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2025 Draft Thread - Part 3

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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#721 » by doclinkin » Thu Jun 19, 2025 11:38 pm

payitforward wrote:
doclinkin wrote:Right. After the fact reveal. Bub I recall as a ninja stealth pick. With info coming that they had him in late. His interview sealed it. They traded Deni hours later.

My recollection is quite different. I think we were all pretty clear that they were very interested in Bub, & - as zards mentioned - the kid was also in the news as moving up draft boards.

Is my recollection accurate? No idea.....


Find a quote. My recollection is he was only on the radar of DCZards. Nobody else had much thought about him and no news reports otherwise I would have been doing more research on him.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#722 » by payitforward » Thu Jun 19, 2025 11:41 pm

doclinkin wrote:
payitforward wrote:Ace Bailey is extremely talented - no one questions that. But I have no interest in him.

Talented as he is, his numbers don't really reflect that talent. &, above all, the attitude of his camp -- that they want guarantees about playing time & starting -- are absolutely ridiculous. Do you see Cooper Flagg saying dumb stuff like that? No. I want nothing to do with Ace.

Show me a quote where the kid says any of this.

He has an agent who is brand new to the business. Has no other clients. That’s who is pulling this play.

Check interviews with Ace throughout the season. Or with his coaches. He’s talented and tough and wants the ball. But he played well off of Harper. Played in the front court though it’s not his game. Is genuine and goofy but in post game interviews was not blaming teammates etc. Despite having no team around him.

Alex Sarrs team did the same thing. If we got chased away by that supposed attitude problem we would have missed out on a solid thoughtful quality human being. For the sole reason that agents are @ssholes.

Brooklyn is a bigger market. An agent gets a cut off all the off court deals. If he can steer the kid there he makes more money. Has nothing to do with if the kid can play ball.

Like him on his stats or not. But this kind of smear campaign tends to be the reason why Paul Pierce and Caron Butler slide in the draft. And teams who whiff on them regret it.

As with nate's post, you make an altogether valid point. & I'm glad to read your post.

If a 19-year old kid cedes his voice to some so-called experience professional adults, that's no big surprise either. For his sake, I hope someone with more experience & sense comes along to undo this foolish rhetoric.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#723 » by Dat2U » Thu Jun 19, 2025 11:46 pm

I would happily take on PG's contract to draft VJ at 3 & maybe even offer a future 1st we aquired elsewhere but that's as far as I would go.

I would also trade up slightly for Tre Johnson at 4 or 5. Again I'd offer to take on an unwanted contract but I would max out at 4 future 2nds.

I would not trade up for Ace because it appears a good chance he falls to 6th. I ignore the agents talk and draft him. If Brooklyn wants him, they need to make an offer.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#724 » by payitforward » Thu Jun 19, 2025 11:55 pm

Dat2U wrote:Some of my best posts of all time have been lost due to realgm timing out on my phone. :(

That's nothing. Some of my best posts of all time have been lost due to my forgetting what I was trying to say in the middle of writing it.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#725 » by Dat2U » Thu Jun 19, 2025 11:55 pm

doclinkin wrote:
payitforward wrote:
doclinkin wrote:Right. After the fact reveal. Bub I recall as a ninja stealth pick. With info coming that they had him in late. His interview sealed it. They traded Deni hours later.

My recollection is quite different. I think we were all pretty clear that they were very interested in Bub, & - as zards mentioned - the kid was also in the news as moving up draft boards.

Is my recollection accurate? No idea.....


Find a quote. My recollection is he was only on the radar of DCZards. Nobody else had much thought about him and no news reports otherwise I would have been doing more research on him.


To my credit, he ended up 14th on my board which is where he was drafted. I remember I couldn't find a direct comparable but I said I viewed him as an inverse of Spencer Dinwiddie as Spencer is the cerebral slasher who could shoot a little and solid 6th man/starter on some good teams vs Bub who was a skilled mid-range shooter who ocassionally slashed who will be a good 6th man/spot starter.

