The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 3

[sunsbg]

Real question. Is Grayson Allen an asset or will he be hard to trade? Will we get a good return or will we need to attach picks to get rid of him?

Top goal of this FO should be to start getting players they won't need to attach picks to get rid of as we are not OKC with a million picks. I hope there is a team willing to take a chance on recent league leader in 3PT %.

[Bogyo]

Read on Twitter

Honestly prefer the Rockets trade over that package.

Yeah I don't like Green much but prefer him over Gobert. At least ther's still some potential upside there. DDV>Brooks because he's a better shooter but I prefer Brooks size. As for Dilly/#17 or #10/Seconds; I prefer the more premium pick and I just don't like undersized guards

Repeat after me: THERE. IS. NO. UPSIDE. FOR. green
as much as you cant teach height, you cant teach anything if someone does not have a brain
acknowledge or learn it for yourself in the first 10 games of the season, not like i care

[lilfishi22]

Real question. Is Grayson Allen an asset or will he be hard to trade? Will we get a good return or will we need to attach picks to get rid of him?

I think he'll be hard to trade. It's not because he's super expensive or he doesn't bring value but just most teams are either kind of set at the 2 or the money is hard to match. I've had a glance as like 2 dozen teams who might be able to use him and matching salaries is tough.

I look at a team like Detroit who are on the up and up and they were 3rd last in the playoffs in 3PA/3P%. In the regular season they were 22nd in attempts and 17th in 3P%. They could certainly use a guy in Grayson who could bomb 3's at a good clip and still play defense, move the ball around etc. Is someone like Beef Stew available at around $15m? Duren is up for an extension I believe and I'm not sure what's going on with Paul Reed but he could probably give you about 80% of Stewarts production for maybe half the price?

What about the Grizzlies. They just moved Bane and I don't think they are keeping Kennard, that's 2 of their high output, high efficiency shooters gone. KCP is dog doodoo from 3 this past season and Cole Anthony has always been a below average shooter. Could they use a reliable 3PT shooter for Cole and filler?

[garrick]

Great trade for the Celtics I think they wanted a scorer to fill in for Tatum next season. Not sure what the Blazers are doing though other than to be a little better defensively.

Yeah it's a great move. Simons is also expiring in two seasons so that's getting off money that would still be owned to Jrue otherwise (at $37m)

What do the Blazers get from this deal?

It's not like Holiday is a great floor general and he doesn't really fit the timeline of the young Blazers roster since Holiday is going to be the elder statesman of the Blazers team filled with early 20 somethings.

[thamadkant]

Obviously Blazers sees the West 7 to 9 spots are up for grabs considering Kings and Suns have gone backwards. Balzers were just out of the 9th spot when Ayton got injured they lost almost every game afterwards. They are planning to be in the playoffs.

[mkot]

Portland trying to make the next step to see what they have.

As for the Celtics, can't believe they don't have to attach picks to "dump" Holiday. Just shows how crucial it is to have a GM that has relationships or respect around the league. Simon is the odd man out in Portland who has a surplus of SGs on their roster, he is 26 so he is who he is, and he shots 10 3s a game, he will fit right in.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I’ve experienced exactly ONE championship of my home teams once in my lifetime. The 2001 dbacks. I have very real doubts I will experience another championship from my home teams. The Phx Suns are the reason I even got into sports in the first place and my first sports love. I have very real doubts, I will get to witness them lift a trophy in my lifetime.

Yet other fans get to witness multiple trophies of their teams. Crap ain’t fair.

But but ... Mat said multiple championships are coming.

He meant for other teams! And that we could look to that as a standard to hope for comically as he seeks alignment.

[Frank Lee]

Lil Sparta is going to overthink this draft… it’s easy… draft that French PG at 10 and the big Creighton kid at 28.

Doubtful that happens. Odds are they will trade #10. No way they are done dabbling.

What the likihood of trading Brooks? Easier to move than Green* or Allen for that matter. Don’t care if he fits into the hard noser mode. He’s a SG, and last I checked……plus he has to be upset as hell going from a contender to this mess. You think he wants to spend the next 2+ yrs on a 30 win team? That testy attitude can work both ways.


*gotta like the spin lilSparta put on this immediately announcing they are keeping Green to play alongside Book…. after all options to move him were exhausted. Not fooling me mattyboy

[sunsbum]

Obviously Blazers sees the West 7 to 9 spots are up for grabs considering Kings and Suns have gone backwards. Balzers were just out of the 9th spot when Ayton got injured they lost almost every game afterwards. They are planning to be in the playoffs.

This was about scoots late season blossoming more than anything. Also they’ve wanted to dump Simon’s for a few years now. Don’t think it’s about playoffs.

[garrick]

Real question. Is Grayson Allen an asset or will he be hard to trade? Will we get a good return or will we need to attach picks to get rid of him?

