2025 Draft prospects - thread 3

[ThisGuyFawkes]

I'm definitely not down on CMB. He's in my top-5 that's probably available for our pick. He just doesn't have any elite traits that would make him a home run selection. Can't shoot. Great finisher in college but not guaranteed in the NBA. Crafty on defense, but not strong defending the perimeter on switches. Very left hand reliant, to the point where he forces bad shots.

To say he only has "one issue" seems very generous. But I guess anyone that falls to our range isn't going to be a complete player.

It's closer to accurate than not though. You're not naming anything that he's bad at outside of his jumpshot. He definitely has elite traits, especially on the defensive end. I think calling him "crafty" is really underselling what he did there.

He more than held his own guarding out to the perimeter whether it's pick and roll or isolation. His mobility on the perimeter is very good and the core of it is just his basketball IQ, awareness and reaction speed. Perfect? No. I've seen plays where guards got by him. But it's not a weakness as much as it is improving further on an area of competence.

I don't see any real reason to doubt his finishing translating either. This isn't a player who was finishing well because he was bigger and stronger than players. There's legitimate skill and craft in it, and he's initiating a significant amount of these looks by himself in an offense that didn't really have anyone to take pressure away from him.

I got your points, but I still don't see an elite trait from him. "not a weakness as much as it is improving further on an area of competence." Ok. Not elite. What's elite?

He does a lot of things really great. I get that. But he's also undersized. Who's the last 6"8" PF who did great things?

[ThisGuyFawkes]

Once again, I really don't understand why Newell isn't more highly considered on this board. He has the motor of CMB, the defensive mobility of Beringer, solid shooting form and more 3pt success than either. He has the foot speed and lateral quickness to guard on the perimeter and is probably the only player in this draft that can legit guard 1-5. He can switch anything.

I understand that he's not a freak in length, but he's got great footwork and speed. He's going to get a rebound with his motor. He's great at getting out on fast breaks and running the floor. My assumption is that he's our pick if he's there, and I won't be disappointed about it.

Watch on YouTube

He reminds me of Joakim- 6'11", kind of skinny, a southpaw, crazy hair. Looks like a better scorer than Jo was though. Seems like a good fit for us.

To be fair Dresden, I thought the same thing. Maybe a Noah with an outside shot. I'm just not sure though. Despite my earlier rumblings, I don't think he'll be our pick due to his lack of passing/playmaking.

My order would be something like:
KJ (outside shot of Luka? Playmaking, craftiness in paint, shooting)
Essengue (outside shot of Giannis? Long, athletic, elite FTA)
Demin (outside shot of Giddey/Magic?, maybe Peja? Tall with elite passing/feel)
Newell (outside shot of Noah with a 3pt shot?)
Sorber (great defensively but reliant on old-school post plays. Shown glimpses of dribble-drives and mid-range)
CMB (high defensive IQ, good finisher, good passing, undersized a bit)
Beringer (elite length and mobility, nothing else), (oh, he just picked up a basketball last Thursday so he's definitely going to improve within the next 3-5 years)
Saraf (makes a lot of bad decisions but can handle the ball and score)

[Dan Z]

Portland just traded for Jrue Holiday. Does that effect who they might draft? For example, if KJ is available at 11 do they pass on him for a player at a different position?

[ThisGuyFawkes]

Portland just traded for Jrue Holiday. Does that effect who they might draft? For example, if KJ is available at 11 do they pass on him for a player at a different position?

It might. It feels like they would want some bigger wings like Essengue or a center like Maulach/Sorber. I'm excited to watch how this all unfolds in a few days.

I have a weird feeling as if someone like Kon or KJ will fall to us.

[Chi town]

Portland just traded for Jrue Holiday. Does that effect who they might draft? For example, if KJ is available at 11 do they pass on him for a player at a different position?

It might. It feels like they would want some bigger wings like Essengue or a center like Maulach/Sorber. I'm excited to watch how this all unfolds in a few days.

I have a weird feeling as if someone like Kon or KJ will fall to us.

