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The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 3

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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 3 

Post#621 » by Sunsdeuce » Fri Jun 20, 2025 2:48 pm

BobbieL wrote:
Sunsdeuce wrote:We are making national headlines for being a poorly run organization

https://www.rawchili.com/nba/112101/

“Embarrassing Kevin Durant blunder has Suns front office looking as clueless as ever“

We went from Sarver to Sarver. I had no idea this was even possible.


Ishbia deserves the criticism. He came in and within 24 hours made a trade that changed the trajectory of the franchise - and not for the better. But he couldn't stop there - Beal and than the Ayton trade. He has lost them all -- just terrible move.

So now MattyIsh has to do the one thing he doesn't want to do - admit failure, take a step back and look to rebuild basically. Every day since the Durant trade, the team has never been better than before the trade. Yes, in a seven games series I think the team with Bridges, Saric and Cam Johnson beat the team with Durant and the player they got from the Thunder - forget his name as he didn't make it.

He’s never going to admit mistakes. He came in on day one and hasn’t done a single thing right and still thinks he’s done nothing wrong. Will he ever change, who knows?

I’m worried that he’s going broke on top of everything else. We are going to lose the KD trade. We have to only pray we lose the trade by a few meters instead of miles now.

Crazy how young and ascending we were with Ayton, Bridges and Booker.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 3 

Post#622 » by matt131 » Fri Jun 20, 2025 2:52 pm

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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 3 

Post#623 » by BobbieL » Fri Jun 20, 2025 2:54 pm

Sunsdeuce wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
Sunsdeuce wrote:We are making national headlines for being a poorly run organization

https://www.rawchili.com/nba/112101/

“Embarrassing Kevin Durant blunder has Suns front office looking as clueless as ever“

We went from Sarver to Sarver. I had no idea this was even possible.


Ishbia deserves the criticism. He came in and within 24 hours made a trade that changed the trajectory of the franchise - and not for the better. But he couldn't stop there - Beal and than the Ayton trade. He has lost them all -- just terrible move.

So now MattyIsh has to do the one thing he doesn't want to do - admit failure, take a step back and look to rebuild basically. Every day since the Durant trade, the team has never been better than before the trade. Yes, in a seven games series I think the team with Bridges, Saric and Cam Johnson beat the team with Durant and the player they got from the Thunder - forget his name as he didn't make it.

He’s never going to admit mistakes. He came in on day one and hasn’t done a single thing right and still thinks he’s done nothing wrong. Will he ever change, who knows?

I’m worried that he’s going broke on top of everything else. We are going to lose the KD trade. We have to only pray we lose the trade by a few meters instead of miles now.

Crazy how young and ascending we were with Ayton, Bridges and Booker.


I think you can add Cam Johnson to the mix as well. That was a good solid Core 4. Much better than the bleep show that he has created

Even just trading Jae Crowder for 5 second round picks and the expirings.

The one time Silver pushed through an ownership change. The day before the trading deadline. Just horrible.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 3 

Post#624 » by Ghost of Kleine » Fri Jun 20, 2025 2:56 pm

One_and_Done wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
One_and_Done wrote:Guys like Caruso are never expendable. They aren't giving you Hart either.


This is the misconception though under the new CBA. The Thunder have some really tough choices to make by the 26-27 season as they'll face not only the Shai supermax increase (similar to Booker's increase),


But they'll also have multiple core extensions as soon as this summer ( I believe) and they'll have to create pretty significant cap reduction just to resign/ extend their core guys. So some big salaries will have to go, otherwise they'll be forced to break up their core.

Under the new CBA, it's just not sustainable anymore! Would you think it's more likely that they break up their core just to keep Hartenstein and Caruso? Or they move those two contracts in order to keep their young, exciting core together a bit longer??

Trading those two players for a rental of KD resets their books affording them over $54 million to pay their core players. It just makes sense logically from a business and financial standpoint. :dontknow:



Trading for 37 yr old KD, who expects a max extension and could get injured any time, is not a better use of money for the Thunder than cheap, productive role players who can easily be traded later.


You're missing the point here I think. Besides the fact that KD just happened to play in 75 games this past season and 62 games thr season before that. The argument for age and injury is currently irrelevant. And honestly it's a weak argument to make as really any player can get injured at any point too.

And again, looking at his past couple of seasons and the heavy minutes he's logged while playing in 62 games and more recently 75 games just this past season, KD has shown quite remarkable durability all things considered.

The argument about age is also pretty irrelevant too though considering the fact that KD is still putting up ALL NBA ( and near MVP) level production and on elite efficiency too. You'd be pretty hard pressed to honestly find any other player remotely close to his age even coming close to that kind of production and elite efficiency.

