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deeps6x wrote:I guarantee you that (Jaylen) Brown and (Kris) Dunn are drafted OUT of the top 5.
HumbleRen wrote:Am I the only one who thinks this Ace Bailey stuff is overblown?
Plenty of star prospects have asked teams not to draft them based on fits. Stephen Curry, Haliburton, Alexander Sarr, etc etc.
I don't see him dropping out of the top 7.
LoveMyRaps wrote:HumbleRen wrote:Am I the only one who thinks this Ace Bailey stuff is overblown?
Plenty of star prospects have asked teams not to draft them based on fits. Stephen Curry, Haliburton, Alexander Sarr, etc etc.
I don't see him dropping out of the top 7.
Please "overblow" it even more. Contribute to the propaganda as much as possible.
Need him to drop to #9
HumbleRen wrote:Am I the only one who thinks this Ace Bailey stuff is overblown?
Plenty of star prospects have asked teams not to draft them based on fits. Stephen Curry, Haliburton, Alexander Sarr, etc etc.
I don't see him dropping out of the top 7.
Clay Davis wrote:COMPOSED ONLY OF THE COOLEST WOMEN AND THE HOTTEST GUYS, THE TORONTO RAPTORS REALGM BOARD HAS LONG BEEN KNOWN FOR ITS HIGH-QUALITY DISCUSSION, PASSIONATE LOYALTY, TEMPERATE CELEBRATIONS OF VICTORY, AND GRACE IN DEFEAT.
OakleyDokely wrote:Ace Bailey trying to position himself to a certain team is nothing new. Doesn't make him look the greatest but whatever. The bigger concerns are what he did on the court and there are a lot of red flags.
Red Flag 1: The negative assist to turnover ratio. 2 turnovers to 1.3 assists is bad, it's one of the worst in the draft. The inability to be an efficient on ball playmaker really limits your offensive upside in the NBA.
Red Flag 2: The efficiency. A 53 TS% is pretty mediocre. It wasn't helped by the fact he didn't get to the line a lot either and when he did he shot under 70%.
Red Flag 3: His size for his style of play. He measured fine (6'7, 7ft wingspan) but that isn't gigantic by NBA standards. He's going to face defenders as big or bigger in the NBA. This becomes an issue for him because he likes to take a lot of difficult shots and that's a lot easier to do when you're facing mostly smaller college kids. In the NBA, every wing is 6'6-6'10 and getting off shots is a lot more difficult.
Red Flag 4: The analytics don't like him and the stats typically don't lie.
He's still young, so there's a lot of room for growth. But you'd have to bet on the kid having a high work rate and the mentality to know that he's not good enough yet and that major improvements need to happen before he can become an efficient, high usage wing in the NBA.
Psubs wrote:OakleyDokely wrote:Ace Bailey trying to position himself to a certain team is nothing new. Doesn't make him look the greatest but whatever. The bigger concerns are what he did on the court and there are a lot of red flags.
Red Flag 1: The negative assist to turnover ratio. 2 turnovers to 1.3 assists is bad, it's one of the worst in the draft. The inability to be an efficient on ball playmaker really limits your offensive upside in the NBA.
Red Flag 2: The efficiency. A 53 TS% is pretty mediocre. It wasn't helped by the fact he didn't get to the line a lot either and when he did he shot under 70%.
Red Flag 3: His size for his style of play. He measured fine (6'7, 7ft wingspan) but that isn't gigantic by NBA standards. He's going to face defenders as big or bigger in the NBA. This becomes an issue for him because he likes to take a lot of difficult shots and that's a lot easier to do when you're facing mostly smaller college kids. In the NBA, every wing is 6'6-6'10 and getting off shots is a lot more difficult.
Red Flag 4: The analytics don't like him and the stats typically don't lie.
He's still young, so there's a lot of room for growth. But you'd have to bet on the kid having a high work rate and the mentality to know that he's not good enough yet and that major improvements need to happen before he can become an efficient, high usage wing in the NBA.
