2025 Offseason Season Thread Vol. 2

[HeatFanLifer]

I look at the wins a player provides. KD may put up stats, but how many wins did his team get last season? 36. The year before that 49 as a sixth seed then first round sweep out of playoffs. If he was an up and coming player, one could argue it’s part of the process of growing with the team. But KD is supposed to be a win now player. The last two seasons in the win column are not impressive.

Do yall ever take time to look at the teams around certain players? If the role players are ideal fits. Coaching. Defensive scheme. Offensive scheme. Etc? Was Butler impressive in the win column befire going to the finals with the Heat?

Yes. KD was brought in as a win now player. If the fit was not ideal, he could have told the Suns to piss off when the trade options were discussed. He chose to go there.

[Lennyzinho]

Do yall ever take time to look at the teams around certain players? If the role players are ideal fits. Coaching. Defensive scheme. Offensive scheme. Etc? Was Butler impressive in the win column befire going to the finals with the Heat?

Warriors replaced Wiggins with Jimmy and they went 17-3 in the regular season or something ridiculous like that when they were a sub .500 team beforehand. Jimmy is a G. We all saw it first hand. He just didnt have enough around him. Lowry and duncan will forever be the reason our Jimmy window was ruined. 48M every year locked up in two JAGs (couldve gotten more out of burks and tyus on minimums) when it could've been a legit player to get us over the hump.

Fit and scheme are ofc important. Its why davion was so good for us. Also why wiggins seemed unhappy. He was also hurt (when isnt he), and saw Jimmy winning nonstop in GSW and now he was in miami and we went on a massive losing streak. Can only imagine how that messed him up mentally. He was clearly part of the problem

Jimmy and Durant are clear winners. Sure Durant only has one ring and Jimmy has none but its a team sport. You can be a great player and not win. Ask McDavid and Marino.

You're basically agreeing with what I'm saying lol. Read over my post and the comment I quoted to reply to.

Oh I know, wasn't really arguing with you, more like adding layers and context.

[Lennyzinho]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/280870/Raptors-Not-Willing-To-Include-Jakob-Poeltl-In-Kevin-Durant-Trade

Lmao. What are the Raptors even offering then.
How is poetl off limits. They want to extend him at 3-88 or 4-122?! Thats so gross. Masai is a whacko.
Gave quickley 32.5M per and now gonna give Poetl 30M per...

[greg4012]

I look at the wins a player provides. KD may put up stats, but how many wins did his team get last season? 36. The year before that 49 as a sixth seed then first round sweep out of playoffs. If he was an up and coming player, one could argue it’s part of the process of growing with the team. But KD is supposed to be a win now player. The last two seasons in the win column are not impressive.

Do yall ever take time to look at the teams around certain players? If the role players are ideal fits. Coaching. Defensive scheme. Offensive scheme. Etc? Was Butler impressive in the win column befire going to the finals with the Heat?

Yes. KD was brought in as a win now player. If the fit was not ideal, he could have told the Suns to piss off when the trade options were discussed. He chose to go there.

That seems an entirely separate conversation compared to his impact on winning and the context in which it's optimized.

[greg4012]

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[MettaWorldPanda]

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[inhabitMiami]

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I'm fine with this but if we're giving 2 picks I'd rather keep Wiggins.

[DayofMourning]

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I wonder if we arent including Jovic. Weve spent some seasons developing him. Maybe the Heat see a higher ceiling with him.

[DayofMourning]

Duncan, Terry, JJJ and 2030ish pick.

Draft Saraf.

Keep Wiggins to help load manage KD.

[Hoops3355]

This is gonna be Wiggins, Duncan, Highsmith and 20th pick isn’t it!? I bet you that is Pat’s offer!

Saves the Suns 1 million out the gate ($53.7 going their way and $54.7 coming out way), plus whatever savings they get from waving Duncan. It’s also very similar to the Butler package.

Yeah that was the rumored deal on Wednesday. Think if we add a swap we get it done. Do any pre 2028 swap and yolo it. Blow it completely up in 2028.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

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From one franchise cornerstone to the next.

Patrick I am begging you, get someone who can playmake/throw lobs at the level of even a borderline washed Wade and I’ll be happy.

[MettaWorldPanda]

O’Neale and Martin can be aggregated in this but we need to retain Duncan for our own cap savings. Wiggins, Rozier, JJJ, and Keshad Johnson clears. Jovic over JJJ also works with Larrson or KJ

[Hoops3355]

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I wonder if we arent including Jovic. Weve spent some seasons developing him. Maybe the Heat see a higher ceiling with him.

