The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 3

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

There goes that dream....lol.

[One_and_Done]

Harty and Caruso would be expandable in a potential KD trade.

Also.....Chet for KD???

Guys like Caruso are never expendable. They aren't giving you Hart either.

This is the misconception though under the new CBA. The Thunder have some really tough choices to make by the 26-27 season as they'll face not only the Shai supermax increase (similar to Booker's increase),


But they'll also have multiple core extensions as soon as this summer ( I believe) and they'll have to create pretty significant cap reduction just to resign/ extend their core guys. So some big salaries will have to go, otherwise they'll be forced to break up their core.

Under the new CBA, it's just not sustainable anymore! Would you think it's more likely that they break up their core just to keep Hartenstein and Caruso? Or they move those two contracts in order to keep their young, exciting core together a bit longer??

Trading those two players for a rental of KD resets their books affording them over $54 million to pay their core players. It just makes sense logically from a business and financial standpoint.

Trading for 37 yr old KD, who expects a max extension and could get injured any time, is not a better use of money for the Thunder than cheap, productive role players who can easily be traded later.

[KdoubleDees23]

Did dude just say MAGAish and not get booted?

Not a peep from anyone running this ship should speak volumes to you!! Unwelcome and spit on, iis ok as long as the moral elite deem you less than..... or however politics work for some. Not a peep because it's a shared view.... "Here's what they think about you"..... ~Ice Cube

Get off your high horse hero and practice what you preach. Worry about basketball.

You stop bringing politics into it! Quit crying! I fought for this country and if Make America Great Again offends you because you don't like the dude, be better and get some anger management classes. You are what is wrong with this country and you are the reason for the divide. get some help and stick to basketball

I come here to get away from the news, and the crap that is going on, then to see you posting about political stuff. You may need a break from this page or a psychiatrist

GO SUNS

[KdoubleDees23]

[instagram][/instagram]

Get off your high horse hero and practice what you preach. Worry about basketball.

You are the main one one who constantly looses their ****. Slim tried yo come to your rescue. I gets it boss. Im gonna keep my mouth closed when I breath and not bother yall good folk, I knows how ya feels bout me and my kinds!! You are absolutely right and I'ze sorry.

You stay obsessed with that. I’ll worry about what the Suns are gonna get in a trade and how the new coach is gonna work out.

Anyway, hoping Suns finish this KD trade in the next 48 hours.

You are the one who brought politics into this! Now you are the one acting like a victim!!!!!! Always happens that way! Be better man.

[KdoubleDees23]

Even if Thunder rings Suns and offer Chet for KD, I dont want him. He's useless against playoff level defense.
He cant play physical against big men, he cant even push around small players. So you just put a quick small guy on him and watch him struggle to dribble... you put him down low and he bounces off post players.

he needs to see Giannis''s trainer and get on some programs and PEDS including roids ASAP. he is a liability come playoffs....

He is the same build as KD with better blocking defense. I would take Chet, Dort and a couple picks for KD in a heartbeat. KD is going to upset us in the next 10 days, because we are going to get a crap package for him. He is 37 years old, not a leader, and doesn't make anyone better.

[BobbieL]

With Jake Fischer and Goodwill both saying Miami I am trying to think about the potential packages.

1) Duncan Robinson. I think he is undoubtedly in the offer because of the money savings.

2) Wiggins OR Rozier. One of them has to be in the offerbto match salaries. Wiggins has 2 years left, Rozier is expiring.

Wiggins obviously the better player. The Heat will try to trade us Rozier.

3) Ware, Jovic, Jaquez. I think that we are asking for two of them and the Heat just wants to give us one..Jaquez. Ware is the prize. We need to get AT LEAST Jovic.

4) Picks. The Heat probably just wants to give us #20 BUT we need to get another FRP. And a couple 2nds as a sweeteners would be great.

5) Optional. The Heat have other young players with less potential that can be added in the final trade. Pelle is one of them.

Their first offer IMO:
Duncan Robinson, Rozier, Jaquez and #20.

Their current offer after negotiations IMO:
Duncan Robinson, Wiggins, Jovic, #20 and another FRP.

What money savings from Robinson? If you think the Suns will save $8m of cap space, you are wrong. Either he counts $10m in the trade and the Suns waive him or he counts $18m and the Suns pay him. But he can't count $18m in the trade and than waived for the $10m option.

I think Wiggins has to be included - even thought not an expiring - he is signed through 2027 and is a decent enough player next to Booker.

Duncan Robinson has a $19.9M expiring contract.