I'm sure the Wizards liked him even more and hope for a higher ceiling though. Smart player with a high IQ and good work ethic. I think he is on track to at least be a quality 6th man. We'll have some indicators by end of yr 3 if his development tracks higher. I need him to learn to play better off the ball however so he can slide to the 2 with no drop in his olay.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#726 » by doclinkin » Thu Jun 19, 2025 11:56 pm

Dat2U wrote:Bailey's HS coaching staff utiilized him better than Rutgers did. This version of Bailey is basically a 6-10 version of Klay Thompson

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What I’ve been saying. We have a solid foundation of selfless team guys. Ball moving passers. We lack the guy who wants the last shot. Bailey moves well off the ball. Knows how to get open. And will shoot on anybody. That sort of player has powerful gravity. Check the studies at the time of the gravity of a player like Davis Bertrans. His quick trigger, height, and off ball motion dragged defenses out of alignment. Even as a decoy he can distort the court. Now imagine a Bertans who can block shots, steal, rebound, and rise above the rim.

And we are mad at a kid who wants to be a star? That kind of motivation drives the best players. Obsessive focus. The desire for the red hot spot light. You think MJ didn’t want to shoot every time he touched it?

Two things to think about when looking at his stats: he’s a perimeter player by inclination, who was forced into the front court. How do his stats look if you think of him as a guard? As a Klay Thompson who can rebound and has the reach of a PF.

Two. He’s young. This is not a 3rd year guy. He didn’t go to IMG Academy or Montverde to share the ball with Flagg and Queen and Newell. He transferred to a bigger city school to get exposure since he was too good for a small town. But had to carry everything there. Be the Man. The fact that he took a back seat to Harper was big. And played as PF. Even Center at times.

I have zero doubt that on this team he’d fit right in. You want a player with a bit of DOG in his attitude. Bub and Kyshawn will bark. Ace has the talent to be able to actually back it up.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#727 » by doclinkin » Fri Jun 20, 2025 12:12 am

To me if he’s there at 6 you snatch him and laugh like a maniac. Then trust Dawkins to come up with a program and coach BK to guide him, and the rest of the team to show him the ropes. The young pups yes but Marcus Smart teaching him defense and low post skills. And Middleton showing by example all the tricks and wrinkles of a +/- champion.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#728 » by Dat2U » Fri Jun 20, 2025 12:12 am

doclinkin wrote:
Dat2U wrote:Bailey's HS coaching staff utiilized him better than Rutgers did. This version of Bailey is basically a 6-10 version of Klay Thompson

Read on Twitter


What I’ve been saying. We have a solid foundation of selfless team guys. Ball moving passers. We lack the guy who wants the last shot. Bailey moves well off the ball. Knows how to get open. And will shoot on anybody. That sort of player has powerful gravity. Check the studies at the time of the gravity of a player like Davis Bertrans. His quick trigger height and off ball motion dragged defenses out of alignment. Even as a decoy he can distort the court. Now imagine a Bertans who can block shots, steal, rebound, and rise above the rim.

And we are mad at a kid who wants to be a star? That kind of motivation drives the best players. Obsessive focus. The desire for the red hot spot light. You think MJ didn’t want to shoot every time he touched it?

Two things to think about when looking at his stats: he’s a perimeter player by inclination. Who was forced into the front court. How do his stats look if you think of him as a guard?

Two. He’s young. This is not a 3rd year guy. He didn’t go to Montverde. He transferred to a bigger city school to get exposure since he was too good for a small town. But had to carry everything there. Be the Man. The fact that he took a back seat to Harper was big. And played as PF. Even Center at times.

I have zero doubt that on this team he’d fit right in. You want a player with a bit of DOG in his attitude. Bub and Kyshawn will bark. Ace has the talent to be able to actually back it up.