Carter Bryant is also 6'7 without shoes with a 7ft wingspan but is a solid 215 lbs with a 40 inch vertical. Bailey had a 35 inch vertical. If Bryant had free reign, he likely puts up over 15 ppg.
OakleyDokely wrote:OK, I think I've finally settled on my top 20.
1. C Flagg
2. D Harper
3. T Johnson
4. J Fears
5. K Maluach
6. K Knueppel
7. VJ Edgecombe
8. C Coward
9. CM Boyles
10. R Fleming
11. K Jakucionis
12. A Bailey
13. N Essengue
14. C Bryant
15. J Richardson
16. T Sorber
17. D Queen
18. A Thiero
19. E Demin
20. A Newell
OakleyDokely wrote:I see two paths for Ace.
Inefficient volume scorer on mediocre teams.
Efficient 3+D on winning teams.
He might end up as both as his career evolves.
OakleyDokely wrote:I see two paths for Ace.
Inefficient volume scorer on mediocre teams.
Efficient 3+D on winning teams.
He might end up as both as his career evolves.
Basketball_Jones wrote:Thaddy wrote:I think Coward is going to be another safe pick. If we could get both him and Fleming we'd have a great draft. I don't think this is the time to consolidate for a star but I would trade Agbaji for another first and take Fleming. After the rookies show they can fill in the gaps after a trade I would look to make a consolidation trade using RJ + Poeltl + Dick + future 1st.
Fleming / Chomche / Yang
Durant / Mogbo
Ingram / Walter
Barnes / Coward
Quickely / Shead
Insert a star at either C or SG and continue filling gaps with the 2nd round picks. I am hoping we take Yang if he's there. Chomche and Yang would be great to have in the development pipeline. It'd be great to see them in the summer league too.
Coward is safe and I think he also has plenty of upside too. You can argue level of comp and he’s like a year older though otherwise I find very little to complain about with him.
HumbleRen wrote:OakleyDokely wrote:I see two paths for Ace.
Inefficient volume scorer on mediocre teams.
Efficient 3+D on winning teams.
He might end up as both as his career evolves.
I think he ends up a better shot creating version of Wiggins. Not a top 30 player but a solid 3rd best player on a great team.
Double Helix wrote:What follows is not my mock of what I think will happen, or even who I think will be best for the Raptors roster necessarily, but my 30 favorite prospects.
Tier 1 - All NBA likely
1. Flagg
Tier 2 - All NBA possible, multiple all star likely
2. Harper
Tier 3 - All Star upside, starting caliber likely
3. Ace
4. Tre
5. VJ
6. Fears
7. Kon
8. Maluach
Tier 4 - outside All Star possibility exists on high end, top 6 rotation likely
9. Kasparas
10. Demin
11. Coward
12. Queen
13. Bryant
14. Sorber
15. Essengue
16. CMB
Tier 5 - top 7 rotation player upside with possible 6th man upside
17. Fleming
18. Mcneeely
19. Clifford
20. Traore
21. Newell
22. Beringer
23. Richardson
24. Riley
25. Wolf
Tier 6 - Top 9 rotation player playing 20 min or more upside
26. Penda
27. Clayton Jr
28. Broome
29. Saraf
30. Yang
When the first round of the NBA Draft loads a fast-elapsing five minutes for each selection, while the heartbeats for every executive on the clock race in the other direction, fates of careers and entire franchises truly hang in the balance. A home run swing in the late lottery can resurrect an entire organization. A total whiff can lead to a front office being fired.
That margin for error seems much larger this June, with such wild variance among scouts' rankings and projections of so many prospects. Working within those confines could very well lead some teams to choose the player they deem has the highest possible floor. Or the lowest risk of failure. Or the skill set and tools most likely to translate at the next level.
All of those descriptors might well apply to Egor Demin, BYU's supersized playmaker who is known for his standout feel on both sides of the court.
"He'll have multiple homes," said one Eastern Conference executive, "because he can fit so many places."
