Bos/Orl Trade

[Celts17Pride]

Porzingis to Orlando for M Wagner, Carter, Howard and #25 pick.

Magic - would have a center that can shoot to go with Suggs, F Wagner, Bane, and Banchero.

Celtics - would have a long term cheap center in Carter, the #25 pick and after cutting M Wagner, $14.3 in reduced salary.

Seems like a logical deal for both teams with the exception of the Celtics raising the Magic's ceiling with KP given they are the competition.

[BleedGreen1989]

Boston should be giving the pick here, not receiving it.

[hugepatsfan]

If Wagner is used in the deal for ORL's salary matching, I don't think he can be cut for savings. Maybe if the deal is done in 24-25 league year though?

In either case, I think WCJ/Porzingis is fair as a straight swap. Both injury prone. Porzingis way better but WCJ younger and signed long term. I think ORL could use the better player for 1 year and then long term savings for when Paolo extension kicks in, whereas BOS could use a longer term solution even though lesser player because Tatum is out for this year. Issue is Wagner/#25 is something ORL is going to value significantly. They won't go for that.

BOS gives: Porzingis
BOS gets: WCJ

ORL gives: WCJ, Isaac, Howard
ORL gets: Porzingis, sweetener

3rd/4th teams give: sweeteners
3rd/4th teams get: Isaac, Howard into MLE/TPEs

I think that's the deal that makes sense. BOS/3rd/4th teams have to come up with enough sweeteners to make the deal worth it for ORL to give up Isaac. Not sure there's a match out there. I like Isaac more than most though so I could see SAC or ATL interested.

[Godaddycurse]

If Wagner is used in the deal for ORL's salary matching, I don't think he can be cut for savings. Maybe if the deal is done in 24-25 league year though?

In either case, I think WCJ/Porzingis is fair as a straight swap. Both injury prone. Porzingis way better but WCJ younger and signed long term. I think ORL could use the better player for 1 year and then long term savings for when Paolo extension kicks in, whereas BOS could use a longer term solution even though lesser player because Tatum is out for this year. Issue is Wagner/#25 is something ORL is going to value significantly. They won't go for that.

BOS gives: Porzingis
BOS gets: WCJ

ORL gives: WCJ, Isaac, Howard
ORL gets: Porzingis, sweetener

3rd/4th teams give: sweeteners
3rd/4th teams get: Isaac, Howard into MLE/TPEs

I think that's the deal that makes sense. BOS/3rd/4th teams have to come up with enough sweeteners to make the deal worth it for ORL to give up Isaac. Not sure there's a match out there. I like Isaac more than most though so I could see SAC or ATL interested.

Wagner's TO has to be accepted to be used in a trade

[hugepatsfan]

If Wagner is used in the deal for ORL's salary matching, I don't think he can be cut for savings. Maybe if the deal is done in 24-25 league year though?

In either case, I think WCJ/Porzingis is fair as a straight swap. Both injury prone. Porzingis way better but WCJ younger and signed long term. I think ORL could use the better player for 1 year and then long term savings for when Paolo extension kicks in, whereas BOS could use a longer term solution even though lesser player because Tatum is out for this year. Issue is Wagner/#25 is something ORL is going to value significantly. They won't go for that.

BOS gives: Porzingis
BOS gets: WCJ

ORL gives: WCJ, Isaac, Howard
ORL gets: Porzingis, sweetener

3rd/4th teams give: sweeteners
3rd/4th teams get: Isaac, Howard into MLE/TPEs

I think that's the deal that makes sense. BOS/3rd/4th teams have to come up with enough sweeteners to make the deal worth it for ORL to give up Isaac. Not sure there's a match out there. I like Isaac more than most though so I could see SAC or ATL interested.

Wagner's TO has to be accepted to be used in a trade

Gotcha. Moot point anyway since I don't think ORL would want to use him here. Part of the idea of getting Porzingis for WCJ would be the long term savings associated with it which means they'd probably want to keep Wagner/Goga long term, plus the brother connection, plus Wagner instead of Isaac means more salary in than out so hard cap.

I think WCJ/Isaac/Howard for Porzingis/sweetener is the deal to be made if good enough sweetener can be found. Improves ORL upside this year and really cleans up that cap sheet for when Paolo extends.

[brackdan70]

It adds a bunch of future salary for the Celtics.
Carter is not that cheap imo for what he gives you.
I think it’s workable if there has already been a Holiday trade that sheds his future salary. Otherwise this adds to the Celtics repeater tax woes. Also what are the Cs doing with Howard? If they keep him that’s a bunch more salary.
I think the value is ok.
I’d rather keep Porzingis and then offer him a contract like Carter’s 2/40 for 26/27 and 27/28.

