Charles Barkley: 'There Are Levels to Greatness—Rings Matter!'"

[Rust_Cohle]

[bledredwine]

Of course they matter


Only one crowd will say otherwise, and it says something about their favorite player's struggles, who says the same thing!
Who can that be?

Please avoid bait posts. No one in the thread has disagreed with the premise and there's no reason to preemptively insult people. -b

[EH15]

It matters but NBA is the only league where the discourse is toxic and insufferable

McDavid just lost B2B Cup Finals but we aren't seeing daily diatribes.

[Iwasawitness]

Of course they matter


Only one crowd will say otherwise, and it says something about their favorite player's struggles, who says the same thing!
Who can that be?

Not LeBron fans, because they definitely agree that rings matter.

Nice bait attempt though. Next time come in with something that at least makes sense. But more importantly, keep letting him live rent free in your head.

[og15]

Charles is essentially just saying, "this is how it is, and you have to accept it", and it's perfectly fine for someone to take that stance if they want. Most of us do it in some way in relation to something in life. There's truth to what he says.

On the other hand, that doesn't necessarily mean, "and therefore those are good rules", but there is truth that, in the end, life isn't fair, basketball careers aren't fair. Not everyone will get championships, not everyone has equal circumstances. Guys who win multiple rings (especially even going to 3+), there's generally a reason related to their play, longevity and health that they won so much. When it comes to the 1 ring guys, there can be / are luck factors that has one guy at one and another at zero, that's just what it is, and of course it's not a situation of 2>1, 3>2, etc that of course would be the dumb way (but some people do it like that).

We've (the general we of course) been harping for some time that championships are the trump card, you get judged by championships, all this ___(insert other accomplishments)___ means nothing without a championship, so the other aspect is that we can't create ring culture, then get mad when players living in that culture say, "well I'm not going to allow fate to determine whether I get rings or not and get left off the table", and players say, "well I'm not going to kill myself for regular seasons when people will then say, but you didn't win a ring".

These things all go hand in hand, but I do find it funny / interesting when in general, we create a specific culture, then we complain about how people are living in that culture we created and don't realize that these are the unintended consequences. It's like how the generations of parents who raised a certain generation to be one way start complaining about how that generation is that way. Well, you (the general you of course) helped make them that way with how you parented them. Of course you didn't know it at the time, but critically looking back, you'll see it.

[Inigo Montoya]

He's not wrong.

[Primedeion]

Only LeBron stans disagree with this.

Please avoid baiting comments like this. No one in the thread has disagreed with the premise and there's no reason to preemptively insult people. -b

[UglyBugBall]

Of course they matter


Only one crowd will say otherwise, and it says something about their favorite player's struggles, who says the same thing!
Who can that be?

Not LeBron fans, because they definitely agree that rings matter.

Nice bait attempt though. Next time come in with something that at least makes sense. But more importantly, keep letting him live rent free in your head.

Lebron fans that have him ahead of Jordan don't believe rings matter. Now you can be a lebron fan that believes MJ was better, and that's fair enough, but not the norm.

[Iwasawitness]

Of course they matter


Only one crowd will say otherwise, and it says something about their favorite player's struggles, who says the same thing!
Who can that be?

Not LeBron fans, because they definitely agree that rings matter.

Nice bait attempt though. Next time come in with something that at least makes sense. But more importantly, keep letting him live rent free in your head.

Lebron fans that have him ahead of Jordan don't believe rings matter. Now you can be a lebron fan that believes MJ was better, and that's fair enough, but not the norm.

Yes, they definitely think rings matter. They just don't think they're the end all be all.

[og15]

Only LeBron stans disagree with this.

This seems like a false argument being made, not sure if that was the OP intention. First, Lebron is in that next level group that Charles is talking about, so why would Lebron super fans disagree? Maybe Stockton and Malone fans, or Barkley fans, or Ewing fans, but Lebron fans makes no sense.

Also, there's rarely anyone that says, "rings don't matter", so it's just wasteful discussion and the general strawman stuff if we're saying, "yea, take that person who says rings don't matter". What people differ in is how much value is placed on each individual ring, and how much rings matter. Rings mattering though is different from simply, let's just count up the rings and whomever wins is the best, and the reality is that even the people who try to do that in one situation don't unanimously agree that Bill Russell > ALL, so they themselves don't believe that.

[Raps in 4]

It would be cool if some nerd could develop a stat that calculates the probability that a team should have won a title in any given year (based on the strength of the individual players and the level of competition faced). It would be a retroactive stat for comparing legacies. Or maybe a stat like that already exists.

[tsherkin]

It would be cool if some nerd could develop a stat that calculates the probability that a team should have won a title in any given year (based on the strength of the individual players and the level of competition faced). It would be a retroactive stat for comparing legacies. Or maybe a stat like that already exists.

That's basically CORP from Thinking Basketball, no? Championships Over Replacement Player?

[DCasey91]

It matters but NBA is the only league where the discourse is toxic and insufferable

McDavid just lost B2B Cup Finals but we aren't seeing daily diatribes.

It is true and the oldheads in the NBA do no favours to anyone with the ring culture, among being highly critical of the newer generation (thought that's slowly changing) as well completely dismissing/acknowledging basketball played pre 70's.