Yes, he wants to go to Brooklyn which is honestly and empty canvas but the Wizards roster is tailormade for him in particular. He'd be insulated by his own peers, guys just as young and not much older than him but with a maturity and work ethic that he can lean into. I just like the potential synergy of a Kyshawn/Ace/Bilal trio offensively as Bilal grows on the ball and especially defensively, where the Wizards would have long & lengthy interchangible pieces at the 2,3,4.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#729 » by NatP4 » Fri Jun 20, 2025 12:13 am

tontoz wrote:Does anyone here care about Sarr refusing to work out for Atlanta?

Does anyone in Atlanta care about Jalen Johnson quiting Duke in the middle of the season?

I seriously doubt it.


No, but now it’s time to leak the “even without an official workout/meeting, rumors about Bailey camp pushing for BKN, Wizards would reportedly still take Bailey at #6” and force some offers.

If they can turn #6 into Essengue and #27, much preferred for me. No problem with Bailey or his agent, strictly a better move on the court.

If they stay at 6, I like Ace significantly more than Maluach/Fears/Tre/Queen. The Wizards are a great situation for a young high upside project player.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#730 » by DCZards » Fri Jun 20, 2025 12:17 am

Ace’s agent is Omar Cooper, the father of former Auburn player and NBA draftee Sharife Cooper.

Omar is reportedly the person making demands that’s making Ace look bad and selfish. Omar is getting ripped in some articles I’ve read.

Having said that, I’m still not opposed to taking Ace at 6 if he’s there. He’s a talented kid and I’d hate to look back and say the Zards passed on an all-star because of the actions of a stupid agent.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#731 » by gesa2 » Fri Jun 20, 2025 12:33 am

My mind is all over the place, not just about Ace and his agent. I can talk myself into or out of almost every prospect in our range except Maluach. We all should be glad people much better than me are making this decision!
Making extreme statements like "only" sounds like there are "no" Jokics in this draft? Jokic is an engine that was drafted in the 2nd round. Always a chance to see diamond dropped by sloppy burgular after a theft.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#732 » by The Consiglieri » Fri Jun 20, 2025 12:37 am

doclinkin wrote:To me if he’s there at 6 you snatch him and laugh like a maniac. Then trust Dawkins to come up with a program and coach BK to guide him, and the rest of the team to show him the ropes. The young pups yes but Marcus Smart teaching him defense and low post skills. And Middleton showing by example all the tricks and wrinkles of a +/- champion.

He is absolutely who I'd take, and although its pulling back the calendar quite a way, if we allow him to slip but he snatched up by someone else, it may feel like watching Pierce and Butler falling, helplessly decades ago, I don't think we had a first for Butler, but I do know we just barely missed on Butler (which made landing him in a steal of a trade, wonderful a few years later).
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#733 » by payitforward » Fri Jun 20, 2025 2:14 am

doclinkin wrote:
Dat2U wrote:Bailey's HS coaching staff utiilized him better than Rutgers did. This version of Bailey is basically a 6-10 version of Klay Thompson

Read on Twitter


What I’ve been saying. We have a solid foundation of selfless team guys. Ball moving passers. We lack the guy who wants the last shot. Bailey moves well off the ball. Knows how to get open. And will shoot on anybody. That sort of player has powerful gravity. Check the studies at the time of the gravity of a player like Davis Bertrans. His quick trigger, height, and off ball motion dragged defenses out of alignment. Even as a decoy he can distort the court. Now imagine a Bertans who can block shots, steal, rebound, and rise above the rim.

And we are mad at a kid who wants to be a star? That kind of motivation drives the best players. Obsessive focus. The desire for the red hot spot light. You think MJ didn’t want to shoot every time he touched it?

Two things to think about when looking at his stats: he’s a perimeter player by inclination, who was forced into the front court. How do his stats look if you think of him as a guard? As a Klay Thompson who can rebound and has the reach of a PF.

Two. He’s young. This is not a 3rd year guy. He didn’t go to IMG Academy or Montverde to share the ball with Flagg and Queen and Newell. He transferred to a bigger city school to get exposure since he was too good for a small town. But had to carry everything there. Be the Man. The fact that he took a back seat to Harper was big. And played as PF. Even Center at times.

