Official NBA General Discussion 2025-26 V1.0

[tsherkin]

Chet is 60 TS% in the regular season dropping down to 44 TS% right now in the finals, personally I think a 16 TS% drop is more significant than 5 TS% drop off regardless of the volume difference. Chet not getting it done is also making life very difficult for SGA and JDub allowing the Pacers to key in on them even more.

In the OKC series, Jokic was only a 59.2 TS% down from 66.3 TS% in the regular season and turned it over a ton, so I guess you blame him mostly for them losing as well then?

Jokic had a rough series, yeah. I think the situation with Denver was a little different, though, because the peripheral guys were a lot worse. At the end of the day, though, Joker is going to shoulder that blame. But in his case, if it was ONLY one guy on mid volume who was flubbing it, that'd be one thing. But for him, he had huge issues from a 20+ ppg scorer (Murray), an 18+ ppg scorer (MPJ), who was injured), another shooter (Braun) and his other major perimeter initiator (Westbrook). And then the late injury with Aaron Gordon. That was systemic team failure.

As you say, in this series, whilst volume reduced, most of Shai's roleplayers are doing well. Williams is struggling a bit, but he's been about 50/50 and had a huge performance in Game 5. It's not REALLY the same thing as what happened with Denver.

[PushDaRock]

Chet is 60 TS% in the regular season dropping down to 44 TS% right now in the finals, personally I think a 16 TS% drop is more significant than 5 TS% drop off regardless of the volume difference. Chet not getting it done is also making life very difficult for SGA and JDub allowing the Pacers to key in on them even more.

In the OKC series, Jokic was only a 59.2 TS% down from 66.3 TS% in the regular season and turned it over a ton, so I guess you blame him mostly for them losing as well then?

Jokic had a rough series, yeah. I think the situation with Denver was a little different, though, because the peripheral guys were a lot worse. At the end of the day, though, Joker is going to shoulder that blame. But in his case, if it was ONLY one guy on mid volume who was flubbing it, that'd be one thing. But for him, he had huge issues from a 20+ ppg scorer (Murray), an 18+ ppg scorer (MPJ), who was injured), another shooter (Braun) and his other major perimeter initiator (Westbrook). And then the late injury with Aaron Gordon. That was systemic team failure.

As you say, in this series, whilst volume reduced, most of Shai's roleplayers are doing well. Williams is struggling a bit, but he's been about 50/50 and had a huge performance in Game 5. It's not REALLY the same thing as what happened with Denver.

OKC was a 68 win team. If they can't win without SGA playing at his regular season level, why wouldn't that be a systemic team failure as well? Just not sure why SGA would be getting more blame than Jokic in this scenario.

To be clear, I think it's a bit ridiculous to blame either of them. It's also not realistic to expect regular season efficiency to carry over into the NBA finals. Regular season includes beating up a bunch of bad teams to inflate numbers vs playing against an elite team in a best of 7 series that's playing hard every possession and scouted everything you're doing offensively.

[tsherkin]

OKC was a 68 win team. If they can't win without SGA playing at his regular season level, why wouldn't that be a systemic team failure as well? Just not sure why SGA would be getting more blame than Jokic in this scenario.

Because OKC isn't struggling in the same manner as Indiana. It's certainly not as broad an issue on their roster as it was for Denver.

To be clear, I think it's a bit ridiculous to blame either of them. It's also not realistic to expect regular season efficiency to carry over into the NBA finals. Regular season includes beating up a bunch of bad teams to inflate numbers vs playing against an elite team in a best of 7 series that's playing hard every possession and scouted everything you're doing offensively.

Also, I do not generally expect RS efficiency, especially if it was in the mid-60s, in the playoffs.

You asked about who I thought was more of an issue than Chet. And to me, Shai's play is more problematic than an efficient 15 ppg player scoring an inefficient 11 ppg. I don't consider Chet to be tanking their offense. I don't think Shai is playing poorly, Game 6 notwithstanding, but because he commands such a large proportion of the offense and has been a major source of turnovers, it's a heavier impact on the O than Chet's scoring, that's all.

