2025 Draft prospects - thread 3

[nomorezorro]

Am I missing something on Rasheer Fleming? I don't see him mentioned enough.

consensus seems to be trending toward him being a late first guy. probably a combination of things contributing to that — older prospect, small school, questions about whether the shot is legit, questions about shot creation ability against nba level talent

sam vecenie has him ranked as his #32 prospect and he's really hammered home that he thinks fleming's processing is a big weakness on both sides of the ball:




as someone who has liked fleming, i didn't clock the processing stuff in any of the early things i read/watched about him, and the questions about his defense in particular have given me some pause, since i assumed that would be a strength of his.

but at the same time, the conclusion of vecenie's writeup is basically "i don't think he's cut out to be a wing in the league but he might work as a big," and like...yeah, that's what i assumed all along? nothing about his size/athletic profile or the way he was used in college suggests wing to me; he's very obviously a 4/5 whose best long-term role could very well be at center. so i think a lot of the skepticism about him might be tied to people just misevaluating the fundamental type of player he is (in my eyes, at least).

i think 12 would be a pretty major overdraft if the latest buzz about him accurately reflects what the league thinks about him. but as i've mentioned before, i'd be all for making a move to grab him if he's still available after 20 or so.

[drosestruts]

https://youtu.be/s2o3B2MWWM4?si=VtDgtPUJ00zUl7jC

Didn’t know Clifford could pass!

24 years old hurts him but he has improved and the work shows.

What can't he do. But honestly we need to stop undervaluing older players - Clifford's growth year by year should be viewed as a positive, this is what you want to see if a young player. I'm also not sure why people think he'd be done.

He's one of the best pick and roll players in all of college

He's a better pull up shoother than Tre Johnson, Ace Bailey, and KJ

He finishes at the rim amongt the best in the nation

He's more than just good at things, there's several areas where he excels.

[Jcool0]

https://youtu.be/s2o3B2MWWM4?si=VtDgtPUJ00zUl7jC

Didn’t know Clifford could pass!

24 years old hurts him but he has improved and the work shows.

What can't he do. But honestly we need to stop undervaluing older players - Clifford's growth year by year should be viewed as a positive, this is what you want to see if a young player. I'm also not sure why people think he'd be done.

He's one of the best pick and roll players in all of college

He's a better pull up shoother than Tre Johnson, Ace Bailey, and KJ

He finishes at the rim amongt the best in the nation

He's more than just good at things, there's several areas where he excels.

I didn't see any growth till he left Colorado.

[drosestruts]

https://youtu.be/s2o3B2MWWM4?si=VtDgtPUJ00zUl7jC

Didn’t know Clifford could pass!

24 years old hurts him but he has improved and the work shows.

What can't he do. But honestly we need to stop undervaluing older players - Clifford's growth year by year should be viewed as a positive, this is what you want to see if a young player. I'm also not sure why people think he'd be done.

He's one of the best pick and roll players in all of college

He's a better pull up shoother than Tre Johnson, Ace Bailey, and KJ

He finishes at the rim amongt the best in the nation

He's more than just good at things, there's several areas where he excels.

I didn't see any growth till he left Colorado.

year 1-2: clear jump

2-3: nothing, maybe even a step back

3-4: improvement

4-5: improvement

[Jcool0]

What can't he do. But honestly we need to stop undervaluing older players - Clifford's growth year by year should be viewed as a positive, this is what you want to see if a young player. I'm also not sure why people think he'd be done.

He's one of the best pick and roll players in all of college

He's a better pull up shoother than Tre Johnson, Ace Bailey, and KJ

He finishes at the rim amongt the best in the nation

He's more than just good at things, there's several areas where he excels.

I didn't see any growth till he left Colorado.

year 1-2: clear jump

2-3: nothing, maybe even a step back

3-4: improvement

4-5: improvement

He didn't play year 1 so I have no idea if that's a jump or just getting minutes

[drosestruts]

I didn't see any growth till he left Colorado.

year 1-2: clear jump

2-3: nothing, maybe even a step back

3-4: improvement

4-5: improvement

He didn't play year 1 so I have no idea if that's a jump or just getting minutes

ok.

