Who is the best player in World?

[CobraCommander]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Nbamemes/s/zlzygNwoaE

[SA37]

As far as ranking players, I just don't think he'd be in the top-5 if the NBA had an open draft of all players. That depends a lot on organizations, but I just don't think any GMs would take SGA over Jokic, Giannis, or Wemby (even if he'd be selected based on what he could be rather than what he is). There are a lot of GMs who would take Edwards or Luka before SGA. If Embiid and Kawhi were totally healthy, they'd have an argument above Shai. A lot would not pick Curry, LeBron or Durant simply because of their age.

That there are many terrible loser GMs is not an argument against SGA.

That some GMs could potentially value some players over SGA doesn't make them terrible GMs.

Just like on these boards, everyone has opinions and GMs are not a monolith. While I think Jokic is runaway the best player in the league, I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few GMs who would prefer Giannis and others who would prefer to pick Wemby over more established guys based on his potential.

And it gets even wilder when you start getting into GOAT convos.

[AleksandarN]

Jokic so great yet has choked away back to back series.

Firstly choking a 3-2 series lead against the Wolves and secondly, choking a game 7 where he wanted no part of Caruso. OKC already has a great leader. They don't need a glorified Harden. Congrats to the league and Finals MVP.

Jokic and Murray combined for 69 of the 90 points.

Please and thanks look up the definition of choking.

How many of those points/assists did Jokic contribute in the second half again? Please remind us that context you're convenienly leaving out.

Maybe he should stop flopping to preserve stamina.

Nikola Jokić had 21.0 points, 4.0 rebounds and 2.0 assists in the second half in the 2024 Western Conference game 7 Semifinals. You are easy work.

[Patches Perry]

As far as ranking players, I just don't think he'd be in the top-5 if the NBA had an open draft of all players. That depends a lot on organizations, but I just don't think any GMs would take SGA over Jokic, Giannis, or Wemby (even if he'd be selected based on what he could be rather than what he is). There are a lot of GMs who would take Edwards or Luka before SGA. If Embiid and Kawhi were totally healthy, they'd have an argument above Shai. A lot would not pick Curry, LeBron or Durant simply because of their age.

That there are many terrible loser GMs is not an argument against SGA.

That some GMs could potentially value some players over SGA doesn't make them terrible GMs.

Given that a huge part of being a GM is evaluating players, thats exactly what makes them a terrible GM. If the Nuggets GM were to trade Jokic tomorrow straight up for KAT, we'd all recognize a terrible GM move.

Everyone has opinions sure, but people will then judge you on those opinions. GMs who make terrible moves based on those opinions are terrible GMs.

[CobraCommander]

I can’t believe anyone has anyone other than the 3 options as the best player on earth - it’s one of those 3 - period

[MMyhre]

well they also had arguably the best defense in playoff history. so that's kind of a good fallback if the team isn't great offensively. and it's not like they're the best because of SGA being some elite defender.

and most of SGA's numbers took a pretty big fall in the playoffs as well. 30.7 PER to 25.3 in the playoffs, 63.7 TS% to 57.4 TS% (56.1% in the finals), which is a fairly massive drop in TS%. so it's not like he was on a heater all playoffs. and his on/off was only +1.8 in the playoffs (and was negative last year). so i wouldn't say there's anything clear about him being the best.

Take away the pointless 1st round where they were coasting and its not that big of a drop. Everyone drops a bit towards a finals run vs Elite opponents.

He was 56.7% in the conference finals and 56.1 % in the finals, so even worse than the number I posted. A little drop is 1.5%. this is 7% and 7.6%, which are fairly huge drops.

Now you are just nitpicking, why not include the 2nd round all of a sudden? Every ATG great efficiency kings drops in the postseason, look at peak Durant and Curry and compare it regular season to the postseason. And they had a better offensive team than the Thunder = more help means its easier to sustain higher efficiency.

Almost like the regular season is way easier than the playoffs.

[MMyhre]

still Jokic

15 guys would have won the title in SGAs place

Realgm...come for the basketball talk, stay for the insanely bad takes.

15 is an exaggeration but OKC won because of their defense (helped consistently all season by the officating) and not by his flopping and scoring. You could plug in Tatum/Brown/Kawhi, of course Joker and possibly Luka and they win at least as easy as they did, if not better.

Hahaha, Jaylen Brown. You are just a troll fanboy/hater. Like JB has the handles, scoring volume/package, playmaking and turnover control of SGA +++.

Tatum and Kawhi also aint going to be able to go for 30 on good efficiency as the 1 option in these circumstances, we saw Tatum last year. This isnt 2019 Kawhi.