I have zero doubt that on this team he’d fit right in. You want a player with a bit of DOG in his attitude. Bub and Kyshawn will bark. Ace has the talent to be able to actually back it up.

Fair enough. Just knowing it was an inexperienced agent, not some hand-picked "team," that uttered the nonsensical expectations suffices for me.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#734 » by 9 and 20 » Fri Jun 20, 2025 3:46 am

Love the idea of Bilal/KG/Ace as the three migos. Sarr in the middle and Bub or AJ at point guard. Hopefully at 18 they get a heavyweight to play with Sarr sometimes and spell him at others.

They need to give Sharife Cooper a ten day contract just to make this happen. Get Silver on the phone and make him right the historic lottery wrongs of the past 5 decades.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#735 » by doclinkin » Fri Jun 20, 2025 4:13 am

Dat2U wrote:Yes, he wants to go to Brooklyn which is honestly an empty canvas but the Wizards roster is tailormade for him in particular. He'd be insulated by his own peers, guys just as young and not much older than him but with a maturity and work ethic that he can lean into. I just like the potential synergy of a Kyshawn/Ace/Bilal trio offensively as Bilal grows on the ball and especially defensively, where the Wizards would have long & lengthy interchangible pieces at the 2,3,4.


I like the dynamic with Bub as well. The high asst/to ratio, the fiery but calm leadership. The decision making. Bub played significantly better as a lead guard, there isn’t natural chemistry with Poole. But I can envision it clearly with Ace in motion, the defense stretching and players like Bub and Key exploiting the gaps.

I see Bubs floor generalship growing as we add scorers around him. He and Key see the floor and understand the game instinctively. As the team collectively grows physically stronger they’ll be able to take advantage of mismatches for high percentage plays.

Kyshawn started the season kinda doughy. Finished fit & strong, his shot started to fall as a consequence. If he does in fact grow to 6’10” and continues to add strength he may be a legit option at PF even. With perimeter skills at both ends, he’d be plugged in at any spot 1-4.

Bilal has the quickest twitch jump in the league. I think he will develop that rangy strength. Likewise he grew an inch since he was drafted. Hasn’t yet begun to fill out. But he has been adding playmaking. Ball handling as well. Again with PF length.

As they all improve in outside shot making, the interior opens up for any player to threaten to score. It really opens up If Sarr starts hitting those outside shots.

Opponents chase Ace while Bilal slips back door for a lob. Or George for a layup. Bub finds the gaps in the defense either to feed his guys or hit the high percentage jumper. Sarr drops in bombs from outside forcing the opposing forwards and centers to chase.

I’d want a big power rebounder. A physical defender as an option while our late growth types fill into their frames. I want Sorber as an option to add muscle, even if they slow play his recovery and load manage him. Because not having that guy helps us lose this year anyway.

And at least in the short term Ace could absorb lessons from the fanatic offensive work ethic of Poole. The tough and canny wisdom of Smart. The no frills efficient skills of Middleton.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#736 » by Kanyewest » Fri Jun 20, 2025 5:24 am

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His agent is the father of Sharife Cooper, who was projected to be a 1st rounder and slipped - he represented his son at the time and may have been the reason Cooper slipped.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#737 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Fri Jun 20, 2025 6:00 am

Kanyewest wrote:
Read on Twitter


His agent is the father of Sharife Cooper, who was projected to be a 1st rounder and slipped - he represented his son at the time and may have been the reason Cooper slipped.
tontoz wrote:
Dat2U wrote:Some of my best posts of all time have been lost due to realgm timing out on my phone. :(



Copy them before you hit submit.
That or submit and edit later.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#738 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Fri Jun 20, 2025 7:24 am

My Big Board (1st Round Grade) Updated 6-20-25

(Tier 1)
1. Flagg
2. Harper

(Tier 2)
3. Bryant
4. Fears
5. Knueppel
6. Maluach
7. Tre
8. VJ
9. Queen
10. Bailey

(Tier 3)
11. Beringer
12. Asa
13. Hugo
14. Powell
15. Sorber
16. Wolf
17. Yang
18. Kasparas
19. Egor
20. Traore
21. Coward
22. Essengue
23. McNeeley
24. Fleming

(Tier 4)
25. Thiero
26. Clayton Jr.
27. Saraf
28. Penda
29. CMB
30. Bogoljub
31. Riley
32. Nique
33. Niedenhauser
34. Raynaud
35. Jase
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#739 » by FAH1223 » Fri Jun 20, 2025 9:02 am

The Consiglieri wrote:
Considering all of this, does this Haliburton guy have a history of being "right" or just being into rumors and pretending he's a source (or is he a source?).


