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2025 NBA Draft Thread: Detroit Pick Edition

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Re: 202[emoji2[emoji2391]9[emoji2391]] NBA Draft Thread: Detroit Pick Edition 

Post#1001 » by minimus » Fri Jun 20, 2025 6:16 am

Norseman79 wrote:I'm not a sober fan. Wingspan nice, height, standing reach, vertical and mobility are not.

Yep, 6'11 Sorber would be in top-5. I also see some questions with how he was used in defense mainly as drop defender. I mean with such measurements he should be more willing to switch. Either way I think hands-eye coordination, positional awareness and IQ might be big swing skills for him. He also should continue to work on his body, I feel like losing 10-15 lbs and improving his stamina and strength would be beneficial
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread: Detroit Pick Edition 

Post#1002 » by KGdaBom » Fri Jun 20, 2025 11:30 am

Norseman79 wrote:I'm not a sober fan. Wingspan nice, height, standing reach, vertical and mobility are not.

How much vertical and how much mobility does Jokic have?
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread: Detroit Pick Edition 

Post#1003 » by jpatrick » Fri Jun 20, 2025 12:31 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
Norseman79 wrote:I'm not a sober fan. Wingspan nice, height, standing reach, vertical and mobility are not.

How much vertical and how much mobility does Jokic have?


He’s got a nice reach but he’s a lot smaller than Jokic. And Jokic is one of one, no one else has his instincts/passing ability. Wendell Carter Jr is probably Sorber’s best comp if things click.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread: Detroit Pick Edition 

Post#1004 » by dschroeder01 » Fri Jun 20, 2025 1:49 pm

Norseman79 wrote:I'm not a sober fan. Wingspan nice, height, standing reach, vertical and mobility are not.


Sorber's standing reach is 9'1"

Hartenstein and KAT have standing reach of 9'1". Horford 8'11.5".
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Re: 202[emoji2[emoji2391]9[emoji2391]] NBA Draft Thread: Detroit Pick Edition 

Post#1005 » by dschroeder01 » Fri Jun 20, 2025 1:54 pm

minimus wrote:
Norseman79 wrote:I'm not a sober fan. Wingspan nice, height, standing reach, vertical and mobility are not.

Yep, 6'11 Sorber would be in top-5. I also see some questions with how he was used in defense mainly as drop defender. I mean with such measurements he should be more willing to switch. Either way I think hands-eye coordination, positional awareness and IQ might be big swing skills for him. He also should continue to work on his body, I feel like losing 10-15 lbs and improving his stamina and strength would be beneficial

If the extra 2 inches came with more wingspan and reach, then sure, but why does where the top of his head is at matter for basketball? Some guys just have a shorter neck and I couldn't care less. Sorber has the wingspan and reach of a center to go along with wide shoulders and overall massive frame.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread: Detroit Pick Edition 

Post#1006 » by Norseman79 » Fri Jun 20, 2025 2:53 pm

Just because I said I'm not a fan doesn't mean I didn't say there could be potential. I just don't see the athletic traits. There's a chance Maluach ends up in the West, Wemby is already here, Kingen is here, Zubac is here, Lively is here, the Lakers will add someone, I'm sure I'm forgetting one or two, I'm not saying there's no chance he could turn out, just saying that I'm not a fan. Give him some elite quickness and explosive hops with his long arms, then you might have something.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread: Detroit Pick Edition 

Post#1007 » by thinktank » Fri Jun 20, 2025 3:07 pm

Sorber didn’t do any athletic tests at the combine? Hmmmm.

https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-strength-agility
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread: Detroit Pick Edition 

Post#1008 » by frankenwolf » Fri Jun 20, 2025 3:11 pm

thinktank wrote:Sorber didn’t do any athletic tests at the combine? Hmmmm.

https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-strength-agility


Foot injury takes him out of that.
WTH just happened??
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread: Detroit Pick Edition 

