Tom Thibodeau fired pt 2

[Barcs]

Ah yes, Brunson is everything wrong with the Knicks. Brought you by the guy who complained when people gave Randle sh*t.

I think they are just saying that Brunson could be a little bit better, not that he's the problem.

No. They're saying he's selfish. Which is nonsense.

When the pressure is on, he usually isos. That's not anything crazy or unknown. I don't think he's selfish per se, he's just the best ISO player on the team, so often the team is successful when he does it and that creates pressure on him at the end of games to be THE guy and take those shots.

I do think he needs to pass just a little bit more down the stretch. It seemed like he was doing it during season, but once the playoffs started he was playing more hero ball. He did get slightly more assists though, but overall I think he can be a 10+ assist per game type of guy and I think that's what the team needs.

[Jalen Bluntson]

I think they are just saying that Brunson could be a little bit better, not that he's the problem.

No. They're saying he's selfish. Which is nonsense.

When the pressure is on, he usually isos. That's not anything crazy or unknown. I don't think he's selfish per se, he's just the best ISO player on the team, so often the team is successful when he does it and that creates pressure on him at the end of games to be THE guy and take those shots.

I do think he needs to pass just a little bit more. It seemed like he was doing it during season, but once the playoffs started he was playing more hero ball.

He was running Thibs offense. Players stand around and wait for a pass most of the time. Nothing more. Nothing less.

[prophet_of_rage]

I think they are just saying that Brunson could be a little bit better, not that he's the problem.

No. They're saying he's selfish. Which is nonsense.

When the pressure is on, he usually isos. That's not anything crazy or unknown. I don't think he's selfish per se, he's just the best ISO player on the team, so often the team is successful when he does it and that creates pressure on him at the end of games to be THE guy and take those shots.

I do think he needs to pass just a little bit more down the stretch. It seemed like he was doing it during season, but once the playoffs started he was playing more hero ball. He did get slightly more assists though, but overall I think he can be a 10+ assist per game type of guy and I think that's what the team needs.

He needs to pass more at the beginning not down the stretch. The 4th quarter is yours. Get the other guys going for the first three. They will give it back. You will unlock OG and Mikal that way.

When they have nothing they will give it back to him to bring it home.

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[NiceLikeChrist]

just realized this OKC roster is probably the only type of roster thibs could win a chip with. he would be in his comfort zone with an iso minded PG, playmaker defending bigs and a bunch of wing defenders

[NoStatsGuy]

No. They're saying he's selfish. Which is nonsense.

When the pressure is on, he usually isos. That's not anything crazy or unknown. I don't think he's selfish per se, he's just the best ISO player on the team, so often the team is successful when he does it and that creates pressure on him at the end of games to be THE guy and take those shots.

I do think he needs to pass just a little bit more down the stretch. It seemed like he was doing it during season, but once the playoffs started he was playing more hero ball. He did get slightly more assists though, but overall I think he can be a 10+ assist per game type of guy and I think that's what the team needs.

He needs to pass more at the beginning not down the stretch. The 4th quarter is yours. Get the other guys going for the first three. They will give it back. You will unlock OG and Mikal that way.

When they have nothing they will give it back to him to bring it home.

Sent from my SM-S938W using RealGM mobile app

tbf i feel like he did that almost all season. that why he has exceptional high 4th quarter scoring #s.

in SOME games he came out firing because he felt like he needed to set the tone or the team needs him to come out strong and make sure not to fall behind like we did in many 1st quarters. i agree with you 100% thats the way he should approach the game. be the closer and the guy when we really need a bucket. but too many times brunson distributes and we are down 10+ in the first. his FGAs went down this year. brunson is the guy that actually sacrificed. he could win a scorring title if he wanted to.

and im actually not sure if its on brunson at this point. he makes close to 60 passes a game, which is 9th in the league. He is close to everybody above him besides haliburton and jokic. they are outliers with 70+ passes per game. He is 5th in passes recieved, which indicates at somewhat okayish ball movement (tho that stat is skewed with handover, etc.), he has a higher secondary assist rate than players like lebron, jokic or trae young.

where he ranks REALLY low is potential assists and assist to pass% ratio. Both these stats indicate, that people just dont convert his assists and/or are not in position to score. Not being in position to score can be because different things. either its bad passes by brunson or the players not moving off ball enough for example. I think we know its the latter for the most part.

