Nets/Sixers/Bucks/Suns not quite there

[HotelVitale]

So the 76ers are giving up both the 3rd pick and Jared McCain for a old Kevin Durant and Cam Johnson? This is yet another trade where the 76ers are mostly paying to get off of PG contract, while also watering down their significant assets in order to do. This is a disgusting overpay for a trade that doesn't make this team a contender.

...
Unless your #3 pick comes in and is ready day 1 for a star-type role, I don't think they will be successful. Bringing a kid like that onto a vet team is how you get Wiseman/Moody/Kuminga/Darko etc.

Your big mistake here is thinking that any competent or reasonable GM would say 'you know we have two injured huge contracts, let's dump all of our pretty sweet young assets to go all in on them!'

It suck to not have one clear timeline at the moment, but the solution isn't to run recklessly from that and make bizarre moves to avoid it all costs. They'll have to check out Embiid and PG's health this season and then start aligning the future from there. Those are MAJOR question marks (esp Embiid) so you can't just go all in one way or another. Not sure why you think it's a solid gamble to make your team much older and more injury-prone while making your future beyond two seasons a complete barren wasteland, on the off chance all your old guys can stay healthy AND beat lots of other solid teams in the east.

Also if you honestly believe Wiseman and Darko didn't succeed because they got drafted by good teams, I don't know what to tell you.

[mlloyd10]

George is probably more cooked than post-Achilles Dame and has a worse contract, doesn’t move the needle at all anymore. No reason for the Bucks to do this.

Not trying to be a defensive Sixers fan but why do people think PG is 'cooked' now? He had one of his best seasons ever year before, and last season he didn't have any major injuries or anything. He had a couple lingering minor injuries but would've played most of the season if they weren't the sixers chasing the basement too. He definitely DP:Tanking for the last couple months.

Not arguing for this trade at all, but it seems like the majority of people went from cautiously optimistic about PG to 'what a fricking disaster, he's done.' I think he's a risky deal but last season didn't do anything in my eyes to make him more than a usual health gamble. If he's healthy he's going to be a nice two-way player who might be really good, but always a real chance he misses chunks and maybe even the PO.

I wouldn't say he's cooked at all, but just a very expensive role player at this point in his career

[JayMKE]

George is probably more cooked than post-Achilles Dame and has a worse contract, doesn’t move the needle at all anymore. No reason for the Bucks to do this.

Not trying to be a defensive Sixers fan but why do people think PG is 'cooked' now? He had one of his best seasons ever year before, and last season he didn't have any major injuries or anything. He had a couple lingering minor injuries but would've played most of the season if they weren't the sixers chasing the basement too. He definitely DP:Tanking for the last couple months.

Not arguing for this trade at all, but it seems like the majority of people went from cautiously optimistic about PG to 'what a fricking disaster, he's done.' I think he's a risky deal but last season didn't do anything in my eyes to make him more than a usual health gamble. If he's healthy he's going to be a nice two-way player who might be really good, but always a real chance he misses chunks and maybe even the PO.

Huge drop in production and efficiency, played 41 games & has not been reliable in this aspect for years other the outlier his last season in LA when he had to secure the bag, and is owed $150M over the next 3 seasons after age 35.

[HotelVitale]

I wouldn't say he's cooked at all, but just a very expensive role player at this point in his career

Sure, but a role player who's giving you like 20/5/5, playing defense, spreading the floor, and doing some secondary creation would be very valuable to many teams. That's what I mean.

My thing is why everyone's convinced that PG is a laughable washed up nothing. Seeme based on terrible vibes last season--on a total disaster team, with him having small lingering injuries--more than a real analysis of what he's likely to bring next couple seasons.

To be clear, I don't think he's a viable trade candidate now, at least not to all but a few teams rn.

George is probably more cooked than post-Achilles Dame and has a worse contract, doesn’t move the needle at all anymore. No reason for the Bucks to do this.

Not trying to be a defensive Sixers fan but why do people think PG is 'cooked' now? He had one of his best seasons ever year before, and last season he didn't have any major injuries or anything. He had a couple lingering minor injuries but would've played most of the season if they weren't the sixers chasing the basement too. He definitely DP:Tanking for the last couple months.

Not arguing for this trade at all, but it seems like the majority of people went from cautiously optimistic about PG to 'what a fricking disaster, he's done.' I think he's a risky deal but last season didn't do anything in my eyes to make him more than a usual health gamble. If he's healthy he's going to be a nice two-way player who might be really good, but always a real chance he misses chunks and maybe even the PO.

Huge drop in production and efficiency, played 41 games & has not been reliable in this aspect for years other the outlier his last season in LA when he had to secure the bag, and is owed $150M over the next 3 seasons after age 35.