Post#1009 » by dschroeder01 » Fri Jun 20, 2025 4:03 pm

Norseman79 wrote:Just because I said I'm not a fan doesn't mean I didn't say there could be potential. I just don't see the athletic traits. There's a chance Maluach ends up in the West, Wemby is already here, Kingen is here, Zubac is here, Lively is here, the Lakers will add someone, I'm sure I'm forgetting one or two, I'm not saying there's no chance he could turn out, just saying that I'm not a fan. Give him some elite quickness and explosive hops with his long arms, then you might have something.
It's certainly fine to not be a fan. I was just pushing back on the critique that height/reach are reasons he won't succeed. You may be right that he's not explosive enough to succeed. I just see quite a big of Al Horford in his game. His block and steal #s tell me that he's athletic enough in ways that matter on the court beyond just going vertical for dunks. His passing adds into the idea that he's got a good feel for the game.

Another thing I've grown to appreciate more and more is that strength is hugely important. Sorber isn't tall, but he's got a massive frame and with the right strength and conditioning program, he could be a bear with how he creates horizontal space like a Steven Adams.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread: Detroit Pick Edition 

Post#1010 » by KGdaBom » Fri Jun 20, 2025 4:03 pm

jpatrick wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
Norseman79 wrote:I'm not a sober fan. Wingspan nice, height, standing reach, vertical and mobility are not.

How much vertical and how much mobility does Jokic have?


He’s got a nice reach but he’s a lot smaller than Jokic. And Jokic is one of one, no one else has his instincts/passing ability. Wendell Carter Jr is probably Sorber’s best comp if things click.

I'm just pointing out that lack of mobility and vert can be compensated for.
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Re: 202[emoji2[emoji2391]9[emoji2391]] NBA Draft Thread: Detroit Pick Edition 

Post#1011 » by KGdaBom » Fri Jun 20, 2025 4:08 pm

dschroeder01 wrote:
minimus wrote:
Norseman79 wrote:I'm not a sober fan. Wingspan nice, height, standing reach, vertical and mobility are not.

Yep, 6'11 Sorber would be in top-5. I also see some questions with how he was used in defense mainly as drop defender. I mean with such measurements he should be more willing to switch. Either way I think hands-eye coordination, positional awareness and IQ might be big swing skills for him. He also should continue to work on his body, I feel like losing 10-15 lbs and improving his stamina and strength would be beneficial

If the extra 2 inches came with more wingspan and reach, then sure, but why does where the top of his head is at matter for basketball? Some guys just have a shorter neck and I could care less. Sorber has the wingspan and reach of a center to go along with wide shoulders and overall massive frame.

You are correct that height based on the top of your head is irrelevant. Eye level matters for looking over opponents. Standing reach and vertical come into play for Shooting over opponents, blocking shots and getting rebounds. You all remember Minnesota basketball legend Randy Breuer. The top of his head was about 7'4" but he had about the longest forehead of any human I've ever seen. Eye level may have been 6"6"
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread: Detroit Pick Edition 

Post#1012 » by BlacJacMac » Fri Jun 20, 2025 4:33 pm

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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread: Detroit Pick Edition 

Post#1013 » by Klomp » Fri Jun 20, 2025 4:35 pm

Sorber is a very safe pick. I think at worst, he becomes what Gorgui Dieng was for us here. However, I also don't see the upside for him, especially in the current era. Is his upside any higher than Myles Turner, for example?! Maybe that's all we're looking for, which is fine. But it's part of all of the factors that need to be considered.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread: Detroit Pick Edition 

Post#1014 » by shangrila » Fri Jun 20, 2025 9:01 pm

Some Sorber info:



From Sam Vecenie's draft guide:

