Qwigglez wrote:Ghost of Kleine wrote:Qwigglez wrote:I would be willing to trade KD to Raptors without the 9th pick coming back to Suns TBH.
A four-team trade if Suns get under the 2nd apron...
Suns get:
Cam Johnson
Immanuel Quickley
Jakob Poeltl
Raptors get:
Kevin Durant
Deandre Ayton
Nets get:
RJ Barrett
Blazers get:
Grayson Allen
Royce O'Neal
9th pick
DA is going to be a free agent in the summer of 2026, so Blazers cash in on DA. Nets do not want to sign D'Lo and prefer a backcourt of Cam Thomas and RJ Barrett. Raptors love having height, wingspan and players that can switch (and make FT's) in KD, Barnes, Ingram, and DA... throw in a little Dick in there too, and plenty to love!
Suns got a starting five...
Quickley
Booker
Dunn
Cam Jo
Poeltl
Beal becomes the first player to ever win 6th man of the year and MVP. Leads Suns to first ever mid-season tournament winners! Suns lose in play-in, but they can run it back again the following season with a new head coach.
So from what's already been suggested, you could get a top 10 lotto pick in this deal while basically getting the same players but would prefer to just get less value overall despite the fact that we're already devoid of young, athletic cost controlled talent, draft picks and developmental/ desirable young assets that could grow with our core.
I'm really trying to understand the logic here for willingly taking significantly less value than what's being openly offered.
Also, a few questions about this premise.........
1- From all of the reports coming out about Brooklyn, they're primary interests are centered upon acquiring another top 10 lotto pick ( using Cam Johnson/ Claxton and their picks). But instead for some reason they're choosing to pass on getting the 9th pick just to swap out Johnson for Barrett?? What benefit does that offer the Nets over getting both the 9th pick and Barrett in the other trade premise previously mentioned?
2- The Raptors getting Ayton, but paying close to 16 million more to take on Ayton when they're already up against the apron? Poetl is 16 million cheaper and more reliable and coincidently has a strong connection with Raptors as they first drafted and developed him, and then traded to get him back too. I'm just not sure they'd have any intentions of moving him again.
3- Why are the Blazers taking on Allen and O'neales' long term money at the SG position when they already have Advija, Simons (still), Camara, Sharpe, Rupert, and Thybulle all at the SG/ SF positions and have been said to be trying to cut payroll and dump Grant, etc. They're looking to reduce long term payroll, not add to it I believe. Although the 9th pick could be enticing, but why help out another western conference team at our own expense?
From my understanding, the Raptors were not willing to give up Poeltl, IQ, Barrett, and the 9th pick. Just a combo of those. So, my idea was the Raptors trade all of those, except they not only get KD but they get DA as well.
1. The Nets trade Cam who is 29 for a 25-year-old.
2. The Raptors trade several players for an upgrade in KD and DA. As mentioned in my post, the Raptors have an archetype of player and that is versatility. Poeltl isn't able to switch on many pick and rolls as effectively as Ayton, and then Poeltl can't shoot FTs either.
3. The Blazers are taking on Allen and O'Neal to get the 9th pick and to hand the starting center spot to Clingan. And again, Ayton will be expiring after the 2025-26 season. Simons will also be expiring, and the Blazers would definitely prefer small team-friendly contracts as opposed to handing over something much larger to Simons. Suns aren't looking at helping another team at their own expense, it is to get the Raptors to make the trade to include Poeltl. Personally, I'd prefer Suns target Ayton, but his salary is far too large to make work.
The thing here is that the reason why the Raptors aren't willing to include Poetl in the trade is because Masai Ujiri has a very strong connection with him as do most of Toronto's front office.
So they wouldn't be looking to trade him anyways, and definitely not for a more expensive Ayton who hasn't really shown much of anything since he left Phoenix to the point of the Blazers not even wanting to extend him.
And prioritizing Clingan who's clearly more limited in skillset/ versatility over him. Again, they're already up against the tax, and they gave up a whole lot just to trade for Poetl and bring him back.
I just don't see them thinking that Ayton is worth 16 million more to push them over the apron for 1 season if he doesn't resign or they won't want to pay him a max anyways. Is he an upgrade to Poetl in terms of overall skillset versatility.....YES!