They’ve been rumored to want Coward and they just lost their best shooter.

Already have Clingan and Ayton at 5.
Camara Grant and Deni at wing.
Scoot Sharpe Jrue.

Will be surprised if it’s not Coward.

[ThisGuyFawkes]

Portland just traded for Jrue Holiday. Does that effect who they might draft? For example, if KJ is available at 11 do they pass on him for a player at a different position?

It might. It feels like they would want some bigger wings like Essengue or a center like Maulach/Sorber. I'm excited to watch how this all unfolds in a few days.

I have a weird feeling as if someone like Kon or KJ will fall to us.

They’ve been rumored to want Coward and they just lost their best shooter.

Already have Clingan and Ayton at 5.
Camara Grant and Deni at wing.
Scoot Sharpe Jrue.

Will be surprised if it’s not Coward.

Ok, I haven't been following their roster, but it seems like definitely not a center lol. I have a lot of opinions but I'm not an expert and transparently, I tend to be wrong all the time. Go figure.

[Dan Z]

Portland just traded for Jrue Holiday. Does that effect who they might draft? For example, if KJ is available at 11 do they pass on him for a player at a different position?

It might. It feels like they would want some bigger wings like Essengue or a center like Maulach/Sorber. I'm excited to watch how this all unfolds in a few days.

I have a weird feeling as if someone like Kon or KJ will fall to us.

I hope you're right. Either one of those two players would be great!

I'm not sure if the Blazers would want a center because they have Donovan Clingan, Ayton and Robert Williams. But they might not be that big on Ayton or RW.

[MGB8]

Once again, I really don't understand why Newell isn't more highly considered on this board. He has the motor of CMB, the defensive mobility of Beringer, solid shooting form and more 3pt success than either. He has the foot speed and lateral quickness to guard on the perimeter and is probably the only player in this draft that can legit guard 1-5. He can switch anything.

I understand that he's not a freak in length, but he's got great footwork and speed. He's going to get a rebound with his motor. He's great at getting out on fast breaks and running the floor. My assumption is that he's our pick if he's there, and I won't be disappointed about it.

Watch on YouTube

I hadn’t looked at Newell in a while. Nice vid. What stands out to me is the easy verticality. Not quite as easy or fast as uber raw aberigner, but more developed.

Man, I’m jealous of Brooklyn with all there picks in this draft. 30 ish legit NBA players will come out of this draft, with over 30 prospects for that (cuz some will miss). Could be over 30. Not a top heavy draft like the Luka draft, but IMO a deeper than the Banchero draft (w/ Jovic at 27, Nembhard at 31), or even Cade/Ayo draft… comparable to the Zion draft (guys lasting to late 1st and 2nd including: Little, Jerome, Poole, K.Johnson, K.Porter, Gafford, Claxton, Bol Bol, THT, Cody Martin, Jalen (l for lesser) McDaniels).

Or the depth (if not top end talent) of the Luka draft, with late 1st and 2nd guys like: Anfernee Simons, Shamet, Robert Williams, Brunson (duh), Mitch Robinson, Trent, Devonte Graham, Vanderbilt, Bruce Brown, DeAnthony Melton, Shake Milton, Bonga, Ham Diallo, Svi, Kurucs).

Some of these guys left for Europe or are deep rotation guys… but all could play legitimately in the NBA. Not every draft gets you so many guys who at least belong.

[MGB8]

Portland just traded for Jrue Holiday. Does that effect who they might draft? For example, if KJ is available at 11 do they pass on him for a player at a different position?

Bah, I read that KJ just visited Portland and could def see them nabbing him. I wonder if, in an effort to get younger and less guard heavy, the Suns would be interested in a Grayson Allen for Pat Williams (along with 10 for 12) swap…. (of course, that would make the Bulls guard heavy, even discounting Jevon Carter).

[sco]

I am sticking with "just not Demin or Queen".

I don't see CMB being a fit in terms of our playing style.

