Kuminga sign and trade Bulls interest

[dpucane]

Any deal of Kuminga for Vuc is going to be way more involved. Stop saying Vucevic for Kuminga. For that deal to happen, we'd have to get Kuminga at $40 mill AAV. Any trade of Vucevic for Kuminga has to involve a third team and/or Warriors players coming back, at least Moody. To swap him straight up for Pat Will, Kuminga has to get $36 mill AAV. It would probably have to involve Ball, Jalen Smith or White.

Yeah i was too lazy to play with the cap i know they'd need to add stuff.

My big worry is the Coby involvement. Trading your best asset for a non-star and no picks AGAIN would be a nightmare and generational incompetence

[The Box Office]

Kuminga? WTF? We're hyping up bottom of the barrel talent?

ROFL, Kuminga is not bottom of the barrel talent. The Warriors wanted to keep him enough to make an offer, despite his being a poor fit in their system (and they're the ultimate system-driven team). He's 22 and can score in bushels when he gets hot. He's a flawed prospect but still younger than some of the guys who'll be drafted in the first round and has already proved he can be productive as an NBA player. You could have said a lot of those things about Giddey before we traded for him.

No disrespect. Well said.

[GuardianEnzo]

Kuminga? WTF? We're hyping up bottom of the barrel talent?

ROFL, Kuminga is not bottom of the barrel talent. The Warriors wanted to keep him enough to make an offer, despite his being a poor fit in their system (and they're the ultimate system-driven team). He's 22 and can score in bushels when he gets hot. He's a flawed prospect but still younger than some of the guys who'll be drafted in the first round and has already proved he can be productive as an NBA player. You could have said a lot of those things about Giddey before we traded for him.

No disrespect. Well said.

None taken, thank you. Just two guys expressing an opinion.

[Dan Z]

The plan is to get long, athletic two-way players who can run and shoot, score in transition, and shoot lots of 3s. We also plan to sign underappreciated veterans to complement young stars.

They've not really had a two way player their entire tenure here, so athletic two way guys doesn't seem like their plan. They've generally not prioritized good shooters and most of these past five years have been played with significant athletic deficits.

The plan is to make the most prudent decision. To do that, they wanted all of their draft picks available.

They might sign Coby back or might not.
They might trade for a veteran or might not.
They might trade Vuc or might not.
They might keep pick 12 or might not.

The plan is flexible, but the focus is on getting players who fit the system who are value additions.

This really sounds like we have a bunch of guys who are so-so, no real direction now, so we'll just do whatever we think is best at the moment. That's not necessarily bad if they can consistently make high value decisions.

The problem is they haven't consistently made high value decisions. They've been way too late on too many of their decisions, don't use leverage in FA to get their guys on better deals, don't seem to drive good deals with other teams, etc... To execute what I'd call a "value" strategy, you have to consistently find and execute value trades/signings.

Didn't AK say something about how he doesn't think too far into the future? I think working in the moment is his plan.

[Infinity2152]

Any deal of Kuminga for Vuc is going to be way more involved. Stop saying Vucevic for Kuminga. For that deal to happen, we'd have to get Kuminga at $40 mill AAV. Any trade of Vucevic for Kuminga has to involve a third team and/or Warriors players coming back, at least Moody. To swap him straight up for Pat Will, Kuminga has to get $36 mill AAV. It would probably have to involve Ball, Jalen Smith or White.

Yeah i was too lazy to play with the cap i know they'd need to add stuff.

My big worry is the Coby involvement. Trading your best asset for a non-star and no picks AGAIN would be a nightmare and generational incompetence

Yeah, not knocking you. I was early thinking Vuc for Kuminga till the BPE came up. Player wise that would be fine, but with the salaries, Ball or Smith are the only acceptable pieces and I'm not sending picks for Kuminga. Pat Will's money is problematic too.

[dpucane]

Any deal of Kuminga for Vuc is going to be way more involved. Stop saying Vucevic for Kuminga. For that deal to happen, we'd have to get Kuminga at $40 mill AAV. Any trade of Vucevic for Kuminga has to involve a third team and/or Warriors players coming back, at least Moody. To swap him straight up for Pat Will, Kuminga has to get $36 mill AAV. It would probably have to involve Ball, Jalen Smith or White.

Yeah i was too lazy to play with the cap i know they'd need to add stuff.

