Stein/Fischer: Toronto willing to deal RJ Barrett, IQ, Poeltl for Significant Upgrades // #9 Available

[causal_fan]

I think we are already kicking ourselves for giving IQ that contract.

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Not sure if the Raps are there yet, but they are definitely looking to move on from that contract. It's an overpay right now, and just because it's a flat contract at the end, doesn't mean it's a good one. Paid IQ his max potential, and he's unlikely to be a value for the contract. The Raptors also bid against themselves.

I was shocked that IQ got the contract he got especially since he was a RFA - Raptors should have let him go out and see what the market was offering , I bet no team was going to offer more than $25m. This is one of my biggest concerns with the Raptors, in an era where the tax system means ever dollar matters, the Raptors have no "value" contracts, the FO seems to pay everyone top dollar - this is already an expensive non-playoff team - I'd be an unhappy owner.

[Mr. Perfect]

Why do people keep saying this like paul george didnt ask for a trade to team up with kawhi? This wasnt some shrewd calculated move by OKC the clippers were desperate for PG and OKC benefited tremendously. Without shai the thunder are probably still a good team but not championship level good

Because I'm willing to bet that the Clips didn't call up Presti offering him the farm for PG right off the bat. GMs make bad trades all the time (Hello VC trade), GMs still need to demand good value coming back. Presti definitely had leverage, but so did Nico and he still got a mid return for Luka. It takes 2 to tango.

Nico had nowhere near the leverage for a few reasons. 1) he was the one who decided to make the trade - the Mavs decided they didn't want to pay Luka his next extension and he only had a year left on his deal (he will definitely be opting out) and 2) Nico only negotiated in secret with 1 team, because he knew how **** ridiculous trading Luka was. OKC's leverage was Kawhi saying he would only sign with LAC (if you actually believed him/Uncle Dennis) if they got George specifically, and George had just signed a 5 year extension or whatever it was. Kawhi's entire free agency was very public. He had the Lakers (and us, sort of) sitting there too. Presti had all of the leverage in that situation. A desperate Ballmer looking to make a big splash, and the one guy under contract for a long time that would not only get him George, but also Kawhi.

That trade is still such a piss-off, from our perspective. We were the only ones standing there with nothing to show for it. Meanwhile OKC got the greatest rebuild package of all time for a much lesser player in PG.

If we knew Kawhi was leaving we should have somehow pushed for a sign-and-trade.

There must have been something we could have negotiated with Kawhi's cam. Even Golden State got something in return for KD from Brooklyn that summer with Deangelo Russell. Which half a year later was flipped for Wiggins and the draft pick that became Kuminga.

[douggood]

Because I'm willing to bet that the Clips didn't call up Presti offering him the farm for PG right off the bat. GMs make bad trades all the time (Hello VC trade), GMs still need to demand good value coming back. Presti definitely had leverage, but so did Nico and he still got a mid return for Luka. It takes 2 to tango.

Nico had nowhere near the leverage for a few reasons. 1) he was the one who decided to make the trade - the Mavs decided they didn't want to pay Luka his next extension and he only had a year left on his deal (he will definitely be opting out) and 2) Nico only negotiated in secret with 1 team, because he knew how **** ridiculous trading Luka was. OKC's leverage was Kawhi saying he would only sign with LAC (if you actually believed him/Uncle Dennis) if they got George specifically, and George had just signed a 5 year extension or whatever it was. Kawhi's entire free agency was very public. He had the Lakers (and us, sort of) sitting there too. Presti had all of the leverage in that situation. A desperate Ballmer looking to make a big splash, and the one guy under contract for a long time that would not only get him George, but also Kawhi.

That trade is still such a piss-off, from our perspective. We were the only ones standing there with nothing to show for it. Meanwhile OKC got the greatest rebuild package of all time for a much lesser player in PG.

If we knew Kawhi was leaving we should have somehow pushed for a sign-and-trade.

There must have been something we could have negotiated with Kawhi's cam. Even Golden State got something in return for KD from Brooklyn that summer with Deangelo Russell. Which half a year later was flipped for Wiggins and the draft pick that became Kuminga.

GSW gave up a pick with KD to get deanglo russell

bkn like lac had cap room to sign KD so no reason to do s&t, it was gsw who need to a sign and trade to get russell since they were over the cap and gave up a pick to do so

[anotherhomer]

I think IQ contract should had been 150M

[MiamiSPX]

I think we are already kicking ourselves for giving IQ that contract.

Sent from my SM-S936W using RealGM mobile app

Not sure if the Raps are there yet, but they are definitely looking to move on from that contract. It's an overpay right now, and just because it's a flat contract at the end, doesn't mean it's a good one. Paid IQ his max potential, and he's unlikely to be a value for the contract. The Raptors also bid against themselves.

Not sure how anyone can say he will provide great value when we don't even really know what IQ is yet. He hasn't even started 100 games in the NBA, at age 26. Currently the only good thing you can say about that contract is that at least 1 year is now gone off of it. I am not too upset about it though, because I always expected it to be on the higher side due to the slight premium we have to add on top to play in Canada.