STRENGTHS:
● Has a terrific combination of length and strength for a center in the NBA. Stands 6 feet 9.25, which isn’t all that big for the position. However, he has a towering 7-foot-6 wingspan that gives him a solid 9-foot-1 standing reach. Combines that with power and the ability to play with force.
● Has a terrific feel for the game. Understands how to use leverage and how to use his body in the most impactful way that he can. Incredibly disruptive on defense with his reactions. Also sees the court well. Makes good decisions. Even the little things like his footwork and his understanding of how to roll into certain spaces with minimal amount of steps and wasted movement is terrific.
● That body work is key to Sorber’s offensive game. Understands how to move without the basketball well. Flexible through his hips for such a big individual. Does a great job of sealing defenders off with his frame. Uses minimal movements to maintain his positioning and leverage on cuts and in roll situations. Understands where to cut and how to time those cuts along the baseline. Because he doesn’t have a high center of gravity, he can move guys when he catches and puts his shoulder into them. Defenders tend to move backwards. Also excellent at sealing opposing players high and creating a beautiful target for his teammates to pass into.
● Excellent in ball screens. Not going to be the guy who skies above the rim and catches lobs often, but he has an excellent sense of timing and intelligence on his rolls. Great hands. Catches everything. No issues below or above his waist. No bobbles. Also catches in traffic and catches on the move. Presents a great target in short rolls for pocket passes. Opens up and sets up for the way he’s going to play after he receives the ball ahead of time. Handles the ball well for a player his size. Good on his gathers. Can hit back spins to counter defenders. Has really good balance and sharp decision-making skills. Processes the way defenders are playing him well and can figure out counters to play off them. Despite having a bigger body, navigates moving defenders well and has a nice variety of up fakes and hesitations on the interior to throw off the defense.
● Great finisher on the interior. Made 68.6 percent of his shots at the rim this season in half-court settings, which is a ridiculous number for someone who isn’t a particularly above-the-rim finisher. Hit 64.4 percent of his layups. Averaged less than one dunk per game. But has great contact balance through bumps and maintains his touch when he gets hit. Can both initiate contact as well as absorb it. Great footwork to maneuver around defenders. Most importantly, he finishes with both hands at a very high level. Was excellent in post situations. Will certainly be good enough as a post that you can’t comfortably switch guards onto him. If you do, he’ll use his frame, bury them deep and finish. Might be hard to switch anyone 6-foot-5 or shorter
onto him.
● One of my favorite passers among the big men in the class. Unselfish player who makes quick reads. Not quite an elite hub, but very good and can run all of the actions from out high. Excellent in dribble-handoffs. Can put the ball on the deck once to get to his guard, and can also reject and try to get downhill. Good timing in these circumstances. Will be a weapon there with how well he moves. Good at screening and rescreening, then short-rolling into tight areas around the foul line. Once he gets the ball, his eyes go up immediately and he’s looking for cutters around the rim to start.
● Great sense of how to find those open players. Can pass on the move. Good at creating angles to find his open teammates. Uses bounce passes well and puts good touch on the ball. Can drive and hit kickouts to corners and wings. If you double him, you’re in trouble. Good at hitting wraparound kickouts out beyond the 3-point line if he gets stuck on the interior. Also was excellent at playing out high at the top of the key and finding open teammates within different sets that Georgetown would run.
● Defensively, Sorber isn’t massive, but he’s just absolutely excellent with his lines and angles and knows how to use his length. Backpedals well. He’s a drop-coverage defender at around 6-foot-9, but he seems to have an advanced understanding of the scouting report ahead of time. He slides his feet well side-to-side and does an excellent job of keeping his hands high to cut off angles when defenders either try to attack him downhill or try to isolate him and force a switch. Does a good job playing cat-and-mouse between the ballhandler and the big. Has a very quiet movement style that doesn’t have a lot of jumpy motions. Rarely gets hit with pump fakes. Very good at walling up and using his size to cut off drivers. Has more ability to flip
his hips than most players this size and weight. As long as he doesn’t have to make sudden north-south movements, things tend to be good.
● Rim protection at the college level was good even though there are some translation questions at the NBA level. Averaged two blocks per game this year. Can block shots with both hands. Also showcases verticality without fouling. Averaged only 2.2 fouls per game in 31 minutes this year. Has good fundamentals, is good at timing his leap and is quite strong. Very difficult to gain any space when you go into his chest.
● Extremely reactive defender. Great hand activity that allows him to be a good playmaker on that end of the court. Excellent hand-eye coordination allows him to pile up blocks and steals. Averaged 1.5 steals per game. Rarely gambles, but because he’s so big and long and does a great job of keeping his hands extended, does an amazing job of just getting his hand to the ball and creating deflections. Also does a good job mirroring ballhandlers with his hands to frustrate them.