[pingpongrac]

OKC was a 68 win team. If they can't win without SGA playing at his regular season level, why wouldn't that be a systemic team failure as well? Just not sure why SGA would be getting more blame than Jokic in this scenario.

Because OKC isn't struggling in the same manner as Indiana. It's certainly not as broad an issue on their roster as it was for Denver.

To be clear, I think it's a bit ridiculous to blame either of them. It's also not realistic to expect regular season efficiency to carry over into the NBA finals. Regular season includes beating up a bunch of bad teams to inflate numbers vs playing against an elite team in a best of 7 series that's playing hard every possession and scouted everything you're doing offensively.

Also, I do not generally expect RS efficiency, especially if it was in the mid-60s, in the playoffs.

You asked about who I thought was more of an issue than Chet. And to me, Shai's play is more problematic than an efficient 15 ppg player scoring an inefficient 11 ppg. I don't consider Chet to be tanking their offense. I don't think Shai is playing poorly, Game 6 notwithstanding, but because he commands such a large proportion of the offense and has been a major source of turnovers, it's a heavier impact on the O than Chet's scoring, that's all.

Chet has had three games of single-digit scoring and it's not like he has been lighting it up in the other games. Whichever way you slice it, he is averaging 25% less PPG in the Finals than he did during the season – and ~33% less than he did in the first three rounds of the playoffs – while sporting the worst TS% among rotation players by far as well as a 0.4 AST/TO ratio. He has been practically unplayable and invisible on the offensive end for the majority of the series.

When it comes to SGA, he is still producing at a very high level (31/5/5 on 59 TS%) and he has really only had one bad night in G6. While he is averaging 3.8 TOV, he was averaging 3.0 TOV (which is pretty close to being in line with his regular season average when accounting for the extra 5 MPG) prior to G6 when he coughed the ball up 8 times.

It's pretty wild to think SGA is damaging OKC more than Chet lol. One is still more than likely to win the FMVP while the other has arguably been the 2nd least effective starter on either team (Turner has been bad as well).

[PushDaRock]

OKC was a 68 win team. If they can't win without SGA playing at his regular season level, why wouldn't that be a systemic team failure as well? Just not sure why SGA would be getting more blame than Jokic in this scenario.

Because OKC isn't struggling in the same manner as Indiana. It's certainly not as broad an issue on their roster as it was for Denver.

To be clear, I think it's a bit ridiculous to blame either of them. It's also not realistic to expect regular season efficiency to carry over into the NBA finals. Regular season includes beating up a bunch of bad teams to inflate numbers vs playing against an elite team in a best of 7 series that's playing hard every possession and scouted everything you're doing offensively.

Also, I do not generally expect RS efficiency, especially if it was in the mid-60s, in the playoffs.

You asked about who I thought was more of an issue than Chet. And to me, Shai's play is more problematic than an efficient 15 ppg player scoring an inefficient 11 ppg. I don't consider Chet to be tanking their offense. I don't think Shai is playing poorly, Game 6 notwithstanding, but because he commands such a large proportion of the offense and has been a major source of turnovers, it's a heavier impact on the O than Chet's scoring, that's all.

SGA Regular Season 32.7 ppg on 63.7 TS% in 34.2 mpg
SGA Finals 30.5 ppg on 58.5 TS% in 37.8 mpg
=2.2 less ppg on -5.2 TS% in extra 3.6 mpg

Chet Regular Season 15 ppg on 59.9 TS% in 27.4 mpg
Chet Finals 11.3 ppg on 44.5 TS% in 30.1 mpg
=3.7 less ppg on -15.4 TS% in extra 2.7 mpg

Not sure how to look at that objectively and say SGA is the bigger issue here. SGA is playing way closer to his normal level than Chet is. If we take a look at eFG%, it's even uglier. Chet's shooting 36.8 eFG% and his efficiency is already being propped up by shooting 95% from the line this series.

[PushDaRock]

OKC was a 68 win team. If they can't win without SGA playing at his regular season level, why wouldn't that be a systemic team failure as well? Just not sure why SGA would be getting more blame than Jokic in this scenario.

Because OKC isn't struggling in the same manner as Indiana. It's certainly not as broad an issue on their roster as it was for Denver.

