The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 3

[Qwigglez]

I don't want to see Claxton (overrated) or CamJo on this team. Nets have ZERO quality players.

Furthermore this obsession with ex-Suns players is pathetic. Better for your health if you move on.

I can’t +1 your post enough. Thank you!

In 7 years Cam Johnson least injury riddled year he played 66 games. That’s the most games he’s ever played in a full season. He’s ALWAYS hurt. He’s not athletic. He has one memorial dunk. He’s not a particularly good defender. Yes he can shoot threes but unathletic three point shooters aren’t exactly hard to find. PLUS availability >>>>> ability ! Cam ship has sailed. Don’t want him back at all.

Claxton is a slightly better version of Nick Richard’s on a $25 Million a year contract. If I’m going to give up assets to improve than let’s give up assets to improve. Not a fan of stagnating with slightly better versions of what you already have!

Claxton and Cam need to stay away from this team.

I don't want Cam Johnson just because he is an ex-Suns player, I want him because the Suns need a PF. Claxton is significantly better than Nick Richards. Is he worth the $20 million more? I think he is worth upgrading for. Plus, if a trade netted the Suns both of them for Beal, I easily take that deal even if it means giving up the 10th pick (or trading down for) so the Suns can have a more balanced out roster.

[thamadkant]

Point Book is nightmare fuel. I’m sorry but he is garbage as a PG. This team suffers badly when he has to do it long term. Booker doesn’t have particularly good floor vision and distributing the ball isn’t a natural instinct for Booker.

Point Booker isn’t a plan, it’s an absence of a plan.

Point Book is AWFUL. He aint Harden and he aint SGA who could guard PGs. PG Book means average of 10 point losses or more and 30 wins at best.

[Qwigglez]

Point Book is nightmare fuel. I’m sorry but he is garbage as a PG. This team suffers badly when he has to do it long term. Booker doesn’t have particularly good floor vision and distributing the ball isn’t a natural instinct for Booker.

Point Booker isn’t a plan, it’s an absence of a plan.

Point Book is AWFUL. He aint Harden and he aint SGA who could guard PGs. PG Book means average of 10 point losses or more and 30 wins at best.

Well luckily Green is probably fast enough to guard opposing PG's. And then I will just assume Collin Gillespie made a big enough impression on the front office that he gets the primary backup PG duties off the bench, similar to TJ McConnell's role. Gil's last 12 games of the season he averaged 10.3 points, 3.5 assists, 3.7 rebounds, 1.3 steals, and 1 turnover in 23 minutes per game, shooting 44% from the field and 46% from 3.

[zimpy27]

Suns can stretch+waive Beal.
They can use $14m MLE to replace him in FA.
They can do the above while dropping out of the tax.


This seems like the best path if they can't land a guy like Lauri with Beal+10.

[Blonde]

The priority has to be how to trade Beal for multiple players without giving up #10.

Beal +29 to Chicago for Pat Williams/Vucevic/Jevon Carter.
Beal +29 to Miami for Wiggins + Rozier
Beal +29 to Utah for any combination of their guys. I would put #10 on the table for Markkanen.

That NTC is brutal. Hopefully Brad just wants to be done here, but if not we can’t stretch his contract. That would be beyond stupid.

[lilfishi22]

Suns can stretch+waive Beal.
They can use $14m MLE to replace him in FA.
They can do the above while dropping out of the tax.


This seems like the best path if they can't land a guy like Lauri with Beal+10.

Nah

[thamadkant]

Suns can stretch+waive Beal.
They can use $14m MLE to replace him in FA.
They can do the above while dropping out of the tax.


This seems like the best path if they can't land a guy like Lauri with Beal+10.

There's no one at MLE better than Beal, who was 17/4/4 type of player with good percentages. He is overpaid but better than any MLE Suns can sign.
The problem is too many SGs, but all 3 of them can play combo guard and Beal is OK as 6th man.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Watch on YouTube

GoK what do you think of Khaman Maluach at #10?

Not an extreme athlete but a decent defender and his shot is not horrible.

Doesn't seem to project to be a star but could be exactly what we need at center.

He's going to be really solid as a high functioning defensive center because of four elite traits that stand out:

1- He's got great hands in the post.
2- His size/ length are obviously elite.
3- His overall quickness and lateral mobility/ fluidity/ recovery are elite giving him the chance to develop into an all defensive center.
4- His willingness to be physical and play through contact will be huge for his rapid ability to adapt and have early impact in the league.