My big worry is the Coby involvement. Trading your best asset for a non-star and no picks AGAIN would be a nightmare and generational incompetence

Yeah, not knocking you. I was early thinking Vuc for Kuminga till the BPE came up. Player wise that would be fine, but with the salaries, Ball or Smith are the only acceptable pieces and I'm not sending picks for Kuminga. Pat Will's money is problematic too.

So cap wise do the Warriors have to give 2x the salary?

[DrModesty]

The Bulls should stay clear of Kuminga. He is a shoddy shooter from 3 and from the free throw line, gets lost on defense, mediocre rebounder, and poor creator for others. The positives are great athleticism, scoring punch and can make good defensive plays sometimes. He also has had a streak of being self centered so far in his career. This is not a winning player.

Giddey was a flawed but improving player that makes those around him better. Kuminga has shown less improvement and is less additive. He will take the ball out of Coby and Giddey's hands. He will take shots that need to go to Buzelis (whose development the franchise is relying on). Even if he gets a boost in his counting stats he won't have good value on a real contract because teams have wised up to this archetype of player.

[DuallyNoted]

out of all the treading ground to get a middling talent type of moves, jabari parker and otto parker must have retired or had a child. are they just trying to summon luol deng from the grave they almost put him in? what the **** is their interest in Kuminga as a cornerstone?

[Donkedave]

Ok I will drop a few scenarios below and what implications they have regard's too hard capping teams etc. I’m not saying I want JK, just giving some options so we can make sure everyone knows them.

When doing a S&T the team sending player(GSW) is only counted as 1/2 of the total outgoing
(eg $20m is $10m) but receiving team is the full amount ($20m)

Other trade rules which are in effect here is the

(Trade brackets: 2025-26 season (based on a 10% salary cap increase) ● $8,277,000-$33,107,999 Outgoing salary plus

(E)$8.527M when sending out you can take back this much more IF you don’t go over the 1st apron.

Hard capping-
1st apron
1.receive player via S&T
2. Take on more salary then sending out
3. Use existing TPE
4. Aggregate players and receive more salary

2nd Apron
5. Send a player in S&T
6. Aggregate players(when sending out more salary)


Option 1. Vucevic for JK & Hield
Vuch (V)$21,481,481

Hield (H)$9,219,512 into TPE

TB (E) $8,257,000

V-H= $12,261,969 this figure is essentially what JK salary is for his outgoing salary to make this trade work. So double it.

$24,523,940 added $2, is what Kuminga 1st year salary would need too be. GWS send out more salary then incoming.
GSW hard capped 2nd Apron (5 & 6)
Chicago hard capped 1st apron (1,2 & 3)

Same as above if they sent Moody(into TPE) but Kuminga salary would have to be $19,814,811(add $2 again)

See if you can make sense of the following.

Vuch for Kuminga straight up

V-E= ($13,584,841)x2
Jk 1st year $27,169,684 (less then V+E $30,098,841)
GSW hard cap at 1st apron take in more salary then sending out(remember 1/2 outgoing) in this example GSW would only have 3.5m under the apron and only have 10 rostered players. Not going to happen is it!

Bulls 1st apron

Then the not using the TB(E) but won’t work financially can sign JK for more then (V+E) the trade won’t work and outside of the 33m range stated above.

Of course there is JK into our TPE + 250k

1st year salary can be $17,436,573
GSW 2nd apron
Bulls 1st

Hope this will help a few out that are trying to figure out how/if/when/who it can happen.

[sco]

Ok I will drop a few scenarios below and what implications they have regard's too hard capping teams etc. I’m not saying I want JK, just giving some options so we can make sure everyone knows them.

When doing a S&T the team sending player(GSW) is only counted as 1/2 of the total outgoing
(eg $20m is $10m) but receiving team is the full amount ($20m)

Other trade rules which are in effect here is the

(Trade brackets: 2025-26 season (based on a 10% salary cap increase) ● $8,277,000-$33,107,999 Outgoing salary plus (E)$8.527M when sending out you can take back this much more IF you don’t go over the 1st apron.

Hard capping-
1st apron
1.receive player via S&T
2. Take on more salary then sending out
3. Use existing TPE
4. Aggregate players and receive more salary

2nd Apron
5. Send a player in S&T
6. Aggregate players(when sending out more salary)


Option 1. Vucevic for JK & Hield
Vuch (V)$21,481,481

Hield (H)$9,219,512 into TPE

TB (E) $8,257,000

V-H= $12,261,969 this figure is essentially what JK salary is for his outgoing salary to make this trade work. So double it.