[bobbyp3588]

I think we are already kicking ourselves for giving IQ that contract.

Sent from my SM-S936W using RealGM mobile app

Not sure if the Raps are there yet, but they are definitely looking to move on from that contract. It's an overpay right now, and just because it's a flat contract at the end, doesn't mean it's a good one. Paid IQ his max potential, and he's unlikely to be a value for the contract. The Raptors also bid against themselves.

Not sure how anyone can say he will provide great value when we don't even really know what IQ is yet. He hasn't even started 100 games in the NBA, at age 26. Currently the only good thing you can say about that contract is that at least 1 year is now gone off of it. I am not too upset about it though, because I always expected it to be on the higher side due to the slight premium we have to add on top to play in Canada.

The contract is flat in that year 1 is the same value as year 5. Might seem like an overpay after year 1, but it’s going to be slightly more than the mle for year 5. On the overall this contract will be viewed as a steal in hindsight.

[ConSarnit]

I think we are already kicking ourselves for giving IQ that contract.

Sent from my SM-S936W using RealGM mobile app

Not sure if the Raps are there yet, but they are definitely looking to move on from that contract. It's an overpay right now, and just because it's a flat contract at the end, doesn't mean it's a good one. Paid IQ his max potential, and he's unlikely to be a value for the contract. The Raptors also bid against themselves.

Not sure how anyone can say he will provide great value when we don't even really know what IQ is yet. He hasn't even started 100 games in the NBA, at age 26. Currently the only good thing you can say about that contract is that at least 1 year is now gone off of it. I am not too upset about it though, because I always expected it to be on the higher side due to the slight premium we have to add on top to play in Canada.

IQ’s contract isn’t that bad relative to the cap and his position.

Consider: IQ’s contract will average around 18% of the cap over its lifetime. It’s also a flat contract and the cap is going to go up 10% per year for the next 3-4 years. IQ’s deal gets better over time.

18% of the cap is what the 20th highest paid PG made this past season.

If you think IQ is somewhere around the 20th best PG in the league then his contract falls right in line with that.

[Badonkadonk]

I think IQ contract should had been 150M

As opposed to the $162.5M he got? That's splitting hairs over the term.

Again, the best feature of IQ's contract is that it's flat. It goes from 23.1% of the cap in year 1 to 15.79% of the cap in the final year.

According to Spotrac he's 20th in the NBA amongst PGs in 2025 in AAV and 14th in dollars. He'll only go down that list over the next 4 years.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/contracts/_/position/pg

It's a shrewd deal.

[djsunyc]

I think IQ contract should had been 150M

As opposed to the $162.5M he got? That's splitting hairs over the term.

Again, the best feature of IQ's contract is that it's flat. It goes from 23.1% of the cap in year 1 to 15.79% of the cap in the final year.

According to Spotrac he's 20th in the NBA amongst PGs in 2025 in AAV and 14th in dollars. He'll only go down that list over the next 4 years.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/contracts/_/position/pg

It's a shrewd deal.

this and the want to extend yak makes rj the odd contract out.

[WuTang_OG]

The Toronto Raptors withheld Jakob Poeltl in trade talks for Kevin Durant, and there’s a strong expectation the organization will look to extend him, league sources told HoopsHype, echoing similar reporting from Sportsnet and The Stein Line.

Poeltl averaged a career-high 14.5 points and 9.6 rebounds per game for Toronto. Poeltl is viewed as a stabilizing force by the Raptors, who doesn’t need the ball to be effective, is coachable, and is a good presence in the locker room around the rest of the core.

Toronto has also continued to gauge the trade market on RJ Barrett, league sources told HoopsHype. Barrett, who’s owed $57.32 million over the next two seasons, averaged a career-high 21.1 points, 6.3 rebounds, and 5.4 assists per game.

Lastly, Raptors forward Chris Boucher enters unrestricted free agency and spoke with HoopsHype in an exclusive interview below in this intel story.

[basketballto]

what will we learn from OKC,,, they built there team from the draft. Thats the new way of building a team. **** Giannis and KD.

Just wait until someone tells you the only reason they won is cause they got lucky with Shai, Kawhi, PG and every other excuse under the sun.

They weren't lucky, it was their goat level drafting? They had the most picks and drafted one All-Star and a tall guy at number 2.

Without SGA you are looking at a playin team.

100% lucky to get SGA and 100% lucky he became what he became.

People give too much and too little credit to the wrong people.

[Scase]

Why do people keep saying this like paul george didnt ask for a trade to team up with kawhi? This wasnt some shrewd calculated move by OKC the clippers were desperate for PG and OKC benefited tremendously. Without shai the thunder are probably still a good team but not championship level good

Because I'm willing to bet that the Clips didn't call up Presti offering him the farm for PG right off the bat. GMs make bad trades all the time (Hello VC trade), GMs still need to demand good value coming back. Presti definitely had leverage, but so did Nico and he still got a mid return for Luka. It takes 2 to tango.