The Gobert comps make a ton of sense given his measurements and defensive awareness/ motor. If he's there I think you have to take him given that we got smaller and more redundant at a singular position.

But honestly I think there's maybe a 20% chance that he makes it to 10. I really don't see him getting past any of New Orleans, Washington or Toronto. Also, Brooklyn could take him and then seek to move Ckaxton for other assets considering all the interest he's been recieving!!

But even if we went in a different direction, there'll still be very solid center options outside the lottery! Options such as Jo'an Beringer, who at 7'0 with a 7'5 wingspan and elite mobility and recovery/switchability is a near carbon copy as Kel ' el Ware (just not as far along yet on his jumpshot). He'll go in the late teens to 20s most likely.

Then you have Kalkbrenner at 29. Who is a very similar archetype to Brook Lopez/ Kosta Koufos. But would be an ideal post lottery defensive fit as a drop coverage big in Otts' scheme.

After that in the 2nd round you still.have Yannick Neiderhauser who at 7'0 and is very bouncy is basically a pogo stick center in the mold of Haxson Hayes.

And then you have Rocco Zisarky ( he'd be my Choice) who at 7'4 is enormous and quick, mobile, long and gr very much in the Gobert/ Mark Eaton archetype but has a developing faceup game that very few are aware of.

Even after that you have yet another big center in Vladislav Goldin, who at 7'1 265 lbs and very physical in the mold of Ivaca Zubac! Is almost a carbon copy of him in skillset, motor and playstyle.

There's just a ton of center options even after Makuach, who'll likely be gone before 10 most likely anyways. And if I'm being very honest, Ishbias' most likely target at 10 ( they're keeping that pick) is going to be Danny Wolf (Jewish Jokic/ Michigan connection).


And then they'll look at Kalkbrenner at 29, or Vlad Goldin in a 2nd round trade up scenario in the late 40s to early 50s. As a defensive center will help cover his athleticism and defensive concerns

[zimpy27]

Suns can stretch+waive Beal.
They can use $14m MLE to replace him in FA.
They can do the above while dropping out of the tax.


This seems like the best path if they can't land a guy like Lauri with Beal+10.

There's no one at MLE better than Beal, who was 17/4/4 type of player with good percentages. He is overpaid but better than any MLE Suns can sign.
The problem is too many SGs, but all 3 of them can play combo guard and Beal is OK as 6th man.

Maybe, you also pay $200+ tax if you do that over next 2 seasons. Team can avoid tax completely next 2 seasons with the stretch and waived.

Regardless, I think you can find a starting at C for MLE. Like BroLo or Capela.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Suns can stretch+waive Beal.
They can use $14m MLE to replace him in FA.
They can do the above while dropping out of the tax.


This seems like the best path if they can't land a guy like Lauri with Beal+10.

There's no one at MLE better than Beal, who was 17/4/4 type of player with good percentages. He is overpaid but better than any MLE Suns can sign.
The problem is too many SGs, but all 3 of them can play combo guard and Beal is OK as 6th man.

This still isn't some difficult conundrum to try and solve! It's not a critical necessity to move him right now. Just keep bringing him off the bench in a super 6th man role, so in playing against lesser bench opposition, he can show out and raise his trade value again, and then when teams talk themselves into him, he can choose his destination easier and we won't need to give up assets to move him.

Besides, he can help give us one of the most potent benches in the NBA with his scoring efficiency and again reestablish value! Or at worst he gets so fed up with not starting, that he asks out and finally is willing to drop his NTC.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Suns can stretch+waive Beal.
They can use $14m MLE to replace him in FA.
They can do the above while dropping out of the tax.


This seems like the best path if they can't land a guy like Lauri with Beal+10.

There's no one at MLE better than Beal, who was 17/4/4 type of player with good percentages. He is overpaid but better than any MLE Suns can sign.
The problem is too many SGs, but all 3 of them can play combo guard and Beal is OK as 6th man.

Maybe, you also pay $200+ tax if you do that over next 2 seasons. Team can avoid tax completely next 2 seasons with the stretch and waived.

Regardless, I think you can find a starting at C for MLE. Like BroLo or Capela.

In the meantime, that's what the point of trading KD and then using all of our picks to fill out roster spots (we'll have alot of roster spots to fill) is about, along with looking to trade Allen and O'neale and possibly Martin too for expirings and cost conttolled picks to drop below the 2nd apron!