In fact. what KD is doing (even at 37) is so rare and incredible that the vast majority of NBA pundits. experts and analysts still consider him one of three best offensive talents in nba history.


Really, the only grouping of people that are promoting these weak and inaccurate narratives against KDs' value/ impact are ironically other teams fans that are trying to diminish or suppress the perception of his value so they can try and get him at a significant discount at the expense of the Suns.

Lastly, the relevant portion of the argument in that KD would likely want an extension. But honestly, this argument is irrelevant to the whole intention of OKC trading for him BECAUSE they'd be doing it intentionally as a rental so they could clear 54 million off of their books and use that cap reduction to absorb their key core scale increases and contract extensions.

In the meantime, KD could help to elevate them to their championship goals as they're already so close. But had trouble scoring in the clutch for periods of the game.

Ironically KDs' elite forte' and then at the end of the season, he expires, giving them the massive cap space needed to resign their core players like Holmgren, Wallace, J Williams, and then give Shai his supermax ( 8% bookeresque) scale increase.

KDs' value to them man is optimized by actually being an elite offensive clutch weapon and only a single season rental that'll free up massive cap space at the end of the season to help them keep their young expensive core together. :nod:
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 3 

Post#625 » by Ghost of Kleine » Fri Jun 20, 2025 3:02 pm

matt131 wrote:
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I'm actually intrigued by Wolf, even more so by Maxime Raynaud IF the Suns were to actually find a way to add a top end defensive center like Claxton or Gobert.

Either of those two centers would insulate Wolf and Raynauds' deficiencies on that end freeing them up to focus on their high end offensive versatility and giving us two 7 fters in our rontcourt.

Operating as an offensive/ defensive duo/ compliment to one another.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 3 

Post#626 » by Ghost of Kleine » Fri Jun 20, 2025 3:06 pm

KdoubleDees23 wrote:
Sunsdeuce wrote:
Fo-Real wrote:
Not a peep from anyone running this ship should speak volumes to you!! Unwelcome and spit on, iis ok as long as the moral elite deem you less than..... or however politics work for some. Not a peep because it's a shared view.... "Here's what they think about you"..... ~Ice Cube

Get off your high horse hero and practice what you preach. Worry about basketball.


You stop bringing politics into it! Quit crying! I fought for this country and if Make America Great Again offends you because you don't like the dude, be better and get some anger management classes. You are what is wrong with this country and you are the reason for the divide. get some help and stick to basketball

I come here to get away from the news, and the crap that is going on, then to see you posting about political stuff. You may need a break from this page or a psychiatrist

GO SUNS


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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 3 

Post#627 » by Ghost of Kleine » Fri Jun 20, 2025 3:19 pm

WuTang_OG wrote:I think the real prize is getting your 2027 pick back from Houston out of any other asset out there.

In 12 months you can re-evaluate and you can entertain Booker offers going into 26/27 season with freedom to do what you want


I'm honestly not as concerned about the 27' 1st or even the 29' 1st if we can get a top 10 or close range lotto pick ( cost controlled asset) and also some solid pieces from a KD trade.

Because we can generate significant cap space too (if done correctly) and revamp our roster well enough to mitigate that value in the summer of 27' by adding legitimate depth pieces from the 26' free agency summer.


Essentially, we'd use this summer ( KD trade) to add key depth pieces/ assets/ cost controlled young talent and size. And then in 26' utilize our cap space (generated from the KD trade) to sign more legitimate free agents.


And finally in 27' when Beal's 57 million comes off of our books, we'll have close to 60-70 million in a loaded free agency summer to completely revamp our roster and get back to legitimate playoff contention.

Lastly, our acquired lotto picks from this summer 2025 draft can grow with our core, or we can trade back for more additional pieces and picks to offset what we behave up in the KD and Beal trades.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 3 

Post#628 » by Rebound Mound » Fri Jun 20, 2025 3:23 pm

VV
Booker
Dunn
Jabari
Porzingis
--------------------------
Gillespie
Allen
Bol
XXX
Plumlee
-----------------
Oso

I would be OK with this roster too:

Ball
Booker
Dunn
XXX
Vucevic
-------------------
Gillespie
Huerter
Allen
Bol
Porzingis
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 3 

Post#629 » by WuTang_OG » Fri Jun 20, 2025 3:24 pm

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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 3 

Post#630 » by BobbieL » Fri Jun 20, 2025 3:25 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:I think the real prize is getting your 2027 pick back from Houston out of any other asset out there.

In 12 months you can re-evaluate and you can entertain Booker offers going into 26/27 season with freedom to do what you want


I'm honestly not as concerned about the 27' 1st or even the 29' 1st if we can get a top 10 or close range lotto pick ( cost controlled asset) and also some solid pieces from a KD trade.