I would be thrilled if somehow Kon or JK fell to us. Otherwise I want Coward, Essengue, and Bryant in that order. I wouldn't hate Newell, Sorber or Maluach.

[Red Larrivee]

I got your points, but I still don't see an elite trait from him. "not a weakness as much as it is improving further on an area of competence." Ok. Not elite. What's elite?

He does a lot of things really great. I get that. But he's also undersized. Who's the last 6"8" PF who did great things?

He's elite on defense. That's not even subjective. South Carolina was 8.2 points better with him defensively on the floor. That number is staggering.

If you watch any game, it's easy to see why it is that way. His defense is the sole reason South Carolina had any chance on that end to compete with teams. Opponents rim accuracy drops by nearly 8% when he's on the floor. Any crucial defensive stat you can think of, it improves significantly when CMB is in the lineup.

- He switches 1-4
- He guards 5 in small stretches
- He hedges pick and roll and recovers well to disrupt plays or force turnovers
- He's elite at giving multiple efforts on a possession.
- His help defense is great.
- His rim protection is elite.
- His closeouts are good.
- He forces turnovers in a number of ways.
- Low foul rate.

Most importantly, his overall BBIQ, feel for the game and reaction speed are insane. Those are foundational in making him play faster than what he actually appears to be on the court. Bulletproof? No, you've talked about how you've seen him get blown by before in limited views. And while that's true, it's not what happens on a regular basis.

Like I said, calling his defense "crafty" is such a big undersell on what he actually does on that end. He's an advanced, smart and elite defender by eye test and analytics.

I'm fine with drafting a number of players, but I think some are overthinking drafting one of the best two-way players in college basketball. His path to minutes and impact on this team is so glaring.

[MGB8]

I got your points, but I still don't see an elite trait from him. "not a weakness as much as it is improving further on an area of competence." Ok. Not elite. What's elite?

He does a lot of things really great. I get that. But he's also undersized. Who's the last 6"8" PF who did great things?

He's elite on defense. That's not even subjective. South Carolina was 8.2 points better with him defensively on the floor. That number is staggering.

If you watch any game, it's easy to see why it is that way. His defense is the sole reason South Carolina had any chance on that end to compete with teams. Opponents rim accuracy drops by nearly 8% when he's on the floor. Any crucial defensive stat you can think of, it improves significantly when CMB is in the lineup.

- He switches 1-4
- He guards 5 in small stretches
- He hedges pick and roll and recovers well to disrupt plays or force turnovers
- He's elite at giving multiple efforts on a possession.
- His help defense is great.
- His rim protection is elite.
- His closeouts are good.
- He forces turnovers in a number of ways.
- Low foul rate.

Most importantly, his overall BBIQ, feel for the game and reaction speed are insane. Those are foundational in making him play faster than what he actually appears to be on the court. Bulletproof? No, you've talked about how you've seen him get blown by before in limited views. And while that's true, it's not what happens on a regular basis.

Like I said, calling his defense "crafty" is such a big undersell on what he actually does on that end. He's an advanced, smart and elite defender by eye test and analytics.

I'm fine with drafting a number of players, but I think some are overthinking drafting one of the best two-way players in college basketball. His path to minutes and impact on this team is so glaring.

Q: where are you getting the +/- and def percentage numbers?

[Jcool0]

I got your points, but I still don't see an elite trait from him. "not a weakness as much as it is improving further on an area of competence." Ok. Not elite. What's elite?

He does a lot of things really great. I get that. But he's also undersized. Who's the last 6"8" PF who did great things?

He's elite on defense. That's not even subjective. South Carolina was 8.2 points better with him defensively on the floor. That number is staggering.

If you watch any game, it's easy to see why it is that way. His defense is the sole reason South Carolina had any chance on that end to compete with teams. Opponents rim accuracy drops by nearly 8% when he's on the floor. Any crucial defensive stat you can think of, it improves significantly when CMB is in the lineup.

- He switches 1-4
- He guards 5 in small stretches
- He hedges pick and roll and recovers well to disrupt plays or force turnovers
- He's elite at giving multiple efforts on a possession.
- His help defense is great.
- His rim protection is elite.
- His closeouts are good.
- He forces turnovers in a number of ways.
- Low foul rate.