Brunson is not a pass first guy but he tried this year, especially in the beginning of the year. Our offense and the rest of the team did not help him reach high assists numbers. Its a bit of a dilemma hes in. And i hope following the approach you mentioned with a proper offensive system he can proof that hes a good point guard and not just a scorer. because i believe he indeed is a good point guard.

[prophet_of_rage]

When the pressure is on, he usually isos. That's not anything crazy or unknown. I don't think he's selfish per se, he's just the best ISO player on the team, so often the team is successful when he does it and that creates pressure on him at the end of games to be THE guy and take those shots.

I do think he needs to pass just a little bit more down the stretch. It seemed like he was doing it during season, but once the playoffs started he was playing more hero ball. He did get slightly more assists though, but overall I think he can be a 10+ assist per game type of guy and I think that's what the team needs.

He needs to pass more at the beginning not down the stretch. The 4th quarter is yours. Get the other guys going for the first three. They will give it back. You will unlock OG and Mikal that way.

When they have nothing they will give it back to him to bring it home.

Sent from my SM-S938W using RealGM mobile app

tbf i feel like he did that almost all season. that why he has exceptional high 4th quarter scoring #s.

in SOME games he came out firing because he felt like he needed to set the tone or the team needs him to come out strong and make sure not to fall behind like we did in many 1st quarters. i agree with you 100% thats the way he should approach the game. be the closer and the guy when we really need a bucket. but too many times brunson distributes and we are down 10+ in the first. his FGAs went down this year. brunson is the guy that actually sacrificed. he could win a scorring title if he wanted to.

and im actually not sure if its on brunson at this point. he makes close to 60 passes a game, which is 9th in the league. He is close to everybody above him besides haliburton and jokic. they are outliers with 70+ passes per game. He is 5th in passes recieved, which indicates at somewhat okayish ball movement (tho that stat is skewed with handover, etc.), he has a higher secondary assist rate than players like lebron, jokic or trae young.

where he ranks REALLY low is potential assists and assist to pass% ratio. Both these stats indicate, that people just dont convert his assists and/or are not in position to score. Not being in position to score can be because different things. either its bad passes by brunson or the players not moving off ball enough for example. I think we know its the latter for the most part.

Brunson is not a pass first guy but he tried this year, especially in the beginning of the year. Our offense and the rest of the team did not help him reach high assists numbers. Its a bit of a dilemma hes in. And i hope following the approach you mentioned with a proper offensive system he can proof that hes a good point guard and not just a scorer. because i believe he indeed is a good point guard.

It will be interesting to see because his numbers come with high usage. They couldn't play him in fiba because of his style and he didn't have to run the point in Dallas. We haven't seen Jalen in an NBA structured system yet. In a read snd react he called his own number and made OG/Mikal somewhat neutered. And then he became stoppable in the playoffs.

Let's see how he responds to a new coach because you know he wanted Thibs to stay.

Sent from my SM-S938W using RealGM mobile app

[NoStatsGuy]

He needs to pass more at the beginning not down the stretch. The 4th quarter is yours. Get the other guys going for the first three. They will give it back. You will unlock OG and Mikal that way.

When they have nothing they will give it back to him to bring it home.

Sent from my SM-S938W using RealGM mobile app

tbf i feel like he did that almost all season. that why he has exceptional high 4th quarter scoring #s.

in SOME games he came out firing because he felt like he needed to set the tone or the team needs him to come out strong and make sure not to fall behind like we did in many 1st quarters. i agree with you 100% thats the way he should approach the game. be the closer and the guy when we really need a bucket. but too many times brunson distributes and we are down 10+ in the first. his FGAs went down this year. brunson is the guy that actually sacrificed. he could win a scorring title if he wanted to.

and im actually not sure if its on brunson at this point. he makes close to 60 passes a game, which is 9th in the league. He is close to everybody above him besides haliburton and jokic. they are outliers with 70+ passes per game. He is 5th in passes recieved, which indicates at somewhat okayish ball movement (tho that stat is skewed with handover, etc.), he has a higher secondary assist rate than players like lebron, jokic or trae young.

where he ranks REALLY low is potential assists and assist to pass% ratio. Both these stats indicate, that people just dont convert his assists and/or are not in position to score. Not being in position to score can be because different things. either its bad passes by brunson or the players not moving off ball enough for example. I think we know its the latter for the most part.