[DuckIII]

Asa Newell is dry white toast. I see nothing that makes me think he'll ever be any better than someone like Jalen Smith. And if he is better, it won't be a lot better. Bulls can get guys like that in free agency pretty much every year.

I would truly hate the pick, which is pretty hard to accomplish because he's literally the only guy being discussed in our range that I don't want. But that is life for me as a Bulls fan under AK. You don't want it? You got it, Duck!

Hoping for a major talent slide like last year so the Bulls make a last minute switch if in fact Newell is their guy.

[BullsSD]

Am I missing something on Rasheer Fleming? I don't see him mentioned enough.

I was his biggest proponent until the board convinced me Essengue is the better pick, albeit worse at many categories as of today, due to his younger age and potential. He and Buzelis could really get up and down the court, but Fleming could too and will likely end up the better shooter.

All in all, I think there's opportunity to get a second 1st late round, and I want two of my top 4, somehow, someway:

1) Maluach
2) Essengue
3) Fleming
4) Coward

[BullsSD]

Asa Newell is dry white toast. I see nothing that makes me think he'll ever be any better than someone like Jalen Smith. And if he is better, it won't be a lot better. Bulls can get guys like that in free agency pretty much every year.

I would truly hate the pick, which is pretty hard to accomplish because he's literally the only guy being discussed in our range that I don't want. But that is life for me as a Bulls fan under AK? You don't want it? You got it, Duck!

Hoping for a major talent slide like last year so the Bulls make a last minute switch if in fact Newell is their guy.

The only thing I disagree here with is his finishing ability. He's got post moves, floaters, jumpers, and a workable 3 ball.

If he is selected, I imagine disappointment followed by being won over by his efforts-- similar to Joakim.

Give me Essengue Coward or Fleming over him any day though. Demin too.

[Muzbar]

Asa Newell is dry white toast. I see nothing that makes me think he'll ever be any better than someone like Jalen Smith. And if he is better, it won't be a lot better. Bulls can get guys like that in free agency pretty much every year.

I would truly hate the pick.

I don't think I'd hate that pick, but I'd be extremely disappointed.

He just seems like 'JAG', probably will have a long NBA career but likely as a role playing energy big. Not a bad player by any means, but not really someone you take a swing at 12, trade back if you want him.

[Dominator83]

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Sounds like Coward is anything but one!

[Muzbar]

This is my list of players I want (in the first round) in order of most wanted to would accept (some are unobtainable, but I want them nonetheless):

VJ Edgecombe
Khaman Malauch
Tre Johnson
Kasparas Jakucionis
Carter Bryant
Noa Essengue
Thomas Sorber
Cedric Coward
Jase Richardson
Kon Knueppel
Will Riley
Rasheer Fleming

[nomorezorro]

Asa Newell is dry white toast. I see nothing that makes me think he'll ever be any better than someone like Jalen Smith. And if he is better, it won't be a lot better. Bulls can get guys like that in free agency pretty much every year.

I would truly hate the pick, which is pretty hard to accomplish because he's literally the only guy being discussed in our range that I don't want. But that is life for me as a Bulls fan under AK. You don't want it? You got it, Duck!

Hoping for a major talent slide like last year so the Bulls make a last minute switch if in fact Newell is their guy.

"jalen smith but with good defense" would be a pretty useful nba player (although it's not like it's a given newell ends up a plus defender)

i don't necessarily disagree with the "guy you can get in free agency" read, though. i do think there's a pretty good chance his realistic ceiling tops out at "guy you would be really happy about having on the MLE", and it's not like he's a notably safe bet to reach even that level. but i also think there's a pretty clear path for him to get there, and are glimpses of things in newell's game that suggest it's not totally outlandish that he becomes something more (flashes of dribble-drive ability, some passing sparks, decent shooting form). those things are way fainter than i'd like them to be for me to be actively excited about the pick, but still...i've pre-talked myself into accepting it

[Jvaughn]

Am I missing something on Rasheer Fleming? I don't see him mentioned enough.

He's still on my list depending on how the draft shakes up. Would have to be a weird sequence of events that would make him BPA on my list. In a trade down sequence, I'd be happy with the pick. Due to his skill set, I think he'll be able to contribute right out of the gate.

