Charles Barkley: 'There Are Levels to Greatness—Rings Matter!'"

[tsherkin]

It is. OP has a less than stellar track record in LeBron debates, and that's putting it lightly. LeBron thoroughly triggers him to the point where he lets emotions get in the way of his evaluation of LeBron. He was hoping to get an easy W with this thread.

Scranton, I don't think this is the right place to be popping off only about a poster and not about the content, man. Let's stick to what Chuck said, yeah?

Fine fine tsherkin, il edit because I respect you. But let's be honest, we all know the reason he made this thread. It's obvious.

I appreciate it. Next time, just report it and make it the mods' problem. That's what they're for, making those decisions.

[dkb964]

It matters but NBA is the only league where the discourse is toxic and insufferable

McDavid just lost B2B Cup Finals but we aren't seeing daily diatribes.

Hockey has goalies who are even more important then the teams best player. There is not an equivalent to that in basketball. I do not watch hockey but by looking at the final scores in most games the Oilers were letting in a lot of goals. I imagine the goalie played poorly. That is no fault of McDavid.

[jc23]

i have seen enough from lebron and klutch over the years to know gaslighting from them when i see it. they put this type of stuff out (the lebron nash podcast) with an intention; which in this case is to change the narrative so lebron can creep closer to being the GOAT. rings matter in that discussion

[warriorschamps]

Of course rings matter. I've always said I've felt companies like NIKE and other companies hate the concept of rings. Why? They want to manufacture superstars. Basically they just want to hype up guys with stats.

But stats by themselves mean nothing. Anybody in the NBA given a big enough role can put up stats especially on a bad team.

Also I hate the idea of people saying championships are a team accomplishment. Sure it is but so is winning an MVP, leading the lead in scoring, etc. You usually need good teammates and coaches for those things. What did guys like Hakeem Olajuwon say when he won MVP. I know it has my name on it but its really a team award. You could average 50 points a game but if you only win 25 games you probably aren't going to win MVP.

[warriorschamps]

This Lebron Youtube critic went hog wild against him for saying ring culture is weird.

Watch on YouTube

[tsherkin]

This Lebron critic went hog wild against him for saying ring culture is weird.

Watch on YouTube

Lebron could make a donation to a charity and someone would find a reason to bitch about it and attack his legacy. It's faintly ridiculous.

[Effigy]

The honest truth is rings DON'T matter. Nobody wins a title by themselves, they can only win a ring if they have enough help. We think of Patrick Ewing as a guy who couldn't get it done, but in game 6 of the 94 finals, John Starks missed a fairly easy shot that if he hit it, the Knicks would have won and now all of a sudden Patrick Ewing is a champion and a winner. Because of something John Starks did.

If Lebron never left Cleveland he probably would have won one ring at best, or none at all and he wouldn't be considered a top 2 player of all time, simply because he never chose to stack the deck and jump from loaded team to loaded team. But he'd be the exact same player either way.

Ring counting is the crutch of the lazy and unknowledgeable.

[Iwasawitness]

I think LeBron and Kareem are in the top tier because they won rings in more than 2 different teams.

They proved they were more than the sons of a wealthy family (great coach, teammates, etc), they were the common denominator.

If anything that’s a disqualifier for LeBron because he went around deliberately constructing super teams like a mercenary. Not to mention one is a lockout chip and the other is the bubble chip.

Going to different teams is a lot harder than staying on one team and getting the pieces you need to win. And why does one being a lockout chip matter?

[tsherkin]

If anything that’s a disqualifier for LeBron because he went around deliberately constructing super teams like a mercenary. Not to mention one is a lockout chip and the other is the bubble chip.

Rings are rings. His team couldn't build good enough squads the way other franchises did, so he found the appropriate help he needed.

Nothing wrong with that, exercising his rights in free agency. Complaining about that doesn't make a lick of sense.

[syrus3]

LeSteroid couldn’t become The Man so now he goes on podcasts and tries to change the narrative. He’s been lying for so long that I’m not even sure he knows what reality is.

[MavsDirk41]

Rings are not the end all or Kobe would have a serious claim for the goat. But they are important obviously and cannot be overlooked when comparing the all time greats against each other. Winning numerous championships and creating a dynasty with the team that drafted you like Jordan, Duncan, Russell, Magic for example is the most impressive thing a player can do imo.

[Hair Jordan]

Of course rings matter, especially in the NBA. It’s not like football where guys play offense or defense but not both. You really can’t hold it against a guy like Dan Marino for not winning Super Bowls when the Dolphins defense and running game was always subpar. Basketball is different. Players play offense and defense and truly transcendent players can influence the outcome of a game more than they can in football or baseball. You can be an all time guy and still not win a ring or multiple rings (Baylor, Oscar, West, Erving, Barkley, Ewing, Karl Malone, Giannis). However, when you’re talking about GOAT level players (Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Jordan, Olajuwon, Shaq, Duncan, Lebron) - it matters. A lot. Lebron is being disingenuous when he suggests rings don’t matter most. He’s obviously trying to change the narrative since he knows he won’t catch Jordan or Kareem or even Magic or Kobe in ring count. He’s an insecure, whiny, excuse making overdog. That’s why he earns so much hate.

