Stein/Fischer: Toronto willing to deal RJ Barrett, IQ, Poeltl for Significant Upgrades // #9 Available

[TGM]

A reclamation project is like Markennan, Horford or Paul. Some who has put up insane stats in the past. P Will has just always underperformed. It’s still a head scratcher why the bulls signed him to that extension. He might be an 8-10th guy on a playoff team. But to think he busts into some solid starter I think the this plane just can’t fly.

[ash_k]

it is good to hear about Yak and FO position on that as it almost feel like we owe him "loyalty"! Unless we send him to LAL, it would not feel quite right to trade him.
Either way no matter what happens we have to come out with a starting center. Acquiring Deandre Ayton would be like getting Ingram as far as the level of talent.

[ArthurVandelay]

Raptors trying to draft a Center was obvious.

Surprised the Raptors could be discussing a long-term contract with Poetl, however. He is severely underrated, but I didn't think his age would fit with the core. Especially considering we're trying to draft a center with our pick this year

Poeltl s game is not based on athleticism. He’s going to be performing at this level for another 4-5 seasons imo

[Godaddycurse]

Raptors trying to draft a Center was obvious.

Surprised the Raptors could be discussing a long-term contract with Poetl, however. He is severely underrated, but I didn't think his age would fit with the core. Especially considering we're trying to draft a center with our pick this year

Poeltl s game is not based on athleticism. He’s going to be performing at this level for another 4-5 seasons imo

Centers take a while to develop. i think a 2-3 year extension is fine so it expires when the rookie center's extension is due

[Shakril]

Offseason hasn't even really started. Buckle up buddy, I expect a good move using RJ + IQ + asset(s) for an allstar level PG lol.

Also, no chance any team is lining up to pay Poeltl 3/80. 3/70 is the max I see him getting.

Hartenstein got 3/87 and Poeltl is the better player (OKC sees it the same way as they went for Poeltl first, so please dont argue about that)

There is no reason for Poeltl to take less, only if Masai can convince Poeltl to take less so the team keeps more flexibility for the roster.

But could also come down to who has cap space to sign him. And if he/his agent foresees few teams with room and fit, he could sign for less. Especially if he doesn't want to leave Toronto.

In the end, if there is an agreement to an extension, the number will be one toronto can live with. So i would be neither surprised with 25 mil or 30 mil. Most important though is, that he can opt out next year, and get more than what he gets now on the open market. And the way the capspace jumps, its not unreasonable to think he gets the most money he cant get. We just saw playoffs, where serviceable Big Man have contributed a lot to the success of their teams and teams without defensive centers got whacked.

Most important though is to keep him, as there is no replacment for him, if we want to win.

[TGM]

It’s great to see Jakob finally getting the appreciation that he deserves so many people criticize the acquisition at the time and didn’t understand what he brought to the table. Guys like Jakob helps you win. He is not the issue on the team. If we had a go to scorer like KD or even now BI we start winning more games for sure. Love Scottie but his role is not alpha scorer. We’ve been trying to force his game the wrong way. Scottie can be the face of the franchise but doesn’t mean he should be the guy with the ball in his hands. It’s like GS trying to win with Draymond as the crunch time go to guy. I rather Scottie be a 15 ppg but 10 boards and 6-7 assist 1.5 steals and 2 blocks type of guy.

[Landomar]

The thing about taking on a contract like Williams is that Masai almost never does that. I think that’s especially true with the ownership uncertainty. They’re going to want to keep things flexible at least for a while.

I agree, I don't think taking on Patrick Williams's contract is worth it, and Masai does not have a history of making trades like this.

[Tripod]

Hartenstein got 3/87 and Poeltl is the better player (OKC sees it the same way as they went for Poeltl first, so please dont argue about that)

There is no reason for Poeltl to take less, only if Masai can convince Poeltl to take less so the team keeps more flexibility for the roster.

But could also come down to who has cap space to sign him. And if he/his agent foresees few teams with room and fit, he could sign for less. Especially if he doesn't want to leave Toronto.

