Tom Thibodeau fired pt 2

[MrDollarBills]

Brunson isn't a selfish player....a guy who took a paycut to get more talent in here isn't selfish in my opinion.

Bluntson said it best:

Brunson was running Tom's "read and react" offense which led to a lot of ISOs, contested shots and no ball movement.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Those isos didn't happen as often when he was out. So his reads are largely self-interested. No real.difference from Kobe, Michael or Shai. Thiae guys won when they let others have early rouches, though.

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I'll say the same here as I just did to sham, I don't think this is necessarily the case of Brunson hijacking the offense to get his and more about this is how Tom wanted us to play. Not much different from the Derrick Rose offense in Chicago.

If Tom wanted Jalen to swing the ball more instead of iso, I think he would have followed instruction.

[prophet_of_rage]

Brunson isn't a selfish player....a guy who took a paycut to get more talent in here isn't selfish in my opinion.

Bluntson said it best:

Brunson was running Tom's "read and react" offense which led to a lot of ISOs, contested shots and no ball movement.

Nothing more, nothing less.

I have no problem with how Brunson plays.

But if it’s all Thibs like you say, why is it that we didn’t play that way when he was out for a month ?

I don't either. If I had one criticism, it would be that he should focus on creating for the others and getting them going early. Now, if guys don't have it, then he needs to take over.

I can't answer your question honestly because i don't know. It's a good one. I don't know why we were sharing the ball and OG/Mikal looked golden, and then when he came back everything became stagnant.

Is that Jalen coming back and doing whatever he wants, or was that by design because Tom wants the ball in his hands all the time? I lean towards the latter. Brunson doesn't strike me as the type to go awol on the coach.

See the problem with the Tom's offence argument is this is how Brunson tried to play at FIBA and got limited for it. Josh Hart played more than him because he was willing to move the ball. Brunson is prideful like Kobe. I think he believes he is doing what is best to win and I think he does feel himself. Watxh his podcast and you'll see that attitude. He ian't a guy that laughs at himself.but he's conatantly putting doen others. Josh will laugh at himaelf and Jalen.

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[Adelheid]

knicks need chris paul as backup much more than the need to make tyler kolek the backup pg; i feel this can fix jalen's style.

[Barcs]

definitley very excited to see what our offense will look like.

regarding the usage its pretty much a myth. in the regular season brunson had a 28.9 usage while trae and jokic were 28.5. its not like brunson dribbles the clock out every time. sga had a 33 which is a much higher rate. but noone complains about him being selfish. so yea its all narratives and barbershop talk at this point.

brunson isnt even in the top 20 in terms of usage rate for the regular season.

//edit

nvm i stand corrected.. he is exactly 20th for the regular season. and considering his league ranking as a player (which most people likely have him in the 10-15 range), is a fair spot for him i think.

It isn't myth. It's stylistic. Shai, Trae are in heliocentric offences with running athletes, lob catching bigs. Brinson's starters all need to bounce the ball to get into their stuff. There's a reason we got an offensive explosion out of OG with Brunson out.

You can't play the Knicks starters the same way you can thebHawks or Thunder or Pacers or Nuggets. That's the feel stuff that won't show in numbers.

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Just move on. He's not selfish. He ran Thibs offense. Which sucked.

They were the 9th ranked offense in the league. Not bad, but not top 5.

[NoStatsGuy]

Brunson isn't a selfish player....a guy who took a paycut to get more talent in here isn't selfish in my opinion.

Bluntson said it best:

Brunson was running Tom's "read and react" offense which led to a lot of ISOs, contested shots and no ball movement.

Nothing more, nothing less.

I have no problem with how Brunson plays.