The coming moves they'll seek to make this next week will seek to accomplish this. That way we can hopefully duck that 200 + tax and look to sign a center like you mentioned.

But overall, my guess is we'll target a trade back scenario with Brooklyn for Claxton (Sorry Tragic) because he's obviously legitimately elite defensively, can run the fast break in Otts' scheme, and is on a descending 25+ million salary contract.

And in doing that trade, then we can turn one pick into 3-4 that will help us to fill out the majority of our positional holes with cost controlled young athletic talent. This allows us to consolidate picks for future moves a bit too.

And helps to reduce our cap line and generate flexibility to use our MLE? ( likely on a point guard).

[Ghost of Kleine]

The priority has to be how to trade Beal for multiple players without giving up #10.

Beal +29 to Chicago for Pat Williams/Vucevic/Jevon Carter.
Beal +29 to Miami for Wiggins + Rozier
Beal +29 to Utah for any combination of their guys. I would put #10 on the table for Markkanen.

That NTC is brutal. Hopefully Brad just wants to be done here, but if not we can’t stretch his contract. That would be beyond stupid.

IF trading Beal, then this or Qwiggles' trade down suggestion for both of Johnson and Claxton is the kind of outside of the box thinking that we need to orchestrate.

And although, I'd just keep him for now and run him off the bench to not only boost our bench production, but to incentivize him to more quickly drop his NTC and ask out, again IF teading him now, then that's what the CLE 1sts should be used for along with the suggestions Blonde offered below!


Only modification I'd make to this suggestion is I wouldn't at all be giving up the 29th pick either in this draft unless we have a deal in place (trade down scenario to acquire multiple picks from Brooklyn) and even then, I'd prefer to use the CLE 1sts instead.

[Rebound Mound]

I believe we are going to trade Beal and the pick and some other players to give sense to the roster we have in terms of balance and age. It is non sense to pick a rookie in the 10th position when Booker is 28. Especially if he is a big man.

So to me we should see what veteran player we can get with that pick. We should find a team willing to rebuild and offer them this pick for their best player (Bridges of Charlotte, Sabonis of the Kings, Markannen of Utah, etc. Maybe a risky move with Zion for that pick, once we have done our due diligence on him.

We could try to then sign Porzingis, who seems like a great idea, for small assets, as Boston wants to get rid of him.

Sabonis and Porzingis, or Sabonis and Markannen, can play together. Especially the later. We should find a point guard to be the director of this mess. Someone with experience and character who can dictate the way we show our strengths on the court.

XXX
Booker
Brooks
Markannen
Porzingis
-----------------------
XXX
Green
Allen
Bol
Oso-Plumlee

[Ghost of Kleine]

I believe we are going to trade Beal and the pick and some other players to give sense to the roster we have in terms of balance and age. It is non sense to pick a rookie in the 10th position when Booker is 28. Especially if he is a big man.

So to me we should see what veteran player we can get with that pick. We should find a team willing to rebuild and offer them this pick for their best player (Bridges of Charlotte, Sabonis of the Kings, Markannen of Utah, etc. Maybe a risky move with Zion for that pick, once we have done our due diligence on him.

We could try to then sign Porzingis, who seems like a great idea, for small assets, as Boston wants to get rid of him.

Sabonis and Porzingis, or Sabonis and Markannen, can play together. Especially the later. We should find a point guard to be the director of this mess. Someone with experience and character who can dictate the way we show our strengths on the court.

XXX
Booker
Brooks
Markannen
Porzingis
-----------------------
XXX
Green
Allen
Bol
Oso-Plumlee

We're actually keeping the pick and using it to add cost controlled young talent to help reduce our cap line and add more cost effective depth pieces and talent to our core around Booker.

And clearly it's not nonsense in the sense that even with Booker, we're obviously nowhere near competing, and the actual plan is that we're going to seek a 2-3 year window to reload and get back to competitive prominence. Utilizing the 10th pick either with a lotto talent or in a trade back/trade down scenario is the most cost effective and logical mechanism to firms our roster issues and get our books back in line where we can generate flexibility.

The fetus acquisitions will come as a result of creating that flexibility. But not at the jump of all this man. Yes! We'll still seek to be competitive in order to mitigate surrendered value to Houston by the 27' season.


But that's why we're seeking to cut payroll and be more financially judicious right now by opting for more cost controlled young talent over expensive vets that won't offer measurable impact beyond our goals anyways. Long term projection is the shift to focus on now.