To be clear, I think it's a bit ridiculous to blame either of them. It's also not realistic to expect regular season efficiency to carry over into the NBA finals. Regular season includes beating up a bunch of bad teams to inflate numbers vs playing against an elite team in a best of 7 series that's playing hard every possession and scouted everything you're doing offensively.

Also, I do not generally expect RS efficiency, especially if it was in the mid-60s, in the playoffs.

You asked about who I thought was more of an issue than Chet. And to me, Shai's play is more problematic than an efficient 15 ppg player scoring an inefficient 11 ppg. I don't consider Chet to be tanking their offense. I don't think Shai is playing poorly, Game 6 notwithstanding, but because he commands such a large proportion of the offense and has been a major source of turnovers, it's a heavier impact on the O than Chet's scoring, that's all.

Chet has had three games of single-digit scoring and it's not like he has been lighting it up in the other games. Whichever way you slice it, he is averaging 25% less PPG in the Finals than he did during the season – and ~33% less than he did in the first three rounds of the playoffs – while sporting the worst TS% among rotation players by far as well as a 0.4 AST/TO ratio. He has been practically unplayable and invisible on the offensive end for the majority of the series.

When it comes to SGA, he is still producing at a very high level (31/5/5 on 59 TS%) and he has really only had one bad night in G6. While he is averaging 3.8 TOV, he was averaging 3.0 TOV (which is pretty close to being in line with his regular season average when accounting for the extra 5 MPG) prior to G6 when he coughed the ball up 8 times.

It's pretty wild to think SGA is damaging OKC more than Chet lol. One is still more than likely to win the FMVP while the other has arguably been the 2nd least effective starter on either team (Turner has been bad as well).

If anyone else in the league was averaging over 30 ppg on 59 TS% in the NBA Finals, are we blaming them the most for the team not winning? Just seems like a ridiculously high standard being set that nobody else is being held to.

[tsherkin]

Chet has had three games of single-digit scoring and it's not like he has been lighting it up in the other games. Whichever way you slice it, he is averaging 25% less PPG in the Finals than he did during the season – and ~33% less than he did in the first three rounds of the playoffs – while sporting the worst TS% among rotation players by far as well as a 0.4 AST/TO ratio. He has been practically unplayable and invisible on the offensive end for the majority of the series.

Yes. And multiple times I have acknowledging that he is playing poorly. I don't think he's the root problem with the team, though. And I agree that Shai is still producing at a high level. Two things can be true, man, and I outlined this earlier.

It's pretty wild to think SGA is damaging OKC more than Chet lol. One is still more than likely to win the FMVP while the other has arguably been the 2nd least effective starter on either team (Turner has been bad as well).

If they win, Shai will win FMVP and he will deserve it, no doubt.

Y'all need to process that Shai being the focal point is the core of what I'm saying. They've got some shooting issues and some deflated volume issues all around, sure.

Not sure how to look at that objectively and say SGA is the bigger issue here. SGA is playing way closer to his normal level than Chet is. If we take a look at eFG%, it's even uglier. Chet's shooting 36.8 eFG% and his efficiency is already being propped up by shooting 95% from the line this series.

I agree that Chet is doing worse relative to his RS performance. I just don't see it mattering as much because he's a much smaller part of the offense.

[PushDaRock]

Chet has had three games of single-digit scoring and it's not like he has been lighting it up in the other games. Whichever way you slice it, he is averaging 25% less PPG in the Finals than he did during the season – and ~33% less than he did in the first three rounds of the playoffs – while sporting the worst TS% among rotation players by far as well as a 0.4 AST/TO ratio. He has been practically unplayable and invisible on the offensive end for the majority of the series.

Yes. And multiple times I have acknowledging that he is playing poorly. I don't think he's the root problem with the team, though. And I agree that Shai is still producing at a high level. Two things can be true, man, and I outlined this earlier.

It's pretty wild to think SGA is damaging OKC more than Chet lol. One is still more than likely to win the FMVP while the other has arguably been the 2nd least effective starter on either team (Turner has been bad as well).

If they win, Shai will win FMVP and he will deserve it, no doubt.