In the end, if there is an agreement to an extension, the number will be one toronto can live with. So i would be neither surprised with 25 mil or 30 mil. Most important though is, that he can opt out next year, and get more than what he gets on the open market. And the way the capspace jumps, its not unreasonable to think he gets the most money he cant get. We just saw playoffs, where serviceable Big Man have contributed a lot to the success of their teams and teams without defensive centers got whacked.

Most important though is to keep him, as there is no replacment for him, if we want to win.

Agreed. I want him kept.

[bboyskinnylegs]

we've had interest in PWill in the past, so I could see why we'd make a deal like that if we can grab the #12 pick with him. I doubt the Bulls would.

[ontnut]

I really don't like PWill. I think he's a negative player overall and he hasn't developed at all in his career - plus his 3p shooting has declined year over year, and with increased usage, so I wonder if he's even a 3 and D guy. But RJ for a 11 or 12th pick in these proposed deals is interesting for sure, esp if Masai has guys there he likes. It does help balance the roster somewhat too, opening up some guard minutes for shooters.

[PushDaRock]

You're taking on more years here, I don't even wanna trade RJ, but if we are we should be trading up, he's not a toxic or bad contract. PWill sucks at 18m x 4yr

I’m no PWill fan but with the way the cap is going he’ll effectively be making the MLE for his last 2 seasons. For a solid spot starter/backup 3/4 that’s perfectly fine money. Yeah the length sort of sucks.

Sign me up for that deal. There are always good players available in the 12 range and it balances our roster better shifting depth from the 2/3 to 3/4.

Yeah the Williams hate is a bit much.

$18M for a 40% shooter who is somewhat of a 3+D guy isn’t amazing value but it isn’t horrible. It balances out our roster, fits a need (vet backup PG / third stringer), and brings in more youth on controllable contracts in the 12th pick.

PWill feels like a nice buy low.

IQ/Shead
Ochai/Walter
Ingram/Dick/Battle
Barnes/PWill
Poeltl/Mogbo

Plus 9 and 12

The issue is he looks the part, has a few tools but absolutely sucks at Basketball. 39% career 3 point shooter looks good on paper but it's on 1.2 makes per game. He ramped up the volume a bit more last season and his percentage dropped to 35%, not really a good sign going forward. He's a good athlete but doesn't rebound and he had 18 dunks the entire year, his athleticism doesn't really translate over. His teams also suck badly when he's on the court and are better when he doesn't play. He's a -3.8 in on court per 100 and -7.5 in on/off per 100. 5 years in and there's been no progression in his game. Maybe a change of scenery helps but it's more likely he is what he is at this point.

[tsherkin]

I’m no PWill fan but with the way the cap is going he’ll effectively be making the MLE for his last 2 seasons. For a solid spot starter/backup 3/4 that’s perfectly fine money. Yeah the length sort of sucks.

Sign me up for that deal. There are always good players available in the 12 range and it balances our roster better shifting depth from the 2/3 to 3/4.

Yeah the Williams hate is a bit much.

$18M for a 40% shooter who is somewhat of a 3+D guy isn’t amazing value but it isn’t horrible. It balances out our roster, fits a need (vet backup PG / third stringer), and brings in more youth on controllable contracts in the 12th pick.

PWill feels like a nice buy low.

IQ/Shead
Ochai/Walter
Ingram/Dick/Battle
Barnes/PWill
Poeltl/Mogbo

Plus 9 and 12

The issue is he looks the part, has a few tools but absolutely sucks at Basketball. 39% career 3 point shooter looks good on paper but it's on 1.2 makes per game. He ramped up the volume a bit more last season and his percentage dropped to 35%, not really a good sign going forward. He's a good athlete but doesn't rebound and he had 18 dunks the entire year, his athleticism doesn't really translate over. His teams also suck badly when he's on the court and are better when he doesn't play. He's a -3.8 in on court per 100 and -7.5 in on/off per 100. 5 years in and there's been no progression in his game. Maybe a change of scenery helps but it's more likely he is what he is at this point.