[zimpy27]

There's no one at MLE better than Beal, who was 17/4/4 type of player with good percentages. He is overpaid but better than any MLE Suns can sign.
The problem is too many SGs, but all 3 of them can play combo guard and Beal is OK as 6th man.

Maybe, you also pay $200+ tax if you do that over next 2 seasons. Team can avoid tax completely next 2 seasons with the stretch and waived.

Regardless, I think you can find a starting at C for MLE. Like BroLo or Capela.

In the meantime, that's what the point of trading KD and then using all of our picks to fill out roster spots (we'll have alot of roster spots to fill) is about, along with looking to trade Allen and O'neale and possibly Martin too for expirings and cost conttolled picks to drop below the 2nd apron!

The coming moves they'll seek to make this next week will seek to accomplish this. That way we can hopefully duck that 200 + tax and look to sign a center like you mentioned.

But overall, my guess is we'll target a trade back scenario with Brooklyn for Claxton (Sorry Tragic) because he's obviously legitimately elite defensively, can run the fast break in Otts' scheme, and is on a descending 25+ million salary contract.

And in doing that trade, then we can turn one pick into 3-4 that will help us to fill out the majority of our positional holes with cost controlled young athletic talent. This allows us to consolidate picks for future moves a bit too.

And helps to reduce our cap line and generate flexibility to use our MLE? ( likely on a point guard).

Martin, Micic, Richards can just be waived and I did that as part of my calculations.

Here is the long maths:



Beal (54)
Booker (53)
Green (33)
Brooks (21)
Dunn (3)
Allen (17)
O'Neale (10)
Oso (2)
#10, #29, #52, #59 (11)

That's all the guaranteed deals at $204m.
That's 12 players and $3m under 2nd apron (or $16m over tax line). So they would go over 2nd apron without a trade.

By waive and stretch Beal at $97m the Suns save $34.5m this season. So it drops them like $18.5 under tax line.

They could use $14m MLE and add 2 vet mins players (14 players) while just being under the Tax.

Resetting their repeater this season means they can be aggressive next season.

Yes moving Allen and O'Neale in to capspace is an alternative way that the Suns can drop out of the tax and reset the repeater. I just think Allen and O'Neale are good players, I like both more than Beal for the Suns.

[Puff]

Holy Crap

We have had no picks and have not future picks and we want to trade them. We need those cheap contracts and young talent.

Please stop coming up with ways to trade either of our first round picks. I want to keep #10 and would like to somehow move #29 higher. There appears to be a lot of really nice bigs in this draft. I do not want a point guard unless it is that 6 10 guy form BYU.

We have to get bigger.

[Rebound Mound]

I believe we are going to trade Beal and the pick and some other players to give sense to the roster we have in terms of balance and age. It is non sense to pick a rookie in the 10th position when Booker is 28. Especially if he is a big man.

So to me we should see what veteran player we can get with that pick. We should find a team willing to rebuild and offer them this pick for their best player (Bridges of Charlotte, Sabonis of the Kings, Markannen of Utah, etc. Maybe a risky move with Zion for that pick, once we have done our due diligence on him.

We could try to then sign Porzingis, who seems like a great idea, for small assets, as Boston wants to get rid of him.

Sabonis and Porzingis, or Sabonis and Markannen, can play together. Especially the later. We should find a point guard to be the director of this mess. Someone with experience and character who can dictate the way we show our strengths on the court.

XXX
Booker
Brooks
Markannen
Porzingis
-----------------------
XXX
Green
Allen
Bol
Oso-Plumlee

We're actually keeping the pick and using it to add cost controlled young talent to help reduce our cap line and add more cost effective depth pieces and talent to our core around Booker.

And clearly it's not nonsense in the sense that even with Booker, we're obviously nowhere near competing, and the actual plan is that we're going to seek a 2-3 year window to reload and get back to competitive prominence. Utilizing the 10th pick either with a lotto talent or in a trade back/trade down scenario is the most cost effective and logical mechanism to firms our roster issues and get our books back in line where we can generate flexibility.

The fetus acquisitions will come as a result of creating that flexibility. But not at the jump of all this man. Yes! We'll still seek to be competitive in order to mitigate surrendered value to Houston by the 27' season.


But that's why we're seeking to cut payroll and be more financially judicious right now by opting for more cost controlled young talent over expensive vets that won't offer measurable impact beyond our goals anyways. Long term projection is the shift to focus on now.