AREAS FOR IMPROVEMENT:
● Will be a touch undersized for a center in the NBA despite his length. That 9-foot-1 standing reach is a touch under average for a starting center. Not going to be overly athletic for the position given the height. Has some underrated pop but won’t have the ability to high-point the ball over particularly long players. Wasn’t a massive dunker and has to load up to access that vertical pop.
● Came into the combine very heavy at 262 pounds. He couldn’t do conditioning all that much before the event because of his foot injury and is carrying a bit of extra weight, but NBA evaluators are of two minds about the frame. Some scouts believe he will be able to drop weight and access even more athleticism. Others worry about how heavy he might get as he gets older. Sorber will need to be on top of his weight and conditioning as he ages.
● Footspeed will be the biggest question. It’s not fair to call him a lumberer, but he has some movements that require more of a load up than is normal. Not all that twitchy.
● Footspeed and heavy movement style become a bit of an issue when he has to get north-south on defense. Struggles to close out on shooters in scramble situations or in pick-and-pop situations. Very easy to drive and attack him because it’s hard for him to plant, stop his momentum, drop his hips and turn. Front foot gets attacked regularly. Was good enough in college to make up for it with his recovery length, but will be much harder to effectively do this in the NBA. Has some movements where it’s hard to envision him being great at this. Will need to work on getting lighter on his feet.
● At the rim, he also has minor worries even though he was effective on defense in college. Doesn’t elevate well. Extremely long, which will help, and he’s so broad that it will be hard for drivers to go through his chest. Against bigger, longer players he has less margin for error to truly contest in the way that better rim protectors do. I’d bet on him being average in this respect, not a standout.
● Offensively, there are some questions about how effective and efficient he’ll be as a scorer. Because he plays below the rim, it might be a bit harder for him to maintain that efficiency against the size and length he’ll come up against in the NBA. Will need to be elite with his touch. Shows great signs of that, having made 64 percent of his layups and 52 percent of his hook shots this year. But things will be harder at the next level. Might help him to add a push-shot floater.
● Despite being an excellent passer, he had a one-to-one assist-to-turnover ratio because he averaged 2.3 turnovers per game. Generally, these came just from being too aggressive with the ball. I’d rather try to rein in aggression than have to teach it, so I think this will be fine long-term. But while he’s very comfortable handling the ball for a big man, it’ll help him over the years to continue tightening his handle, too. Can get away from him just a bit at times.
● Not going to be much of a shot creator for himself outside of switch situations in the post. Great at play finishing and taking advantage of mismatch situations like four-on-threes when he can make passing reads. But likely won’t ever be a guy who dominates on the interior with his lack of height. Against starting bigs, he will be at a length disadvantage. Doesn’t quite have that Alperen Şengün-like level of balance and coordination to spin balletically around opposing players consistently even though his footwork is good. Great at navigating bodies when the defense is already bent but not great at creating separation and efficient offense.
● Not a shooter. Sorber attempted 37 3s this season and made just six of them. The jumper doesn’t look terrible, but the shot prep needs work for sure. Confident as a shooter and doesn’t hesitate after he decides to take them. Doesn’t look ready to take them often upon receipt of the ball. Seems like he has to get his feet organized later than most. Also, his release point varies. Sometimes he holds onto the ball too long. The shot can flatten out too much and end up on a straight line drive (even on some of the makes). Also willing to take long 2s. Made a few of those this season. Made 72 percent of his free throws this year, so I don’t think you can rule him out when it comes to shooting long-term. But it’s going to be a project that’ll take time,
and it’s not a skill you should expect from him.

