeon hole him into a role that is a fraction of his talent, skill and capability....just because?

Complimentary skills are not limited to shooting. He adds value with or without the basketball despite being a bad perimeter shooter.

1.13 PPP in Post-Ups
1.66 PPP on Cuts
1.28 PPP on possessions ending in his shot, pass or turnover
1.10 PPP in transition
1.17 PPP in isolation
0.92 PPP on 103 Drives
69.7% on rim attempts with more than 47 percent of those being self-created attempts
7.7 FTA Per 40 Minutes
+ 8.2 Adj. oRTG on/off (85th Percentile)
- 8.2 Adj. dRTG on/off (94th Percentile)
10.3 BPM as a freshman on a tournament team. The next closest player was at 6.9.
11.9 BPM the following season. The next closest player was at 4.1.

Yes, he's already good enough at other offensive aspects of the game to positively impact a team. He was one of the best two-way players in college basketball last season as a 19-year-old. He has one of the best all-around games in the draft. Point blank.

The sell of CMB is not drafting a one-dimensional defensive player and hoping he becomes competent on offense one day. The sell is drafting a really good two-way player and hoping he becomes a better shooter.

It's not really about disregarding what he's good at; it's simply the nature of the game today. Post ups/Isolations are reserved for the select few. Unless you are drafted to a team where you can do whatever you want, isolations and post ups are for those who have proven themselves as offensive threats in the NBA.

Edey was the most dominant offensive force in college basketball in over 10 years. Edey got 1.4 post ups per game according to the NBA's tracking stats. Sure, Edey was drafted to an established team that already had a pecking order, but this was expected. He had to scale down to a smaller role.

CMB will get his chances to show his offensive capabilities, but saying teams won't let him play like he did at South Carolina shouldn't be controversial. I mentioned featured player for a reason, I doubt an NBA team is going to run offense through him like they did in college. He will likely have to scale down into a smaller role, like most players. Only a select few players are exempt from this.


Evan Mobley had a 12.6 BPM as a freshman.
Shot 78.5% at the rim, with only 52.2% being assisted, makes
1.41 PPP on shots at the rim in the halfcourt.
46% on non-paint 2pt shots with only 41.7% being assisted on. 72 makes as well so a decent sample. This is also more makes than CMB had in 2 seasons.
0.97 PPP on halfcourt jump shots
1.14 PPP on floaters
6.9 FTAs per 40 mins.
0.71 PPP on post ups
Mobley is also 7ft tall and a vertical spacer

Evan Mobley was a superior prospect on both ends IMO, and his offensive skill set has been questioned multiple times. 3 years of diminishing returns playing him next to Jarrett Allen, a non-shooting big. In the first 3 seasons of Mobley's career, lineups with only Allen were better than lineups with Allen and Mobley. It took a new coach in Kenny Atkinson, and Mobley improving across the board to fully utilize this pair.

A lot of the same thing could be said about Mobley, but that didn't make the transition easy, and CMB can't just play center if things don't work out as a PF.

At the end of the day, I just don’t agree with you about CMB’s translation. He is a multi tooled offensive player who scores in a variety of ways and is an excellent passer. Plus none of that is his primary strength, which is defense.

Nonetheless, that was a very interesting and thought provoking read. Appreciate the research as well.

[DuckIII]

I heard Ace's camp is angling for Brooklyn.

nasty work.

So not only is his talent level questionable, but he is also a cancer already.

That's not his reputation. Immature but well-liked is what seems to be the consensus.

Also, no one is criticizing Ace. The criticisms are of what his camp is doing.

[GuardianEnzo]

So not only is his talent level questionable, but he is also a cancer already.

That's not his reputation. Immature but well-liked is what seems to be the consensus.

Also, no one is criticizing Ace. The criticisms are of what his camp is doing.

I think calling somebody that specifically implies a personal criticism of that guy.

[DuckIII]

That's not his reputation. Immature but well-liked is what seems to be the consensus.

Also, no one is criticizing Ace. The criticisms are of what his camp is doing.

I think calling somebody that specifically implies a personal criticism of that guy.

Oh, I misread his post. I thought he was being sarcastic.

[WindyCityBorn]

So not only is his talent level questionable, but he is also a cancer already.

That's not his reputation. Immature but well-liked is what seems to be the consensus.

Also, no one is criticizing Ace. The criticisms are of what his camp is doing.