His college coach Kevin Young deemed Demin a natural point guard — one who already stands 6-foot-8 when barefoot and boasts a 6-foot-10 wingspan at that. Other teams might be tempted to slot him on the wing as a jumbo secondary creator after Demin flashed some improved shooting efficiency during the Chicago Draft Combine. He's packed on some of the requisite lower-body muscle during pre-draft training, at the behest of his agent Niko Filipovich of BDA Sports International, that a player with his build is obligated to pack. With the NBA Finals headed for a deciding seventh game and having repeatedly illustrated how handy it is in the modern NBA to assemble a roster outfitted with multiple ballhandlers and positional versatility, Young argues that what the scouts see as Demin's floor needs to be raised.
"Outside of Dylan [Harper] and Cooper [Flagg], he has the most upside," insists Young, who just completed his first season as BYU's head coach after a notable run as an assistant coach in Phoenix that earned the strong backing of Suns star Devin Booker.
"You just don't find a lot of guys," Young said of Demin, "with his size and level of skill."
Demin has worked out for various teams throughout this process. The list naturally includes the nearby Jazz (who hold the No. 5 overall pick) and also features the Wizards (No. 6), Pelicans (No. 7), Nets (No. 8), Trail Blazers (No. 11) Bulls (No. 12), Hawks (No. 13) and Thunder (No. 15).
We've heard consistent buzz that he is drawing particular interest from Brooklyn. Many front offices appear intrigued by the talent that complements Demin's lengthy frame. It is no stretch to say that he is the highest-rated NBA Draft prospect with Real Madrid in his background since a certain Luka Dončić.
"It's hard because Luka is Luka … and everyone else is their own," Demin told The Stein Line. He's heard the comparisons since his stellar performance for Russia at a FIBA U16s tournament in 2021 thrust Demin into the NBA consciousness.
"There is nobody like Luka," he repeats, "and Luka is like nobody else.”
Yet there is some crossover in their backgrounds and the standout size they bring to the backcourt. One significant advantage that Demin holds over numerous peers in this draft class: He spent three seasons with the European giants in Spain. While undeniably true that his first-team experience at Real Madrid, in the end, spanned only one game, Demin's pro debut came at the heady age of 17 after two years of development in the club's cadet program.
Also somewhat Luka-like: From a young age Demin has always loomed large at his position with that elongated frame and a tremendous feel. He played all kinds of sports growing up in Moscow, from soccer to hockey to skiing, giving him all sorts of perspectives to see the game from different angles no matter what surface was beneath his feet. His parents are prone to tell stories of young Egor crawling up the edges of playgrounds' slides rather than utilizing them in the conventional manner. He would cling and climb around jungle gyms without any safety net to brace potential falls.
"I needed the danger," Demin told me.
Now he whips one-handed dimes 40 feet to the opposite corner. Or two-handed, soccer-throw-in-style darts that zip over the top of the entire defense. Demin opened the second half at home this season against Oklahoma State with what Young affectionately referred to as "an absolute rope." He's bidding to become BYU's first lottery pick since Jimmer Fredette was selected 10th overall in the 2011 NBA Draft.
"Me being a risk-taker, it applies to me not being scared to do a beautiful pass or something like this," Demin said. "You don't predetermine a pass. But at the same time, really having this feel of seeing what can happen, I'm really trying to analyze and see the game a step ahead of you."
Moving halfway around the world to chase a dream in Spain, putting him on a track to surpass his father Vladimir's own hardwood success as a pro and national team player in Russia, delivered Demin's first taste of sacrifice. Madrid officials introduced strict structure and rules — from diet to schedule. "People would call it the golden cage," Demin said. "You have the best environment and it's all the best around you, but you're kinda under control." Only once a week could the young prospects flee their coop to enjoy some pizza while strolling a local shopping mall.
BYU presented the opposite dynamic. Demin lived alone in his own apartment and faced no checks and balances beyond the Cougars' basketball activities and his classes. He quickly learned that some of the greatest college lessons exist beyond the confines of your schedule: How to make use of abundant spare time. Provo offered mountains to climb and a major river to kayak. He gained an advisor and mentor in former BYU star Travis Hansen.
