2024-2025 College Basketball / NBA Draft - Volume III

[eyeatoma]

Big chasm in shooting, and VJ does everything else better. The shooting chasm between Lillard and Jimmy Butler is huge… because they’re different players. It’s a confusing point to make because shooting isn’t the only aspect of the game.

I brought it up because stats were cited trying to show how VJ is a better shooter or performs statistically better or equal.

I think the stats suggest he’s not anywhere in the realm of Melton or Zhaire and he’s closer to Tre than those guys because he put up very good shooting splits after the beginning of his season. But when talking about VJ, everyone uses hyperbole about his game: no handle, no shot, etc

And you're just waving off his start of the season. He had to rework his shot because he got too swole which is what his trainer said. Tre has been shooting his butter smooth shot and perfected it over years. He has taken 35000 shots this off-season.



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[Mik317]

but what if he isn't a nuclear offensive player

And what is VJ doesn't improve offensively?

VJ Melton...

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That is still a good starter lol because he is more athletic and not 6'2.

Is it top 3 worthy? No for sure but considering his floor is 4, you either take him at 3 or you don't get him at all.

HOWEVER I don't think thats "all" he will be tho. Think he either becomes a better shooter than expected or there is a slight creation bump. Thats at minimum...at probable unlikely but still possible, he has potential Ant Edwards or even Wade upside again not likely but if Tre is getting Ray Allen comps and Ace his TMac or Durant comps...let's be consistant at least.

Again its the "fact" (i put it in quotes because as we know **** happens) VJ's at minimum is a good starter more than likely based off of tape and stats whereas Tre has some Jordan Hawkins outcomes and Ace has some Cam Reddish outcomes IMO (again based on tape and stats) in large part due to his physical gifts and tertiary aspects to his game is what makes him a better bet to some imo. The fact that he is willing to play off ball alone is a benefit as we have seen this year alone imo.

AGain tho who **** knows at the end of the day lol. For all we know VJ is a secret **** or **** whereas Carter Bryant is actually Kobe Bryant lol.

and again my bitch ass would def take the bet that Tre is THAT good of a shooter that nothing else matters lol.

and again again I am still salty about those Harper leaks as his tape is the tape that makes me the most excited as I don't have any concerns about his shooting (which may be the kiss of death for him actually lol)

[Mik317]

Go ahead, draft VJ. Seems people are hard headed and still haven’t learned their lesson from Springer or Zhaire Smith, thinking a guy can develop a handle and off dribble shooting just from good character lol. Wouldn’t bet on it.

VJ is a better athlete and shooter than Springer. Zhaire damn near died. Its a bad comp and not the same at all. VJ literally got better as a shooter THIS SEASON due to his character....like that is a proven thing lol not even a projection thing...that legit happened in season due to him going to his coaches, being coached, adjusting and then seeing results.

[eyeatoma]

but what if he isn't a nuclear offensive player

And what is VJ doesn't improve offensively?

VJ Melton...

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That is still a good starter lol because he is more athletic and not 6'2.

Is it top 3 worthy? No for sure but considering his floor is 4, you either take him at 3 or you don't get him at all.

HOWEVER I don't think thats "all" he will be tho. Think he either becomes a better shooter than expected or there is a slight creation bump. Thats at minimum...at probable unlikely but still possible, he has potential Ant Edwards or even Wade upside again not likely but if Tre is getting Ray Allen comps and Ace his TMac or Durant comps...let's be consistant at least.

Again its the "fact" (i put it in quotes because as we know **** happens) VJ's at minimum is a good starter more than likely based off of tape and stats whereas Tre has some Jordan Hawkins outcomes and Ace has some Cam Reddish outcomes IMO (again based on tape and stats) in large part due to his physical gifts and tertiary aspects to his game is what makes him a better bet to some imo. The fact that he is willing to play off ball alone is a benefit as we have seen this year alone imo.

AGain tho who **** knows at the end of the day lol. For all we know VJ is a secret **** or **** whereas Carter Bryant is actually Kobe Bryant lol.

and again my bitch ass would def take the bet that Tre is THAT good of a shooter that nothing else matters lol.

and again again I am still salty about those Harper leaks as his tape is the tape that makes me the most excited as I don't have any concerns about his shooting (which may be the kiss of death for him actually lol)

Not sure how your have rose colored glasses for VJ but not for Tre whose game is very esthetically pleasing. The reason we're linked for Harper is Morey prefers him to VJ. If he's that good why isn't he going 2nd?

Have you all not learned your lesson over athletic players who aren't great shooters or have no bag? Especially on this team?



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[Iverson Armband]

And what is VJ doesn't improve offensively?

