12 years ago today Ray Allen hit one of the biggest shots in NBA history

[Diop]

Pops took out Duncan to make the.defense more mobile and switchable, but then no Spurs could secure the rebound which cost the series.

I read somewhere that he still regrets that decision.
A Spurs win would have left the Miami big 3 with only 1 championship, which would have been so sweet after they crowed about how many they were going to win.

[jkvonny]

That was a cool little era then. Spurs/Heat.

2013 was heartbreaking for us Spurs fans.
2014 was relief, vindication, though.

1-1 championship split.

[MrPainfulTruth]

None of what you wrote supports your claim. Yes, we are all aware that without a game tying shot being hit, a team loses.

Again, since when does a team win in a tie? You're the one now trying to claim that a game tying shot equals and automatic win.

The point is that he put his team in a position to lose due to lack of playing up to standards.

If he was crushing it, it would be the team's lack of playing up to standards- hence why we use the word choke. However, judging Lebron individually, he had been playing poorly and even bricked the 3 to tie.

Allen saved him at that point. Allen misses that shot and Lebron wouldn't even be in top 5 conversations.

I remember well that up to that point, Lebron's finals career average was 22 points per game. Jordan's single lowest scoring finals game of his career? 22 points. Hey man, you guys do this by comparing him, not us. Hold him to those standards and so will we.

He made the 3 before that miss though to put his team in a position to win, right?

As for quoting PPG with no context or consideration for efficiency, other offensive and defensive contributions, and without considering the fact that LeBron went to two Finals when he was younger than MJ, it’s gravy.

See how easy narrative bending is? Your turn!

The point is, its a team game. Many people contribute, but for every LBJ team, all glory, all flahlight is 100% reserved for him. His team mates get regularily trashed. You dont hear about Ray, Wade or Bush, who snatched the rebound here. "Wade? Washed. Bosh? Role player. Allen? Old as dirt."

[The4thHorseman]

The point is that he put his team in a position to lose due to lack of playing up to standards.

If he was crushing it, it would be the team's lack of playing up to standards- hence why we use the word choke. However, judging Lebron individually, he had been playing poorly and even bricked the 3 to tie.

Allen saved him at that point. Allen misses that shot and Lebron wouldn't even be in top 5 conversations.

I remember well that up to that point, Lebron's finals career average was 22 points per game. Jordan's single lowest scoring finals game of his career? 22 points. Hey man, you guys do this by comparing him, not us. Hold him to those standards and so will we.

He made the 3 before that miss though to put his team in a position to win, right?

As for quoting PPG with no context or consideration for efficiency, other offensive and defensive contributions, and without considering the fact that LeBron went to two Finals when he was younger than MJ, it’s gravy.

See how easy narrative bending is? Your turn!

The point is, its a team game. Many people contribute, but for every LBJ team, all glory, all flahlight is 100% reserved for him. His team mates get regularily trashed. You dont hear about Ray, Wade or Bush, who snatched the rebound here. "Wade? Washed. Bosh? Role player. Allen? Old as dirt."

Exaggerate much?

[MrPainfulTruth]

He made the 3 before that miss though to put his team in a position to win, right?

As for quoting PPG with no context or consideration for efficiency, other offensive and defensive contributions, and without considering the fact that LeBron went to two Finals when he was younger than MJ, it’s gravy.

See how easy narrative bending is? Your turn!

The point is, its a team game. Many people contribute, but for every LBJ team, all glory, all flahlight is 100% reserved for him. His team mates get regularily trashed. You dont hear about Ray, Wade or Bush, who snatched the rebound here. "Wade? Washed. Bosh? Role player. Allen? Old as dirt."

Exaggerate much?

can you quote some of your older posts praising either of the players i've mentioned? Because i'm sure i can easily find posts where you make exaggerated claims about LBJ

[Bergmaniac]

I knew this thread would be full of idiotic statement by the LeBron haters but as always they managed to crawl below the very low bar I set for them.