Y'all need to process that Shai being the focal point is the core of what I'm saying. They've got some shooting issues and some deflated volume issues all around, sure.

Not sure how to look at that objectively and say SGA is the bigger issue here. SGA is playing way closer to his normal level than Chet is. If we take a look at eFG%, it's even uglier. Chet's shooting 36.8 eFG% and his efficiency is already being propped up by shooting 95% from the line this series.

I agree that Chet is doing worse relative to his RS performance. I just don't see it mattering as much because he's a much smaller part of the offense.

You're saying SGA is playing at a high level but if they lose it will also be primarily because of him?

lol yeah you lost me with that one

[tsherkin]

lol yeah you lost me with that one

We can move on now, as I don't think we will get anywhere with this particular line. Which is fine.

In an ideal world for OKC, everyone plays better and then tomorrow will be a competitive game that's fun to watch. I'm rooting for Indy, but OKC is so good that it's hard to root against them.

[Los_29]

Here I am thinking SGA has had a great series and well on his way to a FMVP if they win. And yet, according to some he’s been their biggest problem. lol.

[Los_29]

I think the series is done. Indy blinked in fourth of game 4 and the magic of their run was lost at that point.

Hali also got hurt so they are now relying on TJ McConnell or Nembhard to takeover. That's a huge ask.

They also seem to have lost Jalen Williams on drives and he is killing them like its death by paper cuts.

I do hope for a miracle, but OKC has been better. Their defense is propelling them.

Can’t look at one individual game. Both teams have made great adjustments and Indiana took care of business at home. Game wasn’t competitive.

Game 7 is going to be electric. I think the Thunder will pull it out but hope it’s a close game.

Great bounceback by Indiana but I don't know if Hali actually has a calf strain because he looked 200% better in game 6. Good gamesmanship and great game by TJ that set them on the path for a blowout.

I'd say Game 7 goes to OKC with ease but the Pacers might have one more game in them. This has been a fun series.

You’re questioning if Haliburton actually has a calf strain? lol.

[HumbleRen]

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S/o to the guy who said Pacers depth was just average lol.

[GoRapstheoriginal]

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S/o to the guy who said Pacers depth was just average lol.

Can they overcome 84 Lakers for 2nd!!?!? No f*cking way they get #1 from the 2014 Spurs.

956 points! JFC! WOWOOWOWOWOWO!

[Pointgod]

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S/o to the guy who said Pacers depth was just average lol.

Jesus that’s ridiculous

[kwajo]

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S/o to the guy who said Pacers depth was just average lol.

Jesus Manu is ridiculous

FTFY

[Los_29]

Been a fun finals. Enjoyed every minute of it. Hard not to like Indiana. They did an amazing job of building their team. Just a team full of guys drafted in the late lottery or outside the lottery. And their team just fits together perfectly. OKC also has a team full of late lottery or outside the lottery guys. OKC’s two best players, SGA and Jdubs were involved in that George trade then Presti added Dort, Caruso, Cason, Hartenstein and Chet. Chet’s the only top 5 pick on both teams.

Depth is key. You can’t win without it which is why it’s surprising to see some teams like Phoenix going all-in when they don’t have any of it.

We are in a good position but we need to make sure we hit on some of these younger players like Walter, Shead, Dick and then our 9th overall pick. If they hit then that puts us in a position to go out and get our superstar. Parity has never been like this. Even a team like Orlando can finish at the top of the East next year with their Bane deal.

[WuTang_CMB]

game 7
lets goo

[ATLTimekeeper]

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S/o to the guy who said Pacers depth was just average lol.

Jesus that’s ridiculous

5 of the top 10 teams are from the last 10 years. Does anyone actually think TJ McConnell or Alex Caruso belong in the same conversation as Bob McAdoo?

[djsunyc]

[HumbleRen]

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S/o to the guy who said Pacers depth was just average lol.

Jesus that’s ridiculous

5 of the top 10 teams are from the last 10 years. Does anyone actually think TJ McConnell or Alex Caruso belong in the same conversation as Bob McAdoo?

You can feel however you feel about them. They’re breaking records.

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Incredible bench performances from the bench.