[MMyhre]

Jokic who has never played with an All-Star/All-NBA teammate and Giannis whose best ever teammates were Jrue Holiday and Khris Middleton, and whose current best teammate is Kyle Kuzma should really be expected to have more titles.

You're crazy if you think Jamal Murray did not perform at an HIGH All NBA level when they won in 2023. So thats just a silly take to make Jokic look better, seen it before.

Wasnt Khris Middleton the 21 playoffs clutch player? 23,6 pts 54,8 ts % 7,6 rebs 5,1 ast is a very Scottie Pippenesque line with better clutch offense. How is that a bad 2nd option?

In regards to their performances after or before that, sure, not as good. But not beating 1st and 2nd round teams (OKC to 7 was a decent fight but Jokic wasnt good enough consistently), and especially Giannis the new King of the 1st Round.. not impressed!

I do think Giannis has less impact than his stats.

He performed on a high level for exactly one year. Consequently it was enough help for Jokic to win the title. Afterwards, he continued to be a disappointment and overpaid/overrated player. Are you trying to say Murray played on an allstar level in 2024 or 2025?

Can you read what I wrote? I adress the fact it wasnt as good, but now you're forgetting Bubble Murray as well, but not too surprising since you are blinded by your Joker agenda like many here.

[Jedi32]

You know you’re great when haters blame your success on the refs. This is getting beyond sad and teetering on stupid.

[Whateva]

1. Jokic
2. Giannis
3. Luka

SGA is on a tier below these 3

[f4p]

Take away the pointless 1st round where they were coasting and its not that big of a drop. Everyone drops a bit towards a finals run vs Elite opponents.

He was 56.7% in the conference finals and 56.1 % in the finals, so even worse than the number I posted. A little drop is 1.5%. this is 7% and 7.6%, which are fairly huge drops.

Now you are just nitpicking, why not include the 2nd round all of a sudden?

Lol, I did include the 2nd round in my first post. Then for some reason we needed to remove the first round so why would we just selectively remove bad rounds? Presumably the WCF and finals were the most important rounds (although all of okc's opponents were kid of equally mediocre at 49 or 50 wins). And the dropoff was a lot.

Every ATG great efficiency kings drops in the postseason, look at peak Durant and Curry and compare it regular season to the postseason.

Yes, I'm aware. I have lots of data on it. Which is why I know a 6% drop is on the very high end, not just in the middle of the range. Guys like Steph, KD, harden were averaging like 2-3% drops so over 6% is not a good number.

And they had a better offensive team than the Thunder = more help means its easier to sustain higher efficiency.

Almost like the regular season is way easier than the playoffs.

More help also means easier to maintain high efficiency in the regular season.

[Bush4Ever]

In a true "all else being equal" sense, it's probably still Jokic, but SGA is close enough that he gets to wear the crown in the real world where things are a little more messy for comparisons.

[Rdude22]

Probably SGA, outplayed Jokic in their 7-game series. Sacrifices having inflated numbers by not playing heliocentric ball, yet still gets top tier numbers. Everyone said OKC couldn’t win the title, now they want to switch it up like anyone would’ve won with those guys. Clown behavior

Jokic is a close 2nd. That heliocentric offense makes you look godly in the regular season but like ‘18 Harden and ‘17 Russ, your team gon crash out in the playoffs once the opponent figures out how to disrupt you and your team never learned to play any other way.

Giannis is right there but has some limitations offensively. Not just his lack of shooting but an inability/unwillingness to set proper picks.

Luka is right there but has major limitations defensively. Will score 30 but give up 30 worth of points on the other end. Also similar pros and cons as Jokic with the heliocentric offense.

[Special_Puppy]

Delete

[Special_Puppy]

Everyone said OKC couldn’t win the title, now they want to switch it up like anyone would’ve won with those guys. Clown behavior

OKC has been the betting favorite for months

[Special_Puppy]

You know damn well if Jokic won MVP, beat SGA head to head, and won the title and finals MVP you'd be on here saying it proves hes the best player. That didn't happen, though. SGA, however just did all the above.

Jokic cant create his own shot like SGA can. His percentages are nice on the select shots he generates or is willing to take. Backing down from the top of the key is nice for stats, those handoff assists to inflate assists per game at the expense of dribble penetration for his team is easier to guard than a guy who can get anywhere with a live dribble. It doesnt work in legit playoff series, as evidenced by Denver losing every time they've played a good team in the playoffs with Jokic. Then of course, there's his complete lack of rim defense as a defensive center. The same can be said for Giannis and his inability to create as a closer. It's true, look it up. Lost everytime against good healthy teams. SGA is the best player in the league currently. You can quote me haha.