I just don't see Pat actually offering any of the young guys. I you can see how in love Spo is with that group. Jovic specifically just makes no sense given their EFFORT with Caron Butler etc, at the same time they did trade him CB for Shaq so Pat's done it before. I just think Jovic is like right there and if he cab stay healthy get a little run going he might finally make that jump. There's been so many flashes last season and he wants it. Imo we already have him locked into 3/30m too so

[wade44]

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If that’s all it takes fuggit why not. The teams not tanking so might as well make things remotely interesting if we’re stuck truth this core

[3ammy3uck3ts]

O’Neale and Martin can be aggregated in this but we need to retain Duncan for our own cap savings. Wiggins, Rozier, JJJ, and Keshad Johnson clears.

They CAN be? What am I missing here?

[SA37]

I look at the wins a player provides. KD may put up stats, but how many wins did his team get last season? 36. The year before that 49 as a sixth seed then first round sweep out of playoffs. If he was an up and coming player, one could argue it’s part of the process of growing with the team. But KD is supposed to be a win now player. The last two seasons in the win column are not impressive.

Suns were 3-17 in games KD didn't play last year.

Their team construction is also horrid.

So not only is KD not a player who provides wins, but he's injury-prone.

It's just wild to see all the posts that are "yeah, but..." and all the bitching about a 2nd team all-NBA guy juxtaposed with posts of how Davion Mitchell, Dru, Jovic, Larsson, Ware or whoever are going to own the league. Just wild.

[RexBoyWonder]

Here's a crazy thought - instead of haggling with the Suns about which young players and how many picks we're gonna lose to get Durant -

How about we just wait a year and he can sign here for free into our cap space? and we'll lose nothing.
Unless you think we're getting to finals with him after the trade THIS YEAR, why the hell can't we wait?

[MettaWorldPanda]

O’Neale and Martin can be aggregated in this but we need to retain Duncan for our own cap savings. Wiggins, Rozier, JJJ, and Keshad Johnson clears.

They CAN be? What am I missing here?

Some cap gymnastics and roster cost chit. We basically take them out of the first apron by using our current cap space go to fanspo and punch it in. You will see the breakdown. Then we get most of it back by releasing Duncan.

Punch in

Wiggins
Rozier
JJJ
KJ

or

Wiggins
Rozier
Jovic
Larrson or KJ

For

O’Neale, Martin, and Durant

Both deals still leave us a few mil in the green but getting Duncan off gives us back 12-14 mil in space back. It’s Andy Elisburg wizardry. Would just have to haggle with the picks from there. It makes more sense just to do this from a roster building standpoint.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

O’Neale and Martin can be aggregated in this but we need to retain Duncan for our own cap savings. Wiggins, Rozier, JJJ, and Keshad Johnson clears.

They CAN be? What am I missing here?

Some cap gymnastics and roster cost chit. We basically take them out of the first apron by using our current cap space go to fanspo and punch it in. You will see the breakdown. Then we get most of it back by releasing Duncan.

Punch in

Wiggins
Rozier
JJJ
KJ

or

Wiggins
Rozier
Jovic
Larrson or KJ

For

O’Neale, Martin, and Durant

Both deals still leave us a few mil in the green but getting Duncan off gives us back 12-14 mil in space back. It’s Andy Elisburg wizardry. Would just have to haggle with the picks from there. It makes more sense just to do this from a roster building standpoint.

Getting Royce would be huge, he’s the crowder/tucker mold Spo loves so much

[MettaWorldPanda]

They CAN be? What am I missing here?

Some cap gymnastics and roster cost chit. We basically take them out of the first apron by using our current cap space go to fanspo and punch it in. You will see the breakdown. Then we get most of it back by releasing Duncan.

Punch in

Wiggins
Rozier
JJJ
KJ

or

Wiggins
Rozier
Jovic
Larrson or KJ

For

O’Neale, Martin, and Durant

Both deals still leave us a few mil in the green but getting Duncan off gives us back 12-14 mil in space back. It’s Andy Elisburg wizardry. Would just have to haggle with the picks from there. It makes more sense just to do this from a roster building standpoint.

Getting Royce would be huge, he’s the crowder/tucker mold Spo loves so much

I couldn’t believe this till i punched it in myself. Saw someone on heat twitter bring this up. Once i saw trade accepted i was like wow lol. Key to making this work is no Duncan but Suns get their back door savings anyway and so do we.