SUMMARY: Sorber is a fascinating player. On some level, he looks like a relic of a past generation at 6-foot-9 with a bigger-bodied frame. He also lacks some degree of explosiveness that many bigs possess. And yet, he has a remarkably productive game that is very modern in its construction. He has a great natural feel for the game and excels at keeping advantages that guards create for him because of his passing on the move. His natural reactivity is also enticing, and I think there is some improvement potential with his frame. When you see him in person, he looks quite young and like he’s still growing into his body.

Here’s the other thing: He’s remarkably productive across the box score in a way that players his age never are. The only other high-major freshman or sophomore to average at least 14 points, eight rebounds, two assists, two blocks and 1.5 steals before Sorber did it this season, per Sports-Reference, was Chris Webber at Michigan. The easiest way to explain it is that he’s just one of those players who gets stuff done on the court with his length and impeccable hand-eye coordination. He’s a bit more of a project than a ready-made player, but there’s enough upside that I think he can develop into a starting center.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread: Detroit Pick Edition 

Post#1015 » by shangrila » Fri Jun 20, 2025 9:14 pm

Klomp wrote:Sorber is a very safe pick. I think at worst, he becomes what Gorgui Dieng was for us here. However, I also don't see the upside for him, especially in the current era. Is his upside any higher than Myles Turner, for example?! Maybe that's all we're looking for, which is fine. But it's part of all of the factors that need to be considered.

Myles Turner is a 10 year vet that's been a positive contributor nearly every season of his career. If you're upset about that being his upside you need to re-adjust your expectations for anyone we take at 17.

I love Sorber as a prospect, both for us and in general. He's solid right now in all the areas you want from a big, adds in a high BBIQ on both ends and enough positive indicators to believe in growth in his shooting and dribbling games. I mean, right now if he never improved he's probably a low-end starter/rotation guy for 10 years in the league assuming health. That's got value right there. But if he does improve then you might be looking at a high end starter and defensive anchor, and that's insanely valuable for this team if you're projecting the long term offence to revolve around Ant, Reid, McDaniels and then guys like Dillingham or TSJ.

The one wrinkle I'd throw in for our perspective is that the team looks to be heading down the path of a faster paced team. If that's the case, Sorber might not be the best fit for that. But that said there's maybe 2 bigs in our range that do fit that, and it isn't something Gobert is known for either, so it's probably a moot point.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread: Detroit Pick Edition 

Post#1016 » by Klomp » Fri Jun 20, 2025 9:18 pm

shangrila wrote:
Klomp wrote:Sorber is a very safe pick. I think at worst, he becomes what Gorgui Dieng was for us here. However, I also don't see the upside for him, especially in the current era. Is his upside any higher than Myles Turner, for example?! Maybe that's all we're looking for, which is fine. But it's part of all of the factors that need to be considered.

Myles Turner is a 10 year vet that's been a positive contributor nearly every season of his career. If you're upset about that being his upside you need to re-adjust your expectations for anyone we take at 17.

I love Sorber as a prospect, both for us and in general. He's solid right now in all the areas you want from a big, adds in a high BBIQ on both ends and enough positive indicators to believe in growth in his shooting and dribbling games. I mean, right now if he never improved he's probably a low-end starter/rotation guy for 10 years in the league assuming health. That's got value right there. But if he does improve then you might be looking at a high end starter and defensive anchor, and that's insanely valuable for this team if you're projecting the long term offence to revolve around Ant, Reid, McDaniels and then guys like Dillingham or TSJ.

