2024-2025 College Basketball / NBA Draft - Volume III

[Mik317]

damn near everyone on the Pacers are good defenders imo

[eyeatoma]

generally guys who go from bad defenders on lower levels to good defenders in the NBA are guys whose scoring or playmaking doesn't fully translate and they have to adjust to survive.

my current stance is that VJ has the highest floor of all of the guys rumored to us. Seems like most take that for him not having a high ceiling which I don't agree with. If you are going to give Tre grace that he will be more than a shooter and that his testing was legit, or that Ace will become a better ball handler, decision maker, and also shooter and its all due to nba training, spacing and the fact that their teams weren't good....then you kinda have to give VJ that same grace, no?

The difference ATM is that even if VJ is just "VJ Melton" at the end of the day...that is still a damn good player who fits on a ton of teams whereas Tre, Ace and Kon's "floors" are a bit shakier IMO as they are more reliant on their offense translating to be fully valuable....which is probably why VJ is in the lead atm internally.

BTW I voted for Tre on the poll so its not even bias talking but yeah some of yall give your "guys" more leeway than you do VJ lol.

I'm willing to take Tre even if he's horrible on D, that's how good I think he'll be as an offensive player. I'm not giving leeway, I know he'll likely be bad.

[eyeatoma]

damn near everyone on the Pacers are good defenders imo

Pacers were ranked 14th in the league defensively for the regular season. They are an average defensive team.

[ProcessDoctor]

Have developed a little bit of a crush on Cedric Coward. Wish we got to watch him play against real competition.

Could be a total dud, or the next Kawhi Leonard.

[eyeatoma]

I just think from a statistical standpoint (which everyone hates) VJ displays more paths to superstardom. Tre doesn’t display the handles or distribution of those mega offensive prospects that require a ton of coverage from the rest of the lineup on defense. VJ also provides something this team doesn’t have: off ball rim pressure with dynamic playmaking. I know fit isn’t the focus, but do we anticipate Tre getting to a level where he should be taking the ball out of Maxey’s hands? I don’t. Harper I could believe, not Tre.

Maxey isn't that good to be having the ball in his hands as a playmaker. McCain might be better there, so the bar isn't that high, and we all know Tyrese is better offball.

Harper sure, but it's going to be limited if he can't keep defences honest with his jumpshot. Harper screams bust to me with his underwhelming athleticism and abysmal shooting.

These hyper athletes scare me because they are often hurt, or have their careers shortened because of catastrophic injuries. VJ absolutely is getting by on that athleticism right now, where Tre has a lot more skill to his game. If I have to think career longevity, I'm picking Tre over VJ.

[youngcrev]

Have developed a little bit of a crush on Cedric Coward. Wish we got to watch him play against real competition.

Could be a total dud, or the next Kawhi Leonard.

I fall in love with every the next Kawhi Leonard. Just getting over my breakup with Patrick Williams

[okboomer]

I’ve already made myself clear on my issues with Tre over the past couple of weeks so I’ll just say one last thing and let it go until the draft. Ultimately, I think effort is a real skill - not just something you can turn on when you feel like it. PJ Tucker was on a pod a couple years ago talking about how people don’t understand how hard it is to consistently come with max effort, even when your not touching the ball & your shot isn’t falling.

I don’t think effort (at least defensively) is a skill that Tre possesses and I’m skeptical he can acquire it. He hasn’t displayed it at in HS or college and probably won’t after he’s drafted top 5 with a contract around $10M.

Im pretty sure Zach Lowe said something similar about what TJ said recently. How effort is a skill. Im not sure how easy it is to just exert effort like it's a switch. I like Tre, would be fine with them taking him though I really think their should be some real concerns about his effort defensively and rebounding. He is 6'6 with a 6'10 wingspan, he should be getting more rebounds and to me that shows a lack of effort.

Explain to me why Derek and Kyle both have Sixers taking Tre Johnson, as well as the latest Zach Lowe Podcast?

Are we really equating rebounding to being good now? Andre Drummond is one of the best rebounders in the world, and barely gets any playing time. In the end its is your skills good enough where the team can afford having you on the floor inspite of your deficiencies. I think Tre Johnson absolutely can with his scoring ability. There hasn't been as good a shooter as Tre since Steph and Klay came out.

Where did I type rebounding equals being good? The point is that many others have brought up is that he doesnt defend and rebound. If he showed more of a willingness maybe he could potentially be drafted 2nd. The fact of the matter is in today's NBA if you are a weak link defensively you will be played off the floor in the playoffs unless you are nuclear offensive player (which is very rare). He just needs to be competent on the defensive end, if the 76ers think he will be then I could see them drafting him.

[Mik317]

damn near everyone on the Pacers are good defenders imo

Pacers were ranked 14th in the league defensively for the regular season. They are an average defensive team.

have not been the case in the playoffs plus they got off to a bad start.

My point is that they don't play guys who give poor effort on that end which is the main thing.

[eyeatoma]

Im pretty sure Zach Lowe said something similar about what TJ said recently. How effort is a skill. Im not sure how easy it is to just exert effort like it's a switch. I like Tre, would be fine with them taking him though I really think their should be some real concerns about his effort defensively and rebounding. He is 6'6 with a 6'10 wingspan, he should be getting more rebounds and to me that shows a lack of effort.