$24,523,940 added $2, is what Kuminga 1st year salary would need too be. GWS send out more salary then incoming.
GSW hard capped 2nd Apron (5 & 6)
Chicago hard capped 1st apron (1,2 & 3)

Same as above if they sent Moody(into TPE) but Kuminga salary would have to be $19,814,811(add $2 again)

See if you can make sense of the following.

Vuch for Kuminga straight up

V-E= ($13,584,841)x2
Jk 1st year $27,169,684 (less then V+E $30,098,841)
GSW hard cap at 1st apron take in more salary then sending out(remember 1/2 outgoing) in this example GSW would only have 3.5m under the apron and only have 10 rostered players. Not going to happen is it!

Bulls 1st apron

Then the not using the TB(E) but won’t work financially can sign JK for more then (V+E) the trade won’t work and outside of the 33m range stated above.

Of course there is JK into our TPE + 250k

1st year salary can be $17,436,573
GSW 2nd apron
Bulls 1st

Hope this will help a few out that are trying to figure out how/if/when/who it can happen.

Very helpful!

Certainly seems like it would be threading a needle to make the trade work for both teams.

Conceptually, I go back and forth on JK. I get the appeal of a guy who has shown flashes of being a very good scorer. I can rationalize his inconsistent play with the fact that his role hasn't really be consistent. On the other hand, I see risk of that kind of deal mucking with the development of our key 3. Before I did that, I'd want to see if our young guys can step up with a roster that has better offensive/defensive balance.

[Infinity2152]

Ok I will drop a few scenarios below and what implications they have regard's too hard capping teams etc. I’m not saying I want JK, just giving some options so we can make sure everyone knows them.

When doing a S&T the team sending player(GSW) is only counted as 1/2 of the total outgoing
(eg $20m is $10m) but receiving team is the full amount ($20m)

Other trade rules which are in effect here is the

(Trade brackets: 2025-26 season (based on a 10% salary cap increase) ● $8,277,000-$33,107,999 Outgoing salary plus (E)$8.527M when sending out you can take back this much more IF you don’t go over the 1st apron.

Hard capping-
1st apron
1.receive player via S&T
2. Take on more salary then sending out
3. Use existing TPE
4. Aggregate players and receive more salary

2nd Apron
5. Send a player in S&T
6. Aggregate players(when sending out more salary)


Option 1. Vucevic for JK & Hield
Vuch (V)$21,481,481

Hield (H)$9,219,512 into TPE

TB (E) $8,257,000

V-H= $12,261,969 this figure is essentially what JK salary is for his outgoing salary to make this trade work. So double it.

$24,523,940 added $2, is what Kuminga 1st year salary would need too be. GWS send out more salary then incoming.
GSW hard capped 2nd Apron (5 & 6)
Chicago hard capped 1st apron (1,2 & 3)

Same as above if they sent Moody(into TPE) but Kuminga salary would have to be $19,814,811(add $2 again)

See if you can make sense of the following.

Vuch for Kuminga straight up

V-E= ($13,584,841)x2
Jk 1st year $27,169,684 (less then V+E $30,098,841)
GSW hard cap at 1st apron take in more salary then sending out(remember 1/2 outgoing) in this example GSW would only have 3.5m under the apron and only have 10 rostered players. Not going to happen is it!

Bulls 1st apron

Then the not using the TB(E) but won’t work financially can sign JK for more then (V+E) the trade won’t work and outside of the 33m range stated above.

Of course there is JK into our TPE + 250k

1st year salary can be $17,436,573
GSW 2nd apron
Bulls 1st

Hope this will help a few out that are trying to figure out how/if/when/who it can happen.

Great work! If they use Ball, they can go up to $20/mill for Kuminga, White would be $25 mill, Smith is $18 mill. Kuminga probably jumps at the $25 mill AAV looking at the market now, but I wouldn't give up White for Kuminga.

Geeting him by trading the TPE, $17.5 mill first year may be the most the market will bear for Kuminga. Other teams that may want him will have the same problem and we have one of the biggest TPE's. Would do that easily and worry about clearing some cap with all these expirings after.

Maximum contract with TPE is about 4yrs/$75.4 mill with the 5% increases. Around $19 mill AAV.

[Andi Obst]

I'm far from being a Kuminga fan, but I do think that he could look pretty good in a faster and less complicated offense. On a team-friendly deal, I'd be interested. But since I guess the Warriors would just keep the asset at that point, I don't think there's a deal that I would like there.

[Infinity2152]

I'm far from being a Kuminga fan, but I do think that he could look pretty good in a faster and less complicated offense. On a team-friendly deal, I'd be interested. But since I guess the Warriors would just keep the asset at that point, I don't think there's a deal that I would like there.

