Who is the best player in World?

[Castle Black]

1. Jokic - Best, most valuable player in the world right now and it's really not close. Just had arguably the greatest offensive season in modern times, averaging 30/13/10/2/1 on 58/41/80 shooting splits. Just absurd. Became the first player in NBA history to finish top-3 in 4 different major statistical categories (!!). Was robbed of the MVP this year.

2. Giannis - Two-way monster who Avg'd 30/12/7/1/1 on 60% shooting w/ DPOY level defense. He's the 2nd best player in the world, but is unfortunately stuck on a bad team.

3. SGA - Great scorer and play-maker but his game is largely predicated on flopping/foul-baiting. Extremely fortunate to be surrounded by the best team in the league. OKC regularly wins games that he doesn't play well in. Nonetheless, he sits comfortably at 3 due to his scoring ability.

4. Wemby (when he was healthy) - Best defensive player in the world who avg'd 24/11/4/4/1 and had a poor Spurs roster in Playoff contention before undergoing season-ending surgery. Most unique player in the league and on his way to superstardom.

5. Luka - Prob the 2nd best offensive player in the league behind Jokic. A true offensive engine who has led his team to the NBA Finals. Will keep the Lakers relevant for years to come, but his perimeter defense knocks him down a peg or two.


That's your top-5 right now.

[Infinite Llamas]

sga. he has never played with a murray level player. murray, gordon, braun, westbrook, porter are easily better than chet, williams, whoever the #3 is.

Lmao

Jokic/Chet/JDub would be the most unstoppable front court in the league.

SGA/Murray/MPJ/Gordon would be….meh.

[Franco]

It's Jokic, but Shai solidified himself at #2 for me.

[Optms]

sga. he has never played with a murray level player. murray, gordon, braun, westbrook, porter are easily better than chet, williams, whoever the #3 is.

Lmao

Jokic/Chet/JDub would be the most unstoppable front court in the league.

SGA/Murray/MPJ/Gordon would be….meh.

Jokic so great yet has choked away back to back series.

Firstly choking a 3-2 series lead against the Wolves and secondly, choking a game 7 where he wanted no part of Caruso. But teammates prevented Jokic from scoring or even attempting to seem like he cared. Alright there bud. OKC already has a great leader. They don't need a glorified Harden instilling bad habits. Congrats to the league and Finals MVP.

[syrus3]

Why would they need Harden when Scooby is already a free throw merchant?

[Infinite Llamas]

sga. he has never played with a murray level player. murray, gordon, braun, westbrook, porter are easily better than chet, williams, whoever the #3 is.

Lmao

Jokic/Chet/JDub would be the most unstoppable front court in the league.

SGA/Murray/MPJ/Gordon would be….meh.

Jokic so great yet has choked away back to back series.

Firstly choking a 3-2 series lead against the Wolves and secondly, choking a game 7 where he wanted no part of Caruso. OKC already has a great leader. They don't need a glorified Harden. Congrats to the league and Finals MVP.

Jokic and Murray combined for 69 of the 90 points.

Please and thanks look up the definition of choking.

[Special_Puppy]

Still Jokic

You know damn well if Jokic won MVP, beat SGA head to head, and won the title and finals MVP you'd be on here saying it proves hes the best player. That didn't happen, though. SGA, however just did all the above.

Jokic cant create his own shot like SGA can. His percentages are nice on the select shots he generates or is willing to take. Backing down from the top of the key is nice for stats, those handoff assists to inflate assists per game at the expense of dribble penetration for his team is easier to guard than a guy who can get anywhere with a live dribble. It doesnt work in legit playoff series, as evidenced by Denver losing every time they've played a good team in the playoffs with Jokic.

2020 and 2025 Clippers aren’t good teams? What’s a playoff series the Nuggets lost in the Jokic era that they “should” have won taking into account supporting cast and opponent quality

[Optms]

Lmao

Jokic/Chet/JDub would be the most unstoppable front court in the league.

SGA/Murray/MPJ/Gordon would be….meh.

Jokic so great yet has choked away back to back series.