Because we can generate significant cap space too (if done correctly) and revamp our roster well enough to mitigate that value in the summer of 27' by adding legitimate depth pieces from the 26' free agency summer.


Essentially, we'd use this summer ( KD trade) to add key depth pieces/ assets/ cost controlled young talent and size. And then in 26' utilize our cap space (generated from the KD trade) to sign more legitimate free agents.


And finally in 27' when Beal's 57 million comes off of our books, we'll have close to 60-70 million in a loaded free agency summer to completely revamp our roster and get back to legitimate playoff contention.

Lastly, our acquired lotto picks from this summer 2025 draft can grow with our core, or we can trade back for more additional pieces and picks to offset what we behave up in the KD and Beal trades.


GOK - but you know Ishbia isn't thinking like that - long term. Two years. He is thinking short term. If he can convince Beal to take the 95m buyout he can stretch him because at that point the Suns can use the MLE - for 14 millon dollars

So lets do the math -- he is going to have access to the MLE at 14 but with Beal gone, that player is really costing him $33m

Now does that really make sense to spend $33m on Royce O'Neal or Grayson Allen type player. It really doesn't. If Ishbia were smart, he would go for the bigger cap space. And even if you do not sign a free agent, maybe you take on an expiring contract for a draft pick.

But Ishbia will do something stupid and Flex and Gambo will say he is playing 3D chess until they realize that the player they think is costing them 14m is actually costing them much more!
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 3 

Post#631 » by Sunsdeuce » Fri Jun 20, 2025 3:36 pm

BobbieL wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:I think the real prize is getting your 2027 pick back from Houston out of any other asset out there.

In 12 months you can re-evaluate and you can entertain Booker offers going into 26/27 season with freedom to do what you want


I'm honestly not as concerned about the 27' 1st or even the 29' 1st if we can get a top 10 or close range lotto pick ( cost controlled asset) and also some solid pieces from a KD trade.

Because we can generate significant cap space too (if done correctly) and revamp our roster well enough to mitigate that value in the summer of 27' by adding legitimate depth pieces from the 26' free agency summer.


Essentially, we'd use this summer ( KD trade) to add key depth pieces/ assets/ cost controlled young talent and size. And then in 26' utilize our cap space (generated from the KD trade) to sign more legitimate free agents.


And finally in 27' when Beal's 57 million comes off of our books, we'll have close to 60-70 million in a loaded free agency summer to completely revamp our roster and get back to legitimate playoff contention.

Lastly, our acquired lotto picks from this summer 2025 draft can grow with our core, or we can trade back for more additional pieces and picks to offset what we behave up in the KD and Beal trades.


GOK - but you know Ishbia isn't thinking like that - long term. Two years. He is thinking short term. If he can convince Beal to take the 95m buyout he can stretch him because at that point the Suns can use the MLE - for 14 millon dollars

So lets do the math -- he is going to have access to the MLE at 14 but with Beal gone, that player is really costing him $33m

Now does that really make sense to spend $33m on Royce O'Neal or Grayson Allen type player. It really doesn't. If Ishbia were smart, he would go for the bigger cap space. And even if you do not sign a free agent, maybe you take on an expiring contract for a draft pick.

But Ishbia will do something stupid and Flex and Gambo will say he is playing 3D chess until they realize that the player they think is costing them 14m is actually costing them much more!
exactly
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 3 

Post#632 » by RaptorLakerJay » Fri Jun 20, 2025 3:39 pm

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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 3 

Post#633 » by Sunsdeuce » Fri Jun 20, 2025 3:39 pm

WuTang_OG wrote:
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Spolestra could not care less about Ware or any of the players being talked about in a Heat trade. None of them are FULL rotation players. It’s Riley trying to stop the inclusion of Ware (acting like Ware is the next Alonzo Mourning or something). Heat assets are the worst amongst all teams.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 3 

Post#634 » by Sunsdeuce » Fri Jun 20, 2025 3:41 pm

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Well then Houston can flounder getting booted in the 1st or 2nd round of the playoffs for the next 5 years. KD is the best chance they have to be a true contender. Onto the next team.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 3 

Post#635 » by BobbieL » Fri Jun 20, 2025 3:47 pm

Sunsdeuce wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
I'm honestly not as concerned about the 27' 1st or even the 29' 1st if we can get a top 10 or close range lotto pick ( cost controlled asset) and also some solid pieces from a KD trade.

Because we can generate significant cap space too (if done correctly) and revamp our roster well enough to mitigate that value in the summer of 27' by adding legitimate depth pieces from the 26' free agency summer.


Essentially, we'd use this summer ( KD trade) to add key depth pieces/ assets/ cost controlled young talent and size. And then in 26' utilize our cap space (generated from the KD trade) to sign more legitimate free agents.