If we get him in the trade we can waive him before his contract is fully guaranteed at 8/7 and we will pay him "just" $9.9M.

So we would reduce our salary cap in $10M, more than enough to be out of the 2nd apron (next to those Micic and Cody Martin moves).

Thats not how it works anymore.

Robinson either counts 10m in the trade or he counts 18. He cannot be traded and count 18m but be released to save $8m
The NBA changed that loophole half dozen years ago.

[BobbieL]

Either Flex is trolling or he thinks a deal gets done today

The NBA will like the coverage of the trade today an off day until Game 7 on Sunday

Read on Twitter

[WuTang_OG]

I think the real prize is getting your 2027 pick back from Houston out of any other asset out there.

In 12 months you can re-evaluate and you can entertain Booker offers going into 26/27 season with freedom to do what you want

[WuTang_OG]

The Miami trade is just straight garbage, and only with Ware is it remotely decent but still not great in comparison to the multiple offers currently suggested. I'd say it's maybe the 4th best offer currently.

Ware will be a decent center but hasn't really shown a whole lot yet! Robinson and Rozier are best only as expiring value for cap reduction. Jovic has been mediocre as well as Jacquez. And I'd probably prefer Pelle Larsen and Keshad Johnson over either of Jokic and Jacquez.

Because I can honestly tell you all that we could just as easily find near identical archetype prospects from the late stages of the 2nd round to the undrafted ranges too. After so that you have a borderline late 1st in the 20th pick.

So essentially you'd be getting one decent young unproven center prospect, a couple big expiring contracts a mediocre lesser filler and a late 1st in a relatively shallow draft?? This would be a loss in relation to the other multiple offers on the table. And honestly shouldn't be accepted over any of the other trades noted so far.

The very best trades we must pursue are:

1- Toronto.
Quickly or Barrett with Poetl AND THE 9TH PICK!!!
** Trade the 9th pick along with Barrett and Poetl to Brooklyn for Johnson/ Claxton/ 19th/ 26th and 36th picks.

2- Houston.
Some package of Green/ J Smith Jr/ Landale/ Whitmore/ 10th pick.
** Trade J Green to one of Brooklyn, Chicago or Charlotte for other pieces and picks.

3- Minnesota.
Gobert/ Di Vincenzo/ Dillingham/ 17th pick AND 31st picks.
** Trade Dillingham to one of Washington (for 18th pick), Utah (for 21st pick), Atlanta (for 22nd pick) New Orleans (for the 23rd pick) Brooklyn (for the 26th and 38th picks). Then trade some combo of O'neale and Allen or O'neale and Di Vincenzo for other assets and picks. And keep the other player.

4- San Antonio
IF Vassell/ Barnes AND Sochan, then just accept the 14th pick and two 2nds? If no Sochan and Keldon Johnson, then the ATL 27' 1st is required!

5- Miami.
Only IF Ware is the centerpiece in the trade. And the package should be.....................
Ware/ Robinson/ Rozier/ Jovic or Jacquez/ 20th pick/ MIA 28' 1st.

If any of our thresholds aren't met in these trades by Monday (at the latest)!! Then we need to immediately jump to trading KD to:
( trade KD to a team he may not want to go to for the hest package FOR US)!!!

1- Toronto (wildcard rental team).
Some combination of Quickly or Barrett/ Poetl/ filler/ 9th pick/ TOR future 1st. Simply the very best pick we could get back for KD!!

2- Atlanta.
Combo of Daniels or Johnson/ Mann/ filler/ 13th pick/ 22nd pick/ future 1st.

3- New Orleans.
For Zion/ Olynyk/ 23rd pick or Murray/ Herb Jones/ 23rd pick?

4- Boston.
For Porzingis with other fillers (Boston) going to other teams for draft assets that come back to Phoenix??

4- OKC.
For Hartenstein/ Caruso/ Dieng/ 15th pick/ 24th pick/ Utah 26' 1st.
OR
Memphis.
Clarke/ Konchar/ Huff/ GG Jackson/ Pullin/ 16th and 48th picks/ PHX 26' 1st (swap back)/ MEM 28' 1st.

Good post. Shams hasn't mentioned toronto at all ... maybe Toronto is just being amplified in media for hype.

[Sunsdeuce]

Not a peep from anyone running this ship should speak volumes to you!! Unwelcome and spit on, iis ok as long as the moral elite deem you less than..... or however politics work for some. Not a peep because it's a shared view.... "Here's what they think about you"..... ~Ice Cube

Get off your high horse hero and practice what you preach. Worry about basketball.