At one point MJ was almost a Knick. After the first season he made $30 mill (one year contract), after making like $3-4 mill/yr for the last bunch of years, Jordan was eligible for $36 mill. Krause argued him down to $33 mill and told Jordon he would regret paying him that much after the deal was done. Jordan said he was 30 minutes away from being a Knick. Is still mad about that. Said his greediness almost ruined the team. Remember Ben Gordon signing in Detroit for 5yrs/$55 mill? Believe it was because he felt insulted. Same situation, we had offered him a 5yr/$50 mill extension he turned down. Loved BG, he left for basically the same money. Deng turned down our 5yr/$57 mill extension, but we were able to keep him. BG felt he was the best player on the team.

Point is, guys get mad when they feel undervalued. GS may technically be able to take him back. They can't force him to do anything more than take the 1 yr QO he signed and be a negative guy waiting to leave for a year. He's not going to be happy playing for $18 mill anywhere, but he's REALLY not going to be happy with the Warriors at the same price, who were benching him when he was healthy and said publicly he doesn't fit with Butler.

[patryk7754]

A lot of people here think doing a sign-and-trade for Kuminga would be a terrible decision, but his performance in the playoffs proved that completely wrong. He fits this offense perfectly. Idk what his market value is but if we can give him the exact contract as Williams and offload Williams at the same time, it's a major no-brainer.

[jacoby1us]

Kuminga > Williams
Not sure if there is a really debate on this......

Fit? All we need Kuminga to do is run, cut, dunk, defend and rebound. We can't even get Williams to do that in all of the years he has been here, it is time to move on. Why not move on with a more athletic wing in Kuminga?

Typical Bulls fans, DEBBIE DOOMERS.

[The Force.]

Kuminga > Williams
Not sure if there is a really debate on this......

Fit? All we need Kuminga to do is run, cut, dunk, defend and rebound. We can't even get Williams to do that in all of the years he has been here, it is time to move on. Why not move on with a more athletic wing in Kuminga?

Because the bulls decided to make Giddey—an already flawed player—a cornerstone building block. This significantly reduces the margin of error for any player you put around him, assuming the goal is to make deep playoff runs.

[nomorezorro]

also, that's all the warriors needed kuminga to do and he repeatedly failed to be a good team basketball player next to an all-time great in a championship-winning system.

i don't know why anyone would want to pay kuminga under the assumption that he will be a good "cog in a machine" player; even the kuminga true believers think he needs the ball in his hands a lot to realize his potential

[Red Larrivee]

also, that's all the warriors needed kuminga to do and he repeatedly failed to be a good team basketball player next to an all-time great in a championship-winning system.

i don't know why anyone would want to pay kuminga under the assumption that he will be a good "cog in a machine" player; even the kuminga true believers think he needs the ball in his hands a lot to realize his potential

I think a logical approach to the offseason would be to value the things that went really well for the Bulls after the ASB. If you do that, I don't know how the conclusion would be to sign-and-trade for Kuminga, whose best value is creating his own offense.

[kodo]

Kuminga > Williams
Not sure if there is a really debate on this......

Fit? All we need Kuminga to do is run, cut, dunk, defend and rebound. We can't even get Williams to do that in all of the years he has been here, it is time to move on. Why not move on with a more athletic wing in Kuminga?

Typical Bulls fans, DEBBIE DOOMERS.

Isn't that all GS needed Kuminga to do next to Steph?

Still, Kuminga is a better asset than Vuc or PWill if the new deal is reasonable.

[sco]

Kuminga > Williams
Not sure if there is a really debate on this......

Fit? All we need Kuminga to do is run, cut, dunk, defend and rebound. We can't even get Williams to do that in all of the years he has been here, it is time to move on. Why not move on with a more athletic wing in Kuminga?

Typical Bulls fans, DEBBIE DOOMERS.

Isn't that all GS needed Kuminga to do next to Steph?

Still, Kuminga is a better asset than Vuc or PWill if the new deal is reasonable.

That last part is dependent on what he signs for. A $30M/yr Kuminga has a very real chance to be a negative asset. I look at him as a very one-dimensional player (i.e. a younger version of Derozan)...His 3pt game has the potential to become average, but it's definitely not a guarantee at this stage of his career. Defensively, he has a bad reputation, but that might change with a bigger/more consistent role. You take both of those attributes up to "average", and you have another Giddey situation on your hands.