Firstly choking a 3-2 series lead against the Wolves and secondly, choking a game 7 where he wanted no part of Caruso. OKC already has a great leader. They don't need a glorified Harden. Congrats to the league and Finals MVP.

Jokic and Murray combined for 69 of the 90 points.

Please and thanks look up the definition of choking.

How many of those points/assists did Jokic contribute in the second half again? Please remind us that context you're convenienly leaving out.

Maybe he should stop flopping to preserve stamina.

[Special_Puppy]

sga. he has never played with a murray level player. murray, gordon, braun, westbrook, porter are easily better than chet, williams, whoever the #3 is.

You think Jokic has a better supporting cast than SGA?

[Ssj16]

still Jokic

15 guys would have won the title in SGAs place

I definitely don't think this is true. I'd reduce that to about the other top 3-4 players.

And you can't discount SGA's fit with this team. However I definitely think Jokic is in another class as the best player in the NBA today.

[Ssj16]

SGA quite easily. Never forget how badly Jokic got shut down in Game 7 by a 6’2” midget guard.

Yes but people are too salty with SGA to give him credit for anything. This thread is proof of that.

Or maybe it has to do with the fact that Jokic needs to do more for his team (plays more minutes, outputs more stats) for his team and does it at a pretty high clip.

[Ssj16]

Certainly not the 1st and 2nd round statpadding merchants that people overrate on past achievements (Giannis and Joker).

It's SGA. Luka will challenge him next year, Jokic and Giannis will put up their gaudy stats and lose in the playoffs as usual, because of their lack of defense/athleticism (Joker) and spacing/elite playmaking/teamplay (Giannis) and both arent as good as they used to be at their best either.

SGA and Luka working in the offseason while Jokic has been drunk for 2 months is going to increase the gap.

I hope Luka does not fool us again, but he seems to have finally commited himself fully.

Great troll thread considering OKC with this team has only made it past the second round once this year and both Jokic and Giannis have been to multiple conference finals in their career and have the same amount of finals MVP as SGA. Even more of an exposed troll thread that you add Luka into the discussion when technically he would be a "stat ladder" based on your criteria.

[SA37]

Why does everyone think people are hating on SGA? He's an awsome player. But there's nothing wrong with someone taking Giannis or obviously Jokic over him. And yes OKC might win the next few titles. That team is amazing.

Because people are. You got folks bringing up the refs, you got people acting like anyone could replace SGA. It's hating, one poster even said 15 guys could have won a title with this team. Also if Jokic or Giannis had won the mvp, scoring title and finals mvp a lot of people would be in here crowning either as the best player in the league. It's hate pure and simple.

Seems a bit harsh to call it hate.

There's no debate OKC is a powerhouse and SGA has better support than any recent star lead finals team (all due respect to tatum but I don't think of the celtics has driven by him). Now sure I'll give you the ref thing has gotten out of hand, especially after these finals. But...I mean dude just shot under 30% to win game 7 and that's after a terrible game 6.

I think it's reasonably fair for some people to see SGA as an amazing player but also not really best player in the league level. And I don't think you'd ever see a game where Jokic were jumping in the air and making last second kick out after kickout...with questionable results despite the 12 assists. And Giannis is just a different kinda animal. At the end of the day I think it's much more just reasonable and fair skepticism. And I don't think that's unreasonable when the alternatives are as good as Jokic and Giannis.

Again the ref stuff is 100% hate...people gotta get over that one.

There are a lot of parallels to SGA and Harden in terms of how they are/were viewed. No one denied Harden's greatness in his prime, but his style of play and his foul-baiting was loathsome. SGA is sneaking into that territory as far as play goes.

That said, props to SGA. He didn't bitch once at the refs and played through all the physicality. He seems super humble and I love the dynamic with the entire OKC squad and the Thunder organization.

SGA is an incredible 2-way player. He could be all-NBA on both ends of the floor next year and it's crazy hard to keep that man from getting 30.

