Phoenix gets under the cap (w/ATL, BRK, UTA)

[babyjax13]

Not sure that this is a good idea, but I thought it was maybe interesting? Phoenix tries to revamp their roster by getting *under* the cap.

Trade 1
PHX trades: Grayson Allen, 2027 CLE/UTA/MIN 1st (least favorable)
ATL trades: 2027 CLE 2nd

Phoenix dumps a ton of money into Atlanta's TPE. Atlanta gets a bench shooter and a first while leveraging their TPE just below the second apron.

Trade 2
PHX trades: Bradley Beal, 10 (rights to player), 2032 pick swap (BRK receives higher of BRK/PHX 1st)
BRK trades: 2026 ATL 2nd

Phoenix dumps Beal's money. Brooklyn gets a top-10 pick + a massive upside swing in 2032. They are still rebuilding but also under the cap so they have to spend money. They can do this while renouncing everyone but Cam Thomas.

Trade 3
PHX trades: Jalen Green, 2029 UTA/MIN/CLE 1st (least favorable)
UTA trades: John Collins

Phoenix gets out of Green's following years and returns a decent starting power forward. They also save money immediately. Utah takes a swing on developing Green and returns a future pick.


This gets the Suns down to $120,584,511 in salaries (assuming they let Martin/Micic go) + the money for their draft picks (29 & 52) + minimum roster charges. The cap is $154.6 million and they'd be the only team with meaningful cap space to fill out their roster. After the trades they would be very bare:

Richards/Ighodoro
Collins
O'neale/Dunn
Brooks
Booker

I think this framework can get a bit more creative, e.g., using #29 to dump someone, swapping Brooks and Collins for cheaper players, etc. I'd love them to have the money to sign Grimes who is probably better than every non-Booker player they currently have. Some possible FA targets:

Fred VanVleet
Quintin Grimes
Clint Capela
Brook Lopez
Myles Turner
Naz Reid
Bobby Portis
Chris Paul
Jonathan Kuminga
Nickeil Alexander-Walker
D'Angelo Russell
Day'Ron Sharpe

[Texas Chuck]

I know I like Allen more than most, but does he really require a first to dump? Plenty of posters believe Hauser should return value in a deal where Boston takes back no money and Allen is a much more proven player. Yeah he makes more money but his contract is very reasonable. And he's a guy who shoots above the break, from well beyond the line, off movement, can create his own shot, attacks closeouts, not just a guy who stands in a corner.

[babyjax13]

I know I like Allen more than most, but does he really require a first to dump? Plenty of posters believe Hauser should return value in a deal where Boston takes back more money and Allen is a much more proven player. Yeah he makes more money but his contract is very reasonable. And he's a guy who shoots above the break, from well beyond the line, off movement, can create his own shot, attacks closeouts, not just a guy who stands in a corner.

I don't know. I think for a team to take him into cap space he might, but I'm open to the idea that he doesn't? The real problem, though, is there are (I think) only two teams that can do this, and to execute the broader plan here you need the other team that can to take Beal. So part of it is to pay for 'scarcity.'

[Mr Puddles]

- The Jalen Green for Collins deal, I'd do in a heartbeat. Collins is a better player and fits a positional need for the Suns. I think Utah is owed more though.

- I'd rather let Beal expire than to attach a lottery pick and an unprotected pick swap to him. Beal only has two years left on his contract, I'd rather ride out those two years than give up more draft capital.

- I don't think that Allen needs a pick attached to be moved. Most likely, the 2nd rounder the Suns would receive would be 30 picks devided from the pick they'd give up (clev or min pick for clev second rounder). I'd prefer a trade for a smaller contract, e.g. Allen for Goga straight up makes sense for both the Suns and the Magic IMO.

[babyjax13]

- The Jalen Green for Collins deal, I'd do in a heartbeat. Collins is a better player and fits a positional need for the Suns. I think Utah is owed more though.

- I'd rather let Beal expire than to attach a lottery pick and an unprotected pick swap to him. Beal only have two years left on his contract, I'd rather ride out those two years than give up more draft capital.

- I don't think that Allen needs a pick attached to be moved. Most likely, the 2nd rounder the Suns would receive would be 30 picks devided from the pick they'd give up (clev or min pick for clev second rounder). I'd prefer a trade for a smaller contract, e.g. Allen for Goga straight up makes sense for both the Suns and the Magic IMO.

My thought is the Beal deal should be seen in the broader context. It is:

10 + Beal + swap
for
whoever you can sign to fill the cap

But yah, it is probably a horrible idea to further leverage their future. I just thought it was fun I would also do the Green deal. What do you think balances it?

[hugepatsfan]

I think Phoenix can pass the cost of dumping Allen o to another team.

Phoenix gets: nothing
Some team gets Allen
TPE/MLE team gets: the filler salary from the team getting Allen and the pick attached to it

The mechanics of Allen’s deal being above the MLE/most teams TPE make it, IMO, such that Phoenix will have a tough time being able to clear the total salary and get any value back compared the the Hauser talks or even other playing style guys like Naji Marshall that we talk about being “dumpable” while still getting something small back. There’s just so few mechanics for doing that with Allen because of the higher salary.