His camp goes away once he gets drafted?

[kodo]

Flash Q: in a world where Bailey falls past pick #3: Would you do our FRP next year + the Portland + our first this year (#12) to move up to pick 4-6 to get him? Would you see that as a win or an overpay?

Hell no. Too risky to give next year’s pick.

x100. Imagine giving up two picks to draft Wiseman or Bagley or Ayton.
Drafts have some sure things, this one is Flagg. Bailey is far from a sure thing, neither is Harper TBH.

Also outside of Flagg, this isn't seen as a good draft. Average or above average.
Next year is the opposite, no Flagg at the top but considered excellent overall and much better than this draft. If you're not a bottom team and likely picking mid like us, next year's draft is going to be much better for you.

[patryk7754]

Recently learned of Cedric coward. He seems to be extremely polished and efficient. Not sure what his ceiling is, but he looks to have a high floor. 12 seems to be a little too high for him so I think the best move would be to try to move down. I wonder if the heat would be willing to do a cony white and 12 for ware and 20 trade.

[sco]

Flash Q: in a world where Bailey falls past pick #3: Would you do our FRP next year + the Portland + our first this year (#12) to move up to pick 4-6 to get him? Would you see that as a win or an overpay?

Hell no. Too risky to give next year’s pick.

I don't want to either, and I don't think it would be enough to get the pick anyway. I'd just rather see if we could trade the POR 1st for a pick in the 16-24 range and draft a C prospect.

[Red Larrivee]

It's not really about disregarding what he's good at; it's simply the nature of the game today. Post ups/Isolations are reserved for the select few. Unless you are drafted to a team where you can do whatever you want, isolations and post ups are for those who have proven themselves as offensive threats in the NBA.

Edey was the most dominant offensive force in college basketball in over 10 years. Edey got 1.4 post ups per game according to the NBA's tracking stats. Sure, Edey was drafted to an established team that already had a pecking order, but this was expected. He had to scale down to a smaller role.

CMB will get his chances to show his offensive capabilities, but saying teams won't let him play like he did at South Carolina shouldn't be controversial. I mentioned featured player for a reason, I doubt an NBA team is going to run offense through him like they did in college. He will likely have to scale down into a smaller role, like most players. Only a select few players are exempt from this.

There's a difference between featuring someone and playing to their strengths when they're in the game.

I'm not saying the Bulls should draft CMB and feature him. I'm saying they should draft him and play to his strengths, which happen to be damn near everything on offense that isn't about shooting a three-point shot. The way some are talking about him in this thread, you'd swear he can't do anything on offense and that he's a liability. You can play to his strengths with or without the basketball.

Putting him into some limited, defensive specialist role that makes no use of his offensive talent as a rookie makes no sense. He can be in a smaller role that still plays to his strengths in some capacity on offense.

[sco]

It's not really about disregarding what he's good at; it's simply the nature of the game today. Post ups/Isolations are reserved for the select few. Unless you are drafted to a team where you can do whatever you want, isolations and post ups are for those who have proven themselves as offensive threats in the NBA.

Edey was the most dominant offensive force in college basketball in over 10 years. Edey got 1.4 post ups per game according to the NBA's tracking stats. Sure, Edey was drafted to an established team that already had a pecking order, but this was expected. He had to scale down to a smaller role.

CMB will get his chances to show his offensive capabilities, but saying teams won't let him play like he did at South Carolina shouldn't be controversial. I mentioned featured player for a reason, I doubt an NBA team is going to run offense through him like they did in college. He will likely have to scale down into a smaller role, like most players. Only a select few players are exempt from this.

There's a difference between featuring someone and playing to their strengths when they're in the game.

I'm not saying the Bulls should draft CMB and feature him. I'm saying they should draft him and play to his strengths, which happen to be damn near everything on offense that isn't about shooting a three-point shot. The way some are talking about him in this thread, you'd swear he can't do anything on offense and that he's a liability. You can play to his strengths with or without the basketball.

Putting him into some limited, defensive specialist role that makes no use of his offensive talent as a rookie makes no sense. He can be in a smaller role that still plays to his strengths in some capacity on offense.

I don't hate the CMB idea. At least he has shown an elite skillset defensively and seems not terrible offensively...unlike Demin and Queen who seem to be liabilities on defense and have red flags on offense.