Brunson is not a pass first guy but he tried this year, especially in the beginning of the year. Our offense and the rest of the team did not help him reach high assists numbers. Its a bit of a dilemma hes in. And i hope following the approach you mentioned with a proper offensive system he can proof that hes a good point guard and not just a scorer. because i believe he indeed is a good point guard.

It will be interesting to see because his numbers come with high usage. They couldn't play him in fiba because of his style and he didn't have to run the point in Dallas. We haven't seen Jalen in an NBA structured system yet. In a read snd react he called his own number and made OG/Mikal somewhat neutered. And then he became stoppable in the playoffs.

Let's see how he responds to a new coach because you know he wanted Thibs to stay.

Sent from my SM-S938W using RealGM mobile app

definitley very excited to see what our offense will look like.

regarding the usage its pretty much a myth. in the regular season brunson had a 28.9 usage while trae and jokic were 28.5. its not like brunson dribbles the clock out every time. sga had a 33 which is a much higher rate. but noone complains about him being selfish. so yea its all narratives and barbershop talk at this point.

brunson isnt even in the top 20 in terms of usage rate for the regular season.

//edit

nvm i stand corrected.. he is exactly 20th for the regular season. and considering his league ranking as a player (which most people likely have him in the 10-15 range), is a fair spot for him i think.

[prophet_of_rage]

tbf i feel like he did that almost all season. that why he has exceptional high 4th quarter scoring #s.

in SOME games he came out firing because he felt like he needed to set the tone or the team needs him to come out strong and make sure not to fall behind like we did in many 1st quarters. i agree with you 100% thats the way he should approach the game. be the closer and the guy when we really need a bucket. but too many times brunson distributes and we are down 10+ in the first. his FGAs went down this year. brunson is the guy that actually sacrificed. he could win a scorring title if he wanted to.

and im actually not sure if its on brunson at this point. he makes close to 60 passes a game, which is 9th in the league. He is close to everybody above him besides haliburton and jokic. they are outliers with 70+ passes per game. He is 5th in passes recieved, which indicates at somewhat okayish ball movement (tho that stat is skewed with handover, etc.), he has a higher secondary assist rate than players like lebron, jokic or trae young.

where he ranks REALLY low is potential assists and assist to pass% ratio. Both these stats indicate, that people just dont convert his assists and/or are not in position to score. Not being in position to score can be because different things. either its bad passes by brunson or the players not moving off ball enough for example. I think we know its the latter for the most part.

Brunson is not a pass first guy but he tried this year, especially in the beginning of the year. Our offense and the rest of the team did not help him reach high assists numbers. Its a bit of a dilemma hes in. And i hope following the approach you mentioned with a proper offensive system he can proof that hes a good point guard and not just a scorer. because i believe he indeed is a good point guard.

It will be interesting to see because his numbers come with high usage. They couldn't play him in fiba because of his style and he didn't have to run the point in Dallas. We haven't seen Jalen in an NBA structured system yet. In a read snd react he called his own number and made OG/Mikal somewhat neutered. And then he became stoppable in the playoffs.

Let's see how he responds to a new coach because you know he wanted Thibs to stay.

Sent from my SM-S938W using RealGM mobile app

definitley very excited to see what our offense will look like.

regarding the usage its pretty much a myth. in the regular season brunson had a 28.9 usage while trae and jokic were 28.5. its not like brunson dribbles the clock out every time. sga had a 33 which is a much higher rate. but noone complains about him being selfish. so yea its all narratives and barbershop talk at this point.

brunson isnt even in the top 20 in terms of usage rate for the regular season.

//edit

nvm i stand corrected.. he is exactly 20th for the regular season. and considering his league ranking as a player (which most people likely have him in the 10-15 range), is a fair spot for him i think.

It isn't myth. It's stylistic. Shai, Trae are in heliocentric offences with running athletes, lob catching bigs. Brinson's starters all need to bounce the ball to get into their stuff. There's a reason we got an offensive explosion out of OG with Brunson out.