[Texas Chuck]

several posters have done versions of this. Disagreements have been:

Celtics fans seem to think KP is more valuable than Carter
some posters think Isaac has positive value to be reaped, others don't.

If there is still interest those problems are easily solved as both Boston and Orlando have low level picks this year to sweeten the deal, so just assume your team is the one not paying/getting incentive.

[cl2117]

Is Howard just a straight bust or is there some 2nd draft potential there? I liked his physical profile coming out of college but every time I've seen him play I felt like he played small/soft and his counting stats are putrid.

I was super keen on WCJ the last couple years because of the really nice declining contract he was on. I'm still interested in a KP/WCJ swap but now a little worried about WCJ's down shooting year with the extension he signed. I wouldn't expect Orlando to pay for the swap provided trading Wagner and Howard could viably be traded into exceptions without having to add sweetene, nor would I expect Stevens to pay to turn KP into WCJ unless there is some redeemable value in Howard I'm missing.

[hugepatsfan]

It adds a bunch of future salary for the Celtics.
Carter is not that cheap imo for what he gives you.
I think it’s workable if there has already been a Holiday trade that sheds his future salary. Otherwise this adds to the Celtics repeater tax woes. Also what are the Cs doing with Howard? If they keep him that’s a bunch more salary.
I think the value is ok.
I’d rather keep Porzingis and then offer him a contract like Carter’s 2/40 for 26/27 and 27/28.

Yes that's an important point. BOS can't handle Carter's long term salary unless an accommodating move is made with Jrue. Granted, they could make that move next year. A Porzingis/WCJ swap (obviously other pieces needed, but saying if that's the net in/out for BOS) takes care of most of their payroll work this year (Hauser dump needed to get under 2nd apron after that). They could do those moves, leave it as-is with Jrue and sort it out next year. BUT, WCJ probably isn't good enough to carry that risk. Jrue could actually decline next year the way some posters for whatever reason say he already has or he could get hurt, in which case they'd be in a tough spot needing to move him to fit WCJ. Just too risky to lock into that without a Jrue deal already lined up.

I agree they'd rather Porzingis re-sign than WCJ. If they did deal Jrue, they'd probably try to work out that type of deal with Porzingis before trading him for WCJ.

[psman2]

Is Howard just a straight bust or is there some 2nd draft potential there? I liked his physical profile coming out of college but every time I've seen him play I felt like he played small/soft and his counting stats are putrid.

I was super keen on WCJ the last couple years because of the really nice declining contract he was on. I'm still interested in a KP/WCJ swap but now a little worried about WCJ's down shooting year with the extension he signed. I wouldn't expect Orlando to pay for the swap provided trading Wagner and Howard could viably be traded into exceptions without having to add sweetene, nor would I expect Stevens to pay to turn KP into WCJ unless there is some redeemable value in Howard I'm missing.

I think a team might sent out matching salary and a very late 2nd for Howard. But more than likely he is a negative, especially if the goal is to flip him into someone cap space, that would likely cost 2nd(s) and cash, similar to Zaire Williams last season and he actually showed quite a bit more on the court than Howard has.

Jonathan Isaac is tricky if you want pure cap space. I think the Nets and Atlanta's TPE are the only places that can do it. Nets will charge for sure, Atlanta might take him for free, doubt they give any sweetener though. Lots of other teams could come into play with less salary scenarios coming back in a Isaac trade but that will likely only be some 3-5 million in savings and at most a 2nd as a sweetener.

IMO WCJ for Porzingis is fine on value for Boston if they don't have to take much additional salary due to WCJ small cap hit still next year, Orlando would be mostly responsible if contract shedding is needed. But I am hesitant to make that deal for Orlando given KP health concerns and likely salary requirements to resign. Might be better to stay put and have the smaller more flexible contracts.

[Skybox]

Porzingis is certainly tantalizing for ORL, but next year, when he expires (or taps out due to injury history) and Paolo's max kicks in, ORL may not have any ability to pay a replacement...this is a perilous time for ORL to spend big on damaged goods - just like BOS. Isaac at $15m and 15mpg is a better risk, imo, even though he'll remain a multi-positon backup. I don't think ORL can bet on Goga to be their C when KP is taking his routine days off. If I had more faith in a backup vet (like BOS had with Horford) - maybe.

it's a shame, I love the crowd response to KP in BOS as well as his amazing skillset.

[Nyce_1]

If Carter can get back to his two seasons of +35% 3PT% before is abysmal season last year, Magic are fine with their current floor-stretching 5 and decline this offer.