But if it’s all Thibs like you say, why is it that we didn’t play that way when he was out for a month ?

because we dont have an NBA caliber guard when brunson is out. and mikal, og, kat cannot run thibs offense as ballhandlers. we have deuce but obviously thibs didnt trust deuce enough. i still believe in him but he cant do what brunson does.

i wish everything in life would be as easy to explain as pointing the finger at one guy and there we have it. its not as black and white. its not either thibs fault or brunsons fault. its a combination of things.

once thing is very very clear tho. brunson is not a selfish player, if people dont wanan see that i dont know what to say anymore. he sacrificed his shots, he has a very good assist number for the type of team we are, hes passing the ball more than most point guards and he took a paycut to strenghten the team in this window.

but i guess poeple ignore all that and just fish for some advanced stats or "feel" type of things that explain their story

[HopelessKnick]

Brunson isn't a selfish player....a guy who took a paycut to get more talent in here isn't selfish in my opinion.

Bluntson said it best:

Brunson was running Tom's "read and react" offense which led to a lot of ISOs, contested shots and no ball movement.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Those isos didn't happen as often when he was out. So his reads are largely self-interested. No real.difference from Kobe, Michael or Shai. Thiae guys won when they let others have early rouches, though.

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I'll say the same here as I just did to sham, I don't think this is necessarily the case of Brunson hijacking the offense to get his and more about this is how Tom wanted us to play. Not much different from the Derrick Rose offense in Chicago.

If Tom wanted Jalen to swing the ball more instead of iso, I think he would have followed instruction.

I completely agree, especially since Brunson is good off the catch as well. He is not like Luka who really is not a good catch and shoot guy. Brunson could if needed model his game a bit more like Curry with a lot of off-ball movement. I have zero doubt about his willingness and adaptability.

I guess I can talk myself into Taylor Jenkins. With Memphis I always had the impression that if there team was healthy they were a top 3 team in the west and top 5 league-wide. And really their team does not stand out in talent all that much. Morant has been super injury prone lately next to his off court stuff. Does anybody know what their record has been the last 3 years when Morant, Bane and JJJ were on the court together? I believe it must have been very very good.

Damn I just asked chatgpt....they only played about 60 games together on the court in the last 3 seasons....Their record is loosely something like 43-21...which is pretty good. Last season they played only 8 games together and yet won close to 50 games.....

[HopelessKnick]

I mean with all the first options inavailable this could also be an opportunity to give the job to Bryant and see if we may strike gold..if yes then great, everyone will praise Leon for being courageous and creative and if not you try next offseason where likely one of those coaches will become available...something like Bryant + JVG as top defensive assistant (someone that knows the NY market and the pressures and can orchestrate a good defense and is experienced so that Bryant can heavily lean on him with any help he needs)...

[Jalen Bluntson]

It isn't myth. It's stylistic. Shai, Trae are in heliocentric offences with running athletes, lob catching bigs. Brinson's starters all need to bounce the ball to get into their stuff. There's a reason we got an offensive explosion out of OG with Brunson out.

You can't play the Knicks starters the same way you can thebHawks or Thunder or Pacers or Nuggets. That's the feel stuff that won't show in numbers.

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Just move on. He's not selfish. He ran Thibs offense. Which sucked.

They were the 9th ranked offense in the league. Not bad, but not top 5.

As a result of the talent not the system.

[Kampuchea]

Just move on. He's not selfish. He ran Thibs offense. Which sucked.

They were the 9th ranked offense in the league. Not bad, but not top 5.

As a result of the talent not the system.

Incorrect, Thibs had them excelling with a weak roster.

[Kampuchea]

Brunson is not a great facilitator, great scorer though. And not selfish, just playing to his strengths.

[Jalen Bluntson]

They were the 9th ranked offense in the league. Not bad, but not top 5.

As a result of the talent not the system.

Incorrect, Thibs had them excelling with a weak roster.

Wrong. Thibs cost us a shot at the title because of his terrible coaching decisions. His BS offense. His BS rotations. His BS usage of the bench. He is a good coach to turn things around. He will never be a championship level coach. That's why he's unemployed.