[Jvaughn]

Recently learned of Cedric coward. He seems to be extremely polished and efficient. Not sure what his ceiling is, but he looks to have a high floor. 12 seems to be a little too high for him so I think the best move would be to try to move down. I wonder if the heat would be willing to do a cony white and 12 for ware and 20 trade.

Board was pretty high on him (I still am) a few weeks ago. I don't think 12 would be a stretch at all, especially if some of our targets are already off the board and we're stuck looking at Queen or Newell.

The big knocks on Coward is that he only played a handful of games this year at Washington St and the comp he played against at E. Washington wasn't all that great. There are also questions on his on the ball offense. I'm not overly concerned about that though. He's an elite catch and shooter with some very good defensive skills. If you envision Matas staying at the 4, Coward would be a great offensive compliment at the 3.

[Jcool0]

Read on Twitter

[sco]

Read on Twitter

I'm good with CC but after Tyrus Thomas' "soul stealing" comments, I just equate it to good PR that should be ignored.

[BullsSD]

Read on Twitter

I'm good with CC but after Tyrus Thomas' "soul stealing" comments, I just equate it to good PR that should be ignored.

To be fair, Tyrus did catch a couple bodies. Lol.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

Read on Twitter

I'm good with CC but after Tyrus Thomas' "soul stealing" comments, I just equate it to good PR that should be ignored.

Not that it has any bearing on his draft stock, but Coward can be a little corny.

[patryk7754]

Recently learned of Cedric coward. He seems to be extremely polished and efficient. Not sure what his ceiling is, but he looks to have a high floor. 12 seems to be a little too high for him so I think the best move would be to try to move down. I wonder if the heat would be willing to do a cony white and 12 for ware and 20 trade.

Board was pretty high on him (I still am) a few weeks ago. I don't think 12 would be a stretch at all, especially if some of our targets are already off the board and we're stuck looking at Queen or Newell.

The big knocks on Coward is that he only played a handful of games this year at Washington St and the comp he played against at E. Washington wasn't all that great. There are also questions on his on the ball offense. I'm not overly concerned about that though. He's an elite catch and shooter with some very good defensive skills. If you envision Matas staying at the 4, Coward would be a great offensive compliment at the 3.

Yeah, catch and shoot seems to be his strength. In the brief time I’ve spent watching him, he reminds me of Danny green

[2weekswithpay]

It's not really about disregarding what he's good at; it's simply the nature of the game today. Post ups/Isolations are reserved for the select few. Unless you are drafted to a team where you can do whatever you want, isolations and post ups are for those who have proven themselves as offensive threats in the NBA.

Edey was the most dominant offensive force in college basketball in over 10 years. Edey got 1.4 post ups per game according to the NBA's tracking stats. Sure, Edey was drafted to an established team that already had a pecking order, but this was expected. He had to scale down to a smaller role.

CMB will get his chances to show his offensive capabilities, but saying teams won't let him play like he did at South Carolina shouldn't be controversial. I mentioned featured player for a reason, I doubt an NBA team is going to run offense through him like they did in college. He will likely have to scale down into a smaller role, like most players. Only a select few players are exempt from this.

There's a difference between featuring someone and playing to their strengths when they're in the game.

I'm not saying the Bulls should draft CMB and feature him. I'm saying they should draft him and play to his strengths, which happen to be damn near everything on offense that isn't about shooting a three-point shot. The way some are talking about him in this thread, you'd swear he can't do anything on offense and that he's a liability. You can play to his strengths with or without the basketball.

Putting him into some limited, defensive specialist role that makes no use of his offensive talent as a rookie makes no sense. He can be in a smaller role that still plays to his strengths in some capacity on offense.

I agree, but playing CMB to his strengths means using him as a hub IMO. The screen, passing, and driving won't pop unless he's used as a hub or primary screener. I'm not against drafting him, and the Bulls have the frontcourt shooting to play to utilize him properly (Vuc/Smith), but stretch bigs are still a luxury, and most teams struggle to make non-spacing frontcourt pairs work.

I don't think he's a bad offensive player, but I'm not nearly as confident that the shooting won't be an issue. The team that had the most success playing a non-shooting frontcourt was the 2020 Lakers with AD, Dwight, and Javale. The double big lineups were effective, but the lineups with just AD were even better.

I think a Brandon Clarke outcome being a 20-24 minutes per game rotational big is more likely than CMB being a full-time starter. Still a good outcome, but not the Draymond upside I commonly see.