His production had been almost the exact same from 2019 to 2024, and I don't think you actually believe he willed himself to greater health in 2024 to 'secure the bag.' Also last year like I said he could've definitely played much more--it wasn't a secret that the team told him to shut it down at some point after he was in and out of the lineup. And the pdouction could be a concern but he was also genuinely in a terrible situation last year; if you really think he just fell off a huge cliff from like June of 2024 to October 2024, I don't have much to counter with besides that sounding a little weird as an assumption.

I'm not arguing for PG being a good contract or anything, just saying that it doesn't make much sense to conclude that he's total trash now, instead of that he just had an injury-ish season on a disastrous team. That doesn't mean he's going to bounce back and be great for sure, just that it doesn't mean he's completely finished and washed up etc.

[djFan71]

I wouldn't say he's cooked at all, but just a very expensive role player at this point in his career

Sure, but a role player who's giving you like 20/5/5, playing defense, spreading the floor, and doing some secondary creation would be very valuable to many teams. That's what I mean.

My thing is why everyone's convinced that PG is a laughable washed up nothing. Seeme based on terrible vibes last season--on a total disaster team, with him having small lingering injuries--more than a real analysis of what he's likely to bring next couple seasons.

To be clear, I don't think he's a viable trade candidate now, at least not to all but a few teams rn.

Not trying to be a defensive Sixers fan but why do people think PG is 'cooked' now? He had one of his best seasons ever year before, and last season he didn't have any major injuries or anything. He had a couple lingering minor injuries but would've played most of the season if they weren't the sixers chasing the basement too. He definitely DP:Tanking for the last couple months.

Not arguing for this trade at all, but it seems like the majority of people went from cautiously optimistic about PG to 'what a fricking disaster, he's done.' I think he's a risky deal but last season didn't do anything in my eyes to make him more than a usual health gamble. If he's healthy he's going to be a nice two-way player who might be really good, but always a real chance he misses chunks and maybe even the PO.

Huge drop in production and efficiency, played 41 games & has not been reliable in this aspect for years other the outlier his last season in LA when he had to secure the bag, and is owed $150M over the next 3 seasons after age 35.

His production had been almost the exact same from 2019 to 2024, and I don't think you actually believe he willed himself to greater health in 2024 to 'secure the bag.' Also last year like I said he could've definitely played much more--it wasn't a secret that the team told him to shut it down at some point after he was in and out of the lineup. And the pdouction could be a concern but he was also genuinely in a terrible situation last year; if you really think he just fell off a huge cliff from like June of 2024 to October 2024, I don't have much to counter with besides that sounding a little weird as an assumption.

I'm not arguing for PG being a good contract or anything, just saying that it doesn't make much sense to conclude that he's total trash now, instead of that he just had an injury-ish season on a disastrous team. That doesn't mean he's going to bounce back and be great for sure, just that it doesn't mean he's completely finished and washed up etc.

I tend to agree. I expect a bounce back year from PG. He got to rest up while sitting for the tank and has probably also heard all the talk about being washed up. He’ll come back fresher and reenergized.

[nykballa2k4]

I
Finally, we have arrived at the Nets
Nets trade: Claxton, Cam Johnson
get Dame, Nick Richards, McCain, #3

The Nets are getting way too much here.

Philadelphia hangs up and blocks your number, which torches the whole idea anyway.

Yeah that part is bananas. Almost thought this whole trade was a lost sig bet with a Nets fan or something.

Seems like OP is sleeping on McCain some here, which is understandable. For people that weren't paying attention, McCain maybe seemed like he played like a solid role playing shooter or something, nice rookie who can be a rotation guy. Especially if you just glance at his #s. But that's cuz his season was so short and literally half of it was the first month when he barely played--as a starter he posted 24/3/4 on 60%+ TS, and it didn't seem like a fluke or anything. Not clearing out a space for him in the HOF like some Sixers fans but there were legit reasons to start dreaming big about him.

I Like McCain a decent amount, but I am not sold he is much more than someone like Simons or Cam Thomas. Short scoring guards are not the most difficult to find. Just looking at this draft Jace Richardson could be a similar player.
Granted McCain has already proven he belongs. Since Maxey is a big point guard, that lets you get away with a smaller 2-guard.
If he were the sticking point, I would be fine with taking him out. The point of the deal is the Nets wasting about 110M over the next 2 years (maybe recouping some if Dame come back).

[Jojothewhale]

Since Maxey is a big point guard, that lets you get away with a smaller 2-guard.

Oh now I see where all of this went wrong. He’s a small 2 who happens to be the lead initiator right now due to the disaster that was this roster. Like I said up thread, you ideally want a Dylan Harper style big lead Guard. Small 2 Guard is not complimentary at all. They already have that with McCain. If the fit was good, no one would be talking about any of this.

[HotelVitale]

The Nets are getting way too much here.

Philadelphia hangs up and blocks your number, which torches the whole idea anyway.

Yeah that part is bananas. Almost thought this whole trade was a lost sig bet with a Nets fan or something.