Yeah, he's... not good at basically anything but 3pt shooting... and even there, he weakens considerably when he gets out of the corner more regularly. He's not a strong ATB shooter.

I'd hope we would want more from our PF that just being an undersized spacer. We've played that game before, and don't really have the juice elsewhere in the lineup to make that work well.

[ItsDanger]

It’s great to see Jakob finally getting the appreciation that he deserves so many people criticize the acquisition at the time and didn’t understand what he brought to the table. Guys like Jakob helps you win. He is not the issue on the team. If we had a go to scorer like KD or even now BI we start winning more games for sure. Love Scottie but his role is not alpha scorer. We’ve been trying to force his game the wrong way. Scottie can be the face of the franchise but doesn’t mean he should be the guy with the ball in his hands. It’s like GS trying to win with Draymond as the crunch time go to guy. I rather Scottie be a 15 ppg but 10 boards and 6-7 assist 1.5 steals and 2 blocks type of guy.

We understood the situation. The subsequent results speak for themselves.

[ConSarnit]

Yeah the Williams hate is a bit much.

$18M for a 40% shooter who is somewhat of a 3+D guy isn’t amazing value but it isn’t horrible. It balances out our roster, fits a need (vet backup PG / third stringer), and brings in more youth on controllable contracts in the 12th pick.

PWill feels like a nice buy low.

IQ/Shead
Ochai/Walter
Ingram/Dick/Battle
Barnes/PWill
Poeltl/Mogbo

Plus 9 and 12

The issue is he looks the part, has a few tools but absolutely sucks at Basketball. 39% career 3 point shooter looks good on paper but it's on 1.2 makes per game. He ramped up the volume a bit more last season and his percentage dropped to 35%, not really a good sign going forward. He's a good athlete but doesn't rebound and he had 18 dunks the entire year, his athleticism doesn't really translate over. His teams also suck badly when he's on the court and are better when he doesn't play. He's a -3.8 in on court per 100 and -7.5 in on/off per 100. 5 years in and there's been no progression in his game. Maybe a change of scenery helps but it's more likely he is what he is at this point.

Yeah, he's... not good at basically anything but 3pt shooting... and even there, he weakens considerably when he gets out of the corner more regularly. He's not a strong ATB shooter.

I'd hope we would want more from our PF that just being an undersized spacer. We've played that game before, and don't really have the juice elsewhere in the lineup to make that work well.

He’d be a bench guy though. Maybe a spot starter if there is an injury. Williams salary is flat at $18m

2027-28 MLE: $17m
2027-2029 MLE: $18.7m

MLE for a bench 3/4 isn’t all that bad. He’s hits 3’s and won’t get attack defensively. PWill is not all that good but he’s not really making starter money.

[ConSarnit]

It’s great to see Jakob finally getting the appreciation that he deserves so many people criticize the acquisition at the time and didn’t understand what he brought to the table. Guys like Jakob helps you win. He is not the issue on the team. If we had a go to scorer like KD or even now BI we start winning more games for sure. Love Scottie but his role is not alpha scorer. We’ve been trying to force his game the wrong way. Scottie can be the face of the franchise but doesn’t mean he should be the guy with the ball in his hands. It’s like GS trying to win with Draymond as the crunch time go to guy. I rather Scottie be a 15 ppg but 10 boards and 6-7 assist 1.5 steals and 2 blocks type of guy.

Poeltl was a win now move and we haven’t played a single playoff game since he’s been here.

The criticism was not Poeltl’s skill, it was that we shouldn’t have been making a win now move at the time.

The Poeltl trade has paid ZERO dividends in 3 years and cost us a top 10 pick. There’s not much to appreciate here.

[HangTime]

Something like this?