I think he'll be hard to trade. It's not because he's super expensive or he doesn't bring value but just most teams are either kind of set at the 2 or the money is hard to match. I've had a glance as like 2 dozen teams who might be able to use him and matching salaries is tough.

I look at a team like Detroit who are on the up and up and they were 3rd last in the playoffs in 3PA/3P%. In the regular season they were 22nd in attempts and 17th in 3P%. They could certainly use a guy in Grayson who could bomb 3's at a good clip and still play defense, move the ball around etc. Is someone like Beef Stew available at around $15m? Duren is up for an extension I believe and I'm not sure what's going on with Paul Reed but he could probably give you about 80% of Stewarts production for maybe half the price?

What about the Grizzlies. They just moved Bane and I don't think they are keeping Kennard, that's 2 of their high output, high efficiency shooters gone. KCP is dog doodoo from 3 this past season and Cole Anthony has always been a below average shooter. Could they use a reliable 3PT shooter for Cole and filler?

I think Grayson did make into Bill Simmons top 10 list of current worst contracts or something on his podcast a few months back.

His actual value is around 10-14M but he'll be paid in his final year at 19M which is tough to swallow for a lot of teams given his ceiling which is not that high. He did play out of his mind in his contract year and predictably fell off this season after he got that fat paycheck.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/player/_/id/26987/grayson-allen

[KdoubleDees23]

Honestly prefer the Rockets trade over that package.

Yeah I don't like Green much but prefer him over Gobert. At least ther's still some potential upside there. DDV>Brooks because he's a better shooter but I prefer Brooks size. As for Dilly/#17 or #10/Seconds; I prefer the more premium pick and I just don't like undersized guards

Repeat after me: THERE. IS. NO. UPSIDE. FOR. green
as much as you cant teach height, you cant teach anything if someone does not have a brain
acknowledge or learn it for yourself in the first 10 games of the season, not like i care

How many games did you watch of Green? I bet you watched one game this whole season. Just let him play for us then judge. Quit crying its over now, lets see what other moves we make

[KdoubleDees23]

Obviously Blazers sees the West 7 to 9 spots are up for grabs considering Kings and Suns have gone backwards. Balzers were just out of the 9th spot when Ayton got injured they lost almost every game afterwards. They are planning to be in the playoffs.

Send Beal , O'Neale and 29 for Ayton + Find another team to bring us a filler as well . F it bring him back.

[handsome salary]

Portland trying to make the next step to see what they have.

As for the Celtics, can't believe they don't have to attach picks to "dump" Holiday. Just shows how crucial it is to have a GM that has relationships or respect around the league. Simon is the odd man out in Portland who has a surplus of SGs on their roster, he is 26 so he is who he is, and he shots 10 3s a game, he will fit right in.

When you spend month after month after month desperately telegraphing moves like "we need to get rid of Beal", "Ayton is a mistake" or "KD is on the block" other teams get out their knives to start carving. Throw in a brand new obnoxious/impulsive owner with the old guard and they really want blood.

It's not just the players competing in the league. I could see phone call after phone call between rival GMs laughing about how they made the Suns their toy.

Remember when Booker was the most punchable face in the league...he's got an owner to match.

[SkyBill40]

I can't believe - wait... yes I can - that people seriously want Beal's dead money on our cap for five more years rather than just letting him finish out his current deal. One move hurts us more than it helps, and we shouldn't have to argue about which one that is.

Look, I'm not saying I like Beal being here but it is what it is at this point and moving off of him is a worse proposition than having him stay. It's hugely unlikely he's taking a buy out. I mean.. why would he when he's openly said he likes it here?



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[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

10th pick for the 15th and 24th picks.

[BobbieL]

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10th pick for the 15th and 24th picks.

The Suns should think about doing it, you can get three young players -- or use 24 and 29 to trade back up-- they won't - but they should.

The Suns need young players and talent. So having three FRPs - or this year or leveraging more picks in the future - trading away 24 for a future first - is how you build a team

The Celtics/Blazers trade just made me sad. Sad because the Suns can't make those trades because of how Ishbia built the team

Even players like O'Neale and Allen - he had to overpay to bring them back since they were so far over the cap. Makes them harder to trade

And those reports about teams calling about Bradley Beal. They were calling to see HOW MUCH they can get from the Suns to take on that terrible contract.

[BobbieL]

I can't believe - wait... yes I can - that people seriously want Beal's dead money on our cap for five more years rather than just letting him finish out his current deal. One move hurts us more than it helps, and we shouldn't have to argue about which one that is.

Look, I'm not saying I like Beal being here but it is what it is at this point and moving off of him is a worse proposition than having him stay. It's hugely unlikely he's taking a buy out. I mean.. why would he when he's openly said he likes it here?