Explain to me why Derek and Kyle both have Sixers taking Tre Johnson, as well as the latest Zach Lowe Podcast?

Are we really equating rebounding to being good now? Andre Drummond is one of the best rebounders in the world, and barely gets any playing time. In the end its is your skills good enough where the team can afford having you on the floor inspite of your deficiencies. I think Tre Johnson absolutely can with his scoring ability. There hasn't been as good a shooter as Tre since Steph and Klay came out.

Where did I type rebounding equals being good? The point is that many others have brought up is that he doesnt defend and rebound. If he showed more of a willingness maybe he could potentially be drafted 2nd. The fact of the matter is in today's NBA if you are a weak link defensively you will be played off the floor in the playoffs unless you are nuclear offensive player (which is very rare). He just needs to be competent on the defensive end, if the 76ers think he will be then I could see them drafting him.

Tre could be a nuclear offensive player.

[okboomer]

damn near everyone on the Pacers are good defenders imo

Pacers were ranked 14th in the league defensively for the regular season. They are an average defensive team.

have not been the case in the playoffs plus they got off to a bad start.

My point is that they don't play guys who give poor effort on that end which is the main thing.

They were 10th in defensive rating since the January 1st til the end of the year in 48 games (went 34-14). They were 21st prior to that and were 16-18. Had a bad 2 months of the season to start. They are a pretty good defensive team and have been in 2025.

[eyeatoma]

VJ played against more top 50 defenses. For all the hype of the SEC (and I’m one of the fan boys), they were pretty bad defensively comparatively speaking.

People can throw all the stats out there, but the chasm in shooting from Tre and VJ is like comparing Nikola Jokic to Kelly Olynk. Yeah they're both good passing big men, but there are levels here.

Tre is 1 of 1, and Vj, is a good set shooter. Even in the most optimistic timelines VJ will not be a pure shooter. The sky is the limit for Tre as far as offense goes.

Big chasm in shooting, and VJ does everything else better. The shooting chasm between Lillard and Jimmy Butler is huge… because they’re different players. It’s a confusing point to make because shooting isn’t the only aspect of the game.

I brought it up because stats were cited trying to show how VJ is a better shooter or performs statistically better or equal.

[Mik317]

but what if he isn't a nuclear offensive player

[Negrodamus]

People can throw all the stats out there, but the chasm in shooting from Tre and VJ is like comparing Nikola Jokic to Kelly Olynk. Yeah they're both good passing big men, but there are levels here.

Tre is 1 of 1, and Vj, is a good set shooter. Even in the most optimistic timelines VJ will not be a pure shooter. The sky is the limit for Tre as far as offense goes.

Big chasm in shooting, and VJ does everything else better. The shooting chasm between Lillard and Jimmy Butler is huge… because they’re different players. It’s a confusing point to make because shooting isn’t the only aspect of the game.

I brought it up because stats were cited trying to show how VJ is a better shooter or performs statistically better or equal.

I think the stats suggest he’s not anywhere in the realm of Melton or Zhaire and he’s closer to Tre than those guys because he put up very good shooting splits after the beginning of his season. But when talking about VJ, everyone uses hyperbole about his game: no handle, no shot, etc

[Mik317]

are we even linked to Tre lol.

Trying to trade up for Harper, Linked to VJ, wanted Ace in on a visit, Zoomin with Kon...

hmmmm

CMB from the top ropes confirmed

[eyeatoma]

but what if he isn't a nuclear offensive player

And what if VJ doesn't improve offensively?

VJ Melton...

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[Iverson Armband]

are we even linked to Tre lol.

Trying to trade up for Harper, Linked to VJ, wanted Ace in on a visit, Zoomin with Kon...

hmmmm

CMB from the top ropes confirmed

No, and that’s just how Morey likes it

[Iverson Armband]

Go ahead, draft VJ. Seems people are hard headed and still haven’t learned their lesson from Springer or Zhaire Smith, thinking a guy can develop a handle and off dribble shooting just from good character lol. Wouldn’t bet on it.

[eyeatoma]

Go ahead, draft VJ. Seems people are hard headed and still haven’t learned their lesson from Springer or Zhaire Smith, thinking a guy can develop a handle and off dribble shooting just from good character lol. Wouldn’t bet on it.

It's mind boggling.

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[eyeatoma]

Big chasm in shooting, and VJ does everything else better. The shooting chasm between Lillard and Jimmy Butler is huge… because they’re different players. It’s a confusing point to make because shooting isn’t the only aspect of the game.

I brought it up because stats were cited trying to show how VJ is a better shooter or performs statistically better or equal.

I think the stats suggest he’s not anywhere in the realm of Melton or Zhaire and he’s closer to Tre than those guys because he put up very good shooting splits after the beginning of his season. But when talking about VJ, everyone uses hyperbole about his game: no handle, no shot, etc

Come on man. In no way shape or form is he closer to Tre. He's a good shooter. Tre could be the next Ray Allen or Klay shooting wise.

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[eyeatoma]

are we even linked to Tre lol.

Trying to trade up for Harper, Linked to VJ, wanted Ace in on a visit, Zoomin with Kon...

hmmmm

CMB from the top ropes confirmed

No, and that’s just how Morey likes it

This

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