But would they want him over Poetl especially after all they gave up to bring Poetl back? I seriously doubt it! And definitely not at 35 million given what he's shown/ not shown so far! I mean just compare them statistically:
https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?player_id2=aytonde01&year_min=2025&player_id1=poeltja01&seasons_type=forall&request=1&utm_source=bbr&utm_medium=sr_xsite&utm_campaign=2023_01_wdgt_player_comparison&utm_id=poeltja01And you'll find that Poetl has been better in most categories and cost 16 million less too. Recently their fans were discussing being able to bring him back ( resign him soon) for around 20 million on a long term deal. I'm pretty sure they want to keep him there long term
And yeah! You're proposing trading trading Cam Johnson for a younger productive fringe all star wing talent. However, if you've been following the reports out there, there primary interests around considering trading Johnson wasn't to just swap him out with another wing player.
They're strong desire was to trade Johnson, Johnson and Claxton or even Johnson/ Claxton and their multitude of late firsts in combination with those two in order to acquire an additional top 10 lottery pick!
Sure Barrett is solid, but despite being younger, he's also positionally smaller, only incrementally more productive and not nearly as efficient as a shooter/ floor spscer as Johnson and is significantly more expensive contracually) (as it matters under the new CBA).
But most importantly man, a see wap with another team getting the 9th pick doesn't help them achieve their primary goal of acquiring another top 10 pick at all. At best they're just swapping out their bigger wing for a smaller more expensive wing that's a worse shooter and only marginally better statistically.
I really think they'd prefer the 9th pick so they can package it with their 8th pick and try to move up aw is their plan. This is why reports are gloating out there about possible trades with other lottery teams like San Antonio and Houston about Johnson for another lottery pick and not just a player for player swap.
Lastly, as enticing as the 9th pick is ( just not apparently to some here even though we may not have an opportunity for another one for coose yo a decade but whatever I guess).
The goal of the Trailblazers is to dramatically reduce their payroll WITHOUT taking in any long term or multi year deals. Now looking at their cap situation, they're sitting at 170 million and BOTH Ayton and Timelord are expirings next season, so just between those two players alone coming off the books after next season, they'd have upwards of 48 million in cap reduction. And then you add in Simons expiring into that for close to 76 million in cap flexibility.
So they wouldn't be over the tax line this season anyways needing to make moves with Ayton because in 1 yrs time, all that money drops off their books and both centers will be gone too making Clingan the sole starting center by default.
Not only that, but they've already been brokering potential trades for Simons and discussing a potential RW to Chicago deal too. So again, there's really no need for them to severely logjam their SG/ SF position with Allen and O'neale, both who are on multiyear contracts running well beyond those expirings of Ayton, Timelord and Simons.
Basically they'd be eating that multiyear salary for the acquisition of a top 10 lottery pick. But then honestly, that's a pretty egregious overpay just for a salary dump of our two SGs. Even moreso by the fact that our franchise is so devoid of legitimate assets and especially any lottery picks whatsoever that we might kot see again for a long time after giving them away to other teams.
It get your creativity behind this man. But it just seems wildly unnecessary and somewhat shortsighted given our current situation. Unless of course your perspective is that Allen and O'neale would be viewed as untradable or such negative value that we'd have to attach lottery value just to dump their salaries??
Personally, I just much rather do something like:
Toronto:
KD.
Brooklyn:
Barrett/ O'neale/ Richards/ 9th pick.
Phoenix:
Quickly/ Johnson/ Claxton/ 19th pick/ 26th pick/ 36th pick.
** picks can be negotiated further if absolutely necessary. But this trade helps Brooklyn achieve their ultimate goal of acquiring another top 10 lottery pick.
They also get Barrett as a young productive fringe all star wing asset. They'd get O'neale as a salary filler and vet presence with familiarity to the franchise.
And they'd get a cheaper stopgap alternative to Claxton who they've been considering moving due to his cost and percieved capped ceiling.
It basically breaks down to Barrett/ O'neale for Johnson and Richards and the 9th pick for Claxton. For Phoenix, we've addressed a quality starting caliber guard, a fan favorite feel good story and floor spacing 3/4 in Johnson.
And a starting caliber defensive center while also adding some draft picks to get multiple swings at young athletic COST CONTROLLED TALENT to fill out our roster and grow without core until Beal comes off our books.
** Allen cam he traded elsewhere if necessary! Perhaps back to Milwaukee for Connaughton expiring/ Andre Jackson (lowkey like Castle)and the DET 25' 2nd ( 45th pick) Take Kobe Brea??
OR Allen to Detroit for Fontecchio/ Klintman/ 37th pick and draft Sion James or John Tonje?
