Finals.. OKC now up 3-2 and Haliburton not 100%

[dougthonus]

No way.They have played in another, weaker,looser league.
There's no way they can be better than Bulls, Celtics or Lakers on their peak..They're just a great team now.No legends.

Legends are made by results. If SGA wins 3-4 titles he will be a legend. If he wins 1, then he probably won't be. Same with this Thunder team.

You compare players and teams against their eras to be fair to how people played in the moment.

I would guess this Thunder team would demolish any of the 90s teams, much like the Warriors would have done the same. The analytical maximization of the game now is insane and those 90s teams would have been massively exploited by the weaknesses not discovered yet in their eras.

[DuckIII]

I picked OKC to win the championship running away before the season began, and have been rooting for them the entire postseason.

1. Caruso.
2. Their fans deserve it after KD’s cowardice.
3. Their players seem like good dudes.
4. They play two way basketball and go all out.
5. Jalen Williams is one of my favorite NBA players.

Pacers have been fun. Respect. But frankly I’m shocked this series went more than 5. OKC has laid down some uncharacteristic stinkers in this series to allow it to remain close.

[jacoby1us]

Either team winning it wouldn't matter to me, quite unfortunate that most fans aren't excited about a real NBA matchup between these two teams in the finals, minus the horrible officiating the games have been quite entertaining. It is good to see small market teams thrive in the post season, we will witness a franchise first NBA championship this year either way.

[kodo]

It's too bad this will come down to an injury to Haliburton, but durability is easily the most underprioritized attribute of superstars. MJ isn't MJ if he wasn't as tough as AC Green.

TBH it was impressive that Indy was basically tied in the late 4th with OKC with Haliburton making 0 shots all game.
If he's still injured next game, Carlisle has to think about replacing those minutes with someone who can score.

[SfBull]

No way.They have played in another, weaker,looser league.
There's no way they can be better than Bulls, Celtics or Lakers on their peak..They're just a great team now.No legends.

Legends are made by results. If SGA wins 3-4 titles he will be a legend. If he wins 1, then he probably won't be. Same with this Thunder team.

You compare players and teams against their eras to be fair to how people played in the moment.

I would guess this Thunder team would demolish any of the 90s teams, much like the Warriors would have done the same. The analytical maximization of the game now is insane and those 90s teams would have been massively exploited by the weaknesses not discovered yet in their eras.

I doubt OKC or the Warriors would demolish the 96 Bulls.

[SfBull]

No way.They have played in another, weaker,looser league.
There's no way they can be better than Bulls, Celtics or Lakers on their peak..They're just a great team now.No legends.

Legends are made by results. If SGA wins 3-4 titles he will be a legend. If he wins 1, then he probably won't be. Same with this Thunder team.

You compare players and teams against their eras to be fair to how people played in the moment.

I would guess this Thunder team would demolish any of the 90s teams, much like the Warriors would have done the same. The analytical maximization of the game now is insane and those 90s teams would have been massively exploited by the weaknesses not discovered yet in their eras.

OKC's moment won't last long ,I don't believe they'll build a dinasty,.

[dougthonus]

OKC's moment won't last long ,I don't believe they'll build a dinasty,.

Hell, may not even get 1. However, we won't know until we know. Lots of things have to go right to have a dynasty, so you should always bet against it. That said, OKC is absolutely one of the best positioned teams ever to do so. They might be one of the youngest title teams ever and still have the most future assets of any team in the league. That's a lot of ammo. That said, injuries can destroy any team in the blink of an eye, and the modern cap rules to encourage rapid movement and OKC's small market will all be working against them.

[MrSparkle]

IMO, the secret to the dynasty is scoring 2 of your 3 best players on bargain deals… presumably cause they made an incredible/unexpected jump in game, combined with probably not being the highest pick with the max extensions. Ala Pippen, Curry/Dray, Manu/Parker and of course the Big 3 South Beach party (which still “underachieved”). Also baked in was the fact that a Jordan, Lebron, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, etc. was always worth way more than the max allowed, compared to a Malone, Carmelo or Demar on the same salary.

But even then, you have to keep being creative. Warriors would’ve possibly ended with 1 ring if they hadn’t made the absurd Durant move, despite its trio being relatively cheap. Bulls added Harper and Kukoc after Jordan’s hiatus, thanks to Pippen’s penny deal, along with Rodman.