Nico had nowhere near the leverage for a few reasons. 1) he was the one who decided to make the trade - the Mavs decided they didn't want to pay Luka his next extension and he only had a year left on his deal (he will definitely be opting out) and 2) Nico only negotiated in secret with 1 team, because he knew how **** ridiculous trading Luka was. OKC's leverage was Kawhi saying he would only sign with LAC (if you actually believed him/Uncle Dennis) if they got George specifically, and George had just signed a 5 year extension or whatever it was. Kawhi's entire free agency was very public. He had the Lakers (and us, sort of) sitting there too. Presti had all of the leverage in that situation. A desperate Ballmer looking to make a big splash, and the one guy under contract for a long time that would not only get him George, but also Kawhi.

Maybe leverage was a bad way to put it, but rather a combination of leverage and the potential value of the return. Even with everything the Thunder got, the Mavs could've gotten more with Luka. The fact that they were willing to trade him meant that he was out the supermax money, Luka could have come out and said "If I get traded, I'm quitting the NBA and going back to europe" and teams would have been stepping over their own mothers to take the chance to convince him to stay.

There is no world that trading him in secret would have resulted in a better end result for the team. This isn't a 37 year old KD, any team in the NBA would give up the farm to even have that single year to convince Luka to stay. The Kawhi/LAC thing I would say wasn't entirely a bluff, but it was extremely well known that he was going back to LA, but (IIRC) only the Clips could outright sign him. So that being a gun to their head was/is debatable.

Suffice to say, saying that Presti got lucky with the SGA trade is not inaccurate, every well built team relies in no small amount to luck somewhere down the line, but being able to strong arm the clips so much is a testament to his skills. He has built multiple finals teams, drafted like what, 4 MVPs now? And has now won a championship with a pretty good chance to go back to back.

Presti is the best GM in the NBA for the last ~20 years IMO, you don't do that by being handed a single lucky trade.

[MEDIC]

Would you trade Barrett for Dillon Brooks + Ighadaro + filler?

[Scase]

what will we learn from OKC,,, they built there team from the draft. Thats the new way of building a team. **** Giannis and KD.

Just wait until someone tells you the only reason they won is cause they got lucky with Shai, Kawhi, PG and every other excuse under the sun.

They weren't lucky, it was their goat level drafting? They had the most picks and drafted one All-Star and a tall guy at number 2.

Without SGA you are looking at a playin team.

100% lucky to get SGA and 100% lucky he became what he became.

People give too much and too little credit to the wrong people.

They drafted Jwill at 12, who is a better player than anyone on this team and he's 23. Dude just put up 24/5/4 in the finals, made all NBA and All defence, but all they did was "draft an all star and a tall guy".

This is a twitter level take.

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

Would you trade Barrett for Dillon Brooks + Ighadaro + filler?

Brooks is kind of a chucker, I don't know if Masai and Darko want that kind of player.

[navyblue]

what will we learn from OKC,,, they built there team from the draft. Thats the new way of building a team. **** Giannis and KD.

Just wait until someone tells you the only reason they won is cause they got lucky with Shai, Kawhi, PG and every other excuse under the sun.

They weren't lucky, it was their goat level drafting? They had the most picks and drafted one All-Star and a tall guy at number 2.

Without SGA you are looking at a playin team.

100% lucky to get SGA and 100% lucky he became what he became.

People give too much and too little credit to the wrong people.

they hit on jalen, and chet and giddey to an extent
otherwise its been pretty bad drafting

traded 3 picks to pick dieng, and they picked him before jalen williams
other players drafted, tre mann, jeremiah earl jones, poku, theo maledon, bazeley, terrance ferguseon

they whiffed on all non lotto picks

[navyblue]

Would you trade Barrett for Dillon Brooks + Ighadaro + filler?

hell no

[Zeno]

Would you trade Barrett for Dillon Brooks + Ighadaro + filler?

yes I would because Brooks is on a declining contract for next year but a trade like that with the Suns is impossible because they can't take on more money than they send out and they can't aggregate players in trade. do no trade of Brooks for RJ is possible unless the Suns get under the 2nd apron.

[bballsparkin]

Would you trade Barrett for Dillon Brooks + Ighadaro + filler?

Why would the Suns? Brooks is one of the few pieces they have that fits with Booker I think. Anyway, a friend of mine told me to stop throwing RJ in trade ideas haha.

[brwnman]

Not sure if the Raps are there yet, but they are definitely looking to move on from that contract. It's an overpay right now, and just because it's a flat contract at the end, doesn't mean it's a good one. Paid IQ his max potential, and he's unlikely to be a value for the contract. The Raptors also bid against themselves.

Not sure how anyone can say he will provide great value when we don't even really know what IQ is yet. He hasn't even started 100 games in the NBA, at age 26. Currently the only good thing you can say about that contract is that at least 1 year is now gone off of it. I am not too upset about it though, because I always expected it to be on the higher side due to the slight premium we have to add on top to play in Canada.

The contract is flat in that year 1 is the same value as year 5. Might seem like an overpay after year 1, but it’s going to be slightly more than the mle for year 5. On the overall this contract will be viewed as a steal in hindsight.

Don't think anyone will be calling it a steal. At best, it'll be considered on par with his value. But over the course of 5 years, I don't think he'll 'earn' his contract.