NatP4 wrote:
He’s not a writer/reporter, doesn’t work for the organization, it’s just a fan. (Not saying he doesn’t have connections)

OKC is notorious for being a steel trap in terms of not allowing any information to leak from the organization. This seems to be how Dawkins/Winger have operated since coming to DC.

Anything leaking out is probably because they want it to get out there. I’m guessing they would like to trade down, or try to entice a team into making an offer. These rumors center around “secret workouts” with basically every player potentially on the board at 6 -Kon, VJ, Fears, Maluach, Queen, etc..


He actually was a writer/report for Washington City Paper. Also he is credentialed and attends most pressers. Right now, he's doing stuff on ESPN630 DC.


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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#740 » by FAH1223 » Fri Jun 20, 2025 9:12 am

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On Wednesday night, The Stein Line reported details about Bailey's first scheduled visit on an NBA team's turf in this pre-draft process: Philadelphia. Not long after our story dropped, ESPN's lead draft correspondent Jonathan Givony reported that Bailey had abruptly canceled those plans, which only added to the growing uncertainty about how soon Bailey will be selected next Wednesday night after Duke's Cooper Flagg and his Rutgers teammate Dylan Harper.

To be clear: NBA talent evaluators are by no means likening Bailey's fate to what just happened in the NFL Draft with Shedeur Sanders.

"He's not falling into the 20s like Cam Whitmore," said one longtime scout.

However …

The Rutgers forward, who has not completed a known workout with any NBA team in the pre-draft process, was set to arrive in Philadelphia on Thursday for meetings and dining and had a hotel stay arranged as a prelude to an on-court workout Friday with the 76ers. The Stein Line reported on Wednesday night that, at the one-week-out mark, Philadelphia has signaled that it is most strongly leaning toward keeping the No. 3 overall pick and just drafting the player it likes best there. An in-person visit surely would have increased Bailey's chances of becoming the Sixers' selection.

Did Bailey's camp cancel because it is trying to orchestrate where he ultimately lands? Did it cancel because Bailey has a promise from another team in the upper reaches of the lottery? One source briefed on the process told The Stein Line that, contrary to reports, Bailey's camp has not insisted on an iron-clad promise from the Sixers that they will draft him.

Bailey is healthy by all accounts and his shot-making is considered his most elite skill. There's no savvy reason to avoid working out for Philadelphia unless you're secure and comfortable with the Hornets picking you at No. 4. Yet any suggestion of such synergy between Charlotte and Bailey has not yet circulated on the NBA grapevine.

Lottery teams picking below Utah aren't ruling out the Jazz from selecting Bailey fifth. There does not appear to be a surefire phenom for the Jazz to target after the team with the league's worst record this season (17-65) fell as far as it possibly could in the lottery. An upside gamble on Bailey, in theory, could certainly appeal to the Jazz and their new president of basketball operations Austin Ainge. The Jazz also hold the No. 21 pick, veterans such as Collin Sexton and John Collins who are regarded as potential trade candidates and future draft capital to try and acquire an additional lottery pick after theoretically using its own on Bailey. Yet it was just two days ago that we first reported here that Duke big man Khaman Maluach has emerged as a potential draftee for the Jazz at No. 5 after previous workouts with the Wizards, Pelicans and Hawks. I've also heard that Duke guard Kon Kneuppel left his Utah visit earlier this week with the Jazz likewise holding a strong opinion of Flagg's other lottery-rated teammate.

The direction Utah ultimately goes, in short, is not yet clear.