You stop bringing politics into it! Quit crying! I fought for this country and if Make America Great Again offends you because you don't like the dude, be better and get some anger management classes. You are what is wrong with this country and you are the reason for the divide. get some help and stick to basketball

I come here to get away from the news, and the crap that is going on, then to see you posting about political stuff. You may need a break from this page or a psychiatrist

GO SUNS

Get some help. Seriously! Maybe take a vacation. Take a cruise from the Gulf of Mexico to Greenland. You two are ones who endlessly bring up politics and attacking me yet point fingers at everyone else. Screaming about “what’s wrong with this country!”

(FYI: I served 20 years of my life on Active duty Army up till 2022 and now my son serves and is currently deployed to Syria. We both served so people are allowed to have any political view they want and be allowed to protest. People protested me when I came home from Iraq BUT that’s why I served so they COULD protest. I served so people can be proud to be whoever they want to be. Maybe you served to oppress people, that’s on you. I haven’t said anything for pages and you two are OBSESSED and keep bringing up politics. wake up and smell what you're shoveling!)

I’m not gonna reply to anymore of your political obsessed posts! Infact, two are going on the ignore list. Best of luck to you two in life!

[starbosa10]

Either Flex is trolling or he thinks a deal gets done today

The NBA will like the coverage of the trade today an off day until Game 7 on Sunday

Read on Twitter

Probably just looking for attention, engagement farming with that blue check

[Sunsdeuce]

Either Flex is trolling or he thinks a deal gets done today

The NBA will like the coverage of the trade today an off day until Game 7 on Sunday

Read on Twitter

Probably just looking for attention, engagement farming with that blue check

To get a blue check mark is just paying for it now correct? The blue check mark use to mean something before.

[Saberestar]

What money savings from Robinson? If you think the Suns will save $8m of cap space, you are wrong. Either he counts $10m in the trade and the Suns waive him or he counts $18m and the Suns pay him. But he can't count $18m in the trade and than waived for the $10m option.

I think Wiggins has to be included - even thought not an expiring - he is signed through 2027 and is a decent enough player next to Booker.

Duncan Robinson has a $19.9M expiring contract.

If we get him in the trade we can waive him before his contract is fully guaranteed at 8/7 and we will pay him "just" $9.9M.

So we would reduce our salary cap in $10M, more than enough to be out of the 2nd apron (next to those Micic and Cody Martin moves).

Thats not how it works anymore.

Robinson either counts 10m in the trade or he counts 18. He cannot be traded and count 18m but be released to save $8m
The NBA changed that loophole half dozen years ago.

This info about Duncan's Robinson contract is everywhere.

The new CBA has forced several teams into tight financial corners, and the Miami Heat might have a panacea on its roster that looks like Duncan Robinson.

Robinson’s partially guaranteed contract is a rarity in today’s NBA. Of the $19.9 million Robinson is owed next season, just $9.8 million is guaranteed before June 29. That means that any team that waives Robinson before that date would get $10 million of instant savings.

That team could be the Heat or a team in dire financial trouble, like the Phoenix Suns or Boston Celtics.

Both the Suns and Celtics are set to be well above the second tax apron next season, which comes with a steep tax bill and roster-building limitations. After the Suns missed the playoffs and are facing a potential rebuild and Jayson Tatum’s Achilles tear that could lead to a gap year in Boston, getting under the second apron will be a priority for both franchises.

Robinson's partially guaranteed contract makes him valuable to teams in financial trouble.
That’s where Robinson comes in. The Suns and Celtics could target Robinson in a trade in an effort to get under the second tax apron. They would have to make other moves to create space, but saving $10 million would get them most of the way there.

https://allucanheat.com/heat-duncan-robinson-nba-most-coveted-trade-targets#:~:text=Robinson's%20partially%20guaranteed%20contract%20is,$10%20million%20of%20instant%20savings.

Barry Jackson:

Duncan Robinson's contract, combined with team options on 2 Suns players, give Phoenix a rare opportunity to climb not only below 2nd apron, but below the tax altogether. So there's a path for Heat - unless Suns ask for too much OR Heat doesn't want to give up Ware OR Spurs/Wolves outbid them OR Durant picks 1 of those teams and Suns cooperate. And yada yada

[BobbieL]

Duncan Robinson has a $19.9M expiring contract.

If we get him in the trade we can waive him before his contract is fully guaranteed at 8/7 and we will pay him "just" $9.9M.

So we would reduce our salary cap in $10M, more than enough to be out of the 2nd apron (next to those Micic and Cody Martin moves).

Thats not how it works anymore.