As far as ranking players, I just don't think he'd be in the top-5 if the NBA had an open draft of all players. That depends a lot on organizations, but I just don't think any GMs would take SGA over Jokic, Giannis, or Wemby (even if he'd be selected based on what he could be rather than what he is). There are a lot of GMs who would take Edwards or Luka before SGA. If Embiid and Kawhi were totally healthy, they'd have an argument above Shai. A lot would not pick Curry, LeBron or Durant simply because of their age.

To me, this just shows how talented and how good the league is.

[syrus3]

Why would he bitch at the refs? He spends 80% of his time at the free throw line.

Lmao!

[Special_Puppy]

Jokic still having this title in a headlock after what SGA just did is interesting. Not even saying it’s wrong just interesting

[Ambrose]

Still Jokic

You know damn well if Jokic won MVP, beat SGA head to head, and won the title and finals MVP you'd be on here saying it proves hes the best player. That didn't happen, though. SGA, however just did all the above.

Jokic cant create his own shot like SGA can. His percentages are nice on the select shots he generates or is willing to take. Backing down from the top of the key is nice for stats, those handoff assists to inflate assists per game at the expense of dribble penetration for his team is easier to guard than a guy who can get anywhere with a live dribble. It doesnt work in legit playoff series, as evidenced by Denver losing every time they've played a good team in the playoffs with Jokic. Then of course, there's his complete lack of rim defense as a defensive center. The same can be said for Giannis and his inability to create as a closer. It's true, look it up. Lost everytime against good healthy teams. SGA is the best player in the league currently. You can quote me haha.

I think for myself, so no, I wouldn't. I didn't rank 15 Curry above LeBron or 17/18 Durant above him either.

I'm sure there will be plenty of opportunities for more quoting. We're only a month removed from that ATG bad take.

[Ssj16]

sga. he has never played with a murray level player. murray, gordon, braun, westbrook, porter are easily better than chet, williams, whoever the #3 is.

Lmao

Jokic/Chet/JDub would be the most unstoppable front court in the league.

SGA/Murray/MPJ/Gordon would be….meh.

Jokic so great yet has choked away back to back series.

Firstly choking a 3-2 series lead against the Wolves and secondly, choking a game 7 where he wanted no part of Caruso. But teammates prevented Jokic from scoring or even attempting to seem like he cared. Alright there bud. OKC already has a great leader. They don't need a glorified Harden instilling bad habits. Congrats to the league and Finals MVP.

Man, this definitely puts Lebron in a whole different light after choking back to back series against Denver. Actually it wasn't choking, it was getting waxed, merked, owned, powned, dismantled etc.

[ball_takes23]

still Jokic

15 guys would have won the title in SGAs place

Absolutely huge overexaggeration. Actually it’s like 5, maybe 6 or at a stretch.

I look forward to you listing all 15.

I think Brunson, Mitchell and Cade all win a title with this okc team. do you disagree?

[dhsilv2]

Because people are. You got folks bringing up the refs, you got people acting like anyone could replace SGA. It's hating, one poster even said 15 guys could have won a title with this team. Also if Jokic or Giannis had won the mvp, scoring title and finals mvp a lot of people would be in here crowning either as the best player in the league. It's hate pure and simple.

Seems a bit harsh to call it hate.

There's no debate OKC is a powerhouse and SGA has better support than any recent star lead finals team (all due respect to tatum but I don't think of the celtics has driven by him). Now sure I'll give you the ref thing has gotten out of hand, especially after these finals. But...I mean dude just shot under 30% to win game 7 and that's after a terrible game 6.

I think it's reasonably fair for some people to see SGA as an amazing player but also not really best player in the league level. And I don't think you'd ever see a game where Jokic were jumping in the air and making last second kick out after kickout...with questionable results despite the 12 assists. And Giannis is just a different kinda animal. At the end of the day I think it's much more just reasonable and fair skepticism. And I don't think that's unreasonable when the alternatives are as good as Jokic and Giannis.

Again the ref stuff is 100% hate...people gotta get over that one.

There are a lot of parallels to SGA and Harden in terms of how they are/were viewed. No one denied Harden's greatness in his prime, but his style of play and his foul-baiting was loathsome. SGA is sneaking into that territory as far as play goes.