So …

Could Bailey slip all the way to the Brooklyn Nets at No. 8?

Mark that down as another question NBA front offices are posing and considering as we speak.

New Orleans has been routinely painted as a team with great interest in Bailey and, as a result, one looking to move up in the draft from its current No. 7 position. Yet league sources tell Marc Stein, publisher of The Stein Line, that the Pelicans' interest in Bailey has been overstated … and that they have not been actively trying to climb the lottery ladder with Bailey in mind.

Backing up a bit to Washington at No. 6: Bailey's much-criticized approach to the draft process would seem to run incongruent with the Wizards' ways, which have been so heavily influenced by Oklahoma City thanks to Washington's hiring of Thunder alumni Mike Winger and Will Dawkins to run basketball operations.

Any hesitations on Bailey, mind you, do not stem from character concerns. I've only heard NBA and college personnel describe him as an affable young man who is quick to smile and is known for buzzing around the floor during pregame warmups to dap up teammates. One NBA scout yesterday described him as a "sweetheart."


Yet there are concerns among NBA evaluators about Bailey's shot selection and general approach to the game. What is his ceiling as a creator and how much development is needed in that area? How much of his bucket-getting in college came from simply shooting over the top of smaller defenders? After measuring at just 6-foot-8 at the Chicago Draft Combine, then eschewing the traditional pre-draft visits with interested teams that typically follow, there is undeniable curiosity among interested teams about Bailey's willingness to apply the needed focus and follow a prescribed path to reach his tantalizing ceiling.

During an ESPN interview in Chicago, when asked to pinpoint his top two strengths as a player and also reveal a weakness, Bailey offered a reply that has certainly stuck with some teams, saying: "I ain't got no weaknesses. And I got more than two strengths, Big Dog."

It's a quote that has fueled the perception that Bailey expects to be a heavily featured star — immediately — no matter where he is drafted. There is also a perception in some corners of the league that Bailey's approach has been coordinated by representation regarded as untraditional for a top prospect: Omar Cooper of the LifeStyle Sports Agency. Cooper is the father of former Atlanta Hawk Sharife Cooper and is not currently a certified NBA agent. Adie Von Gontard and Daniel Green are the official agents of record for Bailey, but the Atlanta-based Cooper has been described by NBA teams as the point person running Bailey's pre-draft process. Cooper has yet to respond to multiple attempts of outreach from The Stein Line.


Earlier this week we identified what is increasingly regarded in NBA front offices as a consensus top eight in this draft. Flagg and Harper are the locks at the No. 1 and No. 2. The precise order of the next six draftees is far from a lock, but Bailey continues to be mentioned with the other five projected to fill out the upper reaches of Wednesday's Round 1 board: Baylor's VJ Edgecombe, Texas' Tre Johnson, Oklahoma's Jeremiah Fears and the Duke duo of Maluach and Knueppel.

Could Bailey fall to the bottom of that top eight and thus land with the Nets?

We repeat: The question is increasingly being asked.

Seeing a highly regarded prospect declining visits with teams to such a degree is somewhat reminiscent of 2013, back when Nerlens Noel had torn his ACL but was still featured in various mock drafts as a legitimate candidate to be selected with the No. 1 overall pick. It's the opening scene of my book: At Noel's Green Room table inside Barclays Center, then-Kentucky coach John Calipari could be heard pleading to know why Noel slipped all the way to No. 6.

Noel couldn't work out for teams at the time and the rehab process in front of him surely dissuaded some teams. Yet I know for a fact that Charlotte and Phoenix both passed on Noel at No. 4 and 5, respectively, in large part due to the fact that they were not granted a face-to-face meeting … nor the opportunity to review Noel's medicals. The big difference there is that every NBA team does have access to Bailey's medical records from the combine in accordance with the league's most recent CBA.

The reality, though, is that the draft is just six days away and seemingly all of the Bailey-related discussion in circulation is focused anywhere but his considerable ability. The focus, like it or not, is on his travel schedule, his camp's pre-draft tactics and the like.
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