Top 10 peaks in today's league, only using players drafted before 2000

[Tomtolbert]

What do you predict would be the top 10 peaks (or 5 if easier) among players drafted before 2000, if their peak versions (or whichever version you think would be be best suited for today's league) were transported to 2025? Let's say they would have a year to adjust to the current league.

[DCasey91]

Jordan - Better version of SGA. Pretty much self explanatory, more open lanes, better utilisation of off ball C&S 3, etc etc. Really really easy. Big difference and it is something to consider he would comfortably have 2x direct matchups on him than in the 90's so it's something to think about. But even still his speed alone is frightening. Quickest most dexterous guard and its not close to being close. He was too quick for everybody then and he'd still be too quick now. But yes he's fav set up move is a travel 100% and is unguard able yet he still did that move way better than everyone else. Players today are nowhere near him when doing that said move. Try it in pick-up you wouldn't get away with it but it legit puts the defenders in all sorts because the brain already checks off well the dude has already moved his right or left foot well across.

Kareem - Competing with Jokic offensively as a pure scorer but stands to reason as not quite the all round offensive hub. Tops out around 2nd best center defender in comp which would put him over Jokic.

Shaq - Would change the game, reverse Curry, pace league wide would slow down. I know hack a Shaq and all that but yeah good luck to anyone against Magic or Lakers Shaq. Better facilitator than Duncan imo. If Jokic can win today obviously Peak Shaq would. Way better rim protector/deterrent which is Jokic's biggest weakness. Games like before would be very icky to call. In reality Shaq is closer to 3/1 fouls that should have gone to him. I'm big on the Shaq bandwagon as I keep reviewing film. Most doubled and tripled team player of all time because that's literally the only way defensively that had to happen.

Bird - Best PORT. 86 Bird in fact most versions of Bird is more athletic and well rounded than Luka. I don't think stats at all truly capture his worth. Dude legit does everything at a very very high clip. Fantastic help defender, unbelievable reflexes too. Like if Tatum can lead an all time team today there's zero doubt in mind that Bird would do the same thing just look better doing it... because he is better lol

Hakeem - Rudy T played 4 out modern style he is the progenitor for small ball or what is played today. Now with upgrades. In comparison Shaq teams ran more defensively orientated but with Hakeem you can go more offensively slanted but either or works. I honestly think the team would have looked better if Horry had a bigger role on ball which I've mentioned before but today a Hakeem led team has no issues on that. Better than Giannis because he's alot less exposed to weakness

Duncan - Why I have Duncan lower than Shaq or Hakeem. I do think today the two others would be more beneficial in their peak with how teams are run. As great as the Spurs were not to long ago in 14' Hakeem and Shaq never had as goated of a system to play around. Earlier than that of course peak wise I'm lower on Duncan's facilitating than others

Magic - Huge PG. Check. I mean it's Magic.

Wilt - I find him overrated now. All the film I have screams to me while he was physically so much better than everyone else his skillet and footwork isn't close to thr bigs later on. Don't get me started on eras when there was fantastic exponents back in his time. Petitt, Jones, West just off the head. His footwork just isn't there. Defensively though wholeheartedly that's where his primary value lies.

That's the 8 that should be automatic in some order then it gets hazy. Could have West, Oscar, DROB, Dirk, Kobe, Barkley etc. more names but don't have a strong feeling one way or another.

[tsherkin]

most versions of Bird is more athletic and well rounded than Luka.

Have seen literally nothing to suggest this, though...

[OhayoKD]

most versions of Bird is more athletic and well rounded than Luka.

Have seen literally nothing to suggest this, though...

Bird is a much worse athlete actually.

[eminence]

Don't think elite ball-handlers pre-Magic will really have a chance to adapt enough to the perimeter skillsets needed (and can't move inside like Magic can). Working down from #1.