[Billy Goat]

I mean with all the first options inavailable this could also be an opportunity to give the job to Bryant and see if we may strike gold..if yes then great, everyone will praise Leon for being courageous and creative and if not you try next offseason where likely one of those coaches will become available...something like Bryant + JVG as top defensive assistant (someone that knows the NY market and the pressures and can orchestrate a good defense and is experienced so that Bryant can heavily lean on him with any help he needs)...

Bro you are honestly thinking JVG is coming back to the Knicks…to be an assistant?

[Billy Goat]

As a result of the talent not the system.

Incorrect, Thibs had them excelling with a weak roster.

Wrong. Thibs cost us a shot at the title because of his terrible coaching decisions. His BS offense. His BS rotations. His BS usage of the bench. He is a good coach to turn things around. He will never be a championship level coach. That's why he's unemployed.

The Knicks outproduced what their roster was. He’s the best coach they could have had. Now there will certainly be a downgrade. Mike Brown? Good GOD

[Jalen Bluntson]

Incorrect, Thibs had them excelling with a weak roster.

Wrong. Thibs cost us a shot at the title because of his terrible coaching decisions. His BS offense. His BS rotations. His BS usage of the bench. He is a good coach to turn things around. He will never be a championship level coach. That's why he's unemployed.

The Knicks outproduced what their roster was. He’s the best coach they could have had. Now there will certainly be a downgrade. Mike Brown? Good GOD

I'd rather watch someone club seals than watch another year of Thibs.

[Barcs]

Just move on. He's not selfish. He ran Thibs offense. Which sucked.

They were the 9th ranked offense in the league. Not bad, but not top 5.

As a result of the talent not the system.

They had the most shallow bench in the league. Being 9th is amazing considering the holes on the roster. Thanks for reminding me.

[Barcs]

As a result of the talent not the system.

Incorrect, Thibs had them excelling with a weak roster.

Wrong. Thibs cost us a shot at the title because of his terrible coaching decisions. His BS offense. His BS rotations. His BS usage of the bench. He is a good coach to turn things around. He will never be a championship level coach. That's why he's unemployed.

I didn't realize Thibs was telepathically altering the trajectory of shots and causing Haliburton's shot to bounce in and caused numerous free throw misses down the stretch and Kat failing to use his brain and be aware of the shot clock.

[Kampuchea]

Incorrect, Thibs had them excelling with a weak roster.

Wrong. Thibs cost us a shot at the title because of his terrible coaching decisions. His BS offense. His BS rotations. His BS usage of the bench. He is a good coach to turn things around. He will never be a championship level coach. That's why he's unemployed.

I didn't realize Thibs was telepathically altering the trajectory of shots and causing Haliburton's shot to bounce in and caused numerous free throw misses down the stretch and Kat failing to use his brain and be aware of the shot clock.

[3toheadmelo]

They were the 9th ranked offense in the league. Not bad, but not top 5.

As a result of the talent not the system.

Incorrect, Thibs had them excelling with a weak roster.

Yep. We exceeded expectations with a very flawed roster. Thibs was amazing.

[Jalen Bluntson]

No

[thebuzzardman]

Brunson isn't a selfish player....a guy who took a paycut to get more talent in here isn't selfish in my opinion.

Bluntson said it best:

Brunson was running Tom's "read and react" offense which led to a lot of ISOs, contested shots and no ball movement.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Those isos didn't happen as often when he was out. So his reads are largely self-interested. No real.difference from Kobe, Michael or Shai. Thiae guys won when they let others have early rouches, though.

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I'll say the same here as I just did to sham, I don't think this is necessarily the case of Brunson hijacking the offense to get his and more about this is how Tom wanted us to play. Not much different from the Derrick Rose offense in Chicago.

If Tom wanted Jalen to swing the ball more instead of iso, I think he would have followed instruction.

Don't try arguing with the "It's Brunson's Fault" crowd. Everything wrong with the Knicks is on Brunson.