You can't play the Knicks starters the same way you can thebHawks or Thunder or Pacers or Nuggets. That's the feel stuff that won't show in numbers.

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[Jalen Bluntson]

It will be interesting to see because his numbers come with high usage. They couldn't play him in fiba because of his style and he didn't have to run the point in Dallas. We haven't seen Jalen in an NBA structured system yet. In a read snd react he called his own number and made OG/Mikal somewhat neutered. And then he became stoppable in the playoffs.

Let's see how he responds to a new coach because you know he wanted Thibs to stay.

Sent from my SM-S938W using RealGM mobile app

definitley very excited to see what our offense will look like.

regarding the usage its pretty much a myth. in the regular season brunson had a 28.9 usage while trae and jokic were 28.5. its not like brunson dribbles the clock out every time. sga had a 33 which is a much higher rate. but noone complains about him being selfish. so yea its all narratives and barbershop talk at this point.

brunson isnt even in the top 20 in terms of usage rate for the regular season.

//edit

nvm i stand corrected.. he is exactly 20th for the regular season. and considering his league ranking as a player (which most people likely have him in the 10-15 range), is a fair spot for him i think.

It isn't myth. It's stylistic. Shai, Trae are in heliocentric offences with running athletes, lob catching bigs. Brinson's starters all need to bounce the ball to get into their stuff. There's a reason we got an offensive explosion out of OG with Brunson out.

You can't play the Knicks starters the same way you can thebHawks or Thunder or Pacers or Nuggets. That's the feel stuff that won't show in numbers.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

Just move on. He's not selfish. He ran Thibs offense. Which sucked.

[NoStatsGuy]

It will be interesting to see because his numbers come with high usage. They couldn't play him in fiba because of his style and he didn't have to run the point in Dallas. We haven't seen Jalen in an NBA structured system yet. In a read snd react he called his own number and made OG/Mikal somewhat neutered. And then he became stoppable in the playoffs.

Let's see how he responds to a new coach because you know he wanted Thibs to stay.

Sent from my SM-S938W using RealGM mobile app

definitley very excited to see what our offense will look like.

regarding the usage its pretty much a myth. in the regular season brunson had a 28.9 usage while trae and jokic were 28.5. its not like brunson dribbles the clock out every time. sga had a 33 which is a much higher rate. but noone complains about him being selfish. so yea its all narratives and barbershop talk at this point.

brunson isnt even in the top 20 in terms of usage rate for the regular season.

//edit

nvm i stand corrected.. he is exactly 20th for the regular season. and considering his league ranking as a player (which most people likely have him in the 10-15 range), is a fair spot for him i think.

It isn't myth. It's stylistic. Shai, Trae are in heliocentric offences with running athletes, lob catching bigs. Brinson's starters all need to bounce the ball to get into their stuff. There's a reason we got an offensive explosion out of OG with Brunson out.

You can't play the Knicks starters the same way you can thebHawks or Thunder or Pacers or Nuggets. That's the feel stuff that won't show in numbers.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

i dont know.. now your argument doesnt make much sense anymore.

i thought his numbers come with high usage. now i show you his usage isnt actually high in the regular season, compared to the other stars. shai has less assists, with higher usage and teammates that dont need to bounce the ball. It just doesnt add up to me.

but hey, we can move on its all in the past anyways.

i dont think brunson is selfish at all. he really tried to get everybody involved, he sacrificed his shots and i think he has a pretty good assist average for the kind of team we have and the kind of offense we ran.

[3toheadmelo]

Brunson is a scoring PG. Hes bound to be a bit selfish. I don’t hold it against him though. For his whole career he’s been used to playing off a playmaker (Luka and Randle). This was his first year without one. I’m not sure it’ll be any different next season but maybe our new coach can figure it out. But again, I’m not holding it against him and I love him to death.

[prophet_of_rage]

definitley very excited to see what our offense will look like.

regarding the usage its pretty much a myth. in the regular season brunson had a 28.9 usage while trae and jokic were 28.5. its not like brunson dribbles the clock out every time. sga had a 33 which is a much higher rate. but noone complains about him being selfish. so yea its all narratives and barbershop talk at this point.

brunson isnt even in the top 20 in terms of usage rate for the regular season.