Most importantly, his overall BBIQ, feel for the game and reaction speed are insane. Those are foundational in making him play faster than what he actually appears to be on the court. Bulletproof? No, you've talked about how you've seen him get blown by before in limited views. And while that's true, it's not what happens on a regular basis.

Like I said, calling his defense "crafty" is such a big undersell on what he actually does on that end. He's an advanced, smart and elite defender by eye test and analytics.

I'm fine with drafting a number of players, but I think some are overthinking drafting one of the best two-way players in college basketball. His path to minutes and impact on this team is so glaring.

Q: where are you getting the +/- and def percentage numbers?

[MGB8]

He's elite on defense. That's not even subjective. South Carolina was 8.2 points better with him defensively on the floor. That number is staggering.

If you watch any game, it's easy to see why it is that way. His defense is the sole reason South Carolina had any chance on that end to compete with teams. Opponents rim accuracy drops by nearly 8% when he's on the floor. Any crucial defensive stat you can think of, it improves significantly when CMB is in the lineup.

- He switches 1-4
- He guards 5 in small stretches
- He hedges pick and roll and recovers well to disrupt plays or force turnovers
- He's elite at giving multiple efforts on a possession.
- His help defense is great.
- His rim protection is elite.
- His closeouts are good.
- He forces turnovers in a number of ways.
- Low foul rate.

Most importantly, his overall BBIQ, feel for the game and reaction speed are insane. Those are foundational in making him play faster than what he actually appears to be on the court. Bulletproof? No, you've talked about how you've seen him get blown by before in limited views. And while that's true, it's not what happens on a regular basis.

Like I said, calling his defense "crafty" is such a big undersell on what he actually does on that end. He's an advanced, smart and elite defender by eye test and analytics.

I'm fine with drafting a number of players, but I think some are overthinking drafting one of the best two-way players in college basketball. His path to minutes and impact on this team is so glaring.

Q: where are you getting the +/- and def percentage numbers?

Thank you! Will browse that website to see where they get the numbers from.

[HomoSapien]

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Reflects better on Saraf if I am being honest.

[nomorezorro]

saraf is getting more minutes and is a less heralded prospect who didn't get a green room invite. both their choices make perfect sense

[Chi town]

saraf is getting more minutes and is a less heralded prospect who didn't get a green room invite. both their choices make perfect sense

You'd think he'd be comign over to get a workout with a higher selecting team to get selected and make more money.

Don't like the look. Rather he finish the series even if he isnt' playing much or putting up numbers. He's probably doing this to protect from falling int eh draft due to his last 3 games of barely playing and doing nothing.

[Chi town]

TRADE THE POR PICK for a later 1st.

Lots of teams with 2 1sts.

AK will probably trade it for his guy Drake.

[Jstock12]

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Reflects better on Saraf if I am being honest.

Agreed. My german mate is also in disbelief. Granted, Essengue's role has shrunk a lot and he isn't really a factor anymore in the playoffs once they started playing against a legit Euroleague team. But still, it's the freaking finals, and you're a part of the team. That team has fans. To them, this is no different than some guy from NBA Finals team, for example TJ McConnell, abandoning the Pacers to attend a Beyonce concert.

[DuckIII]

saraf is getting more minutes and is a less heralded prospect who didn't get a green room invite. both their choices make perfect sense

You'd think he'd be comign over to get a workout with a higher selecting team to get selected and make more money.

Don't like the look. Rather he finish the series even if he isnt' playing much or putting up numbers. He's probably doing this to protect from falling int eh draft due to his last 3 games of barely playing and doing nothing.

Come on man. I get the idea of going all the way with your team and putting that above yourself, but you are talking about a once in a lifetime dream experience. It would be "cool" of he didn't care like Joe Thomas and so stayed with his team, but this is certainly not something that reflects poorly on him as an individual or competitor. These are human beings with dreams.