That said, props to SGA. He didn't bitch once at the refs and played through all the physicality. He seems super humble and I love the dynamic with the entire OKC squad and the Thunder organization.

SGA is an incredible 2-way player. He could be all-NBA on both ends of the floor next year and it's crazy hard to keep that man from getting 30.

As far as ranking players, I just don't think he'd be in the top-5 if the NBA had an open draft of all players. That depends a lot on organizations, but I just don't think any GMs would take SGA over Jokic, Giannis, or Wemby (even if he'd be selected based on what he could be rather than what he is). There are a lot of GMs who would take Edwards or Luka before SGA. If Embiid and Kawhi were totally healthy, they'd have an argument above Shai. A lot would not pick Curry, LeBron or Durant simply because of their age.

To me, this just shows how talented and how good the league is.

I see absolutely nothing Harden like with SGA. He doesn't actively look to force defenders into fouling him. That was harden's game. SGA gets fouled and his style of play creates a LOT of fouls. Not saying he or any player doesn't jump into defenders off balance. But SGA's game is to zig zag and attack the rim. It isn't to get a defender off balance and draw a foul.

And...what possible GM would take ANT over SGA? I don't for even a second believe there's a single GM dumb enough to think like that. ANT might get ESPN to overrate him, but an actual GM?

Agree the league is super talented, but in terms of how well they play the game right now. SGA is clearly top 3.

[SA37]

Seems a bit harsh to call it hate.

There's no debate OKC is a powerhouse and SGA has better support than any recent star lead finals team (all due respect to tatum but I don't think of the celtics has driven by him). Now sure I'll give you the ref thing has gotten out of hand, especially after these finals. But...I mean dude just shot under 30% to win game 7 and that's after a terrible game 6.

I think it's reasonably fair for some people to see SGA as an amazing player but also not really best player in the league level. And I don't think you'd ever see a game where Jokic were jumping in the air and making last second kick out after kickout...with questionable results despite the 12 assists. And Giannis is just a different kinda animal. At the end of the day I think it's much more just reasonable and fair skepticism. And I don't think that's unreasonable when the alternatives are as good as Jokic and Giannis.

Again the ref stuff is 100% hate...people gotta get over that one.

There are a lot of parallels to SGA and Harden in terms of how they are/were viewed. No one denied Harden's greatness in his prime, but his style of play and his foul-baiting was loathsome. SGA is sneaking into that territory as far as play goes.

That said, props to SGA. He didn't bitch once at the refs and played through all the physicality. He seems super humble and I love the dynamic with the entire OKC squad and the Thunder organization.

SGA is an incredible 2-way player. He could be all-NBA on both ends of the floor next year and it's crazy hard to keep that man from getting 30.

As far as ranking players, I just don't think he'd be in the top-5 if the NBA had an open draft of all players. That depends a lot on organizations, but I just don't think any GMs would take SGA over Jokic, Giannis, or Wemby (even if he'd be selected based on what he could be rather than what he is). There are a lot of GMs who would take Edwards or Luka before SGA. If Embiid and Kawhi were totally healthy, they'd have an argument above Shai. A lot would not pick Curry, LeBron or Durant simply because of their age.

To me, this just shows how talented and how good the league is.

I see absolutely nothing Harden like with SGA. He doesn't actively look to force defenders into fouling him. That was harden's game. SGA gets fouled and his style of play creates a LOT of fouls. Not saying he or any player doesn't jump into defenders off balance. But SGA's game is to zig zag and attack the rim. It isn't to get a defender off balance and draw a foul.

And...what possible GM would take ANT over SGA? I don't for even a second believe there's a single GM dumb enough to think like that. ANT might get ESPN to overrate him, but an actual GM?

Agree the league is super talented, but in terms of how well they play the game right now. SGA is clearly top 3.

GMs do a lot of wild things, like trade Doncic for A Davis and fillers. Or give up 4 unprotected 1sts for Desmond Bane or Mikal Bridges.

Even if you or others thinks SGA > Edwards, the difference isn't as big as you're pretending it is.