That's fair. I never said that I was upset about that upside, but it's worth assessing what it is, wherever it is.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread: Detroit Pick Edition 

Post#1017 » by KGdaBom » Fri Jun 20, 2025 11:10 pm

Klomp wrote:
shangrila wrote:
Klomp wrote:Sorber is a very safe pick. I think at worst, he becomes what Gorgui Dieng was for us here. However, I also don't see the upside for him, especially in the current era. Is his upside any higher than Myles Turner, for example?! Maybe that's all we're looking for, which is fine. But it's part of all of the factors that need to be considered.

Myles Turner is a 10 year vet that's been a positive contributor nearly every season of his career. If you're upset about that being his upside you need to re-adjust your expectations for anyone we take at 17.

I love Sorber as a prospect, both for us and in general. He's solid right now in all the areas you want from a big, adds in a high BBIQ on both ends and enough positive indicators to believe in growth in his shooting and dribbling games. I mean, right now if he never improved he's probably a low-end starter/rotation guy for 10 years in the league assuming health. That's got value right there. But if he does improve then you might be looking at a high end starter and defensive anchor, and that's insanely valuable for this team if you're projecting the long term offence to revolve around Ant, Reid, McDaniels and then guys like Dillingham or TSJ.

That's fair. I never said that I was upset about that upside, but it's worth assessing what it is, wherever it is.

If Sorber=Miles Turner I'll be thrilled to have him.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread: Detroit Pick Edition 

Post#1018 » by Norseman79 » Sat Jun 21, 2025 12:04 am

KGdaBom wrote:
Klomp wrote:
shangrila wrote:Myles Turner is a 10 year vet that's been a positive contributor nearly every season of his career. If you're upset about that being his upside you need to re-adjust your expectations for anyone we take at 17.

I love Sorber as a prospect, both for us and in general. He's solid right now in all the areas you want from a big, adds in a high BBIQ on both ends and enough positive indicators to believe in growth in his shooting and dribbling games. I mean, right now if he never improved he's probably a low-end starter/rotation guy for 10 years in the league assuming health. That's got value right there. But if he does improve then you might be looking at a high end starter and defensive anchor, and that's insanely valuable for this team if you're projecting the long term offence to revolve around Ant, Reid, McDaniels and then guys like Dillingham or TSJ.

That's fair. I never said that I was upset about that upside, but it's worth assessing what it is, wherever it is.

If Sorber=Miles Turner I'll be thrilled to have him.


I would agree with this. And I am not sold on Sorber.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread: Detroit Pick Edition 

Post#1019 » by Norseman79 » Sat Jun 21, 2025 12:07 am

I'm not saying they're the same player, I just get Jahlil Okafor vibes
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread: Detroit Pick Edition 

Post#1020 » by Klomp » Sat Jun 21, 2025 12:19 am

KGdaBom wrote:
Klomp wrote:
shangrila wrote:Myles Turner is a 10 year vet that's been a positive contributor nearly every season of his career. If you're upset about that being his upside you need to re-adjust your expectations for anyone we take at 17.

I love Sorber as a prospect, both for us and in general. He's solid right now in all the areas you want from a big, adds in a high BBIQ on both ends and enough positive indicators to believe in growth in his shooting and dribbling games. I mean, right now if he never improved he's probably a low-end starter/rotation guy for 10 years in the league assuming health. That's got value right there. But if he does improve then you might be looking at a high end starter and defensive anchor, and that's insanely valuable for this team if you're projecting the long term offence to revolve around Ant, Reid, McDaniels and then guys like Dillingham or TSJ.

That's fair. I never said that I was upset about that upside, but it's worth assessing what it is, wherever it is.

If Sorber=Miles Turner I'll be thrilled to have him.

Well of course, but I'm just saying that's the highest I see his upside going. Realistically, I see more of a cross between Wendell Carter Jr and Gorgui Dieng.
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