[bledredwine]

I knew this thread would be full of idiotic statement by the LeBron haters but as always they managed to crawl below the very low bar I set for them.

Funny, because his fans here are much worse and have ten times as many Jordan threads

[Ito]

Artest shot was one of the best in history too and he saved Kobe’s legacy too against the Celtics like kyrie did for Bron but that doesn’t get talked about at all they even joked about it in the press conference after the game but never got heard from again

[DimesandKnicks]

He made the 3 before that miss though to put his team in a position to win, right?

As for quoting PPG with no context or consideration for efficiency, other offensive and defensive contributions, and without considering the fact that LeBron went to two Finals when he was younger than MJ, it’s gravy.

See how easy narrative bending is? Your turn!

The point is, its a team game. Many people contribute, but for every LBJ team, all glory, all flahlight is 100% reserved for him. His team mates get regularily trashed. You dont hear about Ray, Wade or Bush, who snatched the rebound here. "Wade? Washed. Bosh? Role player. Allen? Old as dirt."

Exaggerate much?

We also don’t hear about LeBron hitting a three maybe a player prior if I recall correctly; it’s Ray Allen saved LeBron’s legacy

[Iwasawitness]

The point is, its a team game. Many people contribute, but for every LBJ team, all glory, all flahlight is 100% reserved for him. His team mates get regularily trashed. You dont hear about Ray, Wade or Bush, who snatched the rebound here. "Wade? Washed. Bosh? Role player. Allen? Old as dirt."

Exaggerate much?

We also don’t hear about LeBron hitting a three maybe a player prior if I recall correctly; it’s Ray Allen saved LeBron’s legacy

That's because people like painful have this weird hate boner for LeBron that gets taken to extreme levels. It's quite comical how much effort is put into distorting reality on his end.

[Iwasawitness]

I knew this thread would be full of idiotic statement by the LeBron haters but as always they managed to crawl below the very low bar I set for them.

The funny thing is, if the LeBron haters in this thread actually turned their brains on and made an attempt at an objective post, they would have a point.

Ray Allen didn't "save" LeBron's legacy. LeBron's legacy wasn't dead set on this series being won. He did save Miami's season. He did hit one of the all time greatest shots in finals history, arguably the greatest. But the problem is this is treated as proof that LeBron wasn't capable of stepping up in the big moment, even though there's already mountains worth of evidence that he could. Hell, Miami was down double digits going into this quarter. LeBron brought them back into the game with Wade sitting on the bench. This continues to be ignored however because LeBron made some costly turnovers and missed a couple shots down the stretch.

We can make statements without having to resort to bull ****. LeBron got Miami back into this game and Ray Allen tied the game and saved their season. Both things are true. You know what else is true? LeBron made some mistakes down the stretch and was clearly Miami's best player in this game.

See that? An objective post that was made using critical thinking and unbiased observation. Take notes LeBron deranged syndrome victims.

[The4thHorseman]

The point is, its a team game. Many people contribute, but for every LBJ team, all glory, all flahlight is 100% reserved for him. His team mates get regularily trashed. You dont hear about Ray, Wade or Bush, who snatched the rebound here. "Wade? Washed. Bosh? Role player. Allen? Old as dirt."

Exaggerate much?

can you quote some of your older posts praising either of the players i've mentioned? Because i'm sure i can easily find posts where you make exaggerated claims about LBJ

What's there to say? Bosh is suppose to get special praise for getting a rebound that bounced right to him and then passes to a wide open Ray? It's called a regular play that happens over a hundred times a season.

Ray making a huge shot is all that needs to be said. Everyone knows what happened after that except for you who claimed it was the game winning shot.

Show me my posts extremely exaggerating about what James had done.