Raptors get:
Kevin Durant,
Cameron Johnson, #26
#12

Suns get:
Immanuel Quickley, Ochai Agbagi, Colin Castleton, #39
Jalen Smith
#19

Bulls get:
RJ Barrett

Nets get:
AJ Lawson, #9
Patrick Williams
#29

[PushDaRock]

The issue is he looks the part, has a few tools but absolutely sucks at Basketball. 39% career 3 point shooter looks good on paper but it's on 1.2 makes per game. He ramped up the volume a bit more last season and his percentage dropped to 35%, not really a good sign going forward. He's a good athlete but doesn't rebound and he had 18 dunks the entire year, his athleticism doesn't really translate over. His teams also suck badly when he's on the court and are better when he doesn't play. He's a -3.8 in on court per 100 and -7.5 in on/off per 100. 5 years in and there's been no progression in his game. Maybe a change of scenery helps but it's more likely he is what he is at this point.

Yeah, he's... not good at basically anything but 3pt shooting... and even there, he weakens considerably when he gets out of the corner more regularly. He's not a strong ATB shooter.

I'd hope we would want more from our PF that just being an undersized spacer. We've played that game before, and don't really have the juice elsewhere in the lineup to make that work well.

He’d be a bench guy though. Maybe a spot starter if there is an injury. Williams salary is flat at $18m

2027-28 MLE: $17m
2027-2029 MLE: $18.7m

MLE for a bench 3/4 isn’t all that bad. He’s hits 3’s and won’t get attack defensively. PWill is not all that good but he’s not really making starter money.

Why don't we just bring back Boucher instead? He's the much better player and would cost us a lot less money in term and AAV.

[Tor_Raps]

But could also come down to who has cap space to sign him. And if he/his agent foresees few teams with room and fit, he could sign for less. Especially if he doesn't want to leave Toronto.

In the end, if there is an agreement to an extension, the number will be one toronto can live with. So i would be neither surprised with 25 mil or 30 mil. Most important though is, that he can opt out next year, and get more than what he gets on the open market. And the way the capspace jumps, its not unreasonable to think he gets the most money he cant get. We just saw playoffs, where serviceable Big Man have contributed a lot to the success of their teams and teams without defensive centers got whacked.

Most important though is to keep him, as there is no replacment for him, if we want to win.

Agreed. I want him kept.

Hartenstein got overpaid by OKC because he fit perfectly into their payroll before the rest of the roster got expensive. No other team was going to pay close to what he got from them so you can bet your ass his 3rd year will get declined. Fred was the same way for Houston.

Teams have less cap space now than ever before because no one wants to go over the 2nd apron and are trading their big salaries to other teams (e.g. Ingram to Toronto). There's only a few teams this offseason who could even sign anyone above the MLE.

[Scase]

raptors were just bargin hunting, the rumors just got out of hand.

Offseason hasn't even really started. Buckle up buddy, I expect a good move using RJ + IQ + asset(s) for an allstar level PG lol.

Also, no chance any team is lining up to pay Poeltl 3/80. 3/70 is the max I see him getting.

Hartenstein got 3/87 and Poeltl is the better player (OKC sees it the same way as they went for Poeltl first, so please dont argue about that)

There is no reason for Poeltl to take less, only if Masai can convince Poeltl to take less so the team keeps more flexibility for the roster.

IH was "overpaid" on a per year basis due to the length of the term and OKC needing to get someone right away, I don't think it's a great metric. It's going to depend on the market and our cap space.

[djsunyc]

It’s great to see Jakob finally getting the appreciation that he deserves so many people criticize the acquisition at the time and didn’t understand what he brought to the table. Guys like Jakob helps you win. He is not the issue on the team. If we had a go to scorer like KD or even now BI we start winning more games for sure. Love Scottie but his role is not alpha scorer. We’ve been trying to force his game the wrong way. Scottie can be the face of the franchise but doesn’t mean he should be the guy with the ball in his hands. It’s like GS trying to win with Draymond as the crunch time go to guy. I rather Scottie be a 15 ppg but 10 boards and 6-7 assist 1.5 steals and 2 blocks type of guy.

Poeltl was a win now move and we haven’t played a single playoff game since he’s been here.

The criticism was not Poeltl’s skill, it was that we shouldn’t have been making a win now move at the time.

The Poeltl trade has paid ZERO dividends in 3 years and cost us a top 10 pick. There’s not much to appreciate here.

yak trade is not the same as yak the player