VJ Melton...

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That is still a good starter lol because he is more athletic and not 6'2.

Is it top 3 worthy? No for sure but considering his floor is 4, you either take him at 3 or you don't get him at all.

HOWEVER I don't think thats "all" he will be tho. Think he either becomes a better shooter than expected or there is a slight creation bump. Thats at minimum...at probable unlikely but still possible, he has potential Ant Edwards or even Wade upside again not likely but if Tre is getting Ray Allen comps and Ace his TMac or Durant comps...let's be consistant at least.

Again its the "fact" (i put it in quotes because as we know **** happens) VJ's at minimum is a good starter more than likely based off of tape and stats whereas Tre has some Jordan Hawkins outcomes and Ace has some Cam Reddish outcomes IMO (again based on tape and stats) in large part due to his physical gifts and tertiary aspects to his game is what makes him a better bet to some imo. The fact that he is willing to play off ball alone is a benefit as we have seen this year alone imo.

AGain tho who **** knows at the end of the day lol. For all we know VJ is a secret **** or **** whereas Carter Bryant is actually Kobe Bryant lol.

and again my bitch ass would def take the bet that Tre is THAT good of a shooter that nothing else matters lol.

and again again I am still salty about those Harper leaks as his tape is the tape that makes me the most excited as I don't have any concerns about his shooting (which may be the kiss of death for him actually lol)

Not sure how your have rose colored glasses for VJ but not for Tre whose game is very esthetically pleasing. The reason we're linked for Harper is Morey prefers him to VJ. If he's that good why isn't he going 2nd?

Have you all not learned your lesson over athletic players who aren't great shooters or have no bag? Especially on this team?



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.

[Negrodamus]

Would commit to the Tre Hield if I care at all about slandering him but I’m an adult.

[Mik317]

because I don't think VJ is a bad shooter and I don't think his handle is that bad. Whereas Tre (who again probably would be the pick I was the GM btw) defense, stiff hips, and potential not willing to be an off ball guy all show up on tape and the stats back that up. That makes VJ an easier sell imo. The worst part of his tape and stats is his finishing which looks more like him taking off too far and too soon which is something every young player has to learn imo....and its learnable whereas stiff hips and poor effort on defense is less easy to fix imo.

Yall keep comparing VJ to our previous misses when none of those guys had the burst VJ has and were all somehow worse shooters than he currently is as well. I also think we need guys who can get in the paint a lot more than just pure shooters imo which is why I am so high on Harper despite his shooting issues. Feel like Maxey, McCain, Grimes, PG and even guys like Edwards give us plenty of spacing and again I don't think VJ will be bad there either as he will be a capable and willing shooter even if not elite % wise imo. But having a guy who teams have to close out on and still worry about the drive is something only Maxey gives us right now (Harper would give us this off the bounce as well imo).

NOW perhaps Tre will also give us this too as with everyone else he will get better with NBA training and if so alongside his shooting that is something special mind you....just feels like that projection doesn't show up on tape or in the stats so again its a tougher sell imo.

also think VJ being able to play the 3 even if not full time does give him a leg up op Tre and Kon imo.

[sodmoraes]

A lot of mocks and analysts are linking us to VJ but i have no clue who will Morey pick. Hell i dont doubt if we still get Bailey..

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[okboomer]

And what is VJ doesn't improve offensively?

VJ Melton...

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That is still a good starter lol because he is more athletic and not 6'2.

Is it top 3 worthy? No for sure but considering his floor is 4, you either take him at 3 or you don't get him at all.

HOWEVER I don't think thats "all" he will be tho. Think he either becomes a better shooter than expected or there is a slight creation bump. Thats at minimum...at probable unlikely but still possible, he has potential Ant Edwards or even Wade upside again not likely but if Tre is getting Ray Allen comps and Ace his TMac or Durant comps...let's be consistant at least.

Again its the "fact" (i put it in quotes because as we know **** happens) VJ's at minimum is a good starter more than likely based off of tape and stats whereas Tre has some Jordan Hawkins outcomes and Ace has some Cam Reddish outcomes IMO (again based on tape and stats) in large part due to his physical gifts and tertiary aspects to his game is what makes him a better bet to some imo. The fact that he is willing to play off ball alone is a benefit as we have seen this year alone imo.

AGain tho who **** knows at the end of the day lol. For all we know VJ is a secret **** or **** whereas Carter Bryant is actually Kobe Bryant lol.

and again my bitch ass would def take the bet that Tre is THAT good of a shooter that nothing else matters lol.

and again again I am still salty about those Harper leaks as his tape is the tape that makes me the most excited as I don't have any concerns about his shooting (which may be the kiss of death for him actually lol)

Not sure how your have rose colored glasses for VJ but not for Tre whose game is very esthetically pleasing. The reason we're linked for Harper is Morey prefers him to VJ. If he's that good why isn't he going 2nd?