[ChumboChappati]

Read on Twitter

need video embedded in your post so that people don't have to go to other websites to find it

[MrPainfulTruth]

Exaggerate much?

can you quote some of your older posts praising either of the players i've mentioned? Because i'm sure i can easily find posts where you make exaggerated claims about LBJ

What's there to say? Bosh is suppose to get special praise for getting a rebound that bounced right to him and then passes to a wide open Ray? It's called a regular play that happens over a hundred times a season.

Ray making a huge shot is all that needs to be said. Everyone knows what happened after that except for you who claimed it was the game winning shot.

Show me my posts extremely exaggerating about what James had done.

Translation: In the >8,500 posts you made as a leBron stan, you cant quote a single one giving Bosh, Wade, and the elite role players LBJ had - like Ray Allen - their flowers. Thanks for proving my point.

[SportsGuru08]

I knew this thread would be full of idiotic statement by the LeBron haters but as always they managed to crawl below the very low bar I set for them.

The funny thing is, if the LeBron haters in this thread actually turned their brains on and made an attempt at an objective post, they would have a point.

Ray Allen didn't "save" LeBron's legacy.LeBron's legacy wasn't dead set on this series being won. He did save Miami's season. He did hit one of the all time greatest shots in finals history, arguably the greatest. But the problem is this is treated as proof that LeBron wasn't capable of stepping up in the big moment, even though there's already mountains worth of evidence that he could. Hell, Miami was down double digits going into this quarter. LeBron brought them back into the game with Wade sitting on the bench. This continues to be ignored however because LeBron made some costly turnovers and missed a couple shots down the stretch.

We can make statements without having to resort to bull ****. LeBron got Miami back into this game and Ray Allen tied the game and saved their season. Both things are true. You know what else is true? LeBron made some mistakes down the stretch and was clearly Miami's best player in this game.

See that? An objective post that was made using critical thinking and unbiased observation. Take notes LeBron deranged syndrome victims.

Actually it was.Through the first five games, his only strong performance was in Game 4. Through the first three games, he had fewer points than Danny Green. Even in the first three quarters of Game 6, he was pretty lousy. Basically, the majority of the series he played only slightly better than he played in 2011.

So yes, that Ray Allen shot saved his legacy. Because otherwise we're talking about him being 1-3 in the Finals with a superteam, getting clamped by Boris Diaw, and having a repeat of the 2011 choke job.

[The4thHorseman]

can you quote some of your older posts praising either of the players i've mentioned? Because i'm sure i can easily find posts where you make exaggerated claims about LBJ

What's there to say? Bosh is suppose to get special praise for getting a rebound that bounced right to him and then passes to a wide open Ray? It's called a regular play that happens over a hundred times a season.

Ray making a huge shot is all that needs to be said. Everyone knows what happened after that except for you who claimed it was the game winning shot.

Show me my posts extremely exaggerating about what James had done.

Translation: In the >8,500 posts you made as a leBron stan, you cant quote a single one giving Bosh, Wade, and the elite role players LBJ had - like Ray Allen - their flowers. Thanks for proving my point.

Show me my posts where I said Miami was a **** team except for LeBron and no other player deserves credit? You know, like you claimed above that ALL James fans do.

[AlexanderRight]

Of course the shot gets all the attention but it wasn't just the shot. Bosh made of a helluva rebound. And even after, still needed a stop with 5 seconds left, then still had overtime, then still had a Game 7. That's why I always felt like the "Pop's fault/Miracle/ Allen saved legacy talk" was too much. Miami still had to execute after that shot and they did.

[og15]

I knew this thread would be full of idiotic statement by the LeBron haters but as always they managed to crawl below the very low bar I set for them.

The funny thing is, if the LeBron haters in this thread actually turned their brains on and made an attempt at an objective post, they would have a point.