//edit

nvm i stand corrected.. he is exactly 20th for the regular season. and considering his league ranking as a player (which most people likely have him in the 10-15 range), is a fair spot for him i think.

It isn't myth. It's stylistic. Shai, Trae are in heliocentric offences with running athletes, lob catching bigs. Brinson's starters all need to bounce the ball to get into their stuff. There's a reason we got an offensive explosion out of OG with Brunson out.

You can't play the Knicks starters the same way you can thebHawks or Thunder or Pacers or Nuggets. That's the feel stuff that won't show in numbers.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

i dont know.. now your argument doesnt make much sense anymore.

i thought his numbers come with high usage. now i show you his usage isnt actually high in the regular season, compared to the other stars. shai has less assists, with higher usage and teammates that dont need to bounce the ball. It just doesnt add up to me.

but hey, we can move on its all in the past anyways.

i dont think brunson is selfish at all. he really tried to get everybody involved, he sacrificed his shots and i think he has a pretty good assist average for the kind of team we have and the kind of offense we ran.

It's easy. OKC gets a lot of easy transition baskets in between times. The Knicks don't really run. He may have a usage in line with top stars. But he shouldn't have is my point. Not with who is around him. The dribble up against pressure get a screen get another and then get to it isn't going to succeed long term. He needs to get off of it faster and get it back late in the clock.

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[NoStatsGuy]

It isn't myth. It's stylistic. Shai, Trae are in heliocentric offences with running athletes, lob catching bigs. Brinson's starters all need to bounce the ball to get into their stuff. There's a reason we got an offensive explosion out of OG with Brunson out.

You can't play the Knicks starters the same way you can thebHawks or Thunder or Pacers or Nuggets. That's the feel stuff that won't show in numbers.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

i dont know.. now your argument doesnt make much sense anymore.

i thought his numbers come with high usage. now i show you his usage isnt actually high in the regular season, compared to the other stars. shai has less assists, with higher usage and teammates that dont need to bounce the ball. It just doesnt add up to me.

but hey, we can move on its all in the past anyways.

i dont think brunson is selfish at all. he really tried to get everybody involved, he sacrificed his shots and i think he has a pretty good assist average for the kind of team we have and the kind of offense we ran.

It's easy. OKC gets a lot of easy transition baskets in between times. The Knicks don't really run. He may have a usage in line with top stars. But he shouldn't have is my point. Not with who is around him. The dribble up against pressure get a screen get another and then get to it isn't going to succeed long term. He needs to get off of it faster and get it back late in the clock.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

ah gotcha. yea, thats a fair point.

But its equally fair to say, he did very good in the assists category. ranked 11th... considering all the "bad" circumstances he had to deal with. thibs, teammates, etc.

[prophet_of_rage]

i dont know.. now your argument doesnt make much sense anymore.

i thought his numbers come with high usage. now i show you his usage isnt actually high in the regular season, compared to the other stars. shai has less assists, with higher usage and teammates that dont need to bounce the ball. It just doesnt add up to me.

but hey, we can move on its all in the past anyways.

i dont think brunson is selfish at all. he really tried to get everybody involved, he sacrificed his shots and i think he has a pretty good assist average for the kind of team we have and the kind of offense we ran.

It's easy. OKC gets a lot of easy transition baskets in between times. The Knicks don't really run. He may have a usage in line with top stars. But he shouldn't have is my point. Not with who is around him. The dribble up against pressure get a screen get another and then get to it isn't going to succeed long term. He needs to get off of it faster and get it back late in the clock.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

ah gotcha. yea, thats a fair point.

But its equally fair to say, he did very good in the assists category. ranked 11th... considering all the "bad" circumstances he had to deal with. thibs, teammates, etc.

Assists don't equate to ball movement. They can be like Nash who moved the ball around a lot or.like Chris Paul who holds it and then gives you the grenade to finish.

I would prefer lower assists and shots from Brunson to get more touches for the other four unless we play a loy faster.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

[NoStatsGuy]

It's easy. OKC gets a lot of easy transition baskets in between times. The Knicks don't really run. He may have a usage in line with top stars. But he shouldn't have is my point. Not with who is around him. The dribble up against pressure get a screen get another and then get to it isn't going to succeed long term. He needs to get off of it faster and get it back late in the clock.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

ah gotcha. yea, thats a fair point.