Have you all not learned your lesson over athletic players who aren't great shooters or have no bag? Especially on this team?



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Cause Harper is in a class of his own. Youll be hard pressed to find those who think VJ is a better prospect than Harper. The way Harper can use both hands so well and finish is what will make him special.

[eyeatoma]

because I don't think VJ is a bad shooter and I don't think his handle is that bad. Whereas Tre (who again probably would be the pick I was the GM btw) defense, stiff hips, and potential not willing to be an off ball guy all show up on tape and the stats back that up. That makes VJ an easier sell imo. The worst part of his tape and stats is his finishing which looks more like him taking off too far and too soon which is something every young player has to learn imo....and its learnable whereas stiff hips and poor effort on defense is less easy to fix imo.

Yall keep comparing VJ to our previous misses when none of those guys had the burst VJ has and were all somehow worse shooters than he currently is as well. I also think we need guys who can get in the paint a lot more than just pure shooters imo which is why I am so high on Harper despite his shooting issues. Feel like Maxey, McCain, Grimes, PG and even guys like Edwards give us plenty of spacing and again I don't think VJ will be bad there either as he will be a capable and willing shooter even if not elite % wise imo. But having a guy who teams have to close out on and still worry about the drive is something only Maxey gives us right now (Harper would give us this off the bounce as well imo).

NOW perhaps Tre will also give us this too as with everyone else he will get better with NBA training and if so alongside his shooting that is something special mind you....just feels like that projection doesn't show up on tape or in the stats so again its a tougher sell imo.

also think VJ being able to play the 3 even if not full time does give him a leg up op Tre and Kon imo.

Tre is offensively much more polished than Ace. The comp is a lot more likely even though it would be hard to achieve. The two aren't the same.

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[M2J]

Watch on YouTube

[Black Mage]

[x]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=bJcUtOCSwzTqqyZgysWpbQ[/x]

That block tho

Something I keep noticing in more VJ vids; kid's got some on court attitude. Noticed he's an on court talker with some attitude. Like that he took it personal with Thiero picking his pass and staring him down after the block.

[Arsenal]

Big chasm in shooting, and VJ does everything else better. The shooting chasm between Lillard and Jimmy Butler is huge… because they’re different players. It’s a confusing point to make because shooting isn’t the only aspect of the game.

I brought it up because stats were cited trying to show how VJ is a better shooter or performs statistically better or equal.

I think the stats suggest he’s not anywhere in the realm of Melton or Zhaire and he’s closer to Tre than those guys because he put up very good shooting splits after the beginning of his season. But when talking about VJ, everyone uses hyperbole about his game: no handle, no shot, etc

For stat-lusters, the stats show VJ and Zhaire are very similar prospects coming out, with Zhaire actually having better numbers.

Both undersized but explosive SG's that made plays off-ball and in transition, but had rudimentary offensive skills.

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=v-j-edgecombe--zhaire-smith

[FireMorey]

I don't know if people have grappled with just how high the stakes are with this pick.

The situation:

-Sixers likely will not have next year's first rounder(or any picks)
-Sixers owe own 2028 pick to the Nets
-Will likely not be bad enough barring intentionally tanking or injury in the other years again for a top 5 pick.
-Pay roll maxed out

If Embiid comes back healthy - Sixers will contend, but still likely a piece or two short, unless McCain blossoms and the pick this year becomes a legitimate rotational player(or perhaps more than that).

If Embiid doesn't return healthy - the process era is over and it's time to start rebuilding. Maxey and McCain are not close to a strong enough foundation to rebuild with. However, if this pick becomes a legitimate player, have a 3 young stud player foundation to start with is legitimately something.

Irrespective of the player taken with their pick, the spot they're picking can be used to recoup more picks down the road(in a trade down) potentially, to negate some of the above listed issues.

The Sixers pretty much have to nail this pick one way or the other. It could be the difference in winning a title or having a successful rebuild(if Embiid is washed) and this organization just wallowing in nowheresville for the next 5+ years.

Oh, and if they don't nail it, Morey and Nurse could both be fired and then they could be looking at another organizational overhaul and who knows what the hell happens with that.

Whatever you want the Sixers to do on Wednesday night, I hope everyone has these realities in mind.

[Negrodamus]

I brought it up because stats were cited trying to show how VJ is a better shooter or performs statistically better or equal.