Legitimately in every sport I've watched (I watch way too much btw) they absolutely herald their forefathers of the game. Commentators and boxing legends still talk about the golden 70's and HWs pre 60's/60's some of your favourite boxers have named their best boxer which the normal crowd wouldn't have a clue about.

Same with tennis, nfl, football, cricket, rugby, swimming, baseball those cultures have massive massive respect that came before

With basketball not so much.

My own personal thought is that the head of the snake being only 5x5 has so much influence on a game to game circumstance I do stop short of calling a pure team sport compared to others. In fact it is on the lower end of a team sport imo. I'll always say if your not building voltron your doing it wrong.

I think that's why they continue to say rings matter alot because your first player is the be end and end all.

[OdomFan]

Rings do matter. That's what every team spends years building towards. To put together the right roster, and the right coaching staff to build a winner. All to bring home a trophy, and rings.

It takes a great leader to be able to do their part and build a great style of winning basketball. Barkley didn't get the ring but he had everything it took to win one with the Phoenix Suns. If not for Jordan he'd have one. It is what it is.

[DCasey91]

Rings do matter. That's what every team spends years building towards. To put together the right roster, and the right coaching staff to build a winner. All to bring home a trophy, and rings.

It takes a great leader to be able to do their part and build a great style of winning basketball. Barkley didn't get the ring but he had everything it took to win one with the Phoenix Suns. If not for Jordan he'd have one. It is what it is.

I would honestly say Sun's among a couple teams were right there offensively championship wise but the Suns biggest issue was team defence they were well off it probably the biggest reason why they faulted in post season play before and after 93

[ScrantonBulls]

Only LeBron stans disagree with this.

This seems like a false argument being made, not sure if that was the OP intention. First, Lebron is in that next level group that Charles is talking about, so why would Lebron super fans disagree? Maybe Stockton and Malone fans, or Barkley fans, or Ewing fans, but Lebron fans makes no sense.

Also, there's rarely anyone that says, "rings don't matter", so it's just wasteful discussion and the general strawman stuff if we're saying, "yea, take that person who says rings don't matter". What people differ in is how much value is placed on each individual ring, and how much rings matter. Rings mattering though is different from simply, let's just count up the rings and whomever wins is the best, and the reality is that even the people who try to do that in one situation don't unanimously agree that Bill Russell > ALL, so they themselves don't believe that.

It is.

[tsherkin]

Only LeBron stans disagree with this.

This seems like a false argument being made, not sure if that was the OP intention. First, Lebron is in that next level group that Charles is talking about, so why would Lebron super fans disagree? Maybe Stockton and Malone fans, or Barkley fans, or Ewing fans, but Lebron fans makes no sense.

Also, there's rarely anyone that says, "rings don't matter", so it's just wasteful discussion and the general strawman stuff if we're saying, "yea, take that person who says rings don't matter". What people differ in is how much value is placed on each individual ring, and how much rings matter. Rings mattering though is different from simply, let's just count up the rings and whomever wins is the best, and the reality is that even the people who try to do that in one situation don't unanimously agree that Bill Russell > ALL, so they themselves don't believe that.

It is. OP has a less than stellar track record in LeBron debates, and that's putting it lightly. LeBron thoroughly triggers him to the point where he lets emotions get in the way of his evaluation of LeBron. He was hoping to get an easy W with this thread.

Scranton, I don't think this is the right place to be popping off only about a poster and not about the content, man. Let's stick to what Chuck said, yeah?

[zimpy27]

I think LeBron and Kareem are in the top tier because they won rings in more than 2 different teams.

They proved they were more than the sons of a wealthy family (great coach, teammates, etc), they were the common denominator.

[LakerLegend]

I think LeBron and Kareem are in the top tier because they won rings in more than 2 different teams.

They proved they were more than the sons of a wealthy family (great coach, teammates, etc), they were the common denominator.

If anything that’s a disqualifier for LeBron because he went around deliberately constructing super teams like a mercenary. Not to mention one is a lockout chip and the other is the bubble chip.

[ScrantonBulls]

This seems like a false argument being made, not sure if that was the OP intention. First, Lebron is in that next level group that Charles is talking about, so why would Lebron super fans disagree? Maybe Stockton and Malone fans, or Barkley fans, or Ewing fans, but Lebron fans makes no sense.

Also, there's rarely anyone that says, "rings don't matter", so it's just wasteful discussion and the general strawman stuff if we're saying, "yea, take that person who says rings don't matter". What people differ in is how much value is placed on each individual ring, and how much rings matter. Rings mattering though is different from simply, let's just count up the rings and whomever wins is the best, and the reality is that even the people who try to do that in one situation don't unanimously agree that Bill Russell > ALL, so they themselves don't believe that.

It is. OP has a less than stellar track record in LeBron debates, and that's putting it lightly. LeBron thoroughly triggers him to the point where he lets emotions get in the way of his evaluation of LeBron. He was hoping to get an easy W with this thread.

Scranton, I don't think this is the right place to be popping off only about a poster and not about the content, man. Let's stick to what Chuck said, yeah?

Fine fine tsherkin, il edit because I respect you. But let's be honest, we all know the reason he made this thread. It's obvious.