I usually tend to share your points of view, but I do not see the point in keeping the pick and thus I disagree with you here.
Booker is 28 and will be 29 as the RS starts. If we select a player with 19/20 years, then it will take 4/5 years to reach some kind of relevance in this league. Especially if he is a PG or a C. By then, Booker will be 33/34. No player other than Curry or LBJ are differential when being that old. The only good thing would be that, if we stretch Beal, we will need two years in which our money will be caught in the amount of 40 million/year, limiting our capacity to create a solid roster.

If the management is examining the situation with Porzingis, who is 30 roughly in a month, then I am pretty sure they will be looking at options to trade the pick, unless they decide to trade Booker and keep the pick and Green, which does not seem like the path they chose.

That pick could get us a player in his 27/28 with present and future (Bridges, 27; Markannen, 28; Sabonis, 29).
This draft is not that deep and, to put everything together, we are not known for developing the young players in a proper way.
Can someone imagine a good development with Booker, Beal (perhaps), Green... ?

[Fo-Real]

Maybe, you also pay $200+ tax if you do that over next 2 seasons. Team can avoid tax completely next 2 seasons with the stretch and waived.

Regardless, I think you can find a starting at C for MLE. Like BroLo or Capela.

In the meantime, that's what the point of trading KD and then using all of our picks to fill out roster spots (we'll have alot of roster spots to fill) is about, along with looking to trade Allen and O'neale and possibly Martin too for expirings and cost conttolled picks to drop below the 2nd apron!

The coming moves they'll seek to make this next week will seek to accomplish this. That way we can hopefully duck that 200 + tax and look to sign a center like you mentioned.

But overall, my guess is we'll target a trade back scenario with Brooklyn for Claxton (Sorry Tragic) because he's obviously legitimately elite defensively, can run the fast break in Otts' scheme, and is on a descending 25+ million salary contract.

And in doing that trade, then we can turn one pick into 3-4 that will help us to fill out the majority of our positional holes with cost controlled young athletic talent. This allows us to consolidate picks for future moves a bit too.

And helps to reduce our cap line and generate flexibility to use our MLE? ( likely on a point guard).

Martin, Micic, Richards can just be waived and I did that as part of my calculations.

Here is the long maths:



Beal (54)
Booker (53)
Green (33)
Brooks (21)
Dunn (3)
Allen (17)
O'Neale (10)
Oso (2)
#10, #29, #52, #59 (11)

That's all the guaranteed deals at $204m.
That's 12 players and $3m under 2nd apron (or $16m over tax line). So they would go over 2nd apron without a trade.

By waive and stretch Beal at $97m the Suns save $34.5m this season. So it drops them like $18.5 under tax line.

They could use $14m MLE and add 2 vet mins players (14 players) while just being under the Tax.

Resetting their repeater this season means they can be aggressive next season.

Yes moving Allen and O'Neale in to capspace is an alternative way that the Suns can drop out of the tax and reset the repeater. I just think Allen and O'Neale are good players, I like both more than Beal for the Suns.

Martin and Richards have value. Each is at least worth his salary. They should be used in trade for cost cutting moves to other teams or kept and play sense our owner isn't really stressing about such low paying contracts.

[BobbieL]

Suns can stretch+waive Beal.
They can use $14m MLE to replace him in FA.
They can do the above while dropping out of the tax.


This seems like the best path if they can't land a guy like Lauri with Beal+10.

There's no one at MLE better than Beal, who was 17/4/4 type of player with good percentages. He is overpaid but better than any MLE Suns can sign.
The problem is too many SGs, but all 3 of them can play combo guard and Beal is OK as 6th man.

I made the same point about Beal. Okay, so you stretch him for 19m (if they can do that with the math) but you sign a guy for $10 - that is $29m -- and most likely, won't be better

So its not ideal of course to have Booker Beal and Green - but don't do something stupid with Beal and don't sell low on Green just to get a "CENTER" like Claxton. He is 23 with upside potential. I also think Brooks works with Booker

So trade Allen and trade O'Neale and work around the three guards for a year... see what happens

Now if you can trade Green for a player with the potential or some proven skillset - thats fine

But Green could be a pretty darn good player - -has amazing athletic ability. Don't give up on that. This is like a gap year for the Suns. See what you can do. Gerald B reported that his source say basically Brooks and Green bust it on the court - I want to see guys just bust it

Now Beal - the Bulls trade maybe attaching pick 29 - but not Carter, would need to be BAll

[WeekapaugGroove]

What vet PG options are potentially available in a trade?