[Red8911]

Asa Newell is dry white toast. I see nothing that makes me think he'll ever be any better than someone like Jalen Smith. And if he is better, it won't be a lot better. Bulls can get guys like that in free agency pretty much every year.

I would truly hate the pick, which is pretty hard to accomplish because he's literally the only guy being discussed in our range that I don't want. But that is life for me as a Bulls fan under AK. You don't want it? You got it, Duck!

Hoping for a major talent slide like last year so the Bulls make a last minute switch if in fact Newell is their guy.

Do reverse psychology. Say you want Newell so they don’t draft him.

[DuckIII]

Asa Newell is dry white toast. I see nothing that makes me think he'll ever be any better than someone like Jalen Smith. And if he is better, it won't be a lot better. Bulls can get guys like that in free agency pretty much every year.

I would truly hate the pick, which is pretty hard to accomplish because he's literally the only guy being discussed in our range that I don't want. But that is life for me as a Bulls fan under AK? You don't want it? You got it, Duck!

Hoping for a major talent slide like last year so the Bulls make a last minute switch if in fact Newell is their guy.

The only thing I disagree here with is his finishing ability. He's got post moves, floaters, jumpers, and a workable 3 ball.

If he is selected, I imagine disappointment followed by being won over by his efforts-- similar to Joakim.

Give me Essengue Coward or Fleming over him any day though. Demin too.

He's safe. If the Bulls want to take a safe guy, whose ready to contribute day 1, take CMB. I was just going through some scouting videos of those two (again), and CMB is a downright animal, tireless motor and defender, plays with a high degree of physicality, with every skill there is except a perimeter ball.

Newell is JAG. The ceiling and the floor might not be exactly the same, but they are fraternal twins.

[DuckIII]

Asa Newell is dry white toast. I see nothing that makes me think he'll ever be any better than someone like Jalen Smith. And if he is better, it won't be a lot better. Bulls can get guys like that in free agency pretty much every year.

I would truly hate the pick, which is pretty hard to accomplish because he's literally the only guy being discussed in our range that I don't want. But that is life for me as a Bulls fan under AK. You don't want it? You got it, Duck!

Hoping for a major talent slide like last year so the Bulls make a last minute switch if in fact Newell is their guy.

"jalen smith but with good defense" would be a pretty useful nba player (although it's not like it's a given newell ends up a plus defender)

i don't necessarily disagree with the "guy you can get in free agency" read, though. i do think there's a pretty good chance his realistic ceiling tops out at "guy you would be really happy about having on the MLE", and it's not like he's a notably safe bet to reach even that level. but i also think there's a pretty clear path for him to get there, and are glimpses of things in newell's game that suggest it's not totally outlandish that he becomes something more (flashes of dribble-drive ability, some passing sparks, decent shooting form). those things are way fainter than i'd like them to be for me to be actively excited about the pick, but still...i've pre-talked myself into accepting it

In fairness to guys like Newell and even Sorber (who I prefer to Newell anyway), I would be much higher on them at 12 in a whole lot of drafts. They would likely appear to be the best available options and we'd likely be in the "safe contributor" range of many drafts. But this draft is not like most drafts, in my opinion. To my eye, it not just unusual, but extremely unusual. I can't recall a draft with so many intriguing players at such a wide variety of positions and player types. Walking out that with Asa Newell, to me, is just a huge waste considering the relative options.

[VolumePoster]

Asa Newell is dry white toast. I see nothing that makes me think he'll ever be any better than someone like Jalen Smith. And if he is better, it won't be a lot better. Bulls can get guys like that in free agency pretty much every year.

I would truly hate the pick, which is pretty hard to accomplish because he's literally the only guy being discussed in our range that I don't want. But that is life for me as a Bulls fan under AK. You don't want it? You got it, Duck!

Hoping for a major talent slide like last year so the Bulls make a last minute switch if in fact Newell is their guy.

I know, Duck. And here’s the thing. I’m ready to be totally underwhelmed, even dismayed, and THEY HAVE ALREADY BEEN EXTENDED.

[Jcool0]

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[Senor Chang]

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Oh how i pray either of them take demin. Would increase our chances of getting someone i really want.


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