Sent from my SM-F936U using RealGM mobile app

I see moving on from Beal from the fans point of view, maybe not this board but twitter and podcasts like PHNX_SUNS for two reasons

1) they are Booker &/or Durant stans so its easier to blame Beal for everything than admit maybe Booker and KD were part of why the team won 36 games. And if Durant did indeed turn down trades - proves the point for many of us why I am least am glad he is gone.

2) its the Flex and Gambo breaking stories that if you stretch and waive Beal - you now have the MLE to "sign a player!!!" Wow - thats fun signing a player. But its more activity over accomplishment

[schnakenpopanz]

People talk a ling time for now that Drafting Ayton over Doncic was the mistake. However Drafting Ayton over SGA might be the bigger meistake long term. He would have fit so much better with Booker.
SGA/Booker/Mikal would have been a dynasty

[KdoubleDees23]

People talk a ling time for now that Drafting Ayton over Doncic was the mistake. However Drafting Ayton over SGA might be the bigger meistake long term. He would have fit so much better with Booker.
SGA/Booker/Mikal would have been a dynasty

Well when GMs don’t have patience , this is what happens

Also when GMs don’t have a Time Machine, this is what happens

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

If I'm looking to trade Allen,  then I'm looking at trading him to one of 4 teams: 

1- Memphis
Allen/ Richards/ CLE 29' 1st/ BOS 32' 2nd for KCP/ Huff/ 16th pick.  Allen, would replace Bane whom they gave up! Has played for Memphis a few years back, is a much better shooter/ floor spacer /scorer than KCP, and is on a cheaper salary annually than KCP. 


Richards is a solid more established rotation level backup center option for them than Huff to backup Edey, And is on a cheap expiring contract.  And they get a future 1st and a premium 2nd to add to their haul of picks from Orlando,  for the 16th pick.  


For us, we'd get KCP who's on a large expiring contract after next season (the same time as Beal expires). We'd also get Jay Huff, a young, verybkong 7'1 very mobile 3 & D center that fits what Ott is trying to do here. And the prize for us would be the 16th pick. 


With that pick,  we can now add a 2nd premium young cost controlled talent to whomever we draft at 10! Strengthening our roster core positionally while upgrading talent and athleticism and also creating more cap flexibility.  


2- Utah
Allen/ CLE 29' 1st for K Mart Jr/ Svi Mikhaliuk/ Micah Potter (two-way big)/ 21st pick.  
** Allen has played for the Jazz in the past, was a fan favorite, and gives Utah a legitimate solid floor spacing SG that's reliable and familiar with their franchise.

Ainge also gets a future 1st for his pick fix. K Mart is a strong, quick, uber athletic, fast defensive wing/ forward that fits what Ott is trying to do rather ideally and on a 7 million expiring contract.

Mikhaliuk is a cheap shooting specialist on a low contract (filler)/ Potter is a 6'10 physical 3 & D power forward/ center very much in the Maxi Kleber archetype that'd give us size, frontcourt physicality and floor spacing ability.
The prize for us is the 21st pick that'll allow us to add a 2nd high end cost controlled talent to whomever we draft at 10.


3- Charlotte
Allen/ CLE 29' 1st/ BOS 32' 2nd for Okogie/ Williams/ 33rd pick.  
** Allen would give Charlotte a legitimate quality high IQ floor spacing wing that is a strong floor spacing SG. And because the Hornets have a really difficult time even attracting any quality players there, this is a very solid trade for them.

We're also taking back Okogie for salary matching to help them maintain their cap space while reducing the redundancy between him and Josh Green. And for Mark Williams, they're getting a future 1st, a premium future 2nd and a high level rotation player/ floor spacer in Allen.

For us, we're getting a very solid fringe starting caliber, although very injury prone long center in Mark Williams who would either give us another asset that can be moved later, or would allow us to move Richards in a package with O'neale and Martin (Perhaps to Washington for Smart/ 40th pick or future 2nds)??

We'd also be getting back Okogie on a 7 million expiring contract for cap reduction. And the 33rd pick (early 2nd) so we can target Thiero or Kalkbrenner. Then we could consolidate our 2nds easier into future assets?

4- Milwaukee
Allen/ CLE 29' 1st/ BOS 32' 2nd for Connaughton (9 million expiring)/ Tyler Smith Jr/ 47th pick.  

Allen has played for the Bucks before, they need all the depth pieces they could get to tryband be competitive and convince Giannis to stay! Allen is great there playing off if Giannis too. And for us, we'd be getting Connaughtons' 9 million expiring contract for cap reduction.

We'd also be getting Tyler Smith Jr who is a 6'11 very mobile, smooth young floor spacing big 4/5 in the mold/ archetype of Jabari Smith Jr (except just jot as strong yet defensively). Lastly, we get the 47th pick to target another quality young cost controlled prospect to add to our core.

But the centerpiece value for us here is Tyler Smith Jr AND getting 9 million in cap reduction from Comnaughtons' expiring contract giving us cap flexibility as soon as next summer.