But its equally fair to say, he did very good in the assists category. ranked 11th... considering all the "bad" circumstances he had to deal with. thibs, teammates, etc.

Assists don't equate to ball movement. They can be like Nash who moved the ball around a lot or.like Chris Paul who holds it and then gives you the grenade to finish.

I would prefer lower assists and shots from Brunson to get more touches for the other four unless we play a loy faster.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

Kat and OG are regularly hiding and not demanding the ball. lets hope that changes. its not a brunson issue as much as you wanna make it one

he has shown time and time again that he sits back early and lets the others work. more often than not they dont get it done. it is what it is

besides all starters had right around their carrer highs or shot more than their career average. It really is not like brunson denies them chances. the fit on offense just seemed very terrible.

[prophet_of_rage]

ah gotcha. yea, thats a fair point.

But its equally fair to say, he did very good in the assists category. ranked 11th... considering all the "bad" circumstances he had to deal with. thibs, teammates, etc.

Assists don't equate to ball movement. They can be like Nash who moved the ball around a lot or.like Chris Paul who holds it and then gives you the grenade to finish.

I would prefer lower assists and shots from Brunson to get more touches for the other four unless we play a loy faster.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

Kat and OG are regularly hiding and not demanding the ball. lets hope that changes. its not a brunson issue as much as you wanna make it one

he has shown time and time again that he sits back early and lets the others work. more often than not they dont get it done. it is what it is

besides all starters had right around their carrer highs or shot more than their career average. It really is not like brunson denies them chances. the fit on offense just seemed very terrible.

We'll disagree on that because what you call hiding I see as wanting the ball in certain spots. All three were more offensively.engaged with the change in playstyle once Brunson got hurt. Which also shows you it was Brunson's playsttle moreso than Thibs' system. That is one of the things that needs to be improved for the Knicks to go next level. Again Jalen's first time on the ball and geyting him off it earlier doesn't fox everything but it starts a more varied offence. Then you have the whole defensive side. Good luck, new coach.

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[MrDollarBills]

Brunson isn't a selfish player....a guy who took a paycut to get more talent in here isn't selfish in my opinion.

Bluntson said it best:

Brunson was running Tom's "read and react" offense which led to a lot of ISOs, contested shots and no ball movement.

Nothing more, nothing less.

[god shammgod]

Brunson isn't a selfish player....a guy who took a paycut to get more talent in here isn't selfish in my opinion.

Bluntson said it best:

Brunson was running Tom's "read and react" offense which led to a lot of ISOs, contested shots and no ball movement.

Nothing more, nothing less.

I have no problem with how Brunson plays.

But if it’s all Thibs like you say, why is it that we didn’t play that way when he was out for a month ?

[prophet_of_rage]

Brunson isn't a selfish player....a guy who took a paycut to get more talent in here isn't selfish in my opinion.

Bluntson said it best:

Brunson was running Tom's "read and react" offense which led to a lot of ISOs, contested shots and no ball movement.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Those isos didn't happen as often when he was out. So his reads are largely self-interested. No real.difference from Kobe, Michael or Shai. Thiae guys won when they let others have early rouches, though.

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[MrDollarBills]

Brunson isn't a selfish player....a guy who took a paycut to get more talent in here isn't selfish in my opinion.

Bluntson said it best:

Brunson was running Tom's "read and react" offense which led to a lot of ISOs, contested shots and no ball movement.

Nothing more, nothing less.

I have no problem with how Brunson plays.

But if it’s all Thibs like you say, why is it that we didn’t play that way when he was out for a month ?

I don't either. If I had one criticism, it would be that he should focus on creating for the others and getting them going early. Now, if guys don't have it, then he needs to take over.

I can't answer your question honestly because i don't know. It's a good one. I don't know why we were sharing the ball and OG/Mikal looked golden, and then when he came back everything became stagnant.

Is that Jalen coming back and doing whatever he wants, or was that by design because Tom wants the ball in his hands all the time? I lean towards the latter. Brunson doesn't strike me as the type to go awol on the coach.