Robinson either counts 10m in the trade or he counts 18. He cannot be traded and count 18m but be released to save $8m
The NBA changed that loophole half dozen years ago.

This info about Duncan's Robinson contract is everywhere.

The new CBA has forced several teams into tight financial corners, and the Miami Heat might have a panacea on its roster that looks like Duncan Robinson.

Robinson’s partially guaranteed contract is a rarity in today’s NBA. Of the $19.9 million Robinson is owed next season, just $9.8 million is guaranteed before June 29. That means that any team that waives Robinson before that date would get $10 million of instant savings.

That team could be the Heat or a team in dire financial trouble, like the Phoenix Suns or Boston Celtics.

Both the Suns and Celtics are set to be well above the second tax apron next season, which comes with a steep tax bill and roster-building limitations. After the Suns missed the playoffs and are facing a potential rebuild and Jayson Tatum’s Achilles tear that could lead to a gap year in Boston, getting under the second apron will be a priority for both franchises.

Robinson's partially guaranteed contract makes him valuable to teams in financial trouble.
That’s where Robinson comes in. The Suns and Celtics could target Robinson in a trade in an effort to get under the second tax apron. They would have to make other moves to create space, but saving $10 million would get them most of the way there.

https://allucanheat.com/heat-duncan-robinson-nba-most-coveted-trade-targets#:~:text=Robinson's%20partially%20guaranteed%20contract%20is,$10%20million%20of%20instant%20savings.

Barry Jackson:

Duncan Robinson's contract, combined with team options on 2 Suns players, give Phoenix a rare opportunity to climb not only below 2nd apron, but below the tax altogether. So there's a path for Heat - unless Suns ask for too much OR Heat doesn't want to give up Ware OR Spurs/Wolves outbid them OR Durant picks 1 of those teams and Suns cooperate. And yada yada

thanks for the articles but I have also read the exact opposite
That this time of contract was changed many years ago to get around this type of loophole

Granted, it won't matter for the Suns - he is going to Houston or the Spurs

[WeekapaugGroove]

Duncan Robinson has a $19.9M expiring contract.

If we get him in the trade we can waive him before his contract is fully guaranteed at 8/7 and we will pay him "just" $9.9M.

So we would reduce our salary cap in $10M, more than enough to be out of the 2nd apron (next to those Micic and Cody Martin moves).

Thats not how it works anymore.

Robinson either counts 10m in the trade or he counts 18. He cannot be traded and count 18m but be released to save $8m
The NBA changed that loophole half dozen years ago.

This info about Duncan's Robinson contract is everywhere.

The new CBA has forced several teams into tight financial corners, and the Miami Heat might have a panacea on its roster that looks like Duncan Robinson.

Robinson’s partially guaranteed contract is a rarity in today’s NBA. Of the $19.9 million Robinson is owed next season, just $9.8 million is guaranteed before June 29. That means that any team that waives Robinson before that date would get $10 million of instant savings.

That team could be the Heat or a team in dire financial trouble, like the Phoenix Suns or Boston Celtics.

Both the Suns and Celtics are set to be well above the second tax apron next season, which comes with a steep tax bill and roster-building limitations. After the Suns missed the playoffs and are facing a potential rebuild and Jayson Tatum’s Achilles tear that could lead to a gap year in Boston, getting under the second apron will be a priority for both franchises.

Robinson's partially guaranteed contract makes him valuable to teams in financial trouble.
That’s where Robinson comes in. The Suns and Celtics could target Robinson in a trade in an effort to get under the second tax apron. They would have to make other moves to create space, but saving $10 million would get them most of the way there.

https://allucanheat.com/heat-duncan-robinson-nba-most-coveted-trade-targets#:~:text=Robinson's%20partially%20guaranteed%20contract%20is,$10%20million%20of%20instant%20savings.

Barry Jackson:

Duncan Robinson's contract, combined with team options on 2 Suns players, give Phoenix a rare opportunity to climb not only below 2nd apron, but below the tax altogether. So there's a path for Heat - unless Suns ask for too much OR Heat doesn't want to give up Ware OR Spurs/Wolves outbid them OR Durant picks 1 of those teams and Suns cooperate. And yada yada

I'm not sure those articles are accurate. I think Bobby is correct from my understanding of how non guaranteed money works in a trade. Basically if his whole number is used for matching in a trade then that ungaranteed amount gets guaranteed.

[starbosa10]

Either Flex is trolling or he thinks a deal gets done today

The NBA will like the coverage of the trade today an off day until Game 7 on Sunday

Read on Twitter

Probably just looking for attention, engagement farming with that blue check

To get a blue check mark is just paying for it now correct? The blue check mark use to mean something before.