[facothomas22]

Trade 1: I don't think Grayson is a bad enough player where a 1st round would be required just to get him off the team. This isn't a Duncan Robinson situation where he's basically unplayable outside of spot up 3s. I don't a team assigning meaningful value to Allen, but I can see a team with cap space being willing absorb his contract without asking for more than maybe a 2nd round pick or two.

Trade 2: I think the Suns have to ride out Beal's contract. A mid to late lottery pick likely is going to be asking price for teams to take on Beals contract, but the Suns can't afford to spend assets just to move off of really bad salary when they still lacking assets compared to many teams around in the NBA.The 10th pick would be better used to get a great Center like Walker Kessler or Jarrett Allen or use the 10th pick to turn into future assets if they were to trade the pick.

Trade 3: Jalen Green isn't a positive value contract, but neither is John Collins. Due to Collins expiring, he has more value, but I think going from Green to Collins isn't going to cost a 1st round pick.

[hugepatsfan]

I know I like Allen more than most, but does he really require a first to dump? Plenty of posters believe Hauser should return value in a deal where Boston takes back more money and Allen is a much more proven player. Yeah he makes more money but his contract is very reasonable. And he's a guy who shoots above the break, from well beyond the line, off movement, can create his own shot, attacks closeouts, not just a guy who stands in a corner.

I don't know. I think for a team to take him into cap space he might, but I'm open to the idea that he doesn't? The real problem, though, is there are (I think) only two teams that can do this, and to execute the broader plan here you need the other team that can to take Beal. So part of it is to pay for 'scarcity.'

The Nets (cap space) are obviously one team, but ATL/SAC/CHI all have TPEs that can fit him. I believe MIA can also use their Butler TPE to take him in if the trade is done in the 24-25 league year. So it's not quite as scarce as just two teams.

Problem is, BRK isn't the type of team where it makes sense to give up any value for a player like Allen. MIA/CHI/SAC are all heavy on SGs so it doesn't make sense there either. MIA/SAC, as things stand right now go over the tax if they take him on now as well which obviously wouldn't make sense. Even CHI, as far under as they are now ($53M) still have to re0sign Giddey and sign their pick which depending on what Giddey gets, might push them into the tax if the took back Allen as well (though probably not?).

ATL is the one team that really makes any sense to me to take him into cap space/exception and... does it even make sense really? Right now I'd say they have 6 good players... the 5 starters (Trae/Daniels/Risacher/JJ/Okongwu) and then one bench piece in Mann who is another SG that's undersized laying as a 3 and not really a PG either. If there's one position you can afford to be redundant it's wing, but I have to imagine position wise Allen plays the one ATL would LEAST prefer using their TPE on.

Like I said in my last post, I do think PHX can find a deal or series of moves that gets Allen off their books without having to pay anything. I just think it probably requires the team giving value for Allen to send back some salary that PHX would subsequently have to dump which will suck or or some of that value given up for Allen. Just the mechanics of the deal not fitting into a cap space/TPE/MLE unless one of the teams above bites probably forces some type of less than desirable filler salary to be included which would then need to be dumped. Unless Phoenix manages their roster in such a way that they can keep that filler salary and thus keep the value.

[babyjax13]

I think Phoenix can pass the cost of dumping Allen o to another team.

Phoenix gets: nothing
Some team gets Allen
TPE/MLE team gets: the filler salary from the team getting Allen and the pick attached to it

The mechanics of Allen’s deal being above the MLE/most teams TPE make it, IMO, such that Phoenix will have a tough time being able to clear the total salary and get any value back compared the the Hauser talks or even other playing style guys like Naji Marshall that we talk about being “dumpable” while still getting something small back. There’s just so few mechanics for doing that with Allen because of the higher salary.

I have trouble identifying what Atlanta really needs. Is it a backup center? Could it just be the Gafford for Allen deal with Gafford going to Atlanta?

[Threezus]

I think Phoenix can pass the cost of dumping Allen o to another team.

Phoenix gets: nothing
Some team gets Allen
TPE/MLE team gets: the filler salary from the team getting Allen and the pick attached to it

The mechanics of Allen’s deal being above the MLE/most teams TPE make it, IMO, such that Phoenix will have a tough time being able to clear the total salary and get any value back compared the the Hauser talks or even other playing style guys like Naji Marshall that we talk about being “dumpable” while still getting something small back. There’s just so few mechanics for doing that with Allen because of the higher salary.

I have trouble identifying what Atlanta really needs. Is it a backup center? Could it just be the Gafford for Allen deal with Gafford going to Atlanta?

Hawks need a Center and backup PG probably. Before Gafford got 20 mil i would have been all over looking at him if he got the Oneyak contract at about 14 to 15 mil a year. I would still love if we could somehow get a Kessler in here or trade up in the draft for Maluach.

As far as Grayson allen goes i would honestly quit being a Hawks fan and cheering for them until he was off the team i absolutely can't stand that dude.