#1 - KG - Billionare Mobley.
#2 - Hakeem - Think he'd have to adjust his game a bit more than KG and doesn't have the offensive skill ceiling, but top tier physical tools for what I want from my modern bigs and more than enough skill/coordination.
#3 - Duncan - Rudyish D + offensive competency (well above that really) is absolutely deadly. Bit more faith in the guys who are a step above mobility/coordination wise.
#4 - Nash - Taking him as the top offensive threat pretty cleanly, with the example of guys like Steph/Harden he/coaches would be more comfortable scaling up his scoring when needed (not to those levels, but above Nash as he was), and probably be the best offensive player in the league.
#5 - Magic - A bigger range than most imo depending on if he could develop a workable shot off the dribble from deep. Even if he can't we could play him as a mini-Joker and he'd still be absolutely excellent.
#6 - MJ - Poor mans SGA (with only 1 year to adapt) is still really damn good. Better athlete overall gives him some impact avenues on defense in particular that SGA can't take (stronger for switching, could offer some Wade style help rim protection).
#7 - Kobe - Could be an easy flip above MJ, depends how quickly you think the talent gap overcomes the skill preparedness gap.
#8 - Dirk - Fairly similar to what he was, not a lot to update here. Rich mans KAT.
#9 - Robinson - Don't think he has the natural understanding of the bigs above him and wouldn't adjust as well on either end, but he's still an absolutely top tier athlete with above average skill. Hardens kind of bitter quote about Giannis held a bit of truth. It's nice to be big and athletic.
#10 - Shaq - Much of the above with much less defensive understanding/effort.

HMs - Manu, McGrady, Reggie, Pippen, Barkley, Bird, KAJ, Wilt, Russell

Probably missed somebody, pretty heavy advantage to more modern guys with only 1 year to adapt.

[Ol Roy]

most versions of Bird is more athletic and well rounded than Luka.

Have seen literally nothing to suggest this, though...

Bird is a much worse athlete actually.

Luka seems to have more raw athletic ability that he's squandered with his diet, whereas Bird was a high-motor talent maximizer.

[DCasey91]

most versions of Bird is more athletic and well rounded than Luka.

Have seen literally nothing to suggest this, though...

Bird is a much worse athlete actually.

Not he's not that's plain wrong. It's like people don't actually watch these guys and think there opinion is right.

Bird is more athletic than Luka pretty simple if you don't understand this than you don't know athleticism

[DCasey91]

Nnnquote="tsherkin"]

most versions of Bird is more athletic and well roundkd than Luka.

Pnn
Have seen lit5erally nothing to suggest this, though...[/quote]

Better dexterity and reflexes (luka is fantastic, Bird is all time), quicker across the floor, Unquotehhhhmm, motor

I 00mmean it's like9o people don't actually watch film and look at different things.... which could honestly be the caseh7

Bird was 29 in 86 and still more applicable than Luka outside of his rookie year which duh Bird is still more athletic because strength alone.

Really you think Luka is more athletic than Bird?

Be honest is Luka doing that rebound layup effortlessly that Bird did of his miss jumpsuit? You know which he did... **** no

[DCasey91]

most versions of Bird is more athletic and well rounded than Luka.

Have seen literally nothing to suggest this, though...

Bird is a much worse athlete actually.

Feel free to our own opinion as to time when I say this, you are completely wrong and blind

[tsherkin]

Better dexterity and reflexes (luka is fantastic, Bird is all time), quicker across the floor, Unquotehhhhmm, motor

Not quicker end to end or laterally, that's for sure. Coordination doesn't look better. Leaping doesn't look better. Wasn't stronger. Reflexes are worth a debate, Bird's perception and anticipation were pretty amazing.

Really you think Luka is more athletic than Bird?

100%.

[OhayoKD]

Have seen literally nothing to suggest this, though...

Bird is a much worse athlete actually.

Feel free to our own opinion as to time when I say this, you are completely wrong and blind

Sadly I am cursed with eyesight; and with it, a clarity clear as crystal that Franz Wagner is a more appropriate comparison

[TheGOATRises007]

Luka is probably more athletic than Bird.

But comparing Bird to Franz Wagner is beyond egregious.

[TheGOATRises007]

Don't think elite ball-handlers pre-Magic will really have a chance to adapt enough to the perimeter skillsets needed (and can't move inside like Magic can). Working down from #1.