Seems like OP is sleeping on McCain some here, which is understandable. For people that weren't paying attention, McCain maybe seemed like he played like a solid role playing shooter or something, nice rookie who can be a rotation guy. Especially if you just glance at his #s. But that's cuz his season was so short and literally half of it was the first month when he barely played--as a starter he posted 24/3/4 on 60%+ TS, and it didn't seem like a fluke or anything. Not clearing out a space for him in the HOF like some Sixers fans but there were legit reasons to start dreaming big about him.

I Like McCain a decent amount, but I am not sold he is much more than someone like Simons or Cam Thomas. Short scoring guards are not the most difficult to find. Just looking at this draft Jace Richardson could be a similar player.
Granted McCain has already proven he belongs. Since Maxey is a big point guard, that lets you get away with a smaller 2-guard.
If he were the sticking point, I would be fine with taking him out. The point of the deal is the Nets wasting about 110M over the next 2 years (maybe recouping some if Dame come back).

I get what you're saying about him being a scoring combo guy but I think you're glossing over a lot to pigeonhole him as that. He was 20 and posting 24/3/4 within weeks of playing his first NBA minutes. He's also universally praised for his BBIQ, work ethic, etc, and he outplayed his teammates in college and ended up winning there, after being an underrated HS guy who won championships too. (He also doesn't play anything remotely like Cam Thomas, neither the chucking nor the weird attitude.)

I'm not saying he'll be a superstar but it was a very impressive debut and there are lots of reasons to be optimistic. Great off ball shooter who can also get wherever he wants on court and score and pass from all 3 levels, and uses a lot of craft and guile too. No one right now is going to want you to tag him trade value-wise as 'can score from the 2 but doesn't bring much else.'

[nykballa2k4]

Since Maxey is a big point guard, that lets you get away with a smaller 2-guard.

Oh now I see where all of this went wrong. He’s a small 2 who happens to be the lead initiator right now due to the disaster that was this roster. Like I said up thread, you ideally want a Dylan Harper style big lead Guard. Small 2 Guard is not complimentary at all. They already have that with McCain. If the fit was good, no one would be talking about any of this.

I mean, the whole point of my big trade was to give the Sixers a nice balanced lineup with Maxey and Grimes in the backcourt. One appealing reason to use #3 to onload PG is what you can get back. I do think you can move down and get role players.
For example, I think that PG and #3 to Nola for #7, CJ and Kelly is a decent deal.

[Jojothewhale]

I mean, the whole point of my big trade was to give the Sixers a nice balanced lineup with Maxey and Grimes in the backcourt. One appealing reason to use #3 to onload PG is what you can get back. I do think you can move down and get role players.
For example, I think that PG and #3 to Nola for #7, CJ and Kelly is a decent deal.

The bar for all of these deals is that it has to either beat the near term of a mild PG bounce back to good non-star or it has to modify the future post-Embiid core in a meaningful way. This like the OP accomplishes neither. It’s just moving stuff for the sake of it.

Hell, this one creates even more of a logjam of small Guards. How is an NBA team supposed to play all of Maxey, McCain, CJ, and Grimes real minutes? And maybe the 7th pick on top of it.

[nykballa2k4]

I mean, the whole point of my big trade was to give the Sixers a nice balanced lineup with Maxey and Grimes in the backcourt. One appealing reason to use #3 to onload PG is what you can get back. I do think you can move down and get role players.
For example, I think that PG and #3 to Nola for #7, CJ and Kelly is a decent deal.

The bar for all of these deals is that it has to either beat the near term of a mild PG bounce back to good non-star or it has to modify the future post-Embiid core in a meaningful way. This like the OP accomplishes neither. It’s just moving stuff for the sake of it. Hell, this one creates even more of a logjam of small Guards. How is an NBA team supposed to play all of Maxey, McCain, CJ, and Grimes real minutes? And maybe the 7th pick on top of it.

OP certainly does not because I am turning 2 small guards (#3 and McCain) into lanky forwards.
The goal of the team should be do what it takes to maximize Maxey's prime.

[Jojothewhale]

I mean, the whole point of my big trade was to give the Sixers a nice balanced lineup with Maxey and Grimes in the backcourt. One appealing reason to use #3 to onload PG is what you can get back. I do think you can move down and get role players.
For example, I think that PG and #3 to Nola for #7, CJ and Kelly is a decent deal.

The bar for all of these deals is that it has to either beat the near term of a mild PG bounce back to good non-star or it has to modify the future post-Embiid core in a meaningful way. This like the OP accomplishes neither. It’s just moving stuff for the sake of it. Hell, this one creates even more of a logjam of small Guards. How is an NBA team supposed to play all of Maxey, McCain, CJ, and Grimes real minutes? And maybe the 7th pick on top of it.

OP certainly does not because I am turning 2 small guards (#3 and McCain) into lanky forwards.
The goal of the team should be do what it takes to maximize Maxey's prime.

I think you are WILDLY overrating Maxey’s actual on court value and I’m a Sixers fan. They are utterly screwed if Embiid never returns to form and he’s their best player. The definition of a treadmill team.