Ray Allen didn't "save" LeBron's legacy. LeBron's legacy wasn't dead set on this series being won. He did save Miami's season. He did hit one of the all time greatest shots in finals history, arguably the greatest. But the problem is this is treated as proof that LeBron wasn't capable of stepping up in the big moment, even though there's already mountains worth of evidence that he could. Hell, Miami was down double digits going into this quarter. LeBron brought them back into the game with Wade sitting on the bench. This continues to be ignored however because LeBron made some costly turnovers and missed a couple shots down the stretch.

We can make statements without having to resort to bull ****. LeBron got Miami back into this game and Ray Allen tied the game and saved their season. Both things are true. You know what else is true? LeBron made some mistakes down the stretch and was clearly Miami's best player in this game.

See that? An objective post that was made using critical thinking and unbiased observation. Take notes LeBron deranged syndrome victims.

EXACTLY!!! This is what I'm constantly trying to get through, it always he's to be some hyperbole or exaggerated stuff (this goes both ways to all the super fans), and then it just makes it become stupid conversation.

I don't even know who the vast amount of people giving Lebron 100% of the credit are (definitely not me lol), because honestly every time we talk about this series, some of the first things mentioned are Bosh's rebound and Allen's three.

Lebron actually was relatively poor in games 1-3, they went 1-2, then he was far better in games 4-7. This is similar to Jordan vs Seattle but the other way around, but winning is winning.

The Bulls went up 3-0, then Jordan relatively struggled in games 4-6, which contributed to it going to 6 games, and in game 6, the Bulls of course were "saved" by the overall team defense, but offensive rebounding was a HUGE part. They committed 19 turnovers, Jordan 5, but they forced 20. They won game 6 offensively on offensive rebounds (+12 OReb) and FT's (+10 FTA) but that's why teams win. If you want to do this useless nitpicking stuff, Jordan was 10-16 from the FT line in game 2, Seattle was +7 in the 4th, and then we can start saying hypothetical stuff like, they "almost" lost, and if, if, if this or that happened, they could have lost the game and the series

Bulls went up 2-0, then went 1-3 vs Indiana to go to game 7. In game 7, offensive rebounds were huge again, 22-5, Jordan had 5 (he was part of it), Pippen had 6. This was a 5 point win, Jordan went 2/7 in the 4th, but he got to the line, and you win with total team contribution, yes. They held Reggie to 1 FGA in the 4th.

Are there not also people who give Jordan "100%" of the credit for his teams wins? It is the same kind of stuff irrespective of the player.

[cupcakesnake]

I knew this thread would be full of idiotic statement by the LeBron haters but as always they managed to crawl below the very low bar I set for them.

The funny thing is, if the LeBron haters in this thread actually turned their brains on and made an attempt at an objective post, they would have a point.

Ray Allen didn't "save" LeBron's legacy. LeBron's legacy wasn't dead set on this series being won. He did save Miami's season. He did hit one of the all time greatest shots in finals history, arguably the greatest. But the problem is this is treated as proof that LeBron wasn't capable of stepping up in the big moment, even though there's already mountains worth of evidence that he could. Hell, Miami was down double digits going into this quarter. LeBron brought them back into the game with Wade sitting on the bench. This continues to be ignored however because LeBron made some costly turnovers and missed a couple shots down the stretch.

We can make statements without having to resort to bull ****. LeBron got Miami back into this game and Ray Allen tied the game and saved their season. Both things are true. You know what else is true? LeBron made some mistakes down the stretch and was clearly Miami's best player in this game.

See that? An objective post that was made using critical thinking and unbiased observation. Take notes LeBron deranged syndrome victims.

EXACTLY!!! This is what I'm constantly trying to get through, it always he's to be some hyperbole or exaggerated stuff (this goes both ways to all the super fans), and then it just makes it become stupid conversation.

I don't even know who the vast amount of people giving Lebron 100% of the credit are (definitely not me lol), because honestly every time we talk about this series, some of the first things mentioned are Bosh's rebound and Allen's three.

Lebron actually was relatively poor in games 1-3, they went 1-2, then he was far better in games 4-7. This is similar to Jordan vs Seattle but the other way around, but winning is winning.