#1 - KG - Billionare Mobley.
#2 - Hakeem - Think he'd have to adjust his game a bit more than KG and doesn't have the offensive skill ceiling, but top tier physical tools for what I want from my modern bigs and more than enough skill/coordination.
#3 - Duncan - Rudyish D + offensive competency (well above that really) is absolutely deadly. Bit more faith in the guys who are a step above mobility/coordination wise.
#4 - Nash - Taking him as the top offensive threat pretty cleanly, with the example of guys like Steph/Harden he/coaches would be more comfortable scaling up his scoring when needed (not to those levels, but above Nash as he was), and probably be the best offensive player in the league.
#5 - Magic - A bigger range than most imo depending on if he could develop a workable shot off the dribble from deep. Even if he can't we could play him as a mini-Joker and he'd still be absolutely excellent.
#6 - MJ - Poor mans SGA (with only 1 year to adapt) is still really damn good. Better athlete overall gives him some impact avenues on defense in particular that SGA can't take (stronger for switching, could offer some Wade style help rim protection).
#7 - Kobe - Could be an easy flip above MJ, depends how quickly you think the talent gap overcomes the skill preparedness gap.
#8 - Dirk - Fairly similar to what he was, not a lot to update here. Rich mans KAT.
#9 - Robinson - Don't think he has the natural understanding of the bigs above him and wouldn't adjust as well on either end, but he's still an absolutely top tier athlete with above average skill. Hardens kind of bitter quote about Giannis held a bit of truth. It's nice to be big and athletic.
#10 - Shaq - Much of the above with much less defensive understanding/effort.

HMs - Manu, McGrady, Reggie, Pippen, Barkley, Bird, KAJ, Wilt, Russell

Probably missed somebody, pretty heavy advantage to more modern guys with only 1 year to adapt.

What's the justification for Nash being 4th when his defense likely gets even more exposed today? Anything he gains offensively from volume increase is likely off-set by his defensive frailties being more problematic in the pace and space of today's game.

[eminence]

What's the justification for Nash being 4th when his defense likely gets even more exposed today? Anything he gains offensively from volume increase is likely off-set by his defensive frailties being more problematic in the pace and space of today's game.

Fair question - So, I don't think offenses of today are better at exploiting particularly weak defenders than offenses of the past. Defensive strategies for helping/hiding certain players have if anything outpaced weak point targeting.

Trae Young is about as fundamentally bad of big minute defender as we've seen - small, weak, huge offensive load, low effort, seemingly kinda bad instincts when he does try. And he still generally grades out as equal impact-wise to the worst defenders of the early-mid 00's era.

And I don't have Nash as nearly as weak a defender as that. If anything his defensive 'strengths' - decent effort and mobility are more rewarded now.

[lessthanjake]

I think #1 would be Jordan. He’d basically just be a better version of SGA. On that comparison, FWIW prior to the 3PT line being moved in, Jordan shot 35.2% from three overall in the playoffs, while shooting threes at higher volume in the playoffs than during the regular season. Meanwhile, he shot similarly well or better in the regular season in the years that he actually shot threes with any real volume (37.6% and 35.2% in the two regular seasons he shot threes with any real volume, leaving aside the years the three-point-line was closer). Basically, Jordan shot the three just fine when he actually shot it a decent amount. This is really not particularly different from SGA. In fact, SGA is shooting 29.7% from three in these playoffs, and has shot 36.0% from three in RS + Playoffs combined this year. And yet SGA was MVP this year, led his team to an incredible regular season, had historically great impact metric data, and has been the best player in the Finals.

I don’t have a full ranking beyond that—I’d have to spend a lot of time thinking about it in order to have any confidence in an exact ranking. But I do think people are underrating Magic. His three-point-shooting motion wouldn’t really allow for a lot of off-the-dribble threes (unless he changed it, but that seems ambitious for one year of prep). But I think he could play similar to Jokic offensively and be extremely effective. There’s certainly things he wouldn’t do as well as Jokic. He wouldn’t have Jokic’s offensive rebounding. He wouldn’t get the same value on screens as Jokic. He wouldn’t be as physically imposing in the post as Jokic (though you couldn’t guard him with guys of the same size, so maybe this evens out). And he didn’t quite have Jokic’s ridiculous touch at floater range. But he’d run fast breaks better and be better as a pick-and-roll ball-handler (though this is where the lack of a good off-the-dribble three would limit him some). I don’t think Magic would be better than Jokic offensively, but he’d probably be close.