[Patches Perry]

The problem with "ring culture" is nobody can be consistent with it as a criteria for greatness and the extent to which it matters changes arbitrarily depending on how good you believe the player is.

To me, they are team achievements which can serve as individual decorations. They obviously make a career resume look better, but they don't indicate a whole lot about the players ability.

[Lalouie]

i don't know when charles said this, but if it's recent, say within the last few days,,,he might be responding to the irrepressible LEBRON JAMES who just recently(was it with steve nash?) pulled the same ole "lebronBS" when he tried to downplay the importance of rings.

sas made a great retort on espn and it was exactly what i thought when i heard this lebron nonsense. since the beginning of time lebron has always had a goal to mine for rings. he paved the road to make that goal a reality

and if there's anyone of MANY who understands the importance of rings the list of greats who don't have one is several miles long IN ALL SPORTS

[zimpy27]

I think LeBron and Kareem are in the top tier because they won rings in more than 2 different teams.

They proved they were more than the sons of a wealthy family (great coach, teammates, etc), they were the common denominator.

If anything that’s a disqualifier for LeBron because he went around deliberately constructing super teams like a mercenary. Not to mention one is a lockout chip and the other is the bubble chip.

I don't think you understand what a mercenary is, they don't construct things, they come to the pre-constructed.

LeBron did build 3 championship teams. That's exactly what puts him up top. The fact that you think it's easy to do is the fallacy here. No one else has ever done it.

[MavsDirk41]

I think LeBron and Kareem are in the top tier because they won rings in more than 2 different teams.

They proved they were more than the sons of a wealthy family (great coach, teammates, etc), they were the common denominator.

If anything that’s a disqualifier for LeBron because he went around deliberately constructing super teams like a mercenary. Not to mention one is a lockout chip and the other is the bubble chip.

I don't think you understand what a mercenary is, they don't construct things, they come to the pre-constructed.

LeBron did build 3 championship teams. That's exactly what puts him up top. The fact that you think it's easy to do is the fallacy here. No one else has ever done it.

Russell has 11 championships
Jordan has 2 3 peats

Both are more impressive than teaming up with Wade and Bosh in Miami and Love and Irving in Cleveland to win.

[Lalouie]

The honest truth is rings DON'T matter. Nobody wins a title by themselves, they can only win a ring if they have enough help. We think of Patrick Ewing as a guy who couldn't get it done, but in game 6 of the 94 finals, John Starks missed a fairly easy shot that if he hit it, the Knicks would have won and now all of a sudden Patrick Ewing is a champion and a winner. Because of something John Starks did.

If Lebron never left Cleveland he probably would have won one ring at best, or none at all and he wouldn't be considered a top 2 player of all time, simply because he never chose to stack the deck and jump from loaded team to loaded team. But he'd be the exact same player either way.

Ring counting is the crutch of the lazy and unknowledgeable.

tell that to all the goats in the lounge. you don't get to enter the room and chat unless you have the bling,,and i'm pretty they're knowledgeable. and oh btw we're talking about two things here....there's the GREAT ROOM that's the lobby most gather in, and there's the GOAT ROOM, that's the room those guys can't gain entry to

[LakerLegend]

LeSteroid couldn’t become The Man so now he goes on podcasts and tries to change the narrative. He’s been lying for so long that I’m not even sure he knows what reality is.

I sawn an article that said if rings don’t matter to LeBron then why did he go ring chasing around the league

[zimpy27]

If anything that’s a disqualifier for LeBron because he went around deliberately constructing super teams like a mercenary. Not to mention one is a lockout chip and the other is the bubble chip.

I don't think you understand what a mercenary is, they don't construct things, they come to the pre-constructed.

LeBron did build 3 championship teams. That's exactly what puts him up top. The fact that you think it's easy to do is the fallacy here. No one else has ever done it.

Russell has 11 championships
Jordan has 2 3 peats

Both are more impressive than teaming up with Wade and Bosh in Miami and Love and Irving in Cleveland to win.

They aren't though. They are amazing team feats for sure. The best ever team feats.

They had stacked teams under arguably the 2 best coaches ever. They spammed what worked over and over. It is a huge team feat to be healthy season after season like that.


It's just not as impressive an individual feat as what LeBron did. All we know is that Jordan managed to make it work in one specific way with the GOAT coach and stacked teams. We already saw Jordan with different coaches and less stacked teams, struggle town of he even managed to get to the playoffs.

[LakerLegend]

I don't think you understand what a mercenary is, they don't construct things, they come to the pre-constructed.

LeBron did build 3 championship teams. That's exactly what puts him up top. The fact that you think it's easy to do is the fallacy here. No one else has ever done it.

Russell has 11 championships
Jordan has 2 3 peats

Both are more impressive than teaming up with Wade and Bosh in Miami and Love and Irving in Cleveland to win.

They aren't though. They are amazing team feats for sure. The best ever team feats.

They had stacked teams under arguably the 2 best coaches ever. They spammed what worked over and over. It is a huge team feat to be healthy season after season like that.


It's just not as impressive an individual feat as what LeBron did. All we know is that Jordan managed to make it work in one specific way with the GOAT coach and stacked teams. We already saw Jordan with different coaches and less stacked teams, struggle town of he even managed to get to the playoffs.

Nothing Jordan ever did is as big of a failure as the 2011 finals. Lebron also never won anything before forming super teams.