I think the stats suggest he’s not anywhere in the realm of Melton or Zhaire and he’s closer to Tre than those guys because he put up very good shooting splits after the beginning of his season. But when talking about VJ, everyone uses hyperbole about his game: no handle, no shot, etc

For stat-lusters, the stats show VJ and Zhaire are very similar prospects coming out, with Zhaire actually having better numbers.

Both undersized but explosive SG's that made plays off-ball and in transition, but had rudimentary offensive skills.

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=v-j-edgecombe--zhaire-smith

Yea, they’re carbon copies if you’re interpreting it on bad faith.

[eyeatoma]

I don't know if people have grappled with just how high the stakes are with this pick.

The situation:

-Sixers likely will not have next year's first rounder(or any picks)
-Sixers owe own 2028 pick to the Nets
-Will likely not be bad enough barring intentionally tanking or injury in the other years again for a top 5 pick.
-Pay roll maxed out

If Embiid comes back healthy - Sixers will contend, but still likely a piece or two short, unless McCain blossoms and the pick this year becomes a legitimate rotational player(or perhaps more than that).

If Embiid doesn't return healthy - the process era is over and it's time to start rebuilding. Maxey and McCain are not close to a strong enough foundation to rebuild with. However, if this pick becomes a legitimate player, have a 3 young stud player foundation to start with is legitimately something.

Irrespective of the player taken with their pick, the spot they're picking can be used to recoup more picks down the road(in a trade down) potentially, to negate some of the above listed issues.

The Sixers pretty much have to nail this pick one way or the other. It could be the difference in winning a title or having a successful rebuild(if Embiid is washed) and this organization just wallowing in nowheresville for the next 5+ years.

Oh, and if they don't nail it, Morey and Nurse could both be fired and then they could be looking at another organizational overhaul and who knows what the hell happens with that.

Whatever you want the Sixers to do on Wednesday night, I hope everyone has these realities in mind.

Who are your top 3 that we can draft? Ignoring Flagg?

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[Arsenal]

I think the stats suggest he’s not anywhere in the realm of Melton or Zhaire and he’s closer to Tre than those guys because he put up very good shooting splits after the beginning of his season. But when talking about VJ, everyone uses hyperbole about his game: no handle, no shot, etc

For stat-lusters, the stats show VJ and Zhaire are very similar prospects coming out, with Zhaire actually having better numbers.

Both undersized but explosive SG's that made plays off-ball and in transition, but had rudimentary offensive skills.

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=v-j-edgecombe--zhaire-smith

Yea, they’re carbon copies if you’re interpreting it on bad faith.

Zhaire was a similar level athlete, one year younger, and two inches longer wingspan, along with the better freshman numbers.

That's reality, not bad faith.

[Mik317]

Smith took 1.4 3s to VJ's 5. VJ is a whole inch taller. And again this is where the actual tape comes into play in which VJ's burst pops. Smith virtually played the 4 in college as well (also came off the bench IIRC)

not to mention Smith also ALMOST **** DIED....so there is also that.

This is where context matters

yall aren't arguing in good faith lol

[eyeatoma]

Smith took 1.4 3s to VJ's 5. VJ is a whole inch taller. And again this is where the actual tape comes into play in which VJ's burst pops. Smith virtually played the 4 in college as well (also came off the bench IIRC)

not to mention Smith also ALMOST **** DIED....so there is also that.

This is where context matters

yall aren't arguing in good faith lol

But to say that VJ can overcome his shooting/scoring issues because he showed improvement in the season?

Improvement isn't linear. That might have been all the improvement that VJ makes. Tre is already probably starter level on offense, and with his 3 point shooting, would be far more valuable offensively. YOu can't say bad faith, but then just assume because VJ showed improvement, after actually janking his shot, that he's got this seamingly boundless fountain of untapped potential. People have done this all offseason with their guy saying that their guy will improve, but every other one won't. In the end non of us will probably be right, but let's not act like people are being rational in fairly assessing strenghts and improvement. Somehow I'm supposed to believe VJs eye test, but shouldn't believe Aces, or Tre's because of VORP? I mean Tre has good avanced stats, but his d is bad, and now none of ya'll want to touch him?

We drafted McCain and Maxey two players not known for defense. Morey would marry Harden, not know for D. Morey is not some defense only analyser. He looks for superstar potential. Both Tre and VJ have it I suppose, atleast an iota, same with Flagg, Harper and Bailey. I was all on Bailey, but he's a jackass, so Tre is the next best option there when we are talking STRICTLY offensively. Funniest thing is Morey keeps his decisions close to his vest, and rarely takes the player that we are often touted to take.

[M2J]

Question:

Would you gents move forward and draft VJ right now if you knew he would become Jalen Suggs?

Legit asking, because I might