Again, OKC’s current salary structure is completely unsustainable after 2027. Of course if they 3-peat, they’ll be historically great. Then there’s also the unlikely scenario where Jwill or Chet take a paycut, or less money for whatever reason. But I think they’ll peak early, cause they’re not going to have such a deep rotation in 2Y. The solution would be trading for a top-3 player like Giannis or Jokic.

[coldfish]

No way.They have played in another, weaker,looser league.
There's no way they can be better than Bulls, Celtics or Lakers on their peak..They're just a great team now.No legends.

Legends are made by results. If SGA wins 3-4 titles he will be a legend. If he wins 1, then he probably won't be. Same with this Thunder team.

You compare players and teams against their eras to be fair to how people played in the moment.

I would guess this Thunder team would demolish any of the 90s teams, much like the Warriors would have done the same. The analytical maximization of the game now is insane and those 90s teams would have been massively exploited by the weaknesses not discovered yet in their eras.

I doubt OKC or the Warriors would demolish the 96 Bulls.

The 95/96 Bulls were 1st in offense and 1st in defense. Probably the most dominant team in NBA history versus their peers.

Chicago's O rating that year was 115.2. That would be FOURTEENTH in the NBA this year, which is what Doug is really getting to. The modern analytics really broke the game. On defense, the Thunder would just concede midrange jumpers all game long which Chicago would fall into not knowing they are being baited into poor efficiency shots.

Side note: You are right about the Warriors. They started the trend but their O rating that year was 114.5 during their 73 win team. No way they demolish the Bulls like that. The league has changed a lot since then.

[MrSparkle]

Legends are made by results. If SGA wins 3-4 titles he will be a legend. If he wins 1, then he probably won't be. Same with this Thunder team.

You compare players and teams against their eras to be fair to how people played in the moment.

I would guess this Thunder team would demolish any of the 90s teams, much like the Warriors would have done the same. The analytical maximization of the game now is insane and those 90s teams would have been massively exploited by the weaknesses not discovered yet in their eras.

I doubt OKC or the Warriors would demolish the 96 Bulls.

The 95/96 Bulls were 1st in offense and 1st in defense. Probably the most dominant team in NBA history versus their peers.

Chicago's O rating that year was 115.2. That would be FOURTEENTH in the NBA this year, which is what Doug is really getting to. The modern analytics really broke the game. On defense, the Thunder would just concede midrange jumpers all game long which Chicago would fall into not knowing they are being baited into poor efficiency shots.

Sadly, I’m having a hard time imagining half that Bulls roster being effective in this NBA. For whatever benefits Kukoc and Kerr brought, they would be picked on defensively. Longley, Wennington would be virtually unplayable. Harper wouldn’t be able to keep up with quick PGs nor be as effective a spacer. Still some solid roleplayers, but you’d have to shuffle the deck a bit.

Jordan/Pippen/Rodman would still be a killer trio… and IND is showing that you can slow down the OKC offense. I think Phil and about 6 guys would figure it out. It would be fair to throw out your deep bench in the comp, as you could easily address the era’s style with shuffling cheap 8-12 reserves (lighter/faster, 3P spacing, etc.).

With 1-2 minor tweaks, I’m still going with the 96 Bulls. I’d say a trade deadline could address the PG/C problems (make that Lakers trade for Mark Williams, and send some potato chips for Schroder). I think you’d want Harper on the bench as a backup wing, Longley out or as a deep reserve.

[kodo]

A lot depends on which era the refs are from. A lot of the NBA is adaptation vs pure progression (although there's plenty of pure progression). NBA coaching has adapted to the touch foul officiating, and the players have trained that way. It's a skill for SGA to snake dribble and shift the defender's momentum, lean into the defender, and then go into his shooting motion. A 90s ref would just look at that and not do anything. And everyone on all good playoff teams are getting their bodies tangled in defender's arms and then immediately moving which is by definition a foul past 2000, pre 2000 that's not a foul.

But in general I think the roleplayers are much better today, a much higher floor. But I'm not sure if the ceiling for OKC (SGA & Jalen & Chet) is better than the Bulls ceiling (MJ & Scottie & Rodman). This would have to be the 72 game version, the 98 team Scottie was already physically done, Rodman was almost 40, and that team wasn't even favored to win the title in their own era. It was just a huge carry job by MJ.