And finally in 27' when Beal's 57 million comes off of our books, we'll have close to 60-70 million in a loaded free agency summer to completely revamp our roster and get back to legitimate playoff contention.

Lastly, our acquired lotto picks from this summer 2025 draft can grow with our core, or we can trade back for more additional pieces and picks to offset what we behave up in the KD and Beal trades.


GOK - but you know Ishbia isn't thinking like that - long term. Two years. He is thinking short term. If he can convince Beal to take the 95m buyout he can stretch him because at that point the Suns can use the MLE - for 14 millon dollars

So lets do the math -- he is going to have access to the MLE at 14 but with Beal gone, that player is really costing him $33m

Now does that really make sense to spend $33m on Royce O'Neal or Grayson Allen type player. It really doesn't. If Ishbia were smart, he would go for the bigger cap space. And even if you do not sign a free agent, maybe you take on an expiring contract for a draft pick.

But Ishbia will do something stupid and Flex and Gambo will say he is playing 3D chess until they realize that the player they think is costing them 14m is actually costing them much more!
exactly


A good GM and owner would just be patient with Beal, try to get contracts for Allen and O'Neale that expire in 2027 and really set yourself up for flexibility with the roster. As lets be honest, the player they sign for the MLE will probably not be better than Bradley Beal - if healthy. But the new player needs to be healthy too.

Cap space - even if free agents do not sign with you - is still valuable.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 3e 

Post#636 » by Sunsdeuce » Fri Jun 20, 2025 3:55 pm

BobbieL wrote:
Sunsdeuce wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
GOK - but you know Ishbia isn't thinking like that - long term. Two years. He is thinking short term. If he can convince Beal to take the 95m buyout he can stretch him because at that point the Suns can use the MLE - for 14 millon dollars

So lets do the math -- he is going to have access to the MLE at 14 but with Beal gone, that player is really costing him $33m

Now does that really make sense to spend $33m on Royce O'Neal or Grayson Allen type player. It really doesn't. If Ishbia were smart, he would go for the bigger cap space. And even if you do not sign a free agent, maybe you take on an expiring contract for a draft pick.

But Ishbia will do something stupid and Flex and Gambo will say he is playing 3D chess until they realize that the player they think is costing them 14m is actually costing them much more!
exactly


A good GM and owner would just be patient with Beal, try to get contracts for Allen and O'Neale that expire in 2027 and really set yourself up for flexibility with the roster. As lets be honest, the player they sign for the MLE will probably not be better than Bradley Beal - if healthy. But the new player needs to be healthy too.

Cap space - even if free agents do not sign with you - is still valuable.

Ishbia is star hungry drunk. And in his drunkenness he bought Beal without doing due diligence of his roster and his salary cap. He went to a strip club loaded with $100 bills and woke up the next day and saw his bank account was bone dry.

Now the only workable situation is to ride out Beals contract. It’s not Beals fault he was brought onto a roster that was duplicative of the position and style he plays.

James Jones also didn’t help with his love of tweener, combo guards. So the whole roster minus a few players were combo guards and the team has always lacked size with James Jones as GM.

So yeah One or both of O’Neal and Allen need to go.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 3 

Post#637 » by BobbieL » Fri Jun 20, 2025 4:01 pm

Sunsdeuce wrote:
RaptorLakerJay wrote:
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Well then Houston can flounder getting booted in the 1st or 2nd round of the playoffs for the next 5 years. KD is the best chance they have to be a true contender. Onto the next team.


End of the day, I can see Houston wanting to keep the picks but Green and Jabari plus a FRP for Durant - -he could put them over the top

Granted, I would prefer Dillon brooks and Jabari Smith but not sure that is happening as they want to dump Green. So to dump green, give up Jabari!
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 3 

Post#638 » by Sunsdeuce » Fri Jun 20, 2025 4:07 pm

BobbieL wrote:
Sunsdeuce wrote:
RaptorLakerJay wrote:
Read on Twitter

Well then Houston can flounder getting booted in the 1st or 2nd round of the playoffs for the next 5 years. KD is the best chance they have to be a true contender. Onto the next team.


End of the day, I can see Houston wanting to keep the picks but Green and Jabari plus a FRP for Durant - -he could put them over the top

Granted, I would prefer Dillon brooks and Jabari Smith but not sure that is happening as they want to dump Green. So to dump green, give up Jabari!

I agree with you. Problem with Houston is that they have a lot of really good players but no super stars. And you need a superstar to take you over the top.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 3 

Post#639 » by WuTang_OG » Fri Jun 20, 2025 4:10 pm

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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 3 

Post#640 » by RaptorLakerJay » Fri Jun 20, 2025 4:12 pm

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