The Bulls went up 3-0, then Jordan relatively struggled in games 4-6, which contributed to it going to 6 games, and in game 6, the Bulls of course were "saved" by the overall team defense, but offensive rebounding was a HUGE part. They committed 19 turnovers, Jordan 5, but they forced 20. They won game 6 offensively on offensive rebounds (+12 OReb) and FT's (+10 FTA) but that's why teams win. If you want to do this useless nitpicking stuff, Jordan was 10-16 from the FT line in game 2, Seattle was +7 in the 4th, and then we can start saying hypothetical stuff like, they "almost" lost, and if, if, if this or that happened, they could have lost the game and the series

Bulls went up 2-0, then went 1-3 vs Indiana to go to game 7. In game 7, offensive rebounds were huge again, 22-5, Jordan had 5 (he was part of it), Pippen had 6. This was a 5 point win, Jordan went 2/7 in the 4th, but he got to the line, and you win with total team contribution, yes. They held Reggie to 1 FGA in the 4th.

Are there not also people who give Jordan "100%" of the credit for his teams wins? It is the same kind of stuff irrespective of the player.

I was such a Lebron hater at the time, and loved those Spurs. Manu and Duncan felt like family by that point, Kawhi was my favorite young player, and Diaw was one of my favorite players ever. I remember DROOLING at the narrative implications of Lebron losing that series, and before Ray's shot everyone thought it was about to happen. Lebron had already won a title, but there was something that felt damning about him losing to the old guys every time (the Spurs beat baby Lebron back in 2007, and then of course there was Dallas in 2011). Beating a younger Thunder felt like not enough to prove Lebron's greatness. I remember this game so vividly. I was drunk at a sports bar, already basically celebrating Lebron's downfall.

This is all just narrative though, and even on the narrative level... it didn't come to pass. The years went by and Lebron consistently piled up monstrous playoff performances. There was never any real case about Lebron's basketball impact, so us haters needed narrative. When Lebron put away a historic Warriors team, there was no longer any compelling narrative of Lebron's failure. This guy was very simply one of the greatest players any of us had ever seen.

It's crazy to me, as someone who used to root for this narrative, that there are still haters clinging to this idea. Lebron is my chosen villain, but the villain won, and the victors write history. My fellow haters still clinging to an alternative reality is something I consistently find embarrassing.

[MrPainfulTruth]

What's there to say? Bosh is suppose to get special praise for getting a rebound that bounced right to him and then passes to a wide open Ray? It's called a regular play that happens over a hundred times a season.

Ray making a huge shot is all that needs to be said. Everyone knows what happened after that except for you who claimed it was the game winning shot.

Show me my posts extremely exaggerating about what James had done.

Translation: In the >8,500 posts you made as a leBron stan, you cant quote a single one giving Bosh, Wade, and the elite role players LBJ had - like Ray Allen - their flowers. Thanks for proving my point.

Show me my posts where I said Miami was a **** team except for LeBron and no other player deserves credit? You know, like you claimed above that ALL James fans do.

Come on. These posts are all over the place. Its part of the "LBJ is the GOAT" narrative to talk the contributions of all of his team mates down. Be it Wade, Bosh, Ray, Miller, Chalmers, especially Love, Kyrie, AD and so on. Noone who helped him win ever got respected as being on the same level of contribution as him. Narrative is always he carried the team.

You yourself posted several times and frequently stated Bosh was never a superstar and Wade didnt play well. Evryone can go through your posts its easy to find. Here is one recent posts from you:

In a combined 16 seasons Love, Irving and Bosh played 11 postseason games and won 3 of them in those 2 appearances. Yeah, they were established alright.

If that's the criteria, then what team(s) are considered superteams? Can't say the 2011 Heat cause Chris Bosh was never considered a superstar and definitely didn't put up stats/play like one while with Miami. Wade didn't play like one in 2013 or 2014