Dude. It's about having two eyes and watching the games.
And SGA being the MVP is totally fine. LBJ or Jordan would have even more if the best player of the league was awarded.

Imagine SGA facing the defense OKC threw at Jokic.
How would that turn out?

He could go right by pressure like that, because unlike Jokic, who also plays on the perimeter, he can dribble while facing the basket when guarded and hes fast. And my eyes saw Denver play a zone, with two guys locked in on SGA at the top to try to prevent him getting downhill into the lane. And he still outplayed Jokic in the series. My eyes also saw Nembhard play outstanding defense on SGA all series. He was in his Jersey. It didn't matter. What'd your eyes see?

Nuggets estimated rDTG 0
Pacers estimated rDTG -1
Thunder estimated rDTG -7.5

One of these things is not like the other

[hardenASG13]

Dude. It's about having two eyes and watching the games.
And SGA being the MVP is totally fine. LBJ or Jordan would have even more if the best player of the league was awarded.

Imagine SGA facing the defense OKC threw at Jokic.
How would that turn out?

He could go right by pressure like that, because unlike Jokic, who also plays on the perimeter, he can dribble while facing the basket when guarded and hes fast. And my eyes saw Denver play a zone, with two guys locked in on SGA at the top to try to prevent him getting downhill into the lane. And he still outplayed Jokic in the series. My eyes also saw Nembhard play outstanding defense on SGA all series. He was in his Jersey. It didn't matter. What'd your eyes see?

Nuggets estimated rDTG 0
Pacers estimated rDTG -1
Thunder estimated rDTG -7.5

One of these things is not like the other

Yes the Thunder help and recover better than any team in recent memory. I don't see how those numbers apply to my post at all though, as the points made about SGA being more difficult to contain, as he can dribble and get downhill against pretty much anything remain true. Jokic cant do that, which makes him easier to load up on. He also cant create his own shot out of nothing as well for the same reasons. Believe it or not, these things are more important than differences in TS% or WS/48 or whatever stat is cool on a given day with the game on the line in a tight playoff series.

[MoneyTalks41890]

He’s still getting better. He couldn’t do this a couple years ago.

Read on Twitter

[Special_Puppy]

He could go right by pressure like that, because unlike Jokic, who also plays on the perimeter, he can dribble while facing the basket when guarded and hes fast. And my eyes saw Denver play a zone, with two guys locked in on SGA at the top to try to prevent him getting downhill into the lane. And he still outplayed Jokic in the series. My eyes also saw Nembhard play outstanding defense on SGA all series. He was in his Jersey. It didn't matter. What'd your eyes see?

Nuggets estimated rDTG 0
Pacers estimated rDTG -1
Thunder estimated rDTG -7.5

One of these things is not like the other

Yes the Thunder help and recover better than any team in recent memory. I don't see how those numbers apply to my post at all though, as the points made about SGA being more difficult to contain, as he can dribble and get downhill against pretty much anything remain true. Jokic cant do that, which makes him easier to load up on. He also cant create his own shot out of nothing as well for the same reasons. Believe it or not, these things are more important than differences in TS% or WS/48 or whatever stat is cool on a given day with the game on the line in a tight playoff series.

I was pointing out how you are just massively overhyping how good the Nuggets and Pacers are at defense. If you want to talk about SGA playing against a good defense talk about his (good) series against the TWolves

[hardenASG13]

Nuggets estimated rDTG 0
Pacers estimated rDTG -1
Thunder estimated rDTG -7.5

One of these things is not like the other

Yes the Thunder help and recover better than any team in recent memory. I don't see how those numbers apply to my post at all though, as the points made about SGA being more difficult to contain, as he can dribble and get downhill against pretty much anything remain true. Jokic cant do that, which makes him easier to load up on. He also cant create his own shot out of nothing as well for the same reasons. Believe it or not, these things are more important than differences in TS% or WS/48 or whatever stat is cool on a given day with the game on the line in a tight playoff series.

I was pointing out how you are just massively overhyping how good the Nuggets and Pacers are at defense. If you want to talk about SGA playing against a good defense talk about his (good) series against the TWolves

I'm certainly not overhyping Denvers defense, and didn't hype Indianas either. I responded to a guys question about what would SGA do against defense like Jokic faced. I pointed out that SGA can't be guarded like that as he goes right by guys who crowd him, and you cant front him as he doesnt post up. I pointed out the Nuggets zone had 2 guys dialed on him up top, and that Nembhard did a fantastic job guarding him. Both of those things are true. Jokic isn't the only player teams sell out against.