Yup just have to pay for it lol means nothing

[dremill24]

Thats not how it works anymore.

Robinson either counts 10m in the trade or he counts 18. He cannot be traded and count 18m but be released to save $8m
The NBA changed that loophole half dozen years ago.

This info about Duncan's Robinson contract is everywhere.

The new CBA has forced several teams into tight financial corners, and the Miami Heat might have a panacea on its roster that looks like Duncan Robinson.

Robinson’s partially guaranteed contract is a rarity in today’s NBA. Of the $19.9 million Robinson is owed next season, just $9.8 million is guaranteed before June 29. That means that any team that waives Robinson before that date would get $10 million of instant savings.

That team could be the Heat or a team in dire financial trouble, like the Phoenix Suns or Boston Celtics.

Both the Suns and Celtics are set to be well above the second tax apron next season, which comes with a steep tax bill and roster-building limitations. After the Suns missed the playoffs and are facing a potential rebuild and Jayson Tatum’s Achilles tear that could lead to a gap year in Boston, getting under the second apron will be a priority for both franchises.

Robinson's partially guaranteed contract makes him valuable to teams in financial trouble.
That’s where Robinson comes in. The Suns and Celtics could target Robinson in a trade in an effort to get under the second tax apron. They would have to make other moves to create space, but saving $10 million would get them most of the way there.

https://allucanheat.com/heat-duncan-robinson-nba-most-coveted-trade-targets#:~:text=Robinson's%20partially%20guaranteed%20contract%20is,$10%20million%20of%20instant%20savings.

Barry Jackson:

Duncan Robinson's contract, combined with team options on 2 Suns players, give Phoenix a rare opportunity to climb not only below 2nd apron, but below the tax altogether. So there's a path for Heat - unless Suns ask for too much OR Heat doesn't want to give up Ware OR Spurs/Wolves outbid them OR Durant picks 1 of those teams and Suns cooperate. And yada yada

I'm not sure those articles are accurate. I think Bobby is correct from my understanding of how non guaranteed money works in a trade. Basically if his whole number is used for matching in a trade then that ungaranteed amount gets guaranteed.

Whatever number is guaranteed is the number used as outgoing salary for the Heat, but the entire number is used as incoming salary for another team.

So if the Suns wanted to be able to waive him after receiving in trade and only pay the $9.9mil, then he'd count as $9.9mil as outgoing salary for the Heat but as $19.9mil incoming for the Suns. With both teams having aprons to look out for, it would basically require the Heat to send out an additional ~$10mil to another team that could absorb that salary to get it done.

Other facilitating team(s) were going to need to get involved anyway, as the Suns are not allowed to take on extra salary and the Heat, while allowed at the moment to add salary, would hard cap themselves at the first apron by doing so. The Robinson thing just changes the calculus on how much extra money they should send out.

[Sunsdeuce]

We are making national headlines for being a poorly run organization

https://www.rawchili.com/nba/112101/

“Embarrassing Kevin Durant blunder has Suns front office looking as clueless as ever“

We went from Sarver to Sarver. I had no idea this was even possible.

[Synyster9]

He often shows his colors, he cant help it. He is a little duce-ey.

MAGA sucks and Trumpanzees are morons....and are ruining this country/world.

Also learn to spell, its "Douche". Use it correctly if you're gonna say it.

Not a coincidence that the lack of education has led to that clown being elected.

Also, you're right but wrong. Not Douche.... supposed to be DEUCE- EY!! ya know, like taking a #2.... ****!! I fat fingered it!! What an uncultured swine I must be!

Here I was thinking you were making a play on words with his username. I know I lurk here more than I post, but I gave it a little audible chuckle. Love me a good play on words, lol.

[BobbieL]

We are making national headlines for being a poorly run organization

https://www.rawchili.com/nba/112101/

“Embarrassing Kevin Durant blunder has Suns front office looking as clueless as ever“

We went from Sarver to Sarver. I had no idea this was even possible.

Ishbia deserves the criticism. He came in and within 24 hours made a trade that changed the trajectory of the franchise - and not for the better. But he couldn't stop there - Beal and than the Ayton trade. He has lost them all -- just terrible move.

So now MattyIsh has to do the one thing he doesn't want to do - admit failure, take a step back and look to rebuild basically. Every day since the Durant trade, the team has never been better then before the trade. Yes, in a seven games series I think the team with Bridges, Saric and Cam Johnson beat the team with Durant and the player they got from the Thunder - forget his name as he didn't make it.