In the fall, several freshmen players from the women's hoops team wanted to gather around a bonfire with other first-year athletes from the soccer and football rosters and whoever else was moved to join their community. Only Demin and fellow freshman guard Elijah Crawford represented the men's basketball team, making the 10-minute drive up Provo Canyon to a grassy knoll full of fire pits. That's where Demin first met Delaney Gibb, one of the brains behind the bonfire and a high-scoring hooper in her own right. It wasn't long before BYU's star freshman from Real Madrid found himself playing pickleball with Gibb and two of her teammates back on campus.
Their conversation could not be contained by those painted lines. Their relationship progressed and a connection was forged through the shared experience of navigating life as their team's premier player — as young leaders of veterans — while both were still so new to BYU. How could they bolster the camaraderie within their respective locker rooms? How could they replicate what happened at the off-campus retreat that brought them together?
"Every teammate has a different communication language," said Demin, who himself speaks three — Russian and Spanish to go along with his English — while he's also working now to learn French.
"Somebody just asks me to tell them the goal," he said. "Someone you need to sit down and say: 'Hey, how's your life, how's it going?' Talk to them before we start getting to the basketball."
Once he does get to the game, Demin has a knack for memorizing others' preferred actions and spots on the floor. There were questions about his shot from long distance as a Cougar, but that does not appear to be what the scouts are zeroed in on. "He's very cerebral," said one NBA staffer whose team interviewed Demin in Chicago.
No surprise, then, that the young couple routinely broke down game film over meals. He was always struck by Gibbs' unrelenting competitive streak. "It's honestly out of control sometimes,” Demin said. "We can sit together, but it's nothing but a chance to win."
"He's a thinker," Young told me. "And to have a hooper as a girlfriend who's kinda pushing you, they made each other better."
Maybe it's no coincidence that Gibb went on to become the unanimous Big 12 Freshman of the Year, averaging 17.4 points per game. Demin, meanwhile, was playing himself into NBA lottery territory with games like his 11-point, 8-rebound, 8-assist effort against Wisconsin in the second round of the NCAA Tournament to lead the Cougars to the second weekend of March Madness.
The position Demin plays to start his NBA career will ultimately be determined by the team that selects him. The elastic prospect nonetheless believes that he will be ripping rebounds that quickly turn into fast breaks from Day 1. He'll certainly have to shoot the long ball better at the next level than his 27.3% success rate at BYU, but he's only 19.
Young is confident that figure will rise once Demin is able to benefit from the increased spacing and quality playmakers beside him in the NBA.
"He's going to have way more catch-and-shoot opportunities," said Young, who sports nearly a decade of NBA experience and was strongly considered for the Suns' head coaching job before Phoenix hired Mike Budenholzer entering the 2024-25 season.
"The kid," Young said, "is going to be able to shoot the ball."
His greatest belief in Demin, though, stems from what many coaches regard as the hardest things to teach. Young is a huge fan of Demin's desire, heart and smarts … how he processes defenses, road environments, you name it.
Against West Virginia, with the Mountaineers overcrowding the 3-point line to try to limit BYU's many shooters around Demin, Young tore into his floor leader at halftime. The Cougars were only down two at intermission, but the coach wanted to see Demin put his head down and get to the damn rim.
The speech?
"Get to the paint! Be 6'9. Play with an edge. Get downhill more."
Demin duly barreled his way onto the floor and through the Mountaineers' defense throughout the second half, using his gallop of a Eurostep to finish on the other side of the paint. He lowered his shoulder and finished through contact, too, leaving his coach grinning on the sideline.
Demin delivered more of the same at tourney time, frequently getting into the lane and looking ambidextrous in stretches with his dribble and finishing.
"That's a big part of learning — how to be able to manage it yourself and not start doing it after someone gets on you," Demin said. "How to find that state of mind myself."
He is not Luka, true, but the lanky teenager leaves you with the impression that there is really no playmaker like him, either, among the players who will be selected in the first round of Wednesday night's proceedings.
"It's who I am and this is what I see